We can never overcome hate with hate.

[Danger Mouse]

Remember that. The power of hate cannot be defeated by hate in turn.
Hate is defeated with time, with patience, with education, and with exposure.

TIME - to show people how hate hurts people, and force them to reconcile their humanity with their hatred. Many people cannot be cured, but many people can be.

PATIENCE - to confront one of the uglier aspects of human nature. It's not easy. It's never easy.

EDUCATION - teach people about the folk they are hurting. Help them learn. Ignorance is the biggest cause of hate...ignorance and fear. By educating people, you lessen their ignorance, and with less ignorance comes less fear. This also takes TIME and PATIENCE.

EXPOSURE - push the ugliness out into the light for all to see. Hate thrives on darkness, in the light it withers and decays. Hate never dies completely, but gradually it no longer becomes acceptable.

Anger and hurt must NOT give way to hatred. I'm not saying that love is the solution either, but hate most definitely is not. That being said, there are no easy answers.

[derby378]

1. Not to be the wet blanket...

...but how the hell do you explain the rebirth of the Nazis right here in America?

[Danger Mouse]

2. Hate never dies completely.

You can beat it to a certain degree, but the fight is never truly over.

[Cha]

39. It's too true..sounds like

you and Obama are on the same page. I agree with a poster upthread who says "too much power is being given to warren."

[FreakinDJ]

5. Long before Prop 8 was ever thought of

and those of "Color" have learned jumping up and down pounding your fist, acting like a spoiled child does not work

[Danger Mouse]

6. "Acting like a spoiled child"...how the hell does that help the discussion?

That's a deeply offensive thing to say.

[FreakinDJ]

10. How does acting like a "Spoiled Child" help your cause

all the GLBT community has accomplished here at DU with their tireless rant is an overly enthusiastic use of the "Ignore" button.

Try common ground and logical reasoning

[RandomKoolzip]

15. Right, because logic and reason are the exclusive province of straight people.

[Danger Mouse]

17. It's a freakin discussion board, we have flamewars over stupid meaningless shit on a constant basis.

So how do you think ANYBODY will react to a serious issue like this? It leads to a complete meltdown. This isn't the fault of anyone, it's just how it is.

[yardwork]

20. "Long before Prop 8 was ever heard of" - do you have any idea what you're talking about?

[Danger Mouse]

21. I doubt it.

:P

[Captain Hilts]

3. Sorry, Warren condemned most people I know to Hell, so I feel okay hating him. nt

[Danger Mouse]

4. Warren isn't what I'm talking about. He's likely beyond help.

But many of his followers are reachable and teachable.

[tabasco]

16. Hell doesn't exist.

Just a fairy tale.

Fairy tales control how you live your life?

[Danger Mouse]

19. I don't believe in Hell either, but I still understand how hurtful it is...

to tell anybody you think they deserve to be tortured for eternity just because of how they are.

[totodeinhere]

18. Warren is not God. He doesn't have the wherewithal to condemn anyone to hell, period.

But I agree with the OP. Hate is very destructive no matter where it comes from. There is way too much hate coming from the religious right. That's for sure. But there is a lot of hate at DU as well.

[Captain Hilts]

48. Oh, okay, we should accommodate hate mongers. nt

[JuniperLea]

32. IMHO, you've given him far too much power... eom

[Captain Hilts]

42. I don't believe in hell, it's the sentiment that counts here. nt

[Forkboy]

7. Not so sure about that. If nothing else, my hate may overcome someone else's.

;)

[Danger Mouse]

8. Hate leads to the Dark Side. Consumed your father, it did.

[Forkboy]

12. LOL

I love DU. :)

[Clio the Leo]

9. Speak to it cupcake!!! NT

[firedupdem]

11. Nice Post Elrond. n/t

[JohnnyLib2]

13. The high road and the hard road--

good post.

[redqueen]

14. I agree with you Elrond.

I think we will all feel it from time to time, but we can refuse to let it take root and nurture it.

[Danger Mouse]

22. Hey red...

hope you are well. :hug:

[yardwork]

23. My spiritual path encourages me never to hate. I try not to hate anybody.

I don't hate George W. Bush (that one is a constant trial). I may, possibly, in my heart, hate Dick Cheney but I realize that this means I've failed and I need to work on that.

This thread may be well-intentioned but as you see, it has already attracted at least one disruptor. The intent of your OP seems to be to reprove and reproach gay folks from "hating," when many of us are not hating at all.

We're fighting for our rights and all human rights but we're not hating.

[Danger Mouse]

25. It's not a reproach.

And it's not just about gays.
It's about liberals in general...there's no question that our enemies hate us.
What we do about it is important.
EDIT: And that disruptor can go eff himself.

[yardwork]

28. I agree with your point, obviously. But the disruptors here keep the anger stoked.

Periodically somebody goes off. That's not the same as "hating."

[relayerbob]

24. Thank you. So true!

[bridgit]

26. I don't hate anyone...

[JuniperLea]

27. Ah, yes. The Yin and the Yang of Love and Hate

And the constant battle between judgment and fear of being judged. We would all be far better off if we could all learn to just be. But there's the rub. We have to work with what we have, and try our best to seek balance. We cannot force correct thought any more than we can force correct action. The best that can be expected is that we are able to tread lightly upon the tail of the tiger, and survive to tread another day.

[leftstreet]

29. We must all be loving and forgiving when Warren is caught with a hooker

We must take time to listen to him, be patient with him and let him educate us.







I can't wait til he Testifies!!!111

[Political Tiger]

30. K&R

"Hatred paralyses life; love releases it. Hatred confuses life; love harmonizes it. Hatred darkens life; love illuminates it."
-Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.

[Two Americas]

31. hatred and anger

I don't think that the opposition to the Warren selection is accurately described as being primarily hatred and anger, and I think that describing it as that is a surreptitious way to discredit and diminish the opposition, and those expressing opposition.

I also strongly disagree with your formula for success here, as it strikes me more as surrender than anything else. I am not just blowing hot air. I walked into a group of 300 Warren supporters on Christmas Eve and expressed exactly what I have expressed here, with success. There was no descent into hatred, no hostility, and no backlash. I said things they have never heard, they listened, opposition melted away. There is more stubborn resistance and hostility here among Democrats than there is among Warren supporters.

What we lack is courage, clarity, and a sense of urgency.

So I say we need courage, a sense of urgency, and that we need to speak out strongly and clearly. We need to resist, not embrace, the comforting illusions of "it takes time" and "we need to be patient" and that we should fear being "too radical," or worry about causing a backlash.

All of that sounds nice and reassuring, so reasonable, but I think it is all an excuse for compromising and for avoiding standing up for what is right.

[bettyellen]

46. BRAVO!! this hatin in righteous anger is what needs to stop- it should be supported here,

[Balderdash]

49. Well said. nt

[Marrah_G]

33. Is that how other groups gained equality?

By waiting patiently, educating quietly, exposing ugliness?

After a while people just stopped discriminating, the laws were changed with much celebration by all.............

This is how most groups find equality...

By speaking softly, educating patiently and making sure to never offend their superiors lest they anger someone.

Is that what you are saying?

[JohnnyLib2]

36. I don't see "quiet" in the OP .

I see

"FORCE them to reconcile their humanity with their hatred."

"CONFRONT one of the uglier aspects of human nature"

"PUSH the ugliness out into the light"

That leaves plenty of room for making (useful) noise.

This seems like advice that MLK might give.

[Danger Mouse]

37. Nowhere did I say speak softly or quietly.

I'm all for being loud, forceful, and righteous, but tempering that righteousness with the patience that a long struggle requires.

[plantwomyn]

40. When I was in my mid twenties

I still had patience for my oppressors. To tell you the truth, I just tried to stay away, live my life, work and play. I have been OUT to my family and every employer I have worked for over 35 years. It filled my heart when I saw many an African American with tears in their eyes as the listened to Obama's Grant Park speech. I know what it feels like to have a dream that you will some day be accepted a full citizen in your own country. I shed tears myself.
But "tempering that righteousness with the patience that a long struggle requires" doesn't cut it for me anymore. I want to see my mom cry at my wedding. In my old age I'm running out of patience.

[Danger Mouse]

44. Then what can you do?

Honest question.

[plantwomyn]

54. Do what I have been doing all my life.

Live OUT and PROUD. Demand equal citizenship. And by example, change the minds of anyone I meet or come in contact with. I know that codifying my rights will not be the end of it, just as the Civil Rights Act was only the starting point of real "civil rights". My family and my partner and I are the ones that they talk about when the say "I have gay freinds". We're missionaries for GAY.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

34. Education is a key

when people begin to learn about another, another culture, etc, then it is easier for them to see the humanity in the "other. May we quietly continue to educate people so they abandon their prejudices and false notions.

[skepticscott]

50. If only it were that easy

How long in the history of this country did it take for people with deep-seeded prejudices against blacks to abandon them, to the point where racial discrimination was no more? The answer is that it never happened. Slavery had to be ended by force and Jim Crow had to be ended by force. If not for the righteous anger of decent people, and their unwillingness to wait patiently for all of the Neanderthals to evolve, we would still not be rid of those institutions. Despite centuries of learning about one another, there are still uncounted millions of people in this country who would eagerly embrace the public exercise of discrimination, if laws imposed against their will didn't (for the most part) prevent them. How many more decades or centuries would you ask blacks in this country to wait before prejudice and bigotry simply faded away on their own? How much patience would you ask them to show in order to be able live their lives with dignity and equality?

[NYC_SKP]

35. Recommended.

Your message is a timeless one, one universally promoted among the better woman and men throughout history.

Sadly, it is lost on many who chose another path.

And the other path is wasted energy, doubled; negativity breeds more negativity AND it's energy unused in the more productive and positive way.

Best Holiday wishes to you and yours, Elrond Hubbard! :toast:

[TexasObserver]

38. Bombing hate into unconditional surrender is not HATE.

WWII, for example.

Fighting racism was as much the riots of the 60s as the peaceful demonstrations. Sometimes you have to put some muscle into it.

[Danger Mouse]

43. I do not advocate nor support violent action.

[skepticscott]

53. So who has?

Where in all this orgy of hatred you claim has possessed DU have people been advocating violence or physical harm towards those we oppose? Where has anyone even proposed enshrining our anger into laws that would restrict the rights and freedoms of others? Do you find that on this site, or is there really a difference between their passion and ours?

[AZBlue]

41. K&R

[IsItJustMe]

45. Every time hate is used against someone you disagree with, a destructive counter balance is created.

When you study history, it is always people who practice some form of non violent resistance who make lasting positive changes in this world. I am talking about people like MLK, Nelson Mandella, and Magandi.

[WyoHiker]

47. AMEN! AMEN!! AMEN!!!

Sadly, this might also mean we need to lay off of some great comedy.

[DevonRex]

51. Great post Elrond. K&R

[Grateful for Hope]

52. K&R!

Great post!