GO GET'em, Dem. traitors....

[fadedrose]

Here is a list of 8 Dem Senators who are NOT supporting the President's Health Bill. Astonishing how much they are receiving from insurance companies (read on). DFA wants to put ads in those senators' states to bolster support amoung the voters. I'm throwing in another $10 bucks to put ads in Mass - John Kerry is my target. Damn, I voted for him and now I want my vote back. Pick your favorite, you don't have to contribute.

http://vote.wewantthepublicoption.com/p-dfa-fe2


Copy of email I received today from DFA (H. Dean's group)

"We need your help with an important decision.

Democracy for America has teamed up with the Progressive Change Campaign Committee to run tough ads pressuring Democratic Senators who've taken millions of dollars from health and insurance interests while standing in the way of one of President Obama's top priorities -- a public healthcare option.

The question is: who do you want to see us pressure first with TV ads in their home state?

CLICK HERE TO SEE THE AD AND CAST YOUR VOTE
http://vote.wewantthepublicoption.com/p-dfa-fe2

Our ads don't pull any punches, because it's up to us to make sure Democratic elected officials feel some heat if they're on the verge of opposing the President and 76% of Americans who want a public option.

Here are eight senators who may stand in the way of the public option -- along with the total amount of money they’ve received from health and insurance interests. Who should we target first with local ads?

Sen. Max Baucus $3,973,485
Sen. Evan Bayh $1,565,088
Sen. Kent Conrad $2,154,200
Sen. Dianne Feinstein $1,749,887
Sen. John Kerry $8,994,077
Sen. Mary Landrieu $1,653,943
Sen. Joe Lieberman $3,308,621
Sen. Ben Nelson $2,214,715


CAST YOUR VOTE NOW

Thank you for everything you do,

-Charles"

Charles Chamberlain, Political Director
Democracy for America

P.S. Thousands of people have signed their name to be featured as one of the 76% who want a public option in the national version of these ads already running in Washington D.C. If you haven't signed up yet, there’s still time to add your name.

Democracy for America relies on you and the people-power of more than one million members to fund the grassroots organizing and training that delivers progressive change on the issues that matter. Please Contribute Today and support our mission.
Paid for by Democracy for America, http://democracyforamerica.com/ and not authorized by any candidate"

[Thrill]

1. Olympia Snowne has more sense than these morons

We're looking at reconciliation.

[backscatter712]

56. Olympia Snowe has shown tentative support for the public option!

http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_treatment/archive/2009/07/20/some-good-news-from-olympia-snowe.aspx

That's right, Snowe just came out in favor of the public option - "I believe that the reforms we are creating will result in more competitive, affordable and innovative options for Mainers, yet we can all agree that we must not leave universal access to chance. That is why I also support a public plan which must be available from day one."

The Gang of Six sounds like it's splintering...

[blm]

80. Why is this list showing Kerry when articles have shown he's the one protecting Kennedy's vision of

healthcare reform in these meetings and has repeatedly stated he's for strong public option?

Why the DELIBERATE DISINFO about Kerry? Especially when Reid and Schumer are planning co-ops as a way to reach public option?

[BlooInBloo]

2. Lieberman is not a member of the Democratic party.

[AlinPA]

95. He is a republican, actually a Palin supporter.

[Sebastian Doyle]

3. Kerry's pandering to the right again?

What, is he running for 2012? :eyes:

[Mass]

26. No, he has said again and again he was supported a public option. Seems that these people

have some money to throw away.

[karynnj]

46. No the people writing that site are dishonest swiftboaters

Kerry has been for the Public Option since day one - in fact he had a public option in his 2004 plan.

[Sebastian Doyle]

52. You're equating DFA with the swiftboaters???

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[karynnj]

71. No - DFA did not write that

I am equating Adam Green's group with that. They are intentionally misrepresenting Kerry's position and implying that he was bought by contributions.

What I want to know is why as there are over 12 Senators NOT FOR the public option Kerry is on this list of 8 - even though he is one of the strongest people for public option.

They are dishonest and DFA is doing a very foolish thing by allying with them.

Ask yourself:
1) Is Kerry among the 8 worst Democrats on this?
2) Were all Democrats held to the same standard?
3) Do you think the description is fair? - as it references a discredited story and in fact goes beyond what the story itself said, JK is NOT for a 10 yr trigger.

If this weren't Dean's organization would you back it?

[blm]

89. Dean listed Kerry as strong FOR public option. DFA doesn't read its own lists?

Someone is interested in smearing Kerry with another lie. Smells like Schumer, as usual.

[Arkana]

4. Wait, wait wait...John Kerry should not be on that list.

He's not standing in the way of anything. He's strongly in favor of a robust public option.

Geez, I thought we cleared this up.

[fadedrose]

5. Here's what it says on the link in the OP:

"Senator John Kerry

Total from health & insurance interests: $8,994,077

While Senator John Kerry (D-MA) has said in public that he supports a public option, the Huffington Post reports that "In a closed-door meeting of Senate Finance Committee Democratic members and their staff Wednesday evening, Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass.) suggested that if the committee bill didn't have enough votes for a public option it include a ten-year delay between passage of health care reform and the implementation of a public option."<1>

---------------------------------------------------------------

Looks like he's all for it, but maybe 10 years wouldn't be too long to wait....

[Arkana]

6. Fucking fuck.

Kerry's spokespeople already refuted this. He's strongly in favor of a public option, no goddamn 10-year-trigger. Public option, right now. That's what John Kerry supports.

http://www.openleft.com/diary/14109/senators-say-stuff-john-kerry-edition

To run ads against him would be ridiculous--you'd be alienating a strong progressive on many domestic issues and a valuable ally in the Senate all-around.

[fadedrose]

8. You seem to know more about Kerry than I do...

Why not call or email his office and tell him that DFA has him listed as not supporting the public option WHOLEHEARTEDLY....

Why waste the money on TV advertisements if they're not needed..

[Arkana]

11. If DFA is smart they'll do their research.

[TayTay]

13. Because it's like blackmail at this point

How many times do we have to harass the good guys on this point. How many times do they have to agree, in public and in print, with the public option before people take "yes" for an answer.

I think less of DFA and of that new group for pursuing this course of action. It demeans them and makes me think they don't care about accuracy or effectiveness in their campaigns. Do I really want to trust my time or money to groups like that?

[fadedrose]

18. Close to $9 mil makes the charge seem not too unlikely...

But..this is from the website in the original OP:


"Paid for by the Progressive Change Campaign Committee PAC (www.boldprogressives.org) and not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee."

Their "Contact Us" email is: [email protected]

[Mass]

19. Including a presidential campaign?

If DFA wants to be useful, they need to be smart.

[fadedrose]

20. I sent the thread to Bold Prggressives...

To: [email protected]

Hope somebody responds. Cool if Sen. Kerry wrote us :)

[Mass]

22. Thanks. I wished that Kerry had been clear when the first leak happened because we would not be

losing our time with this one once again, but it does not prevent progressives to be smart.

Anyway, any group spending any time on Kerry on this issue when he has answered again and again that he supported a public option is stupid and a waste of supporters' money, particularly when most of those in this list either have refused to answer or have answered YES.

[TayTay]

24. You mean the money he got when he ran for President

Ah, what does that matter?

so, following that logic, we should protest Obama because he got even more money from health care sources than Kerry did.

You first, what chant are you going to use to convince the President to propose a public option on health care?

[karynnj]

54. Kerry raised money in 2004 from people employed by that industry

The fact is there is one person most responsible for Kerry's number being that high - Howard Dean. Yes, that Howard Dean. Howard Dean opted out of federal financing for the 2004 primaries. Kerry followed suit because to do otherwise would put him at a disadvantage.

Like Dean, he raised money from many people - after he became the nominee - that included many of the same people who gave to Dean. Was Dean corrupted by the millions he raised. He raised $40 million in the last quarter of 2003 alone.

Kerry has a great record on this. In 2004, he was one unique in having run 4 Senate campaigns without taking PAC money. He wa sthe author of a bill he sponsored with Wellstone that would have really reformed campaign finance.

If Kerry was wrong to raise money to run a campaign from people, who happen to work in various industries, so is Dean.

[karynnj]

51. He is on Howard Dean's list as pro-public option

This is NOT DFA - it is another site that DFA is "joining up with". It appears, that in their haste to get content, they didn't check their own information.

If they continue this, I hope people reject DFA. This is swiftboating. I seriously doubt that Dean would agree with this.

Seeing that you know DFA so well, why don't YOU call them and ask why they are backing this POS when it dissagrees with their own information.

There is no need to call Kerry's office - KERRY, himself wrote this on Daily Kos last week:



"Been working very hard on the Finance committee to try to see it included. Harder slog than it ought to be. I ran for President with a public option as an anchor off my health care plan, want to see one now that we get to do reform. Would do Medicare for all if I could start from scratch, so I’m a definite supporter of a strong, national public option. We’ll see what we can do. Glad to see HELP Committee passed out a bill with one today – EMK and Dodd, you couldn’t have two better leaders on this issue."

http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2009/7/15/124310/060/125#c125
.

[The Source]

49. Kerry can't be trusted on this

I wish he could be, but I don't trust Kerry on compromise. It never seems like there's a compromise that Kerry doesn't like. The trigger is a perfect compromise for him. He can vote for a strong public option at the same time as he votes for a trigger that will never ever be triggered. He gets it both ways.

Considering that the whip count campaign you link to is being run by Openleft and DFA and then DFA put out this email... I'm seriously wonder if DFA knows something we don't.

I guess we'll all know for sure when the Finance bill comes out this week. That's when we will see if Sen. Kerry really supports a public plan. Or if he was for it before he voted against it.

[karynnj]

55. DFA did NOTHING but take the site as is

I frankly thing the DFA can not be trusted on this. Not out of malice, just out of sloppiness. The site absolutely distorts Kerry's position. They go further than the article they claim as their source.

First of all, ask yourself if they held others to the same standard. Schumer was said by Snowe in a direct quote to be working with her on a trigger and on a talk show spoke positively of the idea of a "coop" rather than a public option - he is not here.

They asked NONE of the Senators about what they would take as a compromize if a straight public option won't pass the committee.

[Forkboy]

61. Uh huh. Welcome to DU.

[MarjorieG]

69. & posts and you don't trust Kerry, passionate about the public option, way back to his great 2004

plan. DFA is mistaken on this, and may have believed the garbage coming from Schumer's office a little too much, who is no point person on the public option.

This knee jerk blaming and bad mouthing Kerry, such a champion of all our causes, has to stop.

[blm]

77. BULLSHIT - someaone AT DFA has it wrong - Dean has Kerry listed as strong support for public option

and Kerry has also been reading letters from Dean's site INTO THE MINUTES of the meetings.

Someone has targeted Kerry for this DISINFO on his position BECAUSE he's pissing them off.

[Arkana]

84. His spokesman was pretty clear--if you choose not to believe them

then that's your problem.

[TayTay]

7. Total lie

Kerry is for the public option as an initial option on the bill.

I hate it when progressive groups lie. It damages the cause and makes it harder to convince people that the cause is worth fighting.

This is very sad.

[Arkana]

9. A-fucking-men.

This rumor about Kerry wanting the 10-year trigger was absolute bullshit and yet "progressive" websites and bloggers pounced on it and beat it to death before Kerry's office was even able to refute it.

But by all goddamn means, LET'S KEEP EATING OUR OWN, "PROGRESSIVES"!

[fadedrose]

12. Call or email Senator Kerry and have him contact DFA ASAP nt

[blm]

94. Why? DFA Fucked up by letting Adam Green use them when Howard Dean has Kerry listed as YES

and REAL NEWS REPORTS state that Kerry is in these meetings PROTECTING Kennedy's vision of healthcare reform - that includes public option.

YOU call and email the LIARS who are deliberately lying about Kerry's position.

Turn the lie around to where it belongs - on the LIARS.

[karynnj]

59. I second your amen - and was impressed that the Kerry office

responded within several hours - not days. Even then, the lefties quibbled over the words.

[fadedrose]

10. Call or email Senator Kerry and have him straighten it out

A simple email from DFA to its list would cure any damage.

[TayTay]

15. like last week when he wrote at DKos

"Been working very hard on the Finance committee to try to see it included. Harder slog than it ought to be. I ran for President with a public option as an anchor off my health care plan, want to see one now that we get to do reform. Would do Medicare for all if I could start from scratch, so I’m a definite supporter of a strong, national public option. We’ll see what we can do. Glad to see HELP Committee passed out a bill with one today – EMK and Dodd, you couldn’t have two better leaders on this issue."

http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2009/7/15/124310/060/125#c125

Again, how many times do we harass people until we take "yes" for an answer? 20, 50, until they make enough money off using his name?

[blm]

79. DFA doesn't READ DEAN'S list of senators for/against public option? DFA doesn't KNOW that

Kerry's been reading letters from Dean's site into the transcripts of the Finance Committee meetings?

Someone at DFA is using disinfo to distract attention from the REAL culprits.

[wisteria]

35. This is an old post at Huffington and it is wrong-Huffington cleared up this matter.

I think someone or some people are out to make the Senator look bad for there own benefit.

[karynnj]

48. Except Kerry didn't give that information

Here is what Kerry himself said:

"Been working very hard on the Finance committee to try to see it included. Harder slog than it ought to be. I ran for President with a public option as an anchor off my health care plan, want to see one now that we get to do reform. Would do Medicare for all if I could start from scratch, so I’m a definite supporter of a strong, national public option. We’ll see what we can do. Glad to see HELP Committee passed out a bill with one today – EMK and Dodd, you couldn’t have two better leaders on this issue."

http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2009/7/15/124310/060/125#c125

I have never heard of this site - why are you believing a site saying something which they tacitly admit is not what the Senator is saying. In fact, they go beyond a story disputed by Kerry's office the day it came out - based on information from unnamed sources.

I question the motives of this person, not Senator Kerry.

[blm]

76. BULLSHIT - that was a discredited story - and that amount of money is from 2004 and they KNOW IT.

Every presidential nominee receives that and Obama's figure is probably double.

Don't fall for LIES and SPIN.

Kerry is being targeted BECAUSE he IS fighting to protect Kennedy's vision on healthcare reform in those finance meetings and it's pissing someone off.

Corporatist manipulators know exactly how to play the left against each other.

Some of you will be so duped and distracted by any mention of Kerry that the REAL culprits will slide under the radar.

[beachmom]

14. This is a lie. John Kerry is FOR the public option, and I am highly offended

by the use of "traitor" in regards to our Dems, even those we disagree with.

If health care reform fails, it will be in part because of this insane lefty circular firing squad. Just disgusting!!

[fadedrose]

21. Be highly offended with me, the word "traitor" was my bright idea..

Don't want to blame the DFA or the Bold Progressives for that too....:)

[blm]

81. Then post a CORRECTION.....

.

[wisteria]

37. I agree. n/t

[Blaukraut]

16. The donation amounts might be deceptive

If I were to venture a guess, I'd say that John Kerry's donation amount is this high because he was our Democratic candidate in '04, and that would naturally raise his total well above everyone else's.

[wisteria]

38. You really have a good point . And, if those responsible for this accusation have not checked their

facts-which it appears they have not, then they lose credibility with a lot of people including me. And, they own Senator Kerry an apology.

[The Source]

53. so what?

I think the average person getting emails from DFA knows Kerry ran for President. It doesn't take a genius to figure out his numbers would be higher.

The issue is that Kerry can't be trusted. He loves to compromise. He's a good guy, but too good. Sometimes you need to kick ass and take names... and this health care fight is the time to do it. If not now then when? Compromising away universal coverage is unacceptable.

[karynnj]

63. Per the Boston Globe - he is the one on the Finance committee

defending Kennedy's plan. I was with other Kerry supporters the day before the election last year at a rally in Hyannis and at the election evening victory speech. In both Kerry spoke about this as one of the most important things now possible. This is very personal to him - and he had a great plan in 2004.

As to compromising away, Kerry has more examples where he stood up and fought than most. He stood against the entire power elite to continue to investigate BCCI, just as he stood against the Republicans and half the Democrats, including the Clintons to investigata the ilegal funding of the Contras, and that was before he stood up as a 27 yuear old vet against the paranoid Nixon administration. Can you imagine Bill Clinton doing three things that any rational person would see could eliminate any chance to reach the goal of being President?

There is a tendancy to equate politicians who thunder and yell - which Kerry does not do - with being forceful and strong - when in reality, they are just loud.

If you look at the Finance committee - there only Stabenow, Menendez, Rockefeller, Bingaman, Schumer and Kerry are for the public option per Dean. (Snowe is too, with a trigger) Of these, Schumer has spoken positively of the "co-op" and has claimed he is the one between the extremes here. Yet Schumer is not on the list. I have heard nothing from my Senator, Menendez - or from Bingaman and Stabanow. Only Kerry and Rockefeller have publicly said much - and Kerry is the stronger.

[blm]

82. You don't know much of this nation's real history do you? NO LAWMAKER has bucked establishment

more than Kerry has and his enemies in DC are many including many corporatist Dems who spread disinfo and these type of smears against him.


You are welcome to name ONE LAWMAKER who has uncovered and exposed more government corruption that also exposed their corrupt corporate allies than John Kerry has over the last 35 years.

[karynnj]

60. Exactly

Just as Obama's, McCain's, and Clinton's numbers would be high too.

I know people who work for a drug company, doing research. I have no idea if they contributed to Kery or anyone else. What I do know is that this number mostly represents people like them.

Second of all - someone needs to ask the DFA about Howard Dean's numbers. I know he raised a lot of money - and he rightfully gets credit for being the first to really tap the internet well. BUT ... the people, who contributed mostly worked for companies --- and I assume Dr Dean got more than a few from people who respected him and who worked in the insurance/drug industries.

[Mass]

17. Kerry supports public option. DFA should see with Dean directly.

Something is very weird when DFA takes unnamed rumors above what Dean has published himself.

[fadedrose]

23. Amen, I'm done, hope you guys get this straightened out..... nt

[brianna69]

25. Reconciliation is the way to go

or have Harry Reid do his job and get all democratic senators to vote for cloture and pass health care reform with an up and down vote. Forget about the conservadems, they are spineless traitors bought and paid for by the Insurance Lobby.

[fadedrose]

27. I got a reply from

This is from: Adam Green



"If Kerry would issue a one-sentence statement saying, "I fully support a public option and refuse to vote for any watered down alternative, including a trigger or co-op plan," he'd be fine.

But he so far refuses to do that. So, our critique still stands. We fully acknowledge that public option is his first choice, but he has to draw a line in the sand.

This is a no brainer."



On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 10:10 PM, martha > wrote:

Lots of people are up in arms about John Kerry being on the Target List....Better get this straightened out as soon as you can...

Thread is here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8538589&mesg_id=8538739




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.20/2251 - Release Date: 07/20/09 18:29:00



Edited to remove my real email address...

[Mass]

28. Thanks. I am not surprised, but would asked whether they asked the same thing of all other Dems.

If yes, from what I hear, a large number of names are missing here, some of them having not even said if they would vote for a public option if it was in the bill. Are the priorities not a little bit misplaced.

[Blaukraut]

29. That's what pisses me off. How low is the bar set for Landrieu?

Where is her line in the sand? "I might be open to a public option of some sort, preferably a compromise...blah blah"?
But Kerry has to flat out refuse to vote for anything that falls short of a full-fledged public option or he is dirt on our shoes.

[TayTay]

31. So he admits it is blackmail

Say what I want when I want it or the truth gets it.

Kerry has already stated his position. He did so last week in a post at that barely read, online site DailyKos:

"Been working very hard on the Finance committee to try to see it included. Harder slog than it ought to be. I ran for President with a public option as an anchor off my health care plan, want to see one now that we get to do reform. Would do Medicare for all if I could start from scratch, so I’m a definite supporter of a strong, national public option. We’ll see what we can do. Glad to see HELP Committee passed out a bill with one today – EMK and Dodd, you couldn’t have two better leaders on this issue."

http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2009/7/15/124310/060/125#c125

This guy Adam apparently feels that it isn't real unless he gets the personal attention of a US Senator. (Not like the Senator is busy this week, what with him being a member of the Senate Finance Committee and them working on the health care problem, but some people need personal attention no matter what.)

Why does Kerry have to reply to this guy Adam when he has already replied so publicly?

[Sebastian Doyle]

36. That statement from Kerry is really not all that reassuring.

He seems to be leaving it up to the "leadership" of Teddy Kennedy and Chris Dodd. Problem with that is that Teddy's not really leading much of anything at the moment (sad statement, but no less the truth) and Dodd has an obvious conflict of interest with the public good, because his wife's income depends on continuation of the corporate status quo.

I do not trust Chris Dodd on this one. Not at all.

[TayTay]

39. I can see where you would have problems with it.

A US Senator with membership on the very Senate committee that is debating health care reform payment systems this week should say something stronger about supporting the public option. Like, oh, I support the public option and am working to put it into the bill we are working on this week.

friggin bastard. Why can't he support the public option by saying he supports the public option and prove he is working to get the public option into the bill by working in the finance committee to get the public option into the finance committee bill. Which is what he said he was doing. Only apparently he didn't use the right code words for some people or say, "with sugar on top" at the exact right moment.

Why, oh why, can't these people ever do what they say they will do, even whey they say they will and actually do what they say they will do. How can we trust someone who says yes to us all the time? (It's so unprogressive. Don't they know we won't trust them unless we get to yell at them first for a while?)

How dare he cite the chairman of that other Senate committee that just reported the public option out of the Health, Education, Labor and Pensions committee. My God, if our Democratic Senators start agreeing with each other and supporting each other on things important to the progressive community, then we might have nothing to yell at them about and that would give us too much free time. (It is theoretically possible that we might use that time to call out people who don't agree with us, but what fun is that really?)

[Sebastian Doyle]

42. It's as simple as this

Pass a bill that includes (at the least) a true public option. For once in their goddamn careers, do what's right for the American people and FUCK if it puts a handful of goddamn billionaires out of business.

THEY can afford to survive. Some of us WON'T without a real health care plan NOW. Not 20goddamnfucking13 either. NOW.

[Mass]

43. Would you prefer that Kerry lied and said there was a majority of Senators on the Finance Committee.

The statement was honest. I agree with targeting and calling those who do not want a public option. I even agree with calling those who have already expressed their support to remind them the urgency. But why spend money on these when the other ones have not even committed on voting for such a bill if it arrives in committee.

[Sebastian Doyle]

44. Kerry is using the same "nuanced" weaselspeak that he used in the 2004 Primary

It made me sick then, and it makes me sick now. What's he going to say next?

" I was for the triggers before I was against them"?

Jesus Christ.... he lives in a state fucked up by Romneycare. Isn't that enough of an example of what a shitty health care plan is?

[Mass]

50. It depends what you care about. That we get a bill with a public option or that we

have Kerry use those exact words you want.

In the first case, call these senators who have not committed for voting for the bill.

In the second case, continue to vent about nothing. In both case, I feel like doing something useful. So, Bye.

[karynnj]

73. Which sentence of Kerry's are you refering to here

In addition, you know that Kerry was not weaseling in 2004 - he had explained in detail the two bills and why he voted for one and against the other - what he did wrong was to then use shorthand when the question was asked again. Dean wasn't exactly perfect either.

Kerry is saying that this is harder than it should be. That is just an honest statement. He only gets to cast his own vote.


..... which might be why the DFA should work with people not committed.

The second problem is that that ad is not compelling in anyway and will not to anything to get people to emotionally try to move their Senators. All it can do is hurt many of the Senators it targest.

(Not Kerry because he is not up until 2014 and MA is not stupid enough to believe this.)

[The Source]

62. Just checked DFA's site

Front page they are already running ads against Landrieu.

www.democracyforamerica.com

And frankly I have gotten several emails from DFA targeting office visits and phone calls to Martinez and Nelson. A tv ad on Nelson would be cool. The ad could just link him to Martinez. They are both total asshats. Nelson's probably gonna vote wrong on this. He usually does.

[karynnj]

74. Given that DFA has emailed this and has it on there front page, they are no longer

an organization that I trust. I am not sure of Dean's current connection, but this is a really disappointingly stupid action on their part.

[The Source]

58. We shall see very soon

It is pretty simple. Can't wait to see this finance committee bill. If it has a public option and no trigger or other compromise that kill the option, than DFA will have to eat their words. But if it is a compromised bill then... I might even contribute to DFA to pay for the next ad.

[karynnj]

75. No matter what comes out, they are still wrong on Kerry

It will be incredible if the Finance committee comes out with a public option - there are 23 members and only 7 (including Snowe are on her list.)

[karynnj]

72. How does Kerry do this if there are not at least 49 other

Senators behind it? He is not even the chair of either relevent committee.

[TayTay]

90. Then I am sure you will join me in thanking the Senators who are for the public option

and will send out notes to the offices of Senators, like John Kerry who are so vocal in being for the public option and in working for that in the Finance Committee.

I'm sure those Senators are being heavily lobbied by industry and insurance groups and every note that encourages them to continue to work for the public option is deeply appreciated.

[karynnj]

68. He commended Dodd and Kennedy for the bill that had

then come out a few days before. Kennedy chairs the Health, Education, Labor and Pensions committee. Dodd is second in line in that committee and historically has voted very much like Kennedy on any health issues. He and Kerry were the two co-sponsors of SCHIP to introduce it along with the sponsors, Kenendy and Hatch.

Just as Kerry is the Senator, who leads on every foreign policy issue and on climate change (with Boxer), Kennedy is still the leader on health care - and I wouldn't down play his current ability. (Kerry spoke at his election victory of Kennedy already being back in DC working on it - as he had through part of the summer. ) Dodd will succeed him.

Kerry is on the conservative Finance committee - where he is easily the most liberal. He is the one fighting for public option there.

[wisteria]

40. This is ridiculous. I for one would rather have some heath care reforms than none at all.

This is twisting arms and making outrageous demands. I hope Kerry just ignores these A**holes. There may need to be compromise-and Kerry should leave all options on the table.

[Sebastian Doyle]

47. The public option IS the compromise

Single Payer is what we should have. The "compromise" is allowing these criminal pieces of shit insurance companies to continue to exist at all. I'd rather they didn't exist, but with the public option, the people can choose to leave them behind, and the corporations can either reform their practices (yeah right) or they can find a new scam.

ANYTHING that allows these bastards to carry on with business as usual is NOT a compromise, and is NOT an improvement. It is, in reality, WORSE than the status quo, because it allows the illusion of "reform" to exist, and then no further change will ever be possible.

[karynnj]

66. Kerry said he would like medicare for all - if designing this from scratch

The fact is that just having the provision to elimiate pre-existing conditions and the subsidies to help people above the medicaid level to 4 times the poverty level purchase health insurance make this better than what we have.

The people helped by those provisions are real. As to the illusion of reform stopping future real reform - look at 1993. The issue of health care was dead. If not for Kerry and Kennedy writing a bill based on a MA program - that Kennedy and Hatch changed to become SCHIP, there would not have been another chance until now. Even then, it would not be clear they could get a better bill.

I count on Senators like Kennedy, Dodd and Kerry to work to get the best bill that can pass.

[Sebastian Doyle]

67. And how can you count on Dodd to pass a good bill

When his wife is counting on him to do exactly the opposite? Guess who's opinion he's going to consider first.

[karynnj]

70. Gee maybe you should write Adam Green - he could Dodd's name on the list too

The fact is that it looks like Kennedy, Dodd and the rest of the committee did write at least a draft of a good bill.

What Green refuses to realize is that you need 50 Senators to pass anything. It is completely clear on this issue that Kerry is among the 30 best (really the 10 best - but i don't need to make that point). Any good plan that has 50 Senators, would include him. So, why target him unless you have a different agenda?

Many people have called on us to call Kerry's office - I suggest that you call Howard Dean and ask him if he thinks the DFA should target Kerry. I seriously doubt he would - as the Nation wrote of Kerry reading letters, Dean's effort generated into the record at the finance committee in support of the public option.

If DFA continues this - I will not support them and will advise others not to as well.

[blm]

83. Baloney - and ask Adam Green why Schumer isn't targeted for pushing co-ops as his public option plan

Open your eyes to who the REAL WEASELS are, SD. You're dead wrong about Kerry and Teresa. He's been for public option for many years and Teresa funds healthcare clinics for the poor and underserved neighborhoods. You must not know that she traveled all over Southern Africa as a child and teen assisting her father to bring healthcare to villages that had none. She has not changed her concern and focus, but, sharpened it.

Your need to spread disinfo about TRUE healthcare advocates is disgusting.

[karynnj]

64. Read Kerry's DKOS comment The no brainer is Green

The fact is that Green is a jerk and is unwilling to admit that he wrote the description very dishonestly. The fact is that no Senator would state precisely what Green wrote - and Dean is NOT asking any other Senator to write that. In fact, it is clear that Schumer wouldn't as he is considering many things that Green would call watered doewn. Yet, he is not on the list. If he used the standard he is holding Kerry to for all Seantors, there would likely be near 60 Democratic names there

No Senator would state what Green wrote - not even Kennedy. The reason is if he can't get the bill he wants, he would vote for something that is watered down.

Here is an example. In 1996, Kerry and Kennedy wrote the Healthy families bill, that was informally called Kerry/Kennedy. The election in 1996 were not good for the Democrats and we ended up with 55 Republicans. Kennedy too the bill he wrote with Kerry and compromised with Hatch to wriet a bill called S-CHIP. The differences, in Kerry/Kennedy it was an entitlement - in SCHIP, it has to be re-enacted every 5 years and Kerry/Kennedy was a national plan, while SCHIP alowed states to create their own versions. Now, Kerry/Kennedy was the better program, but SCHIP (which Kerry co-sponsored) was the biggest increase to health care insurance since the 1960s and it provided millions of kids with insurance they otherwise would not have had.

Was that compromise worth it?

[calimary]

30. I called that miserable DINO we have "representing" us here in California a few weeks back.

It was late June. I said - hey, we just got through Father's Day last weekend. Which makes me want to ask Diane - my EMPLOYEE - Diane, who's yer daddy? The people, or the insurance lobby? C'mon. Cough it up, Di. Tell us. Who's yer daddy?

[Mass]

32. List of the senators who have not agreed to support a public option.

As the list is incomplete in DFA email. Those guys refuse to say if they would vote for a bill with a public option. Just in case you consider they are the priority to call.

http://www.billpress.com/

Senator Blanche Lincoln (D-AR)

Senator Tom Carper (D-DE)

Senator Maria Cantwell (D-WA)

Senator Ron Wyden (D-OR)

Senator Bill Nelson (D-FL)

Senator Ben Nelson (D-NE)

Senator Mary Landrieu (D-LA)

Senator Kent Conrad (D-ND)

Senator Max Baucus (D-MT)

Senator Dianne Feinstein (D-CA)

Senator Evan Bayh (D-IN)

Senator Mark Pryor (D-AR)

Senator Joe Lieberman (I-CT)

Senator Mark Warner (D-VA)

If 4 of these people do not vote for a public option, there is no chance of getting one. So, I do not get the reasoning of losing our times attacking people who may think it is better to have something than nothing. Get the other ones to vote for a public option. That will solve the problem.

[wisteria]

33. These people will not get me to do anything until they make sure they get their targets correct.

Senator Kerry should not be on this list. He has said over and over again that he supports a public option and he has always supported high quality health care for all Americans.

[Mass]

34. Call the people in the list I posted. It is more complete and probably more accurate as well.

[wisteria]

41. Thanks. n/t

[karynnj]

45. The information on John Kerry is just plain dishonest

Kerry has been strongly for a public option since day one and is listed that way on Dr Dean's list. In addition, he has repeatedly spoken or written of that postion - including recently on Daily Kos, where he answered a question on the public option saying:

"Been working very hard on the Finance committee to try to see it included. Harder slog than it ought to be. I ran for President with a public option as an anchor off my health care plan, want to see one now that we get to do reform. Would do Medicare for all if I could start from scratch, so I’m a definite supporter of a strong, national public option. We’ll see what we can do. Glad to see HELP Committee passed out a bill with one today – EMK and Dodd, you couldn’t have two better leaders on this issue."

http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2009/7/15/124310/060/125#c125

In their description, they essentially call Kerry a liar - noting that he publicly says that he is for the public obtion, but that in the Finance committee he pushed a 10 year trigger. Now, this is beyond what the Huffington Post said and ignores that Kerry's office called them and reafirmed that he was for the public option NOW.

This is swiftboating - where they are taking unnamed sources reporting a story that is contrary to his known positions and the fact that he has been the strongest advocate for public option on that committee and reporting it as if it were the full truth. To me, in addition to knowing it is not his position, the telling thing is that the anonymous sources said that no one discussed the proposal. I have watched hearings and have never seen a proposal completely ignored. (Now, even if Kerry were open to triggers, where is Schumer's name. He has spoken positively on the "co-op" idea and it was he who Snowe said she was working with. I don't think he should be there, but these provable positions are equivilent to what Kerry is only accused of.)

There second "proof" is that Kerry has received over $8 million in contributions. Now, the man who is the most to "blame" for that high number is Dr Dean. Most of that money was raised in 2004. Senator Kerry followed Dr Dean's lead in opting out of public financing, allowing him to raise far more money - much of it using techniques successful for Dr Dean. Senator Kerry, the author and sponsor of the Clean Money, clean elections bill with Wellstone really could not have opted out unless someone else did first -- so he could argue level playing field. In addition to the bill with Wellstone, Senator Kerry was then known for being one of very few Senators who had rejected PAC money for 4 Senate elections. This is something Dean rightfully gets credit for - so why is it wrong when Kerry did exactly the same thing.

This is a very stupid, idiotic attack that mskes me think that the original site has agendas other than getting a good bill. Unless they change this, I will NEVER have anything to do with either Act Blue, DFA or any other organization that promotes this. It is swiftboating.

[inna]

57. what does this post have negative "rating"???

anyone?? :wtf:

[karynnj]

65. Because it deserves it

Look at the list Mass posted. Those are all the Senators who have not said they will vote for a public option - a few have made it clear they won't. But, instead of putting all of them on the list, the creep who designed this put John Kerry, who supported a public option in 2004 and ever since and has a LONG history of being consistently on the side of getting people health care.

Why? He decided that unless John Kerry - and incidentaly, only John Kerry - needed to say that he would refuse under any circumstances to vote for anything less than an immediate public option. It is unlikely that ANY Senator would be willing to say that.

So, one of the STRONGEST supporters of a public option is attacked, while others - not for the public option - are ignored. Think about that. The problem is not Kerry, it is that there may not be 50 votes. Last I looked, Dean listed 38. So this idiot, Adam Green, thinks the solution is to target John Kerry. Well, he is not the first person to lie about Senator Kerry - we even have a word for people like him - swiftboater.

[zulchzulu]

78. Which part about Kerry saying repeatedly that he's for the Public Option don't you understand?

Ferchrissakes, the Iowa caucus 2004 is over, pal.

[kjackson227]

85. Hmm... I'm surprised at John Kerry :(

[Arkana]

86. Read the thread.

The accusations against Kerry are false and his office has already corrected them.

[ray of light]

87. Then you should read the comments in this thread which proves the person who made that list is a lia

liar.

[Hutzpa]

88. Funny how most of the positive threads are being un'rec

K&R


:kick:

[karynnj]

93. Not the case - this is not a positive thread and there are many positive threads

highly rated. This thread, through no fault of the op, links to a very biased stupid attack on Kerry. Even if Kerry were not there, the ad is pathetic. It will get people to move their Senators. It will just get many angry at their Democratic Senator. Most people will not be moved to go to their Senator, accuse him of essentially being corrupt and then effectively get them to change their vote.

[TheCoxwain]

91. Will these guys prevent voting .. and let Repubs continue their filibuster?

[Lord Helmet]

92. They targeted Kerry based on an un-sourced Huffington Post article.

The rest are fools but listing Kerry was a mistake.