Eric Holder just said he'll allow the evidence of torture to lead him where it may

[EraOfResponsibility]

but that he doesn't want to "criminalize policy differences" whatever that means.

[Jackpine Radical]

1. With any luck, it means he's trying not to scare his potential indictees

into fleeing the country.

[EraOfResponsibility]

2. makes sense n/t

[Jackpine Radical]

3. He just said waterboarding is torture.

By implication, prosecuting people for authorizing or conducting waterboarding would not constitute "criminalizing a policy difference.>

[Occam Bandage]

4. What he means is this:

He will investigate evidence of torture. He will treat it as a criminal act if torture was commissioned despite knowledge that it would violate US law. If, however, torture was commissioned due to an overreaching of policy not intended to violate any law, he would not treat it as criminal so as not to lead to a precedent of incoming administrations prosecuting over every difference in the validity of policy.

[wmbrew0206]

6. Read Jack Goldsmith's "Terror Presidency" and you'll see that "torture"

is in this case a policy difference.

FYI, Jack Goldsmith was the Legal Council to the AG that repealed the decision by the previous LC to the AG on "Torture Memos." He was hired by Harvard Law after leaving justice.

[Occam Bandage]

7. Everything I've read from this administration suggests to me

a pack of delusional yet very intelligent people following "unitary" precepts that most people would find abhorrent, but which indeed constitute a comprehensive and cohesive legal theory. I believe this theory led to abuses, and was not created as an ad-hoc way to justify abuses, and as such I believe that Holder will not prosecute, as this would constitute a policy difference.

[wmbrew0206]

8. I think you would find the "Terror Presidency" an interesting read.

It discusses who was where when 9-11 happened and how the decision about what is "torture" was decided and by who. It also gets into how subsequent opinions differed greatly from the original ones.

[wmbrew0206]

5. That means "Don't hold your breath for any indictments against Bush officials"

A lot of people here need to come to grips with reality and see that the Obama Administration is signaling that they are not going to go after Bush officials.

This has happened twice now: Obama on "This Week" talking about looking forward and Holder saying he doesn't want to "Criminalize policy differences."

Why are they doing this? Several reasons:

1. The are other pressing matters that are more important to Americans: the economy and two wars just to start with.
2. Hearings and investigations will just cause partisan infighting that will slow down the things Obama wants to get done.
3. It sets a very bad precedent. Eventually a republican will win the White House and then he'll precede to investigate and charge from Democratic executive officials for anything they can find.

[Thrill]

10. If they were planning to do it. Do you really think they would mention it before they take office?

I'll wait and see.

[wmbrew0206]

15. If they were planning on doing it, then you wouldn't have comments

like I listed above.

Everyone is going to read into Obama's and Holder's comments what they want to. The reason I think the Obama administration is signaling that they aren't going after Bush officials is listed above.

The majority of Americans want the stimulus passed, the economy fixed, and the Iraq war to end. They care a whole lot more about those things then whether KSM was waterboarded and holding those people responsible for it accountable. Congress can only do so much at once and investigations of Bush officials is WAY down on that list.

[Thrill]

16. I think they left the door open. You certainly wouldn't say you're going to do it

Or Bush would just issue blank pardons

[wmbrew0206]

17. You don't think he is not doing that already?

I can almost guarantee that any member of the Bush Administration that Holder as the AG might even consider going after will have a full blank pardon sitting in a safe somewhere.

The Obama Administration knows that too.

I would not put it past these guys to let Congress and the AG spend a lot of time and money to collect evidence, bring charges, and then go to court and during closing arguments, their lawyer says "Oh by the way, you might want to look at this POTUS Pardon. Have a nice day." and then they walk out of the court room scott free.

[wmbrew0206]

18. Also, which do you think is more important to Obama:

Getting his policies set in motion or going after Bush Officials? You can do both at the same time.

[EraOfResponsibility]

14. I wouldn't go that far

I know it's difficult to have hope that they will, because you're afraid of being dissapointed. (I must admit this is how I feel).

[Kber]

9. Well, I HOPE it means that he'll bring charges against the developers of torutre policy

but not the enactors?

[MarjorieG]

11. Means we may want prosecution at top, but do we also want 4 yrs of lower level getting.lawyered up,

only to lose to the executives getting to do what they want. I know the fine points of Nuremberg and Geneva, but investigation, Obama showing different way, educating the public-along with with curing health and economic crises-may be better track.

Obama was a constitutional lawyer so he gets all of it, but many critics (Turley) are also ivory towered purists who don't see the different, bigger picture. Justice-only arguments are also emotionally charged and simple to tout.

There's a reason why there wasn't more public outcry, as there should have been. Civics anyone?

(lever to level-I'm non-stop voting reform)

[SuperTrouper]

12. Bad news for Cheney, Rumsfeld and Bush

[TheKentuckian]

13. It should mean that the pardon pen will be in overdrive through 11:59 Tuesday

If I was an evil and corrupt soon to be ex-President, that's what I'd be doing today.

[blendermax]

19. Holder defended death squads in Columbia

color me skeptical. his record on human rights is less than impressive.

[TheKentuckian]

20. Some folks see America as a completely seperate deal

we all may do it from time to time but there are lots of people that will literally let any atrocities slide but actually get on the righ page as far as the USA is concerned. Its not uncommon, in fact it may be the prevailing general view here.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[uponit7771]

22. Good cop bad cop being played here, Obama's not going to touch this but others can attack at will...

...that's a smart strategy if enacted which would fit Obama's MO.

[changemonger]

23. don't hold your breath.

There won't be any prosecution of the Bush administration.