I convinced a 20 year old marine not to vote for Bush yesterday

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

Yesterday I was part of the entertainment at a base for 9/11 celebrations. Over the course of the day, I befriended this marine, a very young guy from Detroit. The conversation turned to the war and whether he would be going. He said he was hearing everything from he would be going to Iraq to possibly Iran and that North Korea wasn't out of the question either.

His family were immigrants. His reason for enlisting was that he loved America. When it turned to presidential politics, he said he wasn't very political but that he and all his fellow grunts were OOH RAH Bush. I asked why? He stated it was because they got their raise and that young guys were coming back from Iraq, and were able to buy the SUV's and the wheels etc since they can virtually save every penny they make while they are over there. I asked "What about those coming back without eyes or legs? What do THEY spend all that money on."

I informed him that I had done many other events on base and that his highest command was more leaning toward Kerry and were NOT happy about the way this war was going. (During the course of the day, I had spoken to a high ranking officer's wife that echoed this sentiment..her husband has been there for 18 months)

I ticked down the reasons this war was wrong one by one, all the time respecting that he MAY have to go and that I was not trying to ruin his morale and that I respected the fact that he was willing to place his life on the line and that alone meant whatever he chose, I had to respect.

By the time I got done...he was thinking and thinking hard. He came back at the end of the gig with a 6 pack and we sat on the shore drinking it and continuing our discussion. By the end of the 6 pack, he was clear he would not be voting for Bush.

This was a sharp young guy who will no doubt have other conversations and will look up the facts I presented him with. I explained that why I felt Kerry was necessary was that the coalition that Bush claims he is putting together is falling apart...they really didn't supply much in the way of troops, we can't fight in Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, and North Korea at the same time and expect to win OR even prevail. That it was time that we had a leader that was not hated by the world, that the Abu Graib incident was the worst embarrassment to America in that if HE were captured there USED to be a rule of law that governed how he SHOULD be treated (he confirmed he had been extensively trained on the Geneva convention rules) and that the preemptive war doctrine totally UNDERMINED our security.

It was a great conversation....I am sure it will ripple...more importantly I befriended this guy...I didn't knock what he believed...I simply got him to question what he believed he knew.

[acmavm]

1. Way to go. Congratulations, one more for the good guys.

.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

2. Good job

opening people's eyes isn't an easy job, but it's very worthwhile!

Way to go...

[Vincardog]

10. I did the same with a Sheepel

I was at TSC and a salesman saw my Kerry Button. He mentioned he was for the Shrub. I asked Why? He opined that W was a good Christian. I suggested that W was not in fact a Good Christian as evidenced by the fact that W constantly said God Was on His side. A Good Christian would try verry hard to be on Gods side. I mentioned W's world view ou Imperial America and Preemptive assault on anyone who might be an obstical to this desires. I suggested that if he wanted to support a Fascist Dictatorship headed by W that was fine but not to derss it up as Christian values. He looked a little confused. Evidently no one had tried to burst his bubble before. I saw him a week later and he smiled and showed me a Kerry button hidden inside this vest.

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. Good job

and you are right you just therw a stone and by the way, he is young and has not been deployed, people who have been deployed do not see thngs the sanme way

[blondeatlast]

4. Thanks.

And thanks to unnamed Marine for his service.

[Indiana_Dem]

5. Whoa. That would be a difficult thing to do

to try and teach someone who is going to go and fight for this country for their life. I mean give a 20-year-old a crash course on politics? I don't think I could do it especially if they were getting ready to go somewhere and fight. But you made a good point to him by questioning how we are going to fight wars on all fronts and win. You must've done a good job. I wouldn't have been able to do such a good job for fear of ruining his psyche and then being stuck in something he can't get out of.

[Vincardog]

12. Getty up

I worked with Marines for five years. They can actually hold a thought in their head. Showing them the demented views of their CIC will not have any bad effect on moral. They are better armed with the truth than marching in armed only with Bu$hCO lies.

[Indiana_Dem]

14. This is true, they need the truth.

I guess I get too hung up on the emotional side I may hurt. I think that just comes with being a female!

[Goldom]

6. There's a guy in my mother's office..

got back from Iraq several months ago.. only has just been able to even speak to anyone. Totally PTSD. He just got called back to active duty. And he's still voting for Bush.

what will it take to end this insanity...

[GingerSnaps]

21. Brainwashing

Ask him if they have sessions on the base where they tell the soldiers to vote for Bush.

My cousin is in the Navy and he said that he can't talk about what goes on because he had to sign a document stating that he would be charged with treason if he did speak out. He did mention to my Aunt that everyone is being encouraged well pressured into voting for Bush.

[delete_bush]

7. Yes!!!

And as you say, even greater is the ripple effect. He's got cred with his fellow marines, they'll at least listen.

I've found that in my admittedly few conversations with chimpco supporters/leaners that my initial approach as a Dem committed to replacing the current regime is not nearly as effective as when I present myself as an independent who, after careful consideration of the issues, supports Kerry.

In the former case, most want to argue with you and focus on the trivial RW talking points that go nowhere and just get worked up emotionally.

In the latter they open up more, engage in conversation, and whether or not their minds are changed they leave with a better understanding of the real issues.

Good for you!

[mirandaod]

8. Thank you.

You did it the right way, taking the time to listen and befriend him. You spoke honestly and sanely, and it worked!

I'm going to learn a lesson from you and stop being so nasty.

[Longhorn]

9. My son is also a 20-year-old Marine

who was just sent to Japan on a two-year assignment. He was never planning to vote for Bush* but after he saw F9/11, he went to Michael Moore's site and signed the pledge to register five others to vote. He's taken the pledge seriously and talks to other Marines about it all the time.

What he found out is that most of them say they're voting for Bush*. When he talks to them about Bush* going AWOL during Vietnam, they've never even heard of it! Not that they don't believe it -- they didn't even know it was an issue. He said when he tells them more about it, they usually say they're not going to vote at all. Being a good citizen that he is, he tells them that they should vote, that they should just be informed first.

A lot of these Marines are young and finishing their stints in Japan so they just aren't up on politics like they might be if they were home.

I think you took the right approach to just provide information and reasoning but not a full-frontal attack! Congratulations and thanks! :yourock:

[GingerSnaps]

11. Can you post some pictures I would love to see them

What did he look like and what area were you in?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

13. NO...and why are you asking the other two questions?

Want his rank and serial number too?

[GingerSnaps]

15. Because I would love to see pictures of our guys in a positive light

The media doesn't show anything positive and your event sounded positive.

Why are you so defensive over something so wonderful that happened in your life?

I never see USO pictures or any other positive pictures of our guys and it might help some of the families cope with what is going on in IRAQ.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

17. Sorry the question "What AREA was I in"

got me concerned since marines in barracks live in what are called AREAS. I wouldn't jeopardize his identity or my own as I wouldn't want any ill will to come from him and for the record, I took no pictures...this was an on base event and not USO related...I am not defensive, I am PROTECTIVE.

[GingerSnaps]

20. It's amazing that you can do something like that

I mean with Bush in office and our rights being taken away from us and all.

I commend you on being able to go into restricted areas without getting harassed by our government.

Your very brave I wouldn't take the chance at all.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

16. To all who replied, funny thing is every marine knows Smedley Butler

but cannot tell you that his most famous speech was WAR IS A RACKET. I gave this guy a copy of it last night. He was blown away...didn't get a copy of that while he was in training.

[mitchum]

18. Good work, nsma!

[oasis]

19. The light finally went off in his head. I hope it stays on.

:thumbsup:

[jonnyblitz]

22. I chat online with a 28 or so year old army captain

who is, right now, around the Tikrit area and who gets online on occasion with some funky satellite/internet hookup connection.( We have been chatting since way before he was sent to Iraq, he is 'don't ask don't tell"shhhhhh) We decided not to get into many political discussions once he was there because he needs to believe he is doing good over there for his sanity and for the sanity of the enlisted guys he has underneath him. I told him I have VERY STRONG views about the whole situation but NO WAY am I going to discuss them until he gets back home or out of there. He has been a Kerry supporter forever but believes Bush doesn't deserve to get trashed as much as people trash him (OOOOH I HAVE A HARD TIME KEEPING MY MOUTH SHUT). Lately I have been so wierded out about how things have been going that when I see him pop up on my yahoo messenger I remain invisible because I just can't talk to him right now. I haven't been right since my few days in NYC when all the GOP creeps were there. :(

I can't wait to read Michael Moore's book that is supposedly all letters from military guys responding to Fahrenheit 9-11.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

23. This kid hadn't seen it but said a couple of his friends went and walked

out because they felt Moore was very anti- military...I told him to check it out for himself and that the recruiters in the film didn't do themselves any favors.

[Misunderestimator]

24. What to GO, Baby!!!

Now, I'll take some of those diplomacy lessons... :)

[Rowdyboy]

25. Damn, you make me proud to be a Democrat.....

You know how to treat people to help them see the truth without cramming it down their throats or belittling them-that's a rare quality.