Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

The NH gun-toting protester is no terrorist. Sorry

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
Becky72 Donating Member (457 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 04:23 PM
Original message
The NH gun-toting protester is no terrorist. Sorry
I am from New York City. In my city, we don't like people walking around with guns. Anywhere. I share that view. Other states in all likelihood think different than us, for whatever reasons.

In New Hampshire, for example, legislators have created laws that allow people to carry unconcealed guns in private properties such as a church.

William Kostric was in the premises of a church while carrying that weapon, if we are to believe the New Hampshire police. http://www.stltoday.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=650980

If anyone spotted this man in a place other than the church or any other permitted private place, then it's another story.

If William Krostic is a terrorist, then New Hampshire is a terrorist state for allowing this "terror."

Some say that the police should arrest this man anyway. But if they do, they will be sued.

Police says the man was nowhere near the place Obama would be, and the man was in constant police surveillance. I believe we should pressure New Hampshire to change its laws instead of alienating law-abiding citizen
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yet.
n.t.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #1
57. +1
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PretzelWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
2. these were people gathered for protest near presidential town hall. that is B.S.
when he pairs the gun with the location of a public town hall area AND has a sign that alludes to toppling government through violence, then I think most people should have a problem with it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
damntexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #2
49. And it's an indictment of NH gun laws.
I'm sorry, but he IS a terrorist; and the state would allow him to perpetrate a terrorist act and only charge him after he had done so.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Window Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #2
67. He's a fucking show-off and attention whore. Ok, it's legal in NH to open carry, fine. I
think his sign bothered me more than anything.

"...THE TREE OF LIBERTY MUST BE REFRESHED FROM TIME TO TIME WITH THE BLOOD OF PATRIOTS AND TYRANTS." Thomas Jefferson


Asshole's sign:

IT IS TIME TO WATER THE TREE OF LIBERTY. WTF!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bighart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #2
98. exactly how close is "near presidential town hall"?
That is the one thing I have not seen details on. How close was he, how close did the motorcade pass?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Drunken Irishman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
3. Oh please. Bullshit argument.
Firstly, all rights cease the second the POTUS walks through the door.

Obama could be speaking at a public park and every right that goes along with it being a public place go out the window.

This guy should have known better. The Leader of the Free World is standing in a building in distance and he's walking around with a gun?

Visible?

Why?

To threaten, most likely.

Maybe he isn't a terrorist, but that doesn't condone his stupidity.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
damntexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #3
50. The only good thing about it is that it's visible, not concealed.
At least the Secret Service snipers know where to aim and keep aiming.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LooseWilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #3
73. All rights cease the second the POTUS walks through the door?
Does that mean that secret service agents, if they feel like it, can go ahead and start robbing people at gunpoint? Without rights against search and seizure... why not? Without a right to due process, what're ya gonna do about it?

Gun nuts might be gun nuts... but the notion of forfeiting your rights if the President comes into the building is crazy talk.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JayMusgrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-12-09 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #73
84. I'm sure Gerry Ford, Ronald Reagan, and JFK would
agree with you.... anybody has a right to hold a gun when in the presence of our President


YEAH SURE!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LooseWilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-12-09 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #84
85. They have the rights given them in the Constitution, whether the President is in the room or not.
In as far as the venue within which the President is present (whether it be considerations of the building, city, or state) has laws restricting the possession of a firearm, those legal restrictions pertain equally when the President is present, or not present. More efforts are expended to guarantee that the rules of the geographical location are not violated when the President is present... but the rules do not actually change (unless the owners of private property elect to change them, which is again a right).

If it is legal to carry a gun on the property of a Church... then it is legal to carry a gun on the property of a Church. The Constitution grants the right to equal protection under the law... so, if it is legal to carry a gun on the property of a Church... then the dumbass in question has the right to carry a gun on the property of a Church.

Fear and hysteria are no help in securing the person of the President. And, in any case, I don't think citizens of the country should be willing to give up their rights in the face of the holder of an office.

If NH allows open carrying of a firearm... I will presume that they also are experienced in handling situations in which... people carry firearms. If it's that big of a deal to you... to curb the rights of citizens for the peace of mind of Gerry Ford, Ronald Reagan, and JFK (who are all obviously dead, and probably pretty peaceful of mind)... then get to work changing the open carry laws in NH. I think there are also some rather "liberal" conceal carry laws in AZ you might want to have an aneurysm over too.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JayMusgrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-12-09 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #85
86. People who tell women not to have abortions sound just like you...inflexible
Edited on Wed Aug-12-09 07:42 PM by JayMusgrove
without logic, and full of the desire to control others by brandishing your opinions and not allowing others to have their own.

I think people who belong here at the DU need to try to understand that 2 Presidents in my lifetime have been injured, one killed, while you cling forever to your desire to control others to give yourself unbounded freedoms to hold a gun in the presence of a President.

I'm very sorry your logic circuits failed you but I know of no medication nor surgical procedure that can restore them.

Perhaps you can try not posting, and pray for a cure.

Here's proof from your own post that your logic circuits have failed.

Your statement.
"I don't think citizens of the country should be willing to give up their rights in the face of the holder of an office."

Next thing you will be arguing for is your right to carry a gun on an airplane. You really seem to have lost any sense and ability to use your mind, all in the effort to protect your rights to show and to use metal penis anywhere.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LooseWilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #86
92. I'll have you know I am so flexible that I can touch my toes without bending my knees!!
WTF are you on about? I am not "full of the desire to control others by brandishing your opinions and not allowing others to have their own"... I am admitting of the right of others to behave in any manner that the law allows. "not allowing others to have their own"?... the mind numbing gibberish-icity of that, in the context of what I posted... is... mind numbing...

"... while you cling forever to your desire to control others to give yourself unbounded freedoms to hold a gun in the presence of a President." ... Dude, are you using internet provided software to translate your posts for you? I won't deny that it would be fun to hold a gun in the presence of a President... but "control others...", "unbounded freedoms to..." ? WTF are you talking about? I've never expressed a desire to hold a gun in the presence of the President (aside from above). I have simply said that people in places where it is legal to carry a gun, can carry a gun even if the President is nearby. If I was so gun crazy, maybe I'd be in NH or AZ now... here in CA, no carry permits. I can live with that. In as much as others here carry illegally... if I feel the need, I too can carry illegally. In the meantime... I can make due without.

Carry a gun on an airplane? I understand the physics of a pressurized cabin. I'm really not a fan of guns on a plane.. a knife maybe... but I'm no good with a knife... so I don't really care. Lost any sense/ability to use my mind?... "rights to show and use metal penis anywhere"?... Wow, dude... that's so incredibly Dada... but, to be honest, I'd rather fight for the right to show and use my flesh penis anywhere.... if you look at my username, you might infer support of this inclination.

Your hysteria and absurdity are very aesthetically pleasing, however... please keep up the good work. ;)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Suzanne13 Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 01:28 AM
Response to Reply #84
101. Remembering the Squeaky Fromme incident
Just a few days ago, Manson cultie Squeaky Fromme was released after serving a long prison sentence for the attempted assassination of President Gerald Ford. And Squeaky had purposedly ejected the cartridge from her .45's firing chamber before joining the crowd around the president. Still, she got busted, and busted good, for what she called "waving the gun to make a point."

Now we have gun-toting protesters in New Hampshire and Arizona, one of the latter carrying a semiautomatic rifle "just because I can." This is 2nd Amendment craziness out of control, and states and municipalities need to tighten up their laws ASAP so we won't have another assassination.

I'm a pacifist who wouldn't touch a gun for a million dollars. Reasoning, followed by a quick martial arts move if necessary, have always done the job for me. I respect the rights of those who believe they must keep a firearm at home to protect their families, but packing heat in crowds to prove a point is insane.

All it takes is one unbalanced person and one quick shot to turn a political debate into a tragedy. I don't care whether you call these intimidators with weapons terrorists or teddy bears. We need laws to limit their displays of firearms and attitude, right away!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-12-09 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #3
88. Umm, no.
"Firstly, all rights cease the second the POTUS walks through the door.

Obama could be speaking at a public park and every right that goes along with it being a public place go out the window."


Please cite support for that that from the U.S. Constitution or U.S. legal Code.

This nation is not based on the premise that "some pigs is more equal than other pigs".

Your statement is part of the problem with this nation.

We are not supposed to base our laws on "Well, I don't like it, even if s/he did nothing illegal or harmful to others". This is the reasoning the Bush-ites used repeatedly, and was basically the justification for the Patriot Act.

Our side is supposed to be better than that.

This person was exercising TWO Civil Rights AT THE SAME TIME! OH NOES!!!!1!1! (Well, four or five actually. But hey, who's counting.)


"The Leader of the Free World is standing in a building in distance and he's walking around with a gun?"

What is the Bright Line distance that magically make the President safe? 10 Feet? 100 Feet? 100 yards? 1 mile? 10 miles?



"Visible?"

Perfectly legal as long as he is not making threats. And it is settled case law that the presence of a legally carried firearm is not, in and of itself, a threatening act.



Let's NOT use the Republican talking points, Aa-yup?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
countingbluecars Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
4. Ok, then he is an ignorant,
racist redneck.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
5. True enough, and the usual hysterics here are once again over the top about this trivial incident.
Nevertheless, it was a disturbing situation when the story was first breaking.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Drunken Irishman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Thank you!
You're spot on! Why would anyone get worked up over a guy standing outside a building that is currently housing a president - who has had more death threats than any president in modern American history - with a gun?

Idiots.

:eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. Case. In. Point. n/t.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Drunken Irishman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Yeah!
We're just so overreacting nuts over here!

Who cares if a guy is parading around with a gun outside a building where Pres. Obama is speaking?

He's normal! He's sane! He's not gonna do anything!

Then BAM

And then what? We're still overreacting?


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. You need to read better. Or slower. Or just learn to read. n/t.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Drunken Irishman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. You call it a trivial story.
That was disturbing.

You're not making much sense, bud.

It's trivial, but you find it disturbing?

Why? I find it more than disturbing. I look at is as an open threat to the President's life and there is nothing trivial about that.

When Obama gets tons of death threats a week, we're not talking trivial anymore.

In the context of everything, this is just one more case pointing toward violence.

That isn't trivial. You're right, though, it is disturbing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. Because it became a trivial story the second nothing happened. Keep those smelling salts handy,
Edited on Tue Aug-11-09 04:41 PM by apocalypsehow
though. There will be something else for you to have the vapors about of a similar trivial nature, I'm sure.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Drunken Irishman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. Because nothing happened, it's trivial?
It's indicative of a wider story here.

For months, we have seen this festering and now it's gone one step further. Someone has actually brought a gun to where the president was speaking.

That's a big story.

Just because nothing came of it doesn't mean it's not important and shouldn't be discussed.

I'm sorry you don't take the life of the president seriously.

I do.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. Now we jump to the predictable putting words in other people's mouths. Scarlett O'Hara, phone home.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Drunken Irishman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. You called it trivial. Not I.
You said it was essentially a dead issue.

I don't think bringing a gun to the president's town hall IS a dead issue.

Especially in the context of all the hate we've seen over the last few months.

Something IS going on out there and it'd be ignorant and foolish of us to turn our backs to it because we think it's trivial.

That's why I said what I said.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. Nothing. Happened. No one was arrested. Some asshat got facey-facey time with Tweety. And you are
having a melt-down on a discussion board.

And while we're on the subject, you know precisely what I was referring to: because I think this matter is trivial does not mean I'm not concerned about the safety of POTUS, as you blithely implied above.

Please try again.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. Some people have so much fun just making shit up, and typing reams and reams of silly HS. n/t.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Drunken Irishman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. It doesn't MATTER if nothing happened.
That is not the point.

Are you that dense you don't see something forming here? How many people have threatened Obama's life? How many people are calling him a terrorist and un-American and a socialist and a Marxist? How many people are foaming at the mouth when they go to these rallies?

None of them have been arrested. Nothing happened. It does not fucking mean it's not a problem.

These people are FUCKING NUTS! They want Obama dead! They want Obama out of the picture.

This is a warning sign.

Figure it out.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. Yes it does matter - for the purposes of arresting an individual or labeling him a "terrorist."
Or did you even bother to read the OP before working those precious little fingers to the bone on this thread?

:shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. And the predictability continues: from putting words in people's mouths to ad hominem right quickly.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Drunken Irishman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. I never demanded he be arrested.
I think these people are acting like terrorists, however.

Tim McVeigh was still a terrorist before he blew up the Oklahoma City Federal Building.

It's the mindset that scares the fuck out of me. It's the thought that this guy woke up in the morning and said, "hey, I'm going to show off my gun at a rally where the president is speaking..."

Really, it's that mindset that leads me to believe we have a huge problem and it's important to not gloss over.

And this issue isn't certainly trivial.

Just because he wasn't arrested doesn't mean there isn't a wider issue here that shouldn't be discussed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. And I never said it shouldn't be discussed, so I guess we're even. n/t.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Drunken Irishman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #46
63. You said it was trivial.
I don't think bringing a gun to a protest outside a president's townhall is trivial.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-12-09 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #45
89. Jesus Christ on a pogo stick!
STOP using the Republican talking points!!


Terra! Terra! Terra!

You, and the people like you, do a very bad parrot impression.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Strong Atheist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #89
93. Welcome to DU!



:toast:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #26
52. Did it occur to your tiny little freeper peabrain that maybe the reason
"nothing happened" is only because of an extremely alert and vigilant citizenry and highly skilled security?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-12-09 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #52
90. Or maybe because...
Law-abiding people can be trusted to exercise 4 or 5 Civil Rights AT THE SAME TIME without tripping over their own feet?

Even if their political beliefs are different than yours?!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #5
19. Well you just succeeded in stooping to his level
That's difficult to do outside of the gungeon. Congratulations.

"Trivial incident" my fucking ass. :mad:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. Because posting an opinion on DU is JUST LIKE standing outside a townhall with a gun, right?
Right?

:eyes:

Get a grip - nothing happened, for fuck's sake, and the dude is being interviewed on television as we speak. Apparently the SS disagrees with your hysterical interpretation of the quite trivial event.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. No, that's not what I said, at all.
I don't want ANY guns anywhere near the President, R or D.

That said, I'm 100% sure the SS didn't consider a crazy man with a gun at a Presidential town hall a "trivial incident". Where are you getting this bullshit?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #27
34. But that's precisely what you typed, so I guess you write all your posts in code. "Bullshit," indeed
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #34
47. Nope, my post pointed out that you're defending a gun nut's serious threat
Not that you're threatening the President by posting an opinion on DU.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #5
51. If you don't like our "usual hysterics" here, you are free to leave.
I'm sure you'll be happier elsewhere. You sure don't seem to give a good goddamn about the BLATANT threat to Obama's life that this man was making.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LisaM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
7. If I saw a person with a gun in a public place, legal or not
I would be too afraid to stick around - because if the guy even made a move towards his gun, the Secret Service would have opened fire. That's what terrorism is - it makes you afraid to go about your daily life.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CJCRANE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
8. What if he had tried that near one of Bush's townhalls?
:shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
9. no... he just like's to carry a gun with him to sell girl scout cookies
to me, people who carry are scared and feel the need to intimidate others. Really shows how terrified he is actually. Maybe it's time for him to live in a bubble.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
10. I think he wanted to make a statement that would scare people.
He knew what message he was sending with his "Tree of Liberty" sign (the same quote that was on Timothy Mc Veigh's t-shirt in his mugshot) and his visible firearm.

So far, he has not broken any New Hampshire laws per se, but I do believe his intent to intimidate was clear.

He definitely could very well be a loose cannon, though, and I think it was wise for authorities to keep an eye on him. And that's what he wanted. He wanted to be noticed, and he wanted to be feared.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
high density Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
12. Sorry but bringing a gun to a political rally isn't normal whether it's NYC or New Hampshire
This isn't "different" thinking, it is crazy nutjob thinking.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JayMusgrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
13. Good luck with getting NH, the state with "live free of die" on their
Edited on Tue Aug-11-09 04:31 PM by JayMusgrove
license plates to change the law. Good luck with getting NH legislators to listen to someone from NYC about guns.

With about a million people total population, not counting tourists for skiing in winter, or lakes and beaches in summer, how many murders take place in NH each year. With over 8 million people in NYC, and surrounding areas, I bet NYC has 30 times the number of murders.

I think the guy in NH has a few screws loose, when he was interviewed on Chris Matthews, he made little sense.
People like that worry me, they are not logical, they don't know history, and they wear their gun as their identity.

So don't get me wrong, but he's "free" to carry his gun, and yet he's not happy, and why is he even bothering to show up for Obama, just to get attention? Hello, how many murderers kill for "attention" and recognition?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Justitia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
15. He was openly carrying a weapon to intimidate, at a political event. That's terrorism.
Or do you not understand the definition?

If I would have openly carried a firearm HERE IN TX at a Bush event, my ass would be in Gitmo overnight.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OneTenthofOnePercent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #15
25. Open carry in TX is illegal for the average joe.
Edited on Tue Aug-11-09 04:39 PM by OneTenthofOnePercent
People with concealed carry permits in TX are not even allowed to let thier guns "print" through thier clothing, much less carry it so it can be seen in plain sight.
Your example is stupid.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Justitia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. Which is exactly what I said. Do you have reading comprehension problems?
As a gun owner in TX, I am VERY familiar w/the law.

My point was that even in gun-happy TX, this bullshit would not be tolerated.

And wisely, guns are NOT allowed at political events in TX or gov't mtgs - open carry or not.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-12-09 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #30
91. Well, they are allowed at those places...
in other states and I haven't seen any mayhem yet.

The only hysteria seems to be... ummm... here. And the Daily Kos.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mrs. Overall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #91
96. Saying that DU and Daily Kos are suffering from hysteria--
enjoy your stay.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #15
41. Thanks for shooting down the OP's
"apology" for the vile terrorist in Portsmouth, NH.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Becky72 Donating Member (457 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #41
62. He was in a church
Private place. Legal to carry a weapon unconcealed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #62
70. I don't care how "legal" the fucker
Edited on Tue Aug-11-09 06:59 PM by Cha
was..he's still a nimrod terrorist.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Becky72 Donating Member (457 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #70
77. But that's a contradiction. Isn't terrorism illegal in this country?
As far as I know, it is.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mrs. Overall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #62
97. Boy, you are defending this gun totin' guy on every fucking thread, aren't you.
Interesting...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
17. Bull pucky!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fugop Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
18. guns at these rallies
I'm not so worried about Obama, as I'm sure his Secret Service guys/women will take care of him. But I worry it's a matter of time before a couple people get into a shouting match and someone takes it to the next level. Or some guy who ISN'T just "exercising his rights" shows up and opens fire. How do you know which is the next Holocaust museum shooter? You don't. The rallies are scary enough these days with just the shoving and screaming. The guns bring it to a whole new level of scary.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bluedeminredstate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
20. Chris Matthews chewed his ass!
He was berating him for having the gun in light of this nation's history of presidential assasinations and then asked him why he had "a goddamn gun."
Tweety got himself good and worked up. He thinks it's all about race. He even remarked to Ed Rendell on one townhall commenter from Pennsyvania that she was - and I paraphrase here b/c I don't recall his exact words- full of wrong information. He basically called her a moron in nicer language. Tweety's been on fire the first half of his show.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
One_Life_To_Give Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
21. Must have been outside SS Security zone
I don't think the Secret Service takes chances with such things. POTUS was never in danger. They would have cancelled his appearance if there was any doubt. FYI The neighboring state, VT conciders a Drivers Licence as VT Drivers Licence as a Permit to Carry Concealed.

What is the practicle difference between his standing in protest with a holstered weapon and April 19th, 1775, Lexington MA and the minutemen standing on the Green.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Political Tiger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 04:37 PM
Response to Original message
24. He wore a gun for one reason only: INTIMIDATION.
That's the whole purpose of terrorism, to scare, to intimidate people. He was sending a message with that gun, and it wasn't "have a nice day!"




Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #24
29. Exactly.... There ARE other rights besides the right to own a friggin
gun... I think the right for us to protect our President ranks among them.

I am so damned tired of gun ownership being the ultimate right above all else--even when it is used to intimidate others from participating in the democratic process.

Fine, he skirted any legal lines. The SS and police apparently acknowledge that. But, we don't need to glorify this kind of behavior--even those among us who love guns above all else.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #24
33. Absolutely - though he'd probably say he was ensuring his liberty. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
32. Wish a more progressive state would have been chosen for the event. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Drunken Irishman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #32
36. Not me. Obama shouldn't back down to these nutjobs.
Go right into the belly of the beast.

I'd love to see him hit up other conservative states.

How 'bout Idaho or Wyoming next? Utah?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. I'm sick of throwbacks stealing the show - let's see some thinking patriots! nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JayMusgrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #32
55. I'm sorry, I cannot agree that NH is "less progressive".... than what?
Than California?

Does California allow gay marriage?
Does California balance their budget?

Than Massachusetts or Vermont?

In Vermont, Obama would have had a love fest!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In Mass, Obama would have had a few more nutjobs show up, but he also would have had about 3 million people wanting him to do it at Fenway Park, home of the Red Sox, where Gene McCarthy filled the stadium in 1968,

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. After the last two weeks, a love fest works for me! nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JayMusgrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-12-09 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #56
83. I am always in a love fest with the Obama family, and I have never
even met one of them.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hileeopnyn8d Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
44. Really?
Your link is to a thread on the stltoday forum? Seriously?

With the exception of a handful of posters over there, I see that as the equivalent of posting a thread from Freeperville to back up your point. Especially the Current Affairs section. I'm not even sure why you posted that link, was there something in the 8 pages that was noteworthy?

Admittedly, I didn't bother reading it, I stopped reading/participating in that forum (which is local for me) years ago due to the nasty unapologetic racists that post there.




Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
48. He IS a terrorist for his sign threatening bloodshed. But I think you knew that.
Go ahead and be an apologist for his sorry ass. And enjoy your stay.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Becky72 Donating Member (457 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #48
71. But why hasn't the FBI detained him?
If his actions amounted to terrorism?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ksoze Donating Member (635 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
53. hardball link:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KingFlorez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
54. I'm sorry, I disagree
Regardless of what the law is, anyone who wants to carry a gun anywhere near where the President is has some terrorist tendencies. Why on earth do you need a gun to protest? To me it's like saying "You do what I want or you'll pay."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
burning rain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
58. It appears you're right: not a terrorist, just an advocate for terrorism.
I certainly hope a government agent had him in the crosshairs of a telescopic sight the whole time he was there, in case he went for his gun. Toting a gun at a political rally while brandishing a sign with that Jefferson quote... it's clear he's suggesting assassination. Traitorous, unAmerican dog.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spooky3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
59. if you can't take a gun onto a plane or into a federal building
why is it allowable at a rally where a federal official is speaking?

The point is that state laws shouldn't trump safety and security needs, and the feds. have no problem restricting this where appropriate. They should do so here, particularly given the many warnings we have about nutjobs and their hate for Obama, at least one of whom may be carrying a gun or other weapon.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JayMusgrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #59
64. I like your point! Very good one!
I think we can pass a law federally that would take over for maybe 5000 feet from the POTUS or other federal official, unless authorized to carry one, (police, etc.)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spooky3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #64
74. Thanks you. Good idea. I worry that we are not paying enough
attention to the warnings we are getting. So often top officials ignore these warnings. I hope something will be done.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JayMusgrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-12-09 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #74
82. I'm glad you replied. I am worried as much now as before the
election about the health and safety of our current first family.

There are just too many nutcases, idiots, and gun owners out there who are all three.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JoePhilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
60. The intent was intimidation. Let's not be confused.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RagAss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 06:05 PM
Response to Original message
61. You do understand that if this man sneezed..or convulsed after pulling a leg muscle...he was dead...
Just in time for the six o'clock news !
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JayMusgrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #61
65. Oh the fantasies.! LOL
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
66. I have a nagging feeling that this is all going to end up very badly....
Likely with police and/or public officials being shot- along with bystanders.

According to some- a "fair" price to pay for Americans' gun obsessions...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
68. What do you think the Secret Service would have done if it had been President Bush?
This jerk would have been disarmed and taken away!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
69. Yeah, I mean it's not like he told Dick Cheney to fuck himself or something.
Because then he'd be arrested.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mudplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
72. Bullshit
The point of the gun wasn't self-defense, it was intimidation.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Becky72 Donating Member (457 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #72
76. Intimidation is not terrorism
Edited on Tue Aug-11-09 08:18 PM by Becky72
The FBI defines terrorism as ""the unlawful use of force or violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a Government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives.""

Keyword: Unlawful. Carrying weapons in the open is legal in NH.

http://denver.fbi.gov/nfip.htm
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mudplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #76
79. Not just a terrorist, but a stupid asshole as well
fuck the fbi's definitions
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
yourguide Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
75. No, he just has Randy Weaver as a hero on his MySpace page....so he's not a terrorist...yet
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 08:21 PM
Response to Original message
78. When you take a shot in basketball, you'll at the very least need a
Edited on Tue Aug-11-09 08:23 PM by saltpoint
ball and a basket.

Hence the name.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Phx_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 08:45 PM
Response to Original message
80. Well Daily Kos did a little research on the guy, and he's scary. A ranting free-stater.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
quakerboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
81. So a few questions
If I am at a church in New Hampshire, and I so choose, can I demand the money someone in the pew next to me, while making sure that I have a gun pointedly displayed at my side?

In New Hampshire, if I so chose, can I buy property next to an abortion clinic, if there are any in the state, Donate it to a church, put up a tent, and Then hold big signs saying abortion doctors are murderers and should be "taken care of" while also pointedly displaying a gun on my hip to any Dr or patient that might wish to enter?

I understand the right to have, and even carry weapons. I may not agree with that, but it is what it is. But when comes the point that a right to have a weapon moves into a clear violation of someone else's constitutional rights?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-12-09 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
87. I live right over the NH border..
go shopping there once every 10 days or so. I've never seen one person with a gun strapped to them. I think the next time I need some milk, I may pack some heat though. I don't like the looks of the deli guy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
94. Anyone who brings a weapon to an event to try to intimidate people
is very much a terrorist, whether what he was doing is legal or not.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OwnedByFerrets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
95. Any act that is done as intimidation to a person or party can
be construed as "terrorism". This person was doing this act to make a point. That point was CLEAR. Yes, it can be construed as terrorism.
Terrorism: "Terrorism is the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion. At present, there is no internationally agreed definition of terrorism. Common definitions of terrorism refer only to those acts which are intended to create fear (terror), are perpetrated for an ideological goal (as opposed to a lone attack), and deliberately target or disregard the safety of non-combatants."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
csziggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
99. He moved to New Hampshire as part of a movement and because of the gun laws
He and his cronies choose New Hampshire to effectively take over a state and bend its politics in their choice of direction.

"I will move to New Hampshire by 12/31/2008 where I will work to bring about a society in which governments maximum role is protecting life, liberty, and property but only if 999 other liberty minded individuals will do the same." Ian Bernard, Free State Project participant

Deadline to sign up by: 31st December 2006
1,030 people signed up

<SNIP>

More details
I am a participant in the Free State Project, www.freestateproject.org, which has the goal of getting 20,000 people to agree to move to New Hampshire where they will work to bring about a society in which governments maximum role is protecting life, liberty, and property. However, I dont want to wait for 20,000 to agree to move before relocating. I want to move now. I am calling on liberty lovers everywhere to move with me, to be a pioneer for freedom, to be a beacon of liberty in the Free State. Together we can bring about a state with increased liberties and reduced government. Join me!

More: http://www.pledgebank.com/First1000?showall=1


What is the Free State Project?
The Free State Project is an agreement among 20,000 pro-liberty activists to move to New Hampshire, where they will exert the fullest practical effort toward the creation of a society in which the maximum role of government is the protection of life, liberty, and property. The success of the Project would likely entail reductions in taxation and regulation, reforms at all levels of government, to expand individual rights and free markets, and a restoration of constitutional federalism, demonstrating the benefits of liberty to the rest of the nation and the world.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
City Lights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
100. It wasn't the gun. It was the gun with the sign. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sat Feb 24th 2024, 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC