Defeating of the Bail Out is a GOOD thing. This isn't all or nothing. Do not let fear rule you.

[debbierlus]

This is a Bush plan. Remember, him? This bill would have given free reign for Paulson (the overseer in charge of the treasury during the creation of this disaster) to allocate the money. Bernacke & Paulson should RESIGN. That should be a prerequisite for ANY financial plan before going forward. Bush Co., the people who lost NINE BILLION dollars in Iraq. The people who have destroyed every single thing they touch. I think fear is driving people mad.

I am stunned that some people here on DU are whining that a BUSH ADMINISTRATION HEIST was defeated.

Should there be an intervention? Of course. But, not this TRAVESTY of a giveaway to the perpetrators. We need cool head and logic. We need time and investigation.

We need full disclosure before we can move forward. Open the books, investigate, & prosecute - and let the best economic minds solve this problem, not the people who drove us into ruin.

Throwing 3/4th of a TRILLION dollars into a chasm of corporate greed and lobbyist panting will NOT work. Let's do something that WILL.

[Myrina]

1. Thank you.

Well said! :hi:

[chicagoexpat]

7. Rush Limbaugh couldn't be happier!

[debbierlus]

This was financial terrorism of the American people by the Government

Yes, we are in a HUGE mess. But, the way they played fear and warned of total financial ruin, if we didn't go along with a HEIST, it is so unethical and indecent.

[JuniperLea]

Indeed! They knew this train was off the track...

And about to wreck... and they knew this a long time ago... this bailout means nothing... this has gone global... the whole world is feeling it now... there's no bailing us out now.

We just have to stop with the panic, and prepare for shortages.

[chicagoexpat]

75. damn Martians double posted

[chicagoexpat]

76. Yeah, them damn Martians that control our gummint did this to us! Where's my tin foil hat?

That's right, the Gummint's got NOTHING TO DO with the American People!

We got NO ONE representing us, they're all MARTIANS!

[JuniperLea]

86. Did you not read the news this morning?

Two European banks failed today.

[chicagoexpat]

2. yep... stand shoulder to shoulder w/ teh FREEPERS! That's the ticket

[mrreowwr_kittty]

31. There is nothing freeperish in the OP. Did you just type that without reading it? nt

[chicagoexpat]

63. U & Rush Limbaugh are right... & the Freepers... how could I be so wrong not to stand w/ u?

Edited for misspelling a hog's name

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[liberalpress]

42. What I;ve found out today..

... we're just collateral damage. Necessary corpses in DU efforts to kill the rich. Save me a spot at the poor house.

[soothsayer]

44. The plan would have stuck it to YOU. Wow, people are really blinded by fear.

[liberalpress]

73. Ask yourself this:

Does your employer borrow to make payroll? (many do)
If so,, good luck with that check

Does your grocer borrow to stock his inventory?
I guess you'll have to eat the richbecause groeries are out.

[chicagoexpat]

80. Yeah, that bill wouldn't buy any assest, it just gives money to the stock brokers

NOT

ur tinfoil hat is showing

:eyes:

[MadrasT]

4. The plan - even with the changes made - still sucked.

I'm not sitting here saying "do nothing," but that plan was bullshit.

[Raineyb]

60. I have to agree with you

It really wasn't a good plan but then why would I be surprised, this isn't the first time Bush went to Congress said "we have an emergency pass my bill now!" and then the Congress passes a slightly modified bill that still sucks. Now can we try looking into something that will fix the problem while they're bailing?

Regards

[ecstatic]

5. I kind of agree.

This is a lose lose for republicans and it gives us time to modify. I'm not trying to make this more about politics, I understand the situation is dire--but this also gives us a chance to see what the markets will do.

[scheming daemons]

6. You are VERY wrong

- They put protections in place to NOT have Paulson have free reign.


- We don't have TIME for "investigation". The economy will be dead before then.


This needed to pass... then let President Obama fix the deficiences after January.

[ShortnFiery]

16. B.S. The Executive Branch would have immediate access to over 350 billion dollars.

:thumbsdown:

[msallied]

21. And WHAT proof do you have of this sheer B.S?

[scheming daemons]

32. You are SO short-sighted.... throwing away the nation because of Bush?

Bush was right on this one... first time for everything.

[JuniperLea]

56. Did you read your own post? eom

[soothsayer]

48. Oh, please. "The sky is falling! The sky is falling!"

We're going to get through this. We don't need to rush headlong into it without thinking about it, and just signing onto whatever plan the-powers-that-be shove in front of us to sign. Jeezus, maybe our lame reps actually learned something from the Patriot Act.

[Runcible Spoon]

99. god give it a rest. are you on Paulson's payroll?

No? well you should be, all the shilling you do around here. :eyes:

[geek tragedy]

8. Give me a fucking break with the "if Bush supports it, it has

to be defeated" knee-jerk stupidity.

[TheDonkey]

33. I'm sorry but if Bush supports this that in of itself is reason to be concerned

that is not knee-jerk that is rational cautious thinking. History has proven time and time again that Shrub is a fan of the quick fix and now wallstreet is trying to blackmail America. There needs to be a fix to this problem but a BAILOUT is not it imo.

[JuniperLea]

68. Because even a chimp is right once in a while??? eom

[Forkboy]

77. I know, that's like telling people to stock up on rations and ammunition..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=7242945#7243673

I'm glad you're so against knee jerk stupidity. :thumbsup:

[Jennicut]

9. debbierlus, the market is crashing, Credit had dryed up for companies.

We needed a bipartisan bill and had one and the Rethugs threw it out not because they cared for the tax payer but because they believe markets should live and die on their own regardless of how it hurts ordinary people. Nothing we do short of helping the liquidity problem will not work.

[debbierlus]

36. You are missing the point. The bill would NOT have solved the problem

Have you been reading the posts all over DU? Have read about how many economists believe this bill could make things WORSE, not better, as companies line up to write off bad debt? Have you read about the problem of the 3/4th of a trillion not being NEARLY enough (experts state it would me more like 5 trillion dollars)? Have you read up on how this bill only extends the bubble, it will not prevent it from bursting?

And, I have probably a bigger stake in the market then most people here. My father has a HUGE amount invested in the market which is basically suppossed to translate into my inheritance. Major money. I am watching my inheritance disappear. The money my dad worked all his life to build and create for his kids. But, I am a sane person and I will not be dictated by Bush Co. blackmailing my support of a atrocious bill with fear and threats of ruin. I have no belief in him or the people he employs to solve this problem. This is the man who needs to be IMPEACHED. These people are criminals.

Have you forgotten how Pelosi has behaved as Speaker? Do you forget her betrayals so easily?

Do not succumb to their fear card. This is how they control the population.

And, to those who are telling me to shut up. I will be more polite in my response.

NO.

[Jennicut]

55. I think you want to burn the market down to start over. Never gonna happen.

Its just going to hurt us in the long run, not help to "start over". There will never be a start over. We either bail out to stop the major bleeding or we watch our money burn up in the market and jobs disappear. Killing the system in an anarchic way is crap. This is not fear, its real. Bush needed to be impeached years ago but its too late now. People who blame government for everything but then turn around and expect it to perform for them don't get it at all. You are letting your anger for Bush and Pelosi overlook the fact that there may be nothing more we can do on this unless the depression looks good to you. It doesn't to me.

[Silent3]

83. There's a difference between telling you to shut up...

...and telling you that what you're saying is stupid.

If you can't even tell the difference between criticism and censorship, forgive me if that doesn't warm me up to the strength of your economic expertise or the insight of your conspiratorial style of thinking.

[JuniperLea]

It's global now... a bottomless pit... $700 billion will NOT help! eom

[Doityourself]

10. Oversight, regulations and other provisions were added to this Bill...what are you talking about..

[debbierlus]

38. Actually, they weren't - they just made GIANT loopholes for them to avoid them

Go to to the front page and read the post about the expanded powers of the Secretary of the Treasury.

The oversight was a LIE, LIE, LIE.

[ShortnFiery]

11. Yes, when the BushBotBorg scream "Fire" but Libertarians on both sides of the aisle vote "no"

Side with the libertarians. :thumbsup:

[Jennicut]

14. Libertarians can suck my ass. Thanks guys for crashing the market. See ya on the unemployment line.

Libertarians have done nothing but wreck this economy.

[msallied]

17. Yes, you play the fiddle while Rome burns. Idiot.

Shit rolls downhill, as we will all soon see.

[ShortnFiery]

20. Yes, I bet you also thought "The Patriot Act" and "The IWR" was CRITICAL also?

:eyes:

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ShortnFiery]

34. Oh nice, you elevated the conversation by calling me "dipshit"

Get a grip! Congress voted against this CRAP and they will not pass it. Just calm down - we're all going to crash but the CEOs will be next to us in the soup line. That's life - nothing will stop the Market Crash. :shrug:

[msallied]

37. Yes. Let's screw the country to punish a party. That's what John McCain wants too.

Why don't you head on over to the Free Republic. They'd love to have you.

[ShortnFiery]

43. I think you need to regroup? That's not what I mean and you know it.

:-) :hi:

[PVnRT]

90. Interesting

You get to insinuate people are Bush enablers, but whine when they tell you to head to FR.

[ShortnFiery]

98. Any insinuation is only within your imagination - This is not partisan. eom

[CakeGrrl]

12. But this was not the 3-page "give everything to Paulson" original proposal

As I understand it, this was a compromise that had pretty much all of Obama's conditions written into it. The Dems were not giving Paulson his blank check.

[CreekDog]

18. don't confuse the OP with facts

obviously she is smarter than you in saying was Bush's plan, which is why Republicans mostly voted against it and Democrats mostly for it. :eyes:

[jonestonesusa]

100. You all are trashing the OP writer.

You also have to trash Dennis Kucinich, who is against the bailout plan. To be fair, there were nearly 100 House Democrats who voted against it, along with a larger number of Republicans.

I am learning about this issue by reading, listening, and research. So far, I'm against a broad-based bailout that doesn't look at individual companies, that is written in a week, that may not look carefully enough at the viability of the companies it provides assistance to.

The OP is quite right, in my opinion, that we should not rely just on fear to guide our judgment. Anyone who has investment accounts will feel pain over the short term, but longer term strength is what we're after, right, rather than a short term solution that just turns the bad mortgages into public debt (or assets, however you look at it)?

And keep in mind that everyone will pay, even though many people will not benefit as much since not everyone has big retirement savings. There are a lot of class issues that are not being discussed.

So cut the one-sided rhetoric and let us all learn, think, and give our representatives the kind of reasoned feedback that they need to decide well. Thanks for the OP! :hi:

[CreekDog]

13. You didn't post any content from the bill to back up your points

your points being wrong, which is why some basis of those points are needed.

[frickaline]

22. seconded.

Here's some lay person information for any that need it, make your own decision on whether taxpayers were protected:

http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/29/news/economy/financial_rescue_101/index.htm?postversion=2008092911

[ClarkUSA]

27. That's because the OP hasn't read the proposal but she did quote Michael Moore in a previous OP.

Michael Moore being one of the "best economic minds" the OP respects, of course. :eyes:

[debbierlus]

64. Excuse me, I read the damn thing - New York Times, I read Forbes, I read until my eyes hurt

And, I used Michael Moore's letter because he hit it on the head.

It wasn't how I came to my opinion. I have been protesting this since last week. So spare me the condescending eye rolls.

[ClarkUSA]

70. Then prove it by quoting from the proposal to back up your bullshit OP. You won't be able to.

By the way, I don't believe for a second that you read the entire 110 pp. proposal, otherwise you
wouldn't spout such utter nonsense.

[ContinentalOp]

15. k+r

[ClarkUSA]

19. Wrong again. This was a modified plan that would not "have given free reign for Paulson."

The best economic minds wanted this plan to go through. Or are you referring to Michael Moore again? :eyes:

[soothsayer]

41. It totally continued to give free reign go paulson! it was just better disguised.

Read between the lines, you'll see it.

[debbierlus]

58. Amen. People so desperately want this to go away, they will give up a sane solution

For a financial heist - a pig in a poke - created by BUSH PAULSON & PELOSI.

Courage people. Courage.

[ClarkUSA]

For the fourth time, have you read the entire proposal before spouting your BS rhetoric?

You have no clue as to what is going on economically besides what you're getting from Michael Moore. :eyes:

[debbierlus]

84. So, what is in the bill that you support?

Would it be the astonishing power that the bill gives to Treasury Secretary Paulson to allocate the funds?

Or, do you like the meaningless 'Golden Parachute' protection giving Paulson say over the how & when this bill gets implemented?

Or, perhaps, you like the fact the bill allows 350 billion now with Paulson deciding distribution - another 100 billion dollars at the Presidents discretion and another 250 billion that Congress can retract BUT the President can override with a veto?

[ClarkUSA]

93. So what's your plan, genius? Since you seem to know so much about economics and all...

Spare me your talking points gleaned from Michael Moore :eyes: because it's obvious that's all you have since
it is clear to me (and many others here) that you have not read the bill in entirety, much less at all.

[ClarkUSA]

61. Link? Quote? I've read every page of the 110 pp. proposal and it is not a bad deal for taxpayers.

And I was asking the OP, who seems to prefer getting her economic advice from Michael Moore
instead of Paul Krugman and Warren Buffett. :eyes:

[Occam Bandage]

23. Yes, Rush, Newt, and the House Republicans are really all on our side, and the Dems aren't.

[debbierlus]

51. Dennis Kucinich is on our side. His speech was brilliant. Why listen to him, though...

He is only the one who had the balls to fight for impeachment while Pelosi (lead co-conspirator to this plan) oppossed it. He is only the one that has stood on the right side of the issue EVERY SINGLE TIME while the democratic establishment enabled Bush to spy, lie, torture, and murder with no repurcussions.

Of course the Republicans are not on our side. This is a political game, and any deal they support would be worse. That does not mean that this atrocious scam of a bill is a solution. It isn't. The democrats are running scared or acquiescing AGAIN. Like they did with torture, like they did with warrantless wiretapping...Where have you been the last 7 1/2 years?

[Occam Bandage]

79. Because Dennis Kucinich enjoys grandstanding for the netroots. He hasn't done anything meaningful

in his entire career in Congress. He has not written and passed one meaningful bill. He does not have any legislative allies. He is not in charge of any caucus, subcaucus, committee, subcommittee, or study group. He's an ideologue, not an economist.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

25. The only thing going up today is my ignore list. Buh-bye!

[kwenu]

26. The bill is as good as it gets and has the protection our party wanted.

Wall Street's actions were abominable but what folks don't seem to get is that we are going to be flushed down the toilet right along with Wall St. if their is no plan.

[ShortnFiery]

39. It wouldn't of helped. It was "a drop in the bucket." Settle in for the long cold winter.

:shrug:

[msallied]

46. The winter was going to be long and cold anyway. Now it'll be longer and colder.

That's the difference. A one year recession vs a ten year depression. I'll take the recession. At least then my husband has a better chance of keeping his job and feeding his family.

[TieDyedDad]

28. Be careful

I understand the temptation here to bash Wall Street. But regular folks are going to be affected as well. Credit lines are drying up, not just for businesses, but for Joe Main Street as well. Do you need a car loan, mortgage or loans for college. Forget it. Also, most people have some interest in the market through 401k's, wanna retire soon, good luck.

[OwnedByFerrets]

29. K AND R

[Barack_America]

30. No, debbierlus. I'm sorry, but for the person living paycheck-to-paycheck...

And employed by a small company, this is a very big deal. Frozen credit is going to make it hard for small businesses to borrow to meet payroll. And many people can't afford to miss even a single paycheck.

[debbierlus]

45. Oh, really. My husband OWNS a small company. And, I know full well the reality

Of living paycheck to paycheck...

You are succumbing to financial blackmail. You are missing the main point - this will not work. It will buy a TEMPORARY extension and leave us with little resources to spend when the shit hits the fan. And, it will. You can't have a society propted up on debt not fall, especially one that has lost its job base and ability to manufacture goods.

I did not say do nothing, I said do not do this...

I stand firm.

[Barack_America]

65. Why don't you ask your husband if his small business could get a loan right now.

I'm seriously curious if this credit freeze on small business is as bad as they're seeing.

[catgirl]

35. You're in a different reality debbierlus

Strict oversight by Congress was added to the bill. Your little guruish lectures
are ridiculous and show how clueless you really are.

[Born_A_Truman]

40. You think the House GOP cares that I lost several thousand $$s in my retirement?

I am 62. Tell me how these bastards care about us? When have they ever cared about seniors? Think about it.

Not everyone has 15-20 years to recoup these losses.

[debbierlus]

54. When has Bush ever presented any plan for the good of the American people

Think about it.

Here's the dirty little secret. The Bush plan will NOT help you. It will only extend the period of a credit bubble that will burst. And, they will have then stolen any and all resources to deal with the problems, and you will have even less chance of recouping any losses.

[Born_A_Truman]

69. So comforting...

[TexasObserver]

47. Amen. Let the Bush chickens come home to roost NOW.

Let the markets bottom out NOW, under Bush, before the election. This is a scam to help the Bushies cover their mistakes another few months, then leave as the next big crisis comes up.

We definitely will need to use some federal funds to attack the problems, but let the GOP find the bottom now, this year, before the election.

This is not another Depression. It's not even as bad as 1987.

[Buck Rabbit]

95. You are so absolutely wrong.

I have owned my business for 20 years come this January, and was the GM back in 1987. If Bank Of America calls my credit line, we are toast. Twenty eight employees, average age over 50, average length of employment here 18 years. None but me with a college education, all with experience in an industry under assault by energy prices. Most of my people will not be able to find employment, let alone at their current pay and benefits because we are the only employer in this area where their skills and experience are directly relevant.

Once we are gone we are gone, nothing done after the election will bring us back.

[TexasObserver]

97. I'm absolutely right.

If you are entirely dependent upon a line of credit by BOA to run your business, then you're doing business with the wrong bank. There are tons of healthy, liquid banks in the nation. I spoke with some of them today, just to make sure that the current "crisis" is not affecting them. It isn't.

If you really think your business live or dies on a credit line, you should have gotten a back up line or a different bank.

Why do you think BOA would pull your line? That's absurd. You're running scared, for no reason.

If you are sincerely concerned, you should be getting another line set up, not trying to convince me you have "inside" info that is really valuable. I'll stick with my sources.

[WeDidIt]

49. I disagree completely

This was the worst possible outcome because there is no way in hell of achieving a better bill than the one that was voted down today.

[ContinentalOp]

71. Why not?

We only needed Republican support because they were going to use it against us politically. Now we are free to write our own, better plan and hopefully get the American people behind it so that it won't destroy our party politically.

[Willo]

50. I agree. There is no pretty way out of this

but that plan was not the answer.

[1corona4u]

52. WOW, once again, you show your ignorance.

[soothsayer]

53. I'm in 100% agreement with you. Let's get a solution that makes sense, not that gives away the

candy store. For goodness' sake, how on earth did people get so terrified that the world will come to an end in 24 hrs?

[L0oniX]

57. Expect insults from those here who have stocks. I am totally happy with the rejection of the bill.

I made over $1500 today from my gold investment and yet today I've been insulted from those here who think gold is bad and I guess for them stocks are good and of course they would be for a bail out at tax payers expense.

[donco6]

66. And they sent that gold to you in the mail?

Oh wait! It's on PAPER.

Good luck with that.

[L0oniX]

72. I guess you haven't read up on a variety of gold investments and how it is bought and delivered.

[chicagoexpat]

67. Thank you, Dan Savage

[L0oniX]

74. Welcome to my ignore dungeon.

[Forkboy]

82. That's as bad as some of th stuff I've seen directed at those against the bill.

It reeks of the same "I have mine, you get yours" I see in Repubs.

Both sides need to chill and realize that both have valid points and justified fears. :shrug:

[L0oniX]

89. Thanks for the insult ..you've made my case.

Too bad people gamble on the stock market and loose. Of course I am not allowed to consider it gambling I suppose. Now I am suppose to help bail out the gamblers?

[Forkboy]

92. I have no gold or stocks, so no, your case isn't made.

I just pointed out that your argument sounds just like the Repubs when they take that attitude. If you don't like someone saying you're sounding like a Republican don't parrot one of their more frequent attitudes.

You're gambling too, and seem to be rubbing it in people's faces that their gamble didn't pay off and yours did. I'm not taking sides on the bailout, I'm pointing out that your attitude towards fellow humans in this case pretty much sucks. It's not a political stance on my part here. :shrug:

[Eyes_wide_ open]

87. You're expecting insults because your saying "I have mine"

and I really don't give a shit about anyone else? Go figure! I've seen that mindset before and don't much care for those who hold it.

And no Genius, I DON'T have stocks, I don't even have a JOB and that situation isn't going to get any better until somebody does something. Go right ahead and keep thinking this is simply about Wall Street and there is no crisis. Those of us who will be the first to be crushed by this are already taking the heat and know what is coming for you and your kind. I'm grateful I won't have to deal with your karma.

[L0oniX]

88. Thanks for the insult ...you make my case.

[olkaz]

59. This is ridiculous.

I'm not letting fear rule me.

I'm looking out for my freaking family, and I'm not going to apologize for it.

[President Decider]

62. **ORDER IN THE ROOM, ORDER IN THE ROOM!!** A deal will get done folks, just not today

Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, BuyBuy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, BuyBuy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy,Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, BuyBuy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, BuyBuy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy,Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, BuyBuy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, BuyBuy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy,Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, BuyBuy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, BuyBuy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy,Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, BuyBuy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, BuyBuy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy,Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, BuyBuy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, BuyBuy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy,Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, BuyBuy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, BuyBuy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy,Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, BuyBuy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, BuyBuy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy,Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, BuyBuy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, BuyBuy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy,Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, BuyBuy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, BuyBuy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy,Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, BuyBuy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, BuyBuy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy,Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, BuyBuy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, BuyBuy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy,Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, BuyBuy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, BuyBuy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy,Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, BuyBuy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, BuyBuy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy,Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, BuyBuy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, BuyBuy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy,Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, BuyBuy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, BuyBuy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy,Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, BuyBuy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, BuyBuy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy,Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, BuyBuy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, BuyBuy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy,Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, BuyBuy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, BuyBuy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy,Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, BuyBuy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, BuyBuy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy,Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, BuyBuy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, BuyBuy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy,Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, BuyBuy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, BuyBuy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy,Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, BuyBuy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, BuyBuy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy,Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, BuyBuy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, BuyBuy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy,Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, BuyBuy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, BuyBuy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy,Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, BuyBuy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, BuyBuy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy,Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, BuyBuy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, BuyBuy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy,Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, BuyBuy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, BuyBuy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy,Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, BuyBuy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, BuyBuy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy,Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, BuyBuy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, BuyBuy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy,Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, BuyBuy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, BuyBuy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy,Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, BuyBuy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, BuyBuy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy,

[Zynx]

78. You just wiped out $700 billion in market value in one day.

Congratulations. You are so dead wrong on this it isn't even funny.

[debbierlus]

85. Wow. I am some powerful woman. You are directing your anger at the WRONG person

[L0oniX]

96. Seems that there is a lot of that going on here on DU today.

Lots of people venting on everyone else here. Nice place ...if you like getting insulted. It makes me feel young again because it's like being in high school again.

:evilgrin:

[MaineDem]

81. I don't agree with you.

I truly believe we have to do something. This plan is better than Bush's initial plan. The GOP killed it.

[Phx_Dem]

91. Wrong.

You might want to actually read the plan.

The Bush/Paulsen plan was dead on arrival. While Bush and the Republican are responsible for this disaster, we do need an economic plan to dig us out of this hole. The plan was not a "giveaway" and it did not hand over cash with no oversight. The taxplayers weren't necessarily "out the money." There were protections in place to protect the taxpayer money and we may have been able to recoup the money (maybe ven made a profit -- some economists thought there was a very good chance of seeing a profit on that money) a few years or more down the road. It also allowed the government to reassess consumer mortgages to determine if they could be refinanced to avoid foreclosure -- that benefits everyone and the housing market in general.

I'm not going to describe the entire plan just because you didn't bother to read it.

[ClarkUSA]

94. Educate yourself. Here are a few of the bill's provisons that are good for taxpayers --->

:redbox: The Treasury is supposed to consider a bunch of factors when making its decisions, including:

~ Limiting how much the taxpayer gets screwed
~ Not wasting money buying assets from banks that will croak anyway
~ Save jobs, life savings, house values, etc
~ Try to save small banks that got blown up by Fannie/Freddie collapse
~ Protect retirement savings by buying the crap assets of pension funds, too

:redbox: Oversight: Must report back to Congress after 60 days and then every 30 days thereafter. Must send Congress
a report after every $50 billion spent.

:redbox: "The Secretary make such purchases at the lowest price that the Secretary determines to be consistent with the
purposes of this Act." The Treasury has to publicly detail the prices it pays so taxpayers will have access to complete
transparency as to how their dollars are being spent.

:redbox: Helping homeowners. Must try to work with homeowners to modify loans if/when appropriate to avoid foreclosure.
Must encourage mortgage servicers to try not to boot people out of houses, instead working on ways to avoid
foreclosures.

:redbox: Equity/warrants: The Treasury MUST be granted warrants or debt instruments (senior debt) from public companies
in exchange for more than $100 million of bailout money; it must "provide for reasonable participation by the Secretary,
for the benefit of taxpayers, in equity appreciation in the case of a warrant, or a reasonable interest rate premium, in
the case of a debt instrument" AND...must provide additional protection against taxpayer losses. This is an important
and just provision.

:redbox: Ability to stop the madness. Congress can seek a preliminary or permanent injunction from a court to stop the
program.

:redbox: TIME LIMIT: The authority under the plan lasts until the end of 2009. Congress can then extend for another nine
months or so (max 2 years from the date of signing). It is fully expected that by then President Obama and his
supporters in Congress will rework the bill to reflect their growing majority power in the executive and legislative
branches.

:redbox: Oversight: A bunch of oversight provisions, including appointment of Special Inspector General.

:redbox: Financial industry will have to pay for any taxpayer losses. Upon the expiration of the 5-year period beginning
upon the date of the enactment of this Act...the President shall submit a legislative proposal that recoups from the
financial industry an amount equal to the shortfall in order to ensure that the Troubled Asset Relief Program does
not add to the deficit or national debt.