Obama's Lieberman move

[mkultra]

this may have been a tough move for many to grasp so let me try to explain why it was the power move to make. If you truly embrace an obvious point as truth, that Lieberman is now a full republican, then you must recognize that in Machiavellian terms, there are only two options. Eject or continue.

Eject:
If you eject Lieberman, he will then be free to "get off the fence" and will no longer be bound to his constituency who still believes him to be a democrat. Many low information voters still consider him the best democratic option who also reaches across the isle. He is seen, by his supporters, as a moderate. Lieberman will begin voting republican on all issues that arise and he will claim very loudly that the party of unity has already become divisive. In terms of the the 60th man principle, he will use this "divisive" argument to "allow debate" on topics and not stand with Democrats to call for cloture. He will have been given the excuse he needs to walk right.

Continue:
As it stands now, he claims to sill be a democrat. He is till under pressure to present a minimal amount of votes toward the left. The choice to leave the Democrats is now completely in his hands. If he where to walk away from the Democratic party on his own, he would alienate his long time democratic constituents. They, essentially, would then know that he had changed and he would have no one to blame but himself. Meanwhile, he would not be embrassed by the republicans because instead of being a maryter, he would be seen as a turncoat. Obama is recognizing Lieberman as a remaining member of the senate and trying to minimize the damage he can cause.



In summary, Ejecting him actually gives him power while keeping him on the team puts him perpetually on the bench.

[Mark E. Smith]

1. So nice to see a little reality shed on this otherwise murky topic

Thanks.

[MadMaddie]

2. I agree with you - Something I just posted on another thread -

<snip>
Seriously, Obama is playing Lieberman and many don't get it.

If Obama would have said kick the back stabbing bastard out because he betrayed the Dem party it would have given Lieberwhore more life and more supporters. Obama took Lieberwhores only weapon and turned it on him by offerring the olive branch...

Here is the good part....

Have patience....Lieberwhore slipped up today when he admitted out loud that Obama hasn't been returning his calls.

See he can't help himself....Lieberwhore is Lieberwhore and this is what he does...again he can't help himself.

Lieberwhore thinks that he is going to skate through 2009 as if nothing happened.....it's not going to go the way he wants.

Before January 20th Lieberwhore will make such a huge gaff and show how he took the olive branch and mocked it.

Be patient.....it's coming...he simply can't help himself.
<snip>

[mkultra]

4. saying the Obama wouldnt return his calls was LIEberman tippign his hand

He was essentially letting the cat out of the bag that his plan has been to play the victim card. Thats what this whining bitch is aiming for. Unfortunately, whining about someone not calling you makes you look more like a douche than a victim.

Hes going to slit his own writs eventually. He bet on the wrong horse and hes facing a multi-layered strategists in Obama. Obama's victories remind me of a kung-fu master. He's patient and cool and never makes a mistake. As soon as Lieberman missteps, it will be over.

[saigon68]

5. Have to agree in part w/you

He is such an empty suit

[mkultra]

8. yeah, we can see it

because we pay attention. The problem is his constituency.

[Cha]

13. lieberman is good at being the victim and

it would be such a distraction for our leaders who want to get work done..Ned Lamont made this point to Allison Stewart subbing for Rachel.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87a3-tu4W78

[xxqqqzme]

36. wait just a minute...lieberman is whining

about the PRESIDENT-ELECT not returning his calls? Who the f*ck does he think he is? The arrogance is just astounding!

[roguevalley]

38. he probably is but I would like his power tools removed. he can

stay but without toys.

[Why Syzygy]

3. And it's kind of like

being in a classroom where the teacher rewards the troublemakers. More and more students become troublemakers.

Or. Going to work someplace that has poor supervision, so people steal from the employer. More and more employees start stealing.

Or. Someone bombs Atlanta. Nothing is done (FORGIVE) so more and more people bomb the USA.

[mkultra]

6. but something does happen. Its just much more indirect

which, in politics, is appropriate. None of your analogies fit this model. try something beyond two dimensional thinking.

[FrenchieCat]

10. No, it is like the parent not focusing so much on the negative behavior of the child....

pretty soon the child realizes that bad behavior doesn't equal gaining Dad's attention.

[Grey]

7. I love watching Obama play poker.

He's good.

[Jennicut]

9. Essentially Joe Loserman is Barack's little bitch, his plaything

Mr. Prez Elect treated Joe like a human being and made him look small. Obama is not petty or angry, and Joe ended up looking like a whiny crybaby. By the way, you are right about some dumb voters in CT who think he is a "moderate". He essentially is, on social issues. But on foreign policy, he cares more about Israel then the United States. We shall see what happens. I hope we get a good, strong, appalling Dem here in 2012 to run a good campaign against him.

[backscatter712]

14. Exactly. Obama reached into his bag of Chicago when dealing with Senator Palpatine.

Now Obama owns Lieberman. Lieberman is Obama's little bitch now. Lieberman is now seen as owing Obama and the rest of the Democrats a huge number of favors. I say we demand that those favors be collected.

[Starry Messenger]

11. I agree. +1

Watching this play out has been masterful. I loved reading about Lieberman's pathetic interview with morning. How different that would have gone if he'd been "punished" by the Senate. He'd be braying about what a martyr he is for his convictions and he'd have Repubs stepping up to defend him. It would be all about Lieberman and his pathetic self-myth. Now his narrative has been completely knee-capped.

Now there is no story.

[mkultra]

12. yup, and hes running out of doors

soon, he will have no room to run.

[quakerboy]

15. One question is left to me

As we keep Lieberman, why do we believe that he will vote with us on anything important?

Given who he is, I find it much more believable that Lieberman will feel free to break with dems whenever its most inconvenient, rather than feeling any responsability to help move anything forward. At the same time his "low information" supporters will be that much more likely to believe he did the "right thing" because he will be cast as a dem who broke with the party, as opposed to a republican who went along with the party.

Likewise, given the others who inhabit the senate, I find it likely that some of the centrist Dems will use him as their cover to break with the party as a little miniherd, where if he was a Rep, they wouldn't have that cover/leader.

[mkultra]

16. the question you have to ask is

does being forced out of the party give him more fuel with his voters or less. If he is forced out , he will have more justification so vote conservative while maintaining his "reasonable" image.

[quakerboy]

21. I dont know about that

I think it would have depended on how it was done. If they had not had any drama, but just given him the chairmanships they think he actually deserved, then it would have been on him to step back and make the split or go back to what he promised his voters.

I dunno. My gut is that this is bad. I hope I am wrong. I hope you are right.

[John Q. Citizen]

22. I don't support rewarding poor behavior. Giving Lieberman the Chair of HS was a

mistake that will cost the Dems down the road. When it does, will you take responsibility? Of course not. If wasn't your decision. And it has nothing to do with your intelligence or your lack there of.

The argument you are offering isn't new, and you didn't come up with it.
Anyone who has been paying attention has already heard the rational you are employing. so your attempt to take credit for that argument is strange.

There are intelligent, aware, and thinking people who don't agree with leaving Joe in his HS Chair.

I don't know anyone who argued very long or hard for removing Joe from the caucus. I do know many who argued to remove his Chairmanship and who still believe that would be appropriate and smart.

i think bribing Joe to stay in the caucus is a black spot on the Dem senate. And I think it undermines their credibility and hence there ability to lead.

It means that all but 13 Dem Senators believe Joe did a heck of a job by refusing to do his duty as regards oversight of the bush administration. The Democrats now own that lack of oversight.

[MadMaddie]

23. I don't think it's a reward

I think Lieberwhore may think it is but I am getting the feeling that there is more to this than meets the eye.

The Senators that voted for him didn't do it because they believe he was doing a great job, there is more going on behind the scenes. I think Obama and Rahm twisted some arms not to kick him out. It's like a chess game and Obama has control.....we will eventually find out what the deal is.

We just have to be patient...

[mkultra]

26. it would be the very thing that makes him stronger

its not reward, its the best strategic move.
I didn't try to take credit, i just tried to explain. If this is Obama's move, then the credit is his.
If there are intelligent arguments that outweigh the obviousness of making him a martyr, i haven't seen them, and your post certainly falls short of the goal.

It should be clear that many hear argued for his removal from the caucus, which is a move that i would eventually prefer.
he was stripped of a chairmanship and publicly embarrassed. Lieberman was not given a bribe and wonder what your talking about frankly.

These moves prove to a rational person that the current administration is forward thinking and ready to lead.
Maybe one day your message board threats to the democrat will mean something. Until then, try to remember that this is a democratic board and your acting like a republican.

[John Q. Citizen]

29. If my disagreeing with your opinion equates in your mind to

my 'acting like a Republican,' then who am I to argue with a mentally ill person?

Yeah, sure dude. Whatever you say.

[LynneSin]

37. His rating, according to the American Conservative Union, is like 15%

that means 85% of the time he didn't vote with the way conservatives should vote.

I think this whole move is over one issue only - the US Supreme Court. Lieberman is a pro-choice candidate (Near 100% with his NARAL rating) and it's a major assumption that at least 2 liberal judges will be retiring after 1/20/09 (John Paul Stevens and Ruth Bader Ginsberg).

We may not get 60 seats but we can probably get enough votes with the gals from Maine hopefully joining our side on the vote (they are also pro-choice and very low on the Conservative Rating).

Ultimately I think Obama wanted to stick with his promise of ending partisan politics - saving Joe's butt was the first proof that he meant that. And ultimately the Dems could pull a 'Jeffords' on Lieberman - make him miserable enough including using someone else as the 'lead' of the committee (Repubs would go to Greggs instead of Jeffords when they had committee issues).

If Lieberman had a set of balls he would have said "FUCK YOU" to all of the dems and switch alliances. Buy staying with us he's basically our 'lil bitch' that he either does what we tell him to do or we just make him miserable until he walks away.

[rudy23]

17. Lost in all this political back and forth is the Katrina investigations.

Lieberman promised them, then scuttled them once elected. Obama wanting him to keep his chair pretty much rewards him for the Katrina coverup, and guarantees that it will continue.

[mkultra]

18. that makes liberman a douche

but acting irrationally so quench ones anger is folly. If thats what you want, then you should be voting republican.

[rudy23]

24. Wanting Katrina investigations as "revenge" makes me a Republican?

I hope you never have to go through anything close to that to understand why there should be investigations into the wrongdoing there.

[mkultra]

25. acting out of hate makes you republican

or just as low as them.

[rudy23]

27. It's not out of "hate" that I want people held responsible for Katrina

Why would you project hate onto me for that? Shouldn't that be a pretty commonly held ideal here, responsibility for the failed Katrina response?

That makes no sense to me.

[mkultra]

28. lieberman is not to blame for the fiasco

bush and his cronies are. We can investigate them when we actually come to power.

[rudy23]

30. NO, not with Lieberman as chair of Homeland Security!!!!

That's my whole point!!!!

He's the one who refused to investigate, and with Obama keeping him as chair of that committee, we never will investigate!!!!

[mkultra]

33. look, im not going to defend lieberman

he is, without question, and ultra mega douche. im just saying that its not yet time to purge that cancer. The only case in which he will not suffer is if he is about to retire. In that case, he will go scot free, but as long as hes gone, im fine. In the end, it would be independent council that would investigate.

[Clio the Leo]

19. I love all of you all but there's a reason why I voted for Obama and ....

... no one here on the board. :)

Brains ya know ..... brains that man has ... wicked smat and all that.

(In other words, yes, I agree with you)

[mkultra]

20. and we hear from the Zombie voting demographic

;)

[grantcart]

31. Well stated

even if it is hard to swallow.

[mkultra]

34. well, another possibility to consider is that

LIEberman is getting ready to retire. his voluntary departure may be part of the game.

[pgh_dem]

32. The economic crisis and Senate procedural rules may make

this a simpler explanation:

If Lieberman was voted out of DHS chairmanship last week, and he left the Democratic Caucus, then wouldn't the majority of the lame-duck session have been affected? Would there be a two month period where GOP chaired (or co-chaired) the major committees, effectively stopping other committees from meeting or reacting to the economy's freefall?

If this was the case, I would have preferred a delay in the chairmanship vote until the new congress was seated. The group hug from the other Democratic senators either indicates a shrewdness they felt unnecessary to share with 'the little people' out here, or that they don't really care that he held no hearings on Katrina response, that he agreed it was a 'good question' whether Obama is a marxist, that he felt Obama was unprepared to be Commander-in-chief, and that he doubted Obama would 'put country first'.

The current debate over President Obama's cabinet appointments is (sorta) about competence over ideology, but any sane review of Lieberman's conduct with regard to foreign policy and 'vaterland' security would conclude Lieberman has been all ideology, no competence.

Wait for the poison pill at the beginning of the next congress, when Lieberman calls hearings into President Obama's 'national security-risking' *disclosure* of the extent of the Bush warrantless wiretapping program.

[bvar22]

35. Logical Fallacy: False Dilemma.

False dilemma (or false dichotomy) is a fallacy of reasoning that omits consideration of all reasonable alternatives.

In addition to the two extremes you posted, there were many other options between ejection and re-instatement with full powers, privileges, honors, and committee chairs.

I would have at least taken away his parking space.

[AtomicKitten]

39. IMO he should have been stripped of his chairmanship position at the very least.

He doesn't deserve the luxury of the Dems letting this slide.