Dean Supporters... if you had to pick between Kerry and Clark

[TLM]

Poll question: Dean Supporters... if you had to pick between Kerry and Clark

Which one would you pick?

[dobak]

1. Does that include me?

I support Dean, but support Clark more.

[TLM]

6. Nope, really just asking Dean folks.

I'd go Kerry.

[Egnever]

2. Clark

Only because kerry has made such an ass of himself in this campaign. If we could go back toi before his campaign of self destruction though I would pick him in a second over clark. Of the two he is definately the best on paper.

[dajabr]

3. Kerry(nt)

[many a good man]

4. "Simon Says" did it for me

I really lost a lot of respect for Kerry over that remark. It was selfish, irresponsible, and hurts the Democratic party.

The Democratic party must stand up for multilateralism, cooperation, and respect for international law. Over 70% of Americans supported going through the UN to pressure Iraq. Its a top issue we can hammer the neo-cons with. Kerry's selfish opportunistic jab at Dean undercuts our position here.

The United States CAN lead the UN to aggressively fight and control terrorism and proliferation by showing moral leadership. We have to gradually steer our military away from expensive weapons systems designed to fight state-vs.-state types of wars. The action in the 21st century will be primarily against non-state actors. It'll take sophisticated intelligence and police-type tactics, not bombs and tanks to succeed. Military expenditures need to redirected to domestic security-first responders, medicine, customs agents, etc. Part of the enormous military budget should also go to developing alternative fuel sources.

Kerry knows this; he's said as much. IMHO it was another awkward attempt to resuscitate his floundering campaign. In his desperation he unwittingly dealt the whole party a body blow.

Note to Kerry supporters: Sorry. I just had to get this off my chest.

[IndianaGreen]

5. Clark did not vote for IWR

and Clark has been an attack dog on Bush, and not a Bush appeaser.

[Closer]

7. Definitely Kerry.

He's at least a Democrat!

[IndianaGreen]

8. Kerry voted to give Bush a blank check for war, and voted for PATRIOT

Wes Clark did neither of those things!

Now, you tell me who is the real Democrat?

[TLM]

17. Yeah wes Clark went to a republican fundraiser...

and said reagan was a truly great leader whom he admired.


Kerry made some bad votes and sided with republicans in the last few years, true, but he does have a long and established record of democratic service and policy.

Kerry rides the fence a lot, but he's never been a defense contractor lobbyist like Clark has. Kerry has never said he thinks it is OK to bomb journalists.


If CLark had a few years in the senate or as a gov to show a good record of democratic positions, I would probably consider him.

But without a record to stand on and with the SOA stuff, the NED stuff, the CSIS stuff, the defense lobbyist stuff, the crap in kosovo, that repuke fundraiser stuff, the not saying he was a dem until he declared crap... it is just too much for me to pick Clark.

[manfriend]

9. Kerry or Clark?

>The Democratic party must stand up for multilateralism, cooperation, and respect for international law.

>Its a top issue we can hammer the neo-cons with.

The only problem with "hammering" at this point is that Bill Clinton went into Kosovo, with Clark leading the charge, without the UN. Russia threatened to veto any resolution on Kosovo that would lead to military intervention. And that cluster fuck in Mogadishu was behind the UN's back, too.

I think Dean needs to back off this point, and Clark certainly needs to give it a rest.

>Americans supported going through the UN to pressure Iraq.

No, that's not true:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/03/10/opinion/polls/main543446.shtml

Most Americans also are willing to take military action without a specific United Nations approval of the use of force against Iraq. Less than a third believe the President should have waited for United Nations approval.


I've seen lots of polls showing most Americans have no faith in the UN. It doesn't help that most members of the UN are dictatorships, like 2/3 of them.

We've got to be careful here. Any overt sgnaling that we're ready to allow the UN to decide the fate of the nation would put a democrat candidate on shaky ground on national defense.

Kerry, Gephardt, and Lieberman are the only candidates that are strong on national defense. With the economy picking up that will be the deciding factor in this race.

[many a good man]

21. Americans support for UN is high

>I've seen lots of polls showing most Americans have no faith in the UN.

I think you're wrong there. Again it mostly depends on how the question is asked. Denigrating the UN has been a right wing talking point for years. Despite that, you can find plenty of polls that clearly show Americans strongly support the UN. Check out this poll by the highly respected PIPA taken in January 2003: http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/IraqUNinspec/QuestJan03.pdf

Q8. There has been some discussion about whether the US should use its troops to invade Iraq
and overthrow the government of Saddam Hussein. Which of the following positions is closest to
yours?
The US should only invade Iraq with
UN approval and the support of its allies .......................55%
The US should invade Iraq even if we have
to go it alone. .............................................................. 28
The US should not invade Iraq. .................................... 14
(No answer) ..................................................................3

Q12. Do you think that for the US to invade Iraq at this point, it is necessary or not necessary to
get approval from the UN Security Council?
Necessary to get approval..................67%
Not necessary to get approval............ 29
(No answer) ......................................5

Of course, Americans will always want to reserve to themselves the right to go it alone if necessary. This is also Clark's and Dean's position. In both these questions, less than 30% want to ignore the UN. Check out this four year old State Department poll that shows 70% of Americans have a favorable view of the UN: http://usinfo.state.gov/topical/pol/usandun/unpoll.htm

I think the case can easily be made that international cooperation is absolutely necessary to combat global terror. This can only be accomplished by strengthening international institutions. An aggressively unilateral approach that disparages these institutions will not put the US in a position where it can lead them.

Taking the "Simon Says" philosopy will only appeal to the 30% of aggressive nationalists who aren't going to vote Democratic any way...

[LSdemocrat]

10. Clark

I find him very admirable. He's my second choice. My only complaint with him is his total lack of domestic policy and political experience.

Kerry, on the other hand, well, let's put it this way: Of all the candidates, except MAYBE Lieberman, I find Kerry the most annoying to listen to. He just sounds completely pretentious and phony to me. To me, he comes across sounding that he somehow feels entitled to be the nominee.

[Hawkeye-X]

11. Neither.

I will just sit at home. Plus, both candidates lack the executive experience for the job. Dean has proven experience.

[KaraokeKarlton]

12. Today I wouldn't vote for either one of them

I don't like Kerry's policies and I am disgusted with his behavior on top of that. He's a no go.

As for Clark, I don't actually dislike him although there is something shifty about him that I can't put my finger on, so there's a lack of trust. Also, many of his supporters here have turned me off so badly to the guy that I can't even stomach his voice or face lately. I change the channel the second he comes on. I'm not even open to learning more about him because some of his supporters here are the nastiest most hateful things I have ever seen in my lifetime. I've tried not to feel that way, but when someone posts some vile comment with a huge picture of Clark right below it I associate the hate with the candidate.

I'd stay home.

[LuminousX]

13. Kerry

Although he is being a complete dick currently, his history gives him a second chance in my book.

[Northwind]

14. Kerry

Better a corrupt Wasington insider than a Republican General.

[DFLforever]

15. I would lean toward Kerry even though I don't much like him

and deplore his IWR vote and subsequent machinations on the war.

Call me old-fashioned but I like a president to have some political and electoral experience... I don't think ordering people around and promotion is an adequate substitute.

Also, I prefer a Democrat I know something about, who has a record of sorts. All I know politically about Clark is what he himself says.

Clark is a very intelligent, attractive man and capable military officer but I don't see those qualities as sufficient for the presidency.

[unfrigginreal]

16. I'm having more trouble than I thought I would in voting for either one

I'm not going to vote in this poll because I don't have to...if one of them gets the nomination, they'll get my vote, but my loyalty to the party will cease as of that moment.

[burning bush]

18. Clark, without a doubt

Clark and Dean are the nontraditional candidates this cycle, and I'm convinved that a traditional candidate will suffer a horrible loss against Bush.

Dean is my #1, Clark my #2.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

19. As the "anti-IraqWar" candidate it's hard to imagine Dean

picking Kerry. I'm a Dean supporter despite some of his centrist policies. If he was to select pro-war Kerry, it would be enough to send me to the Greens.

Kerry deserves nothing but well deserved contempt after his vote for the IWR.

[JVS]

20. I doubt that Dean supporters will have to pick between those two

[ulysses]

22. six of one...

Probably Kerry, although I didn't vote in the poll.

[MGKrebs]

23. I don't.

It's too hypothetical for me. IF the circumstances changed so much that I couldn't support Dean, the landscape would be so different that speculating on alternatives is beyond my feeble powers.

[Padraig18]

24. Clark

For a multitude of reasons best left unsaid, in the spirit of the new civility here.

[Demobrat]

25. Kerry, mostly because

he opted out of the federal matching funds. I don't believe that anybody who won't be able to fight back against W over the summer has a chance, which leaves only Dean and Kerry. It's not a pleasant choice, though. Kerry doesn't know why he voted for the war, and Rove will make mincemeat out of Clark's military record, so let's hope it doesn't come to that.