"I am a proponent of a single-payer universal healthcare program."

[DJ13]

In 2003, a young Illinois state senator named Barack Obama told an AFL-CIO meeting, "I am a proponent of a single-payer universal healthcare program."

Single payer. Universal. That's health coverage, like Medicare, but for everyone who wants it. Single payer eliminates insurance companies as pricey middlemen. The government pays care providers directly. It's a system that polls consistently have shown the American people favoring by as much as 2-to-1.

There was only one thing standing in the way, Obama said six years ago: "All of you know we might not get there immediately because first we have to take back the White House, we have to take back the Senate and we have to take back the House."

Fast-forward six years. President Obama has everything he said was needed -- Democrats in control of the executive branch and both chambers of Congress. So what's happened to single payer?

http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2009/05/22/moyers/
Rx and the single payer | Salon

[leftstreet]

1. Now you've done it

:-)

[DJ13]

3. Sorry!

:hide:

[Cleita]

2. Well, if we twist the arms of the House and the Senate to pass a single

payer bill, then I believe he won't veto it but sign it into law. However, I wish he used more of his power to lean on Congress to go in that direction.

[Oregone]

4. This is why I oppose Democrats owning guns

They may just shoot themselves in the foot too often


Wow, they are going to break any illusion of caring for people with the BS reform they are peddling over single-payer.

[Honeycombe8]

54. The OP is misguided, IMO. Making an issue where there is none. Obama IS a proponent of the

"public option," which is what Medicare is. Doesn't matter if ins. cos. are left to compete, that I can see. As long as there is a public option.

[TheWraith]

82. And Obama has said this repeatedly during the campaign.

When asked about it in one of the primary debates, he explained that if he were going to build a system from the ground up, it would be logical to go with single-payer, but starting with an existing system, moving to single-payer would be too sharp a shift, and that they'd need to come up with some sort of reform that would let people keep their existing insurance if they chose.

On edit: AtomicKitten beat me to it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8460412&mesg_id=8460433

[Oregone]

88. "moving to single-payer would be too sharp a shift"

Define the "sharpness" of a shift and why it is a negative thing, especially if you are shifting away from a disastrous system.

[TheWraith]

96. For starters...

You'd piss off every single person who was even vaguely satisfied with their current insurance.

[Oregone]

87. A "public option" is not single-payer

And it does matter if the insurance companies are left to compete. If the system is engineered to fail on unlevel playing ground, then you are going to blow your load on bullshit reform that goes nowhere.

BTW, don't you think it is immoral and unethical for lawmakers to allow the private companies to continue to "compete". Their competition results in half of America's bankruptcies, 22K deaths a year, and immense financial and physical damage.

[katandmoon]

5. I no longer believe a single thing Obama says

[Oregone]

6. He did in fact get his children the dog he promised

[bvar22]

24. Not really.

He said he was going to get a "shelter dog".

Instead, he got a very expensive "pure bred" rich people's dog.

Granted, its a small thing, but representative of the difference between the campaign, and actual performance in office.

[omega minimo]

29. oh goodness, you're right

I was ready for a joke, I'd made the dog-as-kept-promise joke myself.

[MarjorieG]

27. He does try to get what he says, but paid off corp Dems won't follow through.

[mkultra]

39. i believe him

[Beacool]

7. He's a politician, that's what happened.

They are all bullshit artists, no surprise there.

:shrug:

[vaberella]

19. He ran on something else and that's what we should hold him too.

Further more in that video he clearly stated that steps need to be taken and he's also found that the Senate would fuck him even if he took back Senate and the House.

[Beacool]

70. Yes, he did.

But I take what politicians say with a grain of salt. "No drama" Obama was not known precisely for being bold and daring in either senate. Politicians say a lot of things if it helps them to get elected. If we are lucky, they accomplish a third of what they promise.

So, I'm giving him a year and then I'll make up my mind about him as president.

;)

[quakerboy]

77. I am as well

On the year thing.

I am just really hoping that he comes through for us. And for himself. I so badly want him to succeed and not stick us with a Gingrich or Palin in 12. It wouldn't take much. Honestly, finding a way to twist arms and bring us real health care that the people can see in action before the midterms would do it, in my opinion. Otherwise the R's take it back, and and undo every other good thing he does.

[denem]

85. Beacool: '"Hillary* is a 'bullshit artist "'. I will mark that for future reference.

* Hillary is a politician. "All politicians are bullshit artists".

[AtomicKitten]

8. He also said:

“If I were starting a system from scratch then I think that the idea of moving toward a single-payer system could very well make sense. That’s the kind of system that you have in most industrialized countries around the world. The only problem is that we’re not starting from scratch. We have historically a tradition of employer-based healthcare. And, although there are a lot of people who are not satisfied with their health care, the truth is that the vast majority of people currently get health care from their employers, and you’ve got this system that’s already in place."

[high density]

13. Incremental steps

Obama knows that we can't just go 'cold turkey' to a new system. He is setting up the framework for this change but it's going to take years.

[AtomicKitten]

15. Agreed and dragging the Blue Dogs kicking and screaming with him. n/t

[Fire1]

36. You said a baaaad word. 'Incremental.' n/t

[eridani]

67. Nonsense. We established Medicare "cold turkey", correct? n/t

[avaistheone1]

73. The incremental steps Obama outlined are win the WH, the Senate, and the Congress...

All that has been done - so Obama needs to step up to the plate and show leadership on single-payer.

No cold turkey is necessary to institute a single payer health insurance system in this country. We have experience with various forms of government funded health care most notably Medicare. All we have to do is expand the program to Medicare for all. House bill HR676 does that.

It is all very simple. There will never be a better time. NOW is the time.

[dflprincess]

95. He knows his pals in Congress can't go "cold turkey" from the bribes

they get from the insurance companies. That's why he expects us to believe that the very people who broke the system are the ones to help fix it.

[omega minimo]

21. "We have historically a tradition of highpowered lobbyists buying off our legislators"

"If I were starting a system from scratch then I think that the idea of free and fair elections without undue corporate and lobbyist influence could very well make sense."

[AtomicKitten]

22. You really shouldn't put into quotes that which was not said.

I don't disagree with your statement but you are being disingenuous and misleading those that don't look closer by using quotation marks.

Just sayin'

[omega minimo]

23. It's quite clear as a reply to your post.

Clearly a parody b/c sadly, no actual legislator would say such a thing, would they? :think:

[AtomicKitten]

25. A quote is a quote, and that's not a quote. n/t

[BlooInBloo]

33. Nice knowingly false use of quotation marks. Ironic, in the context of...

talking about *Obama* lying.

:rofl:

[omega minimo]

34. You must think people are stupider than I do.

I'll be most folks irony AND parody. Esp. when it directly follows the original being parodied. :freak:

btw I'm not "talking about Obama lying."

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[omega minimo]

42. I'm not responsible for your lack of comprehension or your hatefulness. You are.

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[omega minimo]

47. you suppose your name calling doesn't prove how vile your behavior is?

[mkultra]

49. your sentence should start with "Do" and contain the word "that". Also, don't end with the word "is

here is a more appropriate way to write your sentence.

"Do you suppose that your name calling doesn't prove the vileness of your behavior."
It might also be less awkward if you remove the word "doesn't" as "suppose" can be used to flip the purpose while maintaining meaning.

English is easy. Take a look at your local community college for further help.

[bvar22]

26. Obama was more than a little dishonest with that comment.

The fact is, we don't have to "start from scratch".
The US has two (2) functioning Single Payer Health Care Systems up and running.

Instead of "starting from scratch", we could simply expand Medicare.

[AtomicKitten]

28. I believe he meant replacing it entirely with Medicare.

I don't think he's being disingenuous. I think he's being pragmatically realistic considering the jackass Blue Dogs have already fired a salvo about the public option. :mad:

Ideally we should get the private insurance companies entirely out of the loop.

[democrat2thecore]

30. Bingo. Of course, as we've seen, Obama is a man who knows how to parse words

Oh, God...how I was hoping it would be so different.

[avaistheone1]

75. At best Obama was being disingenuous.

Sometimes I think Obama gets tripped up in own political rhetoric.

[MasonJar]

56. Is he suggesting that employers are chafing at the bit to continue providing

health care? I doubt it very seriously; businesses would prosper without having to provide health care. Is he saying citizens who have business provided health care would not like a government provided care system of equal or better merit, which also provides every other citizen the same coverage? How stupid and mean does he think we are?

[AtomicKitten]

68. I can't speak for him, but I prefer a European style single-payer.

I think any reasonable person would be hard-pressed to find a problem with that system. I also am having a tough time believing that it's not doable here. But I think as a legislator and having gotten a feel for Congress, he is calculating the opposition would make it next to impossible. I am particularly disgusted with the Blue Dogs in the Senate standing up in opposition to the public option.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[omega minimo]

20. They may be "chicken shit" but your sexual slur violates DU Rules. Link at bottom of page.

[skipos]

10. Anyhone who thinks THIS senate would come remotely close to passing single payer

is delusional. And that includes Obama.

[avaistheone1]

76. Why the hell not? It is the will of the American people!

That includes both Democrats and Republicans.


~"I dream of things that never were and say, 'Why not'?"
~Robert F. Kennedy

[harun]

90. If the House passes Single Payer and Obama pressures the Senate

they would have a good shot at getting them to cave. Even the Senate Pukes don't want to be the face of denying everyone coverage.

[redqueen]

11. Democrats in control of the Senate?

:wtf:

Did you just fall off the turnip truck?

Do you not know what Blue Dogs are?

Fucking hell.

[Sebastian Doyle]

59. If we had a Senate Majority leader with a fucking spine

The useless Blue Balled traitors would be irrelevant.

[redqueen]

89. And if wishes were horses, then beggars would ride.

Meanwhile, back in reality...

[omega minimo]

93. For the want of a nail.....................

:hi:

[Thrill]

12. Obama ran for President for 2 yrs. And his health plan didn't include Single Payer

Over 30 debates and his health plan was clear. And it didn't include single payer.

He probably would like single payer. But he also found out after being in the Senate, that there wasn't a chance in hell it would ever pass.

[HopeOverFear]

14. People don't listen, do they? They hear what they want to hear.

[Jennicut]

16. Yeah, but back in 2003 when he was a STATE senator he was for it

That means he lied in 2007/2008 when he drew up plans not involving single payer when he ran as Prez, right?

I have never been sold on single payer. I am actually not sold on any health care plan right now. And I have diabetes and pay for tons of tests and visits to the doctor and for meds.

[democrat2thecore]

32. He parses words with the best of them. So sad. Was hoping for Change I could Believe In....nt

[Jennicut]

35. LOL. Really? I watched endless debates in 2007/2008. Obama never mentioned single payer.

We all knew were he stood, at least I thought most knew. What was going to happen? He was going to change his mind? Same as Afghanistan.
Its one thing to WANT him to be a certain way on an issue, its another to claim "I was hoping for change I could believe in". Well, what were you thinking when you voted for him? That it was somewhat change I could believe in but not really but maybe he will change." I think those of us who knew what we were getting get that. I do not agree with him on every issue, I think he is poor on gay rights. But I have never felt "deceived".

[Bluenorthwest]

79. He also said no mandated purchase

and claimed Clinton's mandates were very bad. Yet the current plan is a mandated purchase. So what about that? He said he was opposed to mandates, and that we should not vote for Clinton because she was for mandates. Now he's for mandates. So what happened?
This is the exact sort of contempt for the truth he displayed when supporting marriage equality in the 90's then clutching his pearls like the Deacon of Righteous Street in his current version. He's gone from supporter to bigoted obstructionist, the only explanation being his membership in a church that supports equality. Some explanation that is. Like saying you are against singing because you are in a choir.

[omega minimo]

18. People understand that once he got elected into the positions he mentioned, the game is rigged

That's the problem.

[democrat2thecore]

31. He knew where the money was --- and was not..........nt

[harun]

91. So what? Lincoln ran on not believing in equality of race as well.

Sometimes people work for what is right.

http://history1800s.about.com/od/abrahamlincoln/tp/Lincoln-Douglas01.htm

"Lincoln asserted that his opposition to slavery did not mean he believed in total racial equality."

[omega minimo]

17. YEAH BUT that was BEFORE we took back the White House, the Senate and the House

:crazy:

[slipslidingaway]

38. +1 ...And that was before we had employer based heath care and

private insurance companies who might be disrupted.

:shrug:

What has changed since 2003?

If anything there is now more of a reason to advocate for SPHC, it is the most cost effective system.

How we are going to pay for a public option when there will be a significant number of people eligible for Medicare in the next decade or two is beyond me, but one of the ideas is that we can cut Medicare expenses to fund the public option.

:think:


Sure it is nice to have a choice, I just do not think the US can afford the choice at this point, unless we want to kick the problem down the road a bit.

[omega minimo]

41. We can't afford to NOT have single payer next time a pandemic looms.

The timing was so bizarre. Simultaneous with health care debates (neat distraction from torture and Bushco prosecution), here comes Swine Flu which we have to call HINI so there's something else to worry about............



"I just do not think the US can afford the choice at this point, unless we want to kick the problem down the road a bit."


SPOT. ON.

[slipslidingaway]

45. And that is why I have been a strong proponent of SPHC...

it is not just about choice, it is a matter of what we can afford if we want to move this nation forward.

IMHO there is going to be a competition for primary care doctors as well as HC dollars in the future.

Only 2% of medical students intend to go into primary care and those that do will have enormous loans to pay, so it is really just a matter of finances. Which patients should I take, those who pay X, or X + 10%, or x + 20%???

If there is not an exceptionally strong public option then people could find themselves with a plan who pays on X for doctor visits.

Enacting poor legislation will only exacerbate the HC crisis in the future, all these groups competing for needs.

We need to fight as a block, not in fragmented groups.

:)

[omega minimo]

46. and you know EarlG announced a new group on this?

:thumbsup:

[slipslidingaway]

51. Bills are pretty much written by now, witnesses have been

called or not called.

I remember posting in the original thread for that group months ago...yeah I know things fall through the cracks, just saying it is late in the game.

And they may let a SPHC advocate speak on Thursday before Kennedy's Committee...how nice.

[omega minimo]

55. Oh I thought that speaker was a good sign, not another dog and pony show.

:(

[slipslidingaway]

58. I'm leaning towards a show, but I would like to believe...

if anything it could be good if they do not come to an agreement shortly, as it would allow more people to get involved.

But Obama is pressing for this done ASAP.

Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

:)

[omega minimo]

60. I hoped people would wake up sometime between now and when Reagan started destroying the country

enabling the corporations to take over and have just read more posts where people still don't seem to connect the dots in terms of Reaganism, corporate control, stolen elections, compromised politicians, economic collapse and unimpeached/unelected criminals who drove the final nails in the coffin.....

Hope? :think:

[slipslidingaway]

62. As more people slip into financial insecurity they are taking a more

active role, but I'm not sure that enough people are mad as hell quite yet.

And a weak public option will just put a band aid on the mess.

[omega minimo]

64. "quite yet" turns out to be a very, very long time.

[slipslidingaway]

65. Exactly...a slow bleed. n/t

[omega minimo]

66. "... slipsliding away........ ya know the nearer your destination, the more you're slipsliding....."

:hi:

[slipslidingaway]

69. ya know...I thought about a name change but wanted to see how

things played out, Summers and Geithner had already been selected, still hoping for the best.

:hi:

[invictus]

37. Don't worry. Obama is playing chess.

j/k

[Political Heretic]

43. Yes but for which side?

[omega minimo]

48. It's good to be King

:hide:

[harun]

92. I hope we find out this year which side.

[Honeycombe8]

50. Actually, Medicare is a "public option" competing with private insurers. It's not a single payer

in the pure sense of the term, as some use it here and in the media.

[Honeycombe8]

52. Obama is a proponent of the "public option" (which is like Medicare). Sounds good.

No problem with continuing to have ins. cos. competing, that I see. As long as there is a public option.

[slipslidingaway]

57. Choice is great when you have unlimited money to spend...

unfortunately I think the balance sheet of the US is not in the greatest shape.

Tax dollars will be used to purchase private insurance.

:crazy:

Someone once said the best thing about being wealthy is that it allows you to make mistakes, I do no think we have that luxury.

[Honeycombe8]

61. I see. Well, I knew we wouldn't knock out private insurance. He TOLD us that during

the campaign. As did Hillary.

It's just too costly and doesn't have a chance in hell of getting through Congress. Just adding Part D to Medicare cost over $1 Trillion dollars. Imagine what it would cost to change an entire system.

No way that would happen.

But I thought a good, sturdy public option would be a good start. Who knows? Private insurance might wither away on the vine, if it were competing with public insurance. At the least, its prices would decline.

But I've just seen a recap of the proposed plan in another post. I am hugely disappointed and much upset. The so-called "public option" doesn't look like much of a public option.

[slipslidingaway]

63. Now would have been the perfect time to try and revamp the system

imagine if P. Obama explained that health care insurers provide NO value to HC and that with the economic crisis, and spending on unnecessary invasions, that we no longer have the luxury of choice.

The opening was there, he could have blamed a large part of the deficit on Bush, 4+ Trillion dollars, and worked on rallying the support of the people. There are so many things he could have done and said if he had the political will.

People in Congress would listen if enough people got behind Obama and made their voices heard, instead he opened the HC reform summit by excluding people who supported the most cost effective system, at a time when we need it the most.

:crazy:

From what I have read we are now going to add another layer, Gateways or whatever, that will need to be dismantled and could also provide opportunity for corruption.

I hope the final bill is strong, otherwise each group will be competing on their own instead of together.

[MasonJar]

53. Obama is not pushing single payer in any way. Obviously he knows

it will not be passed without his strong involvement. He can sit back and watch a pathetic bill pass and then claim a personal victory for overhauling health care. What such a bill will actually do is set back reform for years. It is similar to his bailout of the rich on Wall Street and Bankers Row. I have not yet heard of any regulation at all, much less effective, long term CHANGE regulation. Read William Greider at The Nation on the latter. Obama no longer shows me much; he has not provided change. He had better find a new slogan for 2012.

[TheKentuckian]

71. Accountability and holding the feet to the fire from time to time is not only fair game but

right and necessary but holding people accountable for stuff they DIDN'T run on as well is busting the shit out of the envelope.

He didn't run on it and the votes are in no way there. Counting off 59 or 60 folks with a (D) next to their name does not mean that we have the votes in any area. I think the people that are the proudest of "not doing lockstep" have the tendency to have the highest expectation of lockstep and this is a new stretch to be upset with your candidate for not doing what he ran on.

I'm a single payer guy too, but I can't imagine where we get 50 votes for it. We'll have to hammer away with every ounce we have to get a substantive public option and that would probably require a vote by Biden and the wind at our back. Instead, we have people falling off the wagon and raising ten kinds of hell because they want to go to Heaven but are being told that if we try real hard maybe we can do Hawaii. Nobody promised Heaven just drinks on the beach.

[stevenleser]

72. Bingo, best post in this whole discussion.

1. Imagine how this would play if Obama campaigned on one health plan and enacted (or tried to enact) another one. The Rethuglicans would have a real issue to raise of campaign bait and switch.

2. As you noted, the fight is now about whether a public option will be included and the outcome is in doubt. People worrying about SPHC would be well advised to concentrate on this particular battle. This is from where single payer will eventually come.


I am not strictly a single payer advocate although I once was. I am a fan of France's dual tier system although some would argue that it is a vague form of a single payer system. But the fight we have is the fight that we have.

[TheKentuckian]

74. I worry about eventual stagnation of new technologies and techniques under any single source.

I don't much believe in magic bullets, I have no illusions that there will not be some (especially unforeseen) legitimate downsides from single payer as I see it, especially over time.

Still, single payer is just the opposite end of the spectrum is our completely untenable status quo. This system is collapsing like a black hole and dragging everyone into its gravity well. At this time we have to find some way to take the stress off of both individuals and companies while staunching the financial bleeding the best we can if we want any real hopes of doing much of anything or indeed surviving as a civilization over the next 2-3 generations.
Single payer would have some substantial savings from being on the same page, eliminating the profits, and of course ultimate bargaining power (which is what I think the Republicans are actually most against) along with getting everyone under the roof.

I've been advocating public option because
1. It is in play.
2. The fight is winnable (though tough)
3. I like to err towards giving people a choice in all government policy, if it is at all reasonable to accommodate.
4. I want people to make that conscience, clear eyed, and pragmatic decision to take the government option, it is antidote for this Reaganisim/"government is the problem" bullshit.
5. It would be beyond great to see "the free market"/"consumer choice" paddle Republican's ass redder than the average Palin rally participant.
6. The outside chance the we cobble out something new, different, and better for us than what others have set up around the globe.

[redqueen]

80. Oh so very well said.

Thank you!

[Vidar]

78. Good find. Recommended.

[Freddie Stubbs]

81. Apperently he has become better educated on the subject and now favors allowing people to keep their

employee-paid health plans.

[HopeOverFear]

83. Wrong!!!!!!!!! He's actually owned by the healthcare industry

:sarcasm:

[avaistheone1]

84. Under single payer people can keep their employer plan if they choose to do so.

[Freddie Stubbs]

86. Apperently you do not know what single payer is

Single payer, by definition, means that there is only one entity paying for healthcare.

[mkultra]

94. He didnt run on it and he doesnt support it. likely you wont get it.

So i guess you better buckle up. There is far more support for a public option than a single payer system.