Should blanket anti-Union posts be allowed on DU

[Every Man A King]

Poll question: Should blanket anti-Union posts be allowed on DU

[Sebastian Doyle]

1. anti union Democrats are about as logical as anti semitic Jews

Are there really such people here?

[Every Man A King]

2. Yes

look carefully in the flood of let the car companies go broke threads.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

4. right over here,

I can count on one hand how many unions I have any respect for,

[Renew Deal]

10. Thankfully

That hand has thousands of fingers. :D

[Virginia Dare]

23. I assume you mean the leadership and not the members...n/t

[mrreowwr_kittty]

32. Do you also think outsourcing is good for the economy?

I have a feeling you do.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

41. not at all

I actually had a hand in killing a large outsourcing project earlier this year, I just believe that most unions have long since become not simply irrelevant but destructive.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

42. Well that's good to know.

So what do you propose as an alternative to unions, as it pertains to protecting the rights of workers?

[Ian David]

7. Well...

Anti-Semitic Jews

[Sebastian Doyle]

14. I recognize Ben Stein, but who's the other guy?

Grandpa Munster?

[Ian David]

15. Jackie Mason. n/t

[BrotherBuzz]

37. I believe Michael (Weiner) Savage belongs on that list, too.

[slackmaster]

3. Damn straight anti-Union posts should be allowed on DU!

The War of Northern Aggression is not over!

[laconicsax]

12. Ba-zing!

[lunatica]

21. Especially not in the South! Who says Americans have short memories?

I lived in the South when I was going to highschool and let me tell you they talk about things that happened two generations back as if it happened yesterday. And they can hold a grudge for over a Century.

[NutmegYankee]

30. You mean we get to burn Georgia again?

And blow away the traitors? Fucking awesome! Go USA!

[IA_Seth]

5. No.

And I dont think I should have to get that crap in my email box from my employer either.. but alas I get pelted with a "Facts you should know about Unions" email at least once a month or so.

Ugh.

[Occam Bandage]

6. I think it depends on what we mean by that.

"Unions are scum, and employees who want to unionize should be fired or shot" doesn't belong here.

"Quality-of-life concessions made to the Union workforce of the automobile industry have ironically made it more difficult--if not impossible--for the American auto industry to compete in the new globalized market, and we should look at harsh measures like pay cuts and health-benefit cuts as part of a comprehensive cost-control program if we're serious about ensuring that GM and the jobs it provides survive the decade intact" is a somewhat controversial viewpoint, but one that deserves to be debated.

[nichomachus]

13. It's not the unions' fault if companies negotiated badly

One of the problems with US corporations is that they never took the long view when making corporate decisions. It was always pegged to next month's P&L statement. So, when they were flush with money, they never planned for the days when they wouldn't be flush with money.

Giving concessions to unions wasn't the only area where they failed in their stewardship. Yes, unions demanded a lot, but the job of union negotiators is to get the best deal for their members. It's not to tell the corporate management how to do their job.

[Occam Bandage]

18. I don't think it is either. Union/management relations are adversarial, much as our court system is.

Saying "the Unions did too good a job of negotiating" is a bit like looking at a court case and saying "the defense attorney did too good a job getting his client off." That's not the way it works.

I don't think that a claim that too much of GM's money per car produced goes to pay/benefits must be accompanied by any declaration of blame.

[Renew Deal]

8. I'm generally against censorship and the Democratic party is not monolithic

Besides that, there is rarely if ever anti-union material on DU.

[Ian David]

16. The right to Unionize is a Progressive Value, and this is a Progressive Message Board. n/t

[Ignis]

24. That's it in a nutshell.

I can't even believe we're debating this.

[Renew Deal]

28. Right

The original question is vague. And DU can handle debate on union issues and others.

[Blue_Tires]

47. +1

[JeffR]

9. I'll give an opinion when you clarify what you mean.

Just sayin'.

[TheKentuckian]

11. Yeah, free speech but they should be prepared to be flamed pretty hard.

[Renew Deal]

29. Exactly

:shrug:

[blondeatlast]

31. The "flamed pretty hard" thing is the kicker. Yesterday I saw a confessed Libertarian,

spouting his Libertarian talking points, prefacing them with a plea not to criticize his opinion.

I've professed an unpopular view or two here, gotten flamed (and educated) and sucked it up.

I suppose progressives can be anti-union, but I think most of us aren't so--hellooo?--you are gonna get heat if you are. And that is how it should be.

[ipfilter]

17. People can say what they want.

However, unions are inherently blue and I credit my union for completing my transformation from R to D.

[PassingFair]

19. No, idiots should be able to make anti-union posts. n/t

[happychatter]

20. until I came here I didn't know there WERE such things.... the PRO-Union responses are good

and maybe the anti-union sentiments of a few are good to have posted, so others get to hear the pro-union argument MORE often, eh?

it frames up a discussion

[Nye Bevan]

22. I've never seen a "blanket anti-Union post" on DU

and I've been here since 2004.

Perhaps you could provide a link to one of these posts that you are concerned about?

[Ian David]

25. oooh.... CONCERNED. n/t

[Every Man A King]

38. here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=7855436&mesg_id=7855819

[mokawanis]

26. I am ready and willing to argue in favor of unions

against any moron that actually thinks they're a bad thing.

[Hippo_Tron]

27. For those saying no, some people do come to DU to learn

I think that the trolls who actually come here to propagate right wing garbage are a vast minority, although they are a vocal one.

As hard as it is to believe, not everybody on DU is an activist or spends a lot of time following politics or reading about history. So when they post something that may seem anti-union to you, it may be simply that they don't know a whole lot about unions and have come to DU to try and get a progressive viewpoint on the subject. Rather than having the mods delete their posts, it would be far more productive to try and persuade them as to why they should support unions.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[WillyT]

44. God-Damned Scab !!!

:evilgrin:

:hide:

:rofl:

[Doityourself]

34. I am a supervisor of a union shop..and I say they deserve every dime they get...! N/T

[southernyankeebelle]

35. Huh

Last time I check this country is freedom of the press. People should be mature enough to handle pro or con issues about anything.

[blondeatlast]

43. The First Amendment applies ONLY to the government, not private entities.

DU is a privately run business so they can throw those that come in and disrupt the place out at will.

Do you want to argue? I'm and ex-librarian and and very big--and educated--about the First Amendment.

[rch35]

51. hahahaha. I think it's ironic that while you were trying to give yourself textual fellatio you

misspelled the word "an".

"Do you want to argue? I'm and ex-librarian and and very big--and educated--about the First Amendment."

Are you threatening me? My name is Cornholio!

:rofl:

[blondeatlast]

53. You're so cute! nt

[rch35]

55. ......oooooooook....... nt

[OnionPatch]

36. Do we really want to censor all opposing viewpoints on a discussion forum?

I'm an ex-member of the USWA and pro-union, myself. But as much as I support unions, I value freedom of speech more. Sorry. On a Democratic board, I would say someone who is blatantly against most progressive values should be subject to being banned, but to ban someone simply for an opposing view on one particular issue just seems wrong to me. I hope this board never gets that lock-step.

[Orsino]

39. Blanket anti-union posts should be pizza fodder.

That's probably gonna be a self-correcting problem, though. Complete opposition to unions will creep out in other, even less welcome ways.

Constructive criticism of unions ought to be encouraged.

[Quantess]

40. Yes, and everyone else, proceed to rip that DUer a new one.

[blondeatlast]

48. That's my thought as well. nt

[Joe the Revelator]

45. Lets not pretend that all unions, at their top levels are these benevolent orgs

They like everything else, are controlled by money at the top and as such are open from criticism.

[That Is Quite Enough]

46. I don't agree with their opinions, but I think they should still be allowed.

[Honeycombe8]

49. I voted yes mainly because I have a feeling that people would interpret the statement...

differently, depending on how they feel about unions. You know...as to whether a post is a so-called blanket statement against unions.

So I err on the side of inclusiveness of opinions and freedom of speech.

[MsTryska]

50. Free Speech is Free Speech.

Of course they should be allowed. What self-respecting liberal would ever even think to ask that question?

[rch35]

52. Y'know, a capital "U" makes it seem like you are talking about the country

where I think you should be using a little "u" for the union.

[blondeatlast]

54. Aren't you precious?

You're ADORABLE!

[rch35]

56. my god.... my psycho ex-nanny found me on the internet!

:tinfoilhat:

[sampsonblk]

57. Yes, after all, we are all Democrats

I find anti-union comments foolish and distasteful. But we are still all Dems so we should be able to discuss that subject openly and honestly.

[amborin]

58. no, anyone who's anti-union and democratic probably does not understand

what unions are all about, why they are so crucial