I doubt the Kitty Kelley book will be a factor in defeating Bush

[WI_DEM]

I don't doubt that many of the things Kitty writes about are accurate, but I doubt this book will be a major factor in defeating Bush. I think some voters actually will be turned off by it being released only weeks before the election and may even blame the democrats for it.

But my major reason for thinking it will not be a huge factor is that there have been countless books on John F. Kennedy which allege:
1. That his father was a bootlegger who made his fortune dishonestly.
2. That JFK stole the 1960 election thanks to Mayor Daley.
3. That JFK and Jackie both used illegal drugs while in the White House.
4. That JFK had countless affairs with women, including the girlfriend of the gangster Sam Giacana.
5. That JFK had hookers in the White House.
6. That JFK paid for abortions for some of his girl friends.
7. That JFK and RFK were somehow involved in Marilyn Monroe's death.

Despite all of these allegations who continues to head the list of favorite US president? JFK.

Americans like gossip, but they tend to discount it or gloss it. We have enough real issues that should defeat W:
1) Lying to involve the USA in a worthless war
2) Diverting attention from the real war on Terrorism
3) Turning the world community against us when we need the world behind us in the war on Terror.
4) Allowing Bin-Ladden to escape and regroup by going into Iraq.
5) The Iraqi prison scandal--both Condi and Rummy knew about this early on.
6) Outsourcing jobs is a good thing
7) First president to preside over a net loss of jobs since Hoover.
8) four million people losing their health benefits since he became president.
9) After seeing the poverty rate decline under Clinton it's rising under Bush.
10) Tax unfairness--the wealthy get the lions share of W's tax cuts.
11) Not funding "Leave No Child Behind"
12) Trying to gut Head Start
13) Raping the environment
14) Haliburton
15) Enron
16) Letting big oil dictate our energy policy
17) Record increase in Medicare premiums
18) A prescription Drug bill which benefits not seniors, but drug companies and insurance companies.

There is much more. If we can't win on these issues--it is doubtful that Kitty Kelley's latest tell-all will do the trick. Though the thought of causing some discomfort for W does please me.

[mirandaod]

1. I agree with you.

I hate tabloid, tell-all articles and books. I probably won't read it. Although, it will be interesting to see if my Republican MIL will read it - she read every expose on the Kennedys and the British royals. I'm thinking of giving her the Kelley book to see if she'll believe it or not. The book may change a few people's minds, who knows?
Still, I'd rather concentrate on the issues, and ignore his private life (which I'm just sure is depraved and disgusting).

[tibbir]

6. I hate tabloid, tell-all articles and books too

but I'm going to enjoy every page of this one.

[21winner]

2. I agree.

IT IS NOT THE BIG SCORE.

[LeighAnn]

3. I disagree. KK has a pretty big fan base

There will be a lot of people reading this book that don't have a primary interest in politics. It should initiate a lot of discussion amongst people who might might not have been looking behind broadcast news for the facts.

This might not create a big dent alone, but couple it with the DVD release of F911 and it might be all over for the Bush Boys.

[demgrrrll]

4. Depends.. The swing voter is more affected by image than by policy

or facts. Image has fueled the numbers Bush has now and if that image is irretrievably tarnished the book may have some effect on the election. I think the release of Fahrenheit 9 11 on October 5 has some potential too.

[BuelahWitch]

34. Yep, Bush's character will take a major hit from this book

All those who think he's such a good Xtian and "straight talking guy" will find out he's just a loser who happened to be born into a rich family. I'm heading over to Hastings as soon as they open Tuesday to get mine for under $18!

[punpirate]

5. Well, there's just one big difference...

... Bush didn't take a bullet in the brain in the run-up to the election season (if he has, we haven't noticed).

[askew]

7. Exactly.

JFK was our youngest, most handsome president cut down in the prime of his life while sitting next to his beautiful wife. Millions of Americans still remember what they were doing when they found out JFK was killed. Also, I wasn't alive when he died, but I have seen images of JFK, Jr. saluting during the funeral and it chokes me up. Emotions play a huge part into why he is among the most popular presidents.

On a side note, I find it really bothers me when people refer to John Kerry as JFK instead of JK. I think its disrepectful, which I guess is stupid. Does this bug anyone else?

[WI_DEM]

10. me too

JFK should be reserved for John F. Kennedy.

If someone named Foster Dawson Reardon became president would we start calling him FDR?

[barb162]

18. I don't think it is disrespectful at all

Tthey have the same initials,so how can it be?

[soothsayer]

8. Every little bit helps. Think of her book as part of a cumulative effect

Nothing wrong with piling on!

[IndianaGreen]

9. Kitty Kelley's book on the Reagans was panned

and it was tabloid trash. To say she is going to write a scholarly piece about the Bush family is ludicrous. She is going to do her usual bullshit hit piece and we are going to eat it up because our hatred for Bush is greater than our capacity for critical thinking.

[Nashyra]

11. On CNN they talked about some of the allegations

and they added "that we have to remind readers that Ms Kelly has never been successfully sued nor has she had to issue a retraction", my jaw dropped when i heard them say that, it was almost an invitation to go out and read the book. Although it might not be a deadly shot to the campaign it will surely open the investigation into why the * did not get his physical. I beleive the book will re open wounds that the press will not be able to stay away from. Also it will inflame that bitch they call amother to finally open her mouth and the venom she spews will be heard by all. I would love to hear what she has to say about "poppy's" girlfriend" Maybe Hilary could tell her how to handle the press.

[IndianaGreen]

12. Kitty Kelley is nothing but trash and fiction!

If you really want to read something that attacks the BFEE and that is based on facts, read Sy Hersh's books and articles.

I am looking forward to reading Hersh's new book Chain of Command, which is a critical and detailed account of the Bush regime's foreign policy from 9/11 to the torture scandal at Abu Ghraib.

[LeighAnn]

30. Nothing but trash and fiction, eh?

Well then it ought to go over Real Big with the "Get a Life, Moran!" crowd that keeps guys like Rush Limpballs and Sean Hannity on the air. I read her book on Liz Taylor more than once. It was a good read.

[barb162]

19. I read parts of her book on Reagan

and then I heard something this morning about her...she has NEVER been sued. I suspect she does a lot more research than people think and maybe she writes in a lurid or tabloid style, but the facts are there. She may use anonymous sources but in a crunch the parties being written about know they better not get snotty with Kelley. Because she can back the stuff up.

[GOPAgainstGW]

13. HOW MANY TIMES YOU GOING TO POST THIS STUPID THREAD!

THE PUBLISHER HAD ENOUGH DEMAND TO PUT 3/4 MILLION BOOKS TO THE RETALIERS. YOU THINK THEY ARE STUPID! YOU THINK THEY WERE STUPID TO PAY KELLEY $4 MILLION DOLLARS TO FINISH THE BOOK.

People eat this trash up, otherwise the tabloid rag business would not be a massive multi-billion industry.

Articles about this book have been all over the International press.

The book has all the Bush AWOL stuff, to cross support the CBS-Rather fiasco. You moaning DUers think all this is by accident. Wake up!

Bush would not take the NG physical because of his drug problem and he was worried about drug traces showing up in his blood tests! And there is a person that will testify to this statement.

This book will really help fire up millions of Democratic voter base, that tend to be very lazy about voting, and never show up in these poll numbers we keep hearing about.

Book is out Tuesday and will be number 1 on the charts. Kitty will be on Today Show Mon - Wed this week and many other programs.

All the details here:

Kitty Kelley “The Family” - Here’s Info on Book Details

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=795121&mesg_id=795121

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[calimary]

29. I ran into a former liberal talk show host a couple of days ago

who still stays on top of the issues even though he doesn't presently have a forum here in L.A. He seemed to be HUGELY excited about the Kitty Kelley book. And yes, her stuff may be uber-juicy and trashy, but lawsuits and libel charges have NEVER stuck. Besides, Kitty Kelley is a big girl. She's taken aim on some pretty doggone big targets before. She's known that she's getting into a shark tank when she does this stuff, and that her stuff puts blood in the water of that shark tank. And she swims in it EVERY TIME and doesn't get bitten. She knows that legally, she BETTER have her ducks in a row, because the people she takes on have HUGELY deep pockets, and could sue her from here to Doomsday. AND bankrupt her publishers. Here, she's WELL aware of the kind of "family" we're all dealing with.

And it does come at a VERY favorable time, on the heels of the CBS stuff.

[GOPAgainstGW]

32. Agree 100%!

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[aint_no_life_nowhere]

14. There were no scandalous books about JFK while he was President

No one really knew about an affaire with Marilyn Monroe, drug usage, adultery, his father's past, the mafia, etc. Maybe some very well-connected people in government knew about it, but the general population in the U.S. had absolutely no clue of any controversy surrounding JFK during his lifetime. There's no telling what a scandalous book would have done to the election. For one thing, there were almost never any books attacking sitting Presidents regarding their private lives and journalists just didn't make personal attacks regarding the private lives of Presidents in those days, although they certainly went after them for their political positions. Also, political campaigns weren't quite the free-for-all of personal attacks in those days that they have now become. John F. Kennedy would have been profoundly trashed by the right wing whackos if he had campaigned in modern America.

With Bush, we are dealing with a situation involving a completely failed Presidency that is being propped up by the belief by some that Bush is to be associated with God in carrying out a Christian Mission with regard to both foreign and domestic policy. Bush is being supported not on the basis of his accomplishments but because of his intent (which is seen as an intent to follow Christian morality). Revealing Bush as a liar and hypocrite just might sway the opinion of a small percentage of true believers and affect the election. Therefore, I guess I respectfully disagree with the post.

[blue neen]

20. Exactly. None of Kennedy's "dirty laundry" was public knowledge

at the time of the 1960 election. And Kennedy was a genuine WWII war hero, not someone who was AWOL.

His wife actually had a personality of her own and an image of her own.

IMHO, this is comparing apples to oranges.

[Snellius]

15. Anything that muddies that putrid gene pool is clean fun to me

That family are a swamp of genetic mutants.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

16. Kelly is really in the realm of celebrity culture, not politics.

She is treating a political figure in terms of tablioid/celebrity culture, not really politics...really more a pop culture thing.

[Neshanic]

22. In case you have not noticed, we live in a celebrity pop culture.

Do you think there are lines at the library for the latest political tome concerning the Monkey?

This is the book that will make many people who would never pick up a book, read.

Plus it will be in the news every day.

[Philostopher]

28. Absolutely true.

Just like The Daily Show, where a shamefully large portion of the 18-35 male electorate gets the bulk of its current events information.

Which is to say, there are probably people who will read this book whose minds will be changed, or at least whose opinions will be influenced, regardless how trashy some folks perceive her writing to be. Because you can't discount the effect of pop culture conventional wisdom, however disgraceful it may be to think it could affect the outcome of an election.

I don't really care, since I don't plan to read the book and it wouldn't affect my vote anyway. I'd have to have some kind of severe deep-tissue brain trauma within the next several weeks to vote for the Dim Son.

[Cocoa]

17. Bush's image is the anti-JFK

that's why this stuff is effective.

JFK's base wasn't evangelical Christians.

[spooky3]

21. KK book is now #2 at Amazon.com. I wouldn't be too quick to judge.

[EST]

27. Ditto and it hasn't even sold a copy, yet! (well almost)

Now that is an amazingly difficult act to follow.

[Liberal Gramma]

23. Different avenues to the truth

Of course, thinking people will look at the damage * has done and give their vote to Kerry. But...there are a lot of people who don't think, witness the SBV scam. Those people will be affected by Kitty Kelley's book. So, just as there are multiple religious denominations, each giving their message in a different way to a different audience, there will be alternate political media like Kitty Kelley's book and will reach an audience we cannot hope to convince with facts and logic.

[blue neen]

24. Good point, Liberal Gramma.

[partygirl]

25. well I love

Kitty Kelly, and I have read all of her books! My copy has been on order for ages and I can hardly wait to read it. I think some of the stuff is true, some just rumors, some may be a stretch but I enjoy reading the dirt. That goes for the Royals, the Kennedys, the Reagans, the Bushes whoever Kitty writes about, I always enjoy it. Kitty is a really fun writer and people will enjoy her book. Who cares if every word of it is true? It is just fun it is not meant to be brain surgery. And people my age are never going to bother learning boring history anyway. So gosspy fun books and movies are really crucial in appealing to us younger and less motivated voters.

[EST]

26. I do not agree.

Even though a few people may have had some crap on Kennedy, nice people didn't talk about things like that. What we all knew then (us commoners, I mean) was that ALL politicians were liars and thieves. The worst thing you could say about a person was to call 'em a politician and once you have called somebody the dirtiest thing in your vocabulary, what else ya gonna say? Also note: Ms Kelley goes into exquisite detail about what took place in douche's missing year and a half of guard service. So is it going to help? Yes I actually think it will, but not nearly as much as I wish.

on edit: We didn't find out all that stuff on Kennedy until twenty or thirty years after he was dead. Kennedy, no doubt, could not get elected today-not a chance!
ALso look at what really takes up space on TV- Rape, diddling children, homosexual triangles, gay-straight confrontation, wierd murder trials and conspiracies, etc. Nothing about plain old law abiding people, gay or straight, nothing about plain old political confrontation, with people using only the sword of dull old truth, and on.

[dave123williams]

31. Short of finding GWB with his penis in a live boy, or a dead girl...

the mouthbreathing GOP faithful will vote for him. Even with that kind of tape, they'd go straight in to denial.

[AgadorSparticus]

33. i disagree. people SAY they detest rumors, scandals, etc. but they ALWAYS

pay attention to it. that is why the national enquirer and other gossip rags make the kind of money they make. KK is not fabricated gossip which makes her 10 times more irresistable in our society.

the thing about gossip is that it is always...repeated. this is the art of insinuation and association and that is a win situation already in my book. it is FINALLY happening to those bastards. they've been doing it to us for so long, i'm glad to see they are getting a taste of their own medicine.