If I were Alaskan, I'd consider being a member of AIP as well.

[cherokeeprogressive]

The good ole'' U S of A really fucked the Alaskans after buying their land from the Russians. It seems as though our gubmint acted in it's finest colonial tradition when they told the people of Alaska that their only option in 1958 was to vote for statehood, or against it. The United Nations Charter says that isn't supposed to be the limit of their choices. I'm not sure they're radical, and don't believe they're fringe.

If you go read their website, you'll see that they don't INSIST on secession. What they want is what should have been theirs in the first place; the right to self-determination, according to UN Charter. They want the chance to legally vote on their own destiny. From their website:

The Alaskan Independence Party's goal is the vote we were entitled to in 1958, one choice from among the following four alternatives:
1) Remain a Territory.
2) Become a separate and Independent Nation.
3) Accept Commonwealth status.
4) Become a State.
The call for this vote is in furtherance of the dream of the Alaskan Independence Party's founding father, Joe Vogler, which was for Alaskans to achieve independence under a minimal government, fully responsive to the people, promoting a peaceful and lawful means of resolving differences.

Does that sound radical to you? It sure doesn't to me. Consider this: The US tells you that you can become a state or not, and if not, you're still going to be a colony (in direct opposition with UN Charter). Then the US government starts telling you what part of your own land you can use for your common good. Over 75% of the land your ancestors lived on for thousands of years are OFF LIMITS to you. We'll call it the Alaskan National Wildlife Preserve, and now you're NOT TO USE IT TO SUPPORT THE BETTERMENT OF YOUR LIVES, OR THOSE OF YOUR PROGENY. Oh, and the only reason the US is interested in your wilderness in the first place is because they know the enormity of its natural resources. THEN, the US starts appropriating your resources for the lower 48.

I don't know about you, but I'd be pretty resentful of that whole situation, and wish to make up my mind for myself now having all the facts at hand concerning UN Charter on self-determination that was withheld back when. Tie that with what was most CERTAINLY voting irregularities and discrimination, and I'd be even more resentful. Surely, non-whites were not given the choice, and I'd bet that no one bothered to travel into the wilderness to find every Alaskan that was eligible to vote.

It's almost funny, but we here at DU HATE the US tendency toward colonialism and imperialism, but tell a candidate that it's a deal breaker to belong to an organization critical of it.

I bet the Hawaiians feel basically the same way. Not the haolies, but the real Hawaiians.

I hate to have to state this caveat each time I'm critical of some attitudes here, but I'M VOTING FOR OBAMA AND NOT DEFENDING REPUG IDEALS. I'm just pointing out that I don't believe many of us have bothered to check into this party's intent and reason for existence.

Donning the Nomex now.

http://www.akip.org/index.html

[PBS Poll-435]

1. WTF? Yeah....ok

:grr:

[cherokeeprogressive]

2. Well reasoned and eloquent response. You read fast!

[PBS Poll-435]

5. Yeah, I do read fast.

What is your point here?

[cherokeeprogressive]

8. I guess it's that you made no point?

Did you read their stated goals? Check into their website? How do you feel about American colonialism, or imperialism?

Would you be pissed if you were in the shoes of native Alaskans?

[PBS Poll-435]

15. Staded goals?

Grow the F up already.

What a sad waste of bandwidth.

[endthewar]

33. Agreed. AIP is despicable for any national politician to be involved with.

Alaska gets a ton of earmark money from other states for stupid projects like their Bridge to Nowhere. So they actually cost more than they contribute to the US economy. Also, I think being a member of this group is by itself the definition of being unpatriotic. Hard to argue that you're a patriot when you're in favor of secession. Abe Lincoln is rolling over in his grave over this Palin pick. :rofl:

[Hugabear]

3. They're a state now, that's what counts

Fuck it, why don't we just allow every state in the Union to decide whether they want to remain part of the US or not? Do you realize that there are at least half a dozen current secessionist movements throughout the United States?

[WeDidIt]

4. Go listen to their convention recording

They even call the thing a SECESSION CONVENTION.

[cherokeeprogressive]

6. Did you read their goals?

[WeDidIt]

13. Yes, did you LISTEN to their goals?

As is the case with most radical organizations, the web site is made quite tame compared to the rhetoric in person:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHFY1otOWjQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9RDjKN8t4w

[cherokeeprogressive]

17. I don't disagree that the speaker is a kook. I'm trying to walk a mile in Native Alaskan shoes.

I couldn't find anything on the website that wasn't historically correct. Granted, I didn't spend more than this afternoon reading.

[WeDidIt]

18. Let me put this into context

I was suspicious about the whole AIP story until I found out the FBI had not done a background check on Palin.

There's a lot that she'd pass on a routing FBI background check, but at this level it's for the topmost security classification.

Membership in the AIP would keep her from the highest security clearance possible. It's that radical.

[cherokeeprogressive]

20. Do we know who else may have been a party member? Repugs or Dems?

Surely it's not only a REPUG organization, is it?

[WeDidIt]

22. It's not a Republican organizaton at all

It's a completely separate political party all on its own.

Sort of like the American Communist PArty, which membership in will also comepletely disqualify you from a top secret security clearance.

[cherokeeprogressive]

26. Does the fact that I have a tribal roll number disqualify ME from a security clearance?

Nope. Had one. I won't say which. My job in NavAir required one. Even my school teachers and neighbors were contacted.

And I'm PROUD of my heritage and it's history of activism, but not so proud of its accomplishments.

[Bicoastal]

7. All I know is I'm glad Obama doesn't belong to any group wanting Hawaii to secede from the Union.

That would be political death for him.

[vaberella]

11. He's TREA-SON free!! ^_^ n/t

[vaberella]

9. It's a state now though. So it's TREA-SON!! Country before State, as McCain likes to say. n/t

[LisaL]

10. And that somehow would make you a good VP material?

[cherokeeprogressive]

12. No. But screaming it from the rooftops wouldn't make it a dealbreaker once I looked into it. n/t

[orestes]

14. Might not make it a deal breaker for *you*

but how many Americans, especially the much ballyhooed "low information voters", are going to look that far into it, or would care about all that if they did?

[grantcart]

16. Yes and they wrote all of their most radical positions right on top

of their party platform lol



And if the United States didn't defend it how many minutes would it have been before Canada or Russia moved in.

[cherokeeprogressive]

19. Platform

We pledge to exert our best efforts to accomplish the following:

To effect full compliance with the constitutions of the United States of America and the State of Alaska.

To support and defend States' Rights, Individual Rights, Property Rights, and the Equal Footing Doctrine as guaranteed by the constitutions of the United States of America and the state of Alaska.

To advocate the convening of a State Constitutional Convention at the constitutionally designated 10 year interval.

To reinforce the unalienable rights endowed by our Creator to Alaska law, by eliminating the use of the word "privilege" in the Alaska statutes.

To amend the Constitution of the State of Alaska so as to re-establish the rights of all Alaskan residents to entry upon all public lands within the state, and to acquire private property interest there in, under fair and reasonable conditions. Such property interest shall include surface and sub-surface patent.

To foster a constitutional amendment abolishing and prohibiting all property taxes.

To seek the complete repatriation of the public lands, held by the federal government, to the state and people of Alaska in conformance with Article 1, Section 8, Clause 17, of the federal constitution.

To prohibit all bureaucratic regulations and judicial rulings purporting to have the effect of law, except that which shall be approved by the elected legislature.

To preserve and protect the Alaska Permanent Fund, Permanent fund earnings, earnings reserve fund and individual Permanent Fund Dividends.

To provide for the direct popular election of the attorney general, all judges, and magistrates.

To provide for the development of unrestricted, statewide, surface transportation and utility corridors as needed by the public or any individual.

To affirm and assert every possible right-of-way established under R.S. 2477 of July 26, 1866, before its repeal by the Federal Land Management Policy Act of October 21, 1976.

To support the right of the individual to keep and bear arms.

To support the complete abolition of the concept of sovereign or governmental immunity, so as to restore accountability for public servants.

To support the rights of parents to privately or home school their children.

To support the privatization of government services.

To oppose the borrowing of money by government for any purposes other than for capital improvements.

To strengthen the traditional family and support individual accountability without government interference or regulation.

To support the right of jurors to judge the law as well as the facts, according to their conscience.

To support "Jobs for Alaskans...First!"

Radical? Tell me which part you find MOST radical. I'd like to know.

[grantcart]

21. That's my point they are not going to put their radical positions in writing

do a little investigating and you will find that these people are conspirators. There is always a bullshit position for the public consumption.

The platform makes it look like they want to uphold the constitution of the United States and there are videos showing that they want to secede from the US - funny they don't put that into the platform isn't it.



"traditional family" just means they get to tell you what they think is traditional. These are grade A nut jobs which is clear if you watch their video or you can read their brother and brother in laws thread in GDP.

[cherokeeprogressive]

23. Fuck Alaska, and Fuck Alaskans. Afterall, we bought their asses AND their land from Russia.

I'm a card-carrying member of the Cherokee Nation. I have a beef.

Now it's our RIGHT to tell them what do do with land their ancestors lived on? Tell that to my relatives in Tahlequah, OK.

I'm not down with that.

Again, you're talking to a 100%er here. 100% Obama backer.

Give Alaska back to the Alaskans, Hawaii back to the Hawaiians, Guam back to the Guamanians, PR back to the Puerto Ricans, and EVERY other colonial acquisition back to it's rightful inhabitants.

Only THEN can we focus on what's wrong with the contiguous United States.

[Hugabear]

24. What about the entire Southwestern US?

Should we give California, New Mexico, Arizona, and Utah back to Mexico?

[cherokeeprogressive]

27. YUP.

[endthewar]

37. Oh please stop!

:crazy:

Where does it end? Should we renegotiate the Louisiana Purchase too? :crazy:

[grantcart]

38. really now should we give it back to the Russians who had the first claims on it

or the Spanish that actually sent people here with services (althought they were Catholic missions and tended to try and completely take away the native culture). Please don't suggest the Mexicans because the Mexican government never extended any services of anykind here until, after begging 10,000 Americans to come they ripped up their constitution and then sent an army to try and take back what the Americans had built.

How about we just start with returning the Gadsen Purchase - would that be a good start with you?

[endthewar]

39. What about the dinosaurs? Aren't they the true owners of this land?

Seeing how they were here before all of us? Let's contact some paleontologists to get their expert opinions on what the dinosaurs last wishes would have been. :rofl:

[Hugabear]

46. Now you are being ridiculous. How far back should we take it?

Maybe we should just pack up and ship back to Europe? But wait - you can go back even further than that! Should the English leave the British Isles and leave it to the Celts? History is replete with examples of groups of people immigrating and conquering other peoples. How far back should we take this?

For that matter, what about the Native Americans? Not all of them were peace-loving, how many of them had conquered other Native American groups? Who gets to play referee and make sure that EVERY SINGLE GROUP goes back to their "original" starting point?

[LanternWaste]

49. Is there a precise and relevant amount of time

Is there a precise and relevant amount of time in which a culture may continue to hold moral and legal claims to a track of land that had been lost? If so, what is that amount of time and on what is it based?

I think it's safe to surmise that your amount of time would be at least 130 years old (as Seward's Folly was in 1876, yes?). If that is indeed the case, do all peoples of any culture woldwide, which have been conquered in the last 130 years have the same moral right to "secede" from their parent government for no other reason that historicity?

[Lithos]

36. You do realize

The AIP does not primarily consist of, nor does it target itself towards Native Americans? Most of the members, like Sarah Palin, came into Alaska LONG after it was a state.

This is not a Native American movement by any stretch, but just another iteration of the Posse Commitatus/Common Law groups.

See:

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/orgs/american/adl/paranoia-as-patriotism/posse-comitatus.html
http://www.adl.org/mwd/COMMON.asp

It would be rather interesting to do some background work on Sarah's dad as she and he came out of the same area of Idaho that many of these same Common Law people came from.

L-


On Edit: These people hate the Federal Government so much that the 27 million dollar pork spending Sarah did along with the funds she absconded during the Bridge to Nowhere project makes this even all the more hypocritical.

[grantcart]

41. In the tapes they admit that they have absolutely no support of the tribes in Alaska

[Lithos]

43. Not surprising

There is a distinctly racist undercurrent to many of these groups.

L-

[MadHound]

48. Then there wouldn't be a United States,

Since every single piece of land in this country is a colonial acquisition:shrug: That's nice and idealistic, but it's not going to happen, sorry.

[BlooInBloo]

25. Then you should never hold national office.

[cherokeeprogressive]

29. Oh, I never could. After serving my country, I wasn't the most trustworthy person on the block.

In fact, opening my closet would result in bones FLYING OUT of it, from more skeletons than is needed to fill your average graveyard. I don't have any illusions about that.

[MarjorieG]

28. Alaskans want the resources just for Alaska. Just points to Alaska-centric Palin world view.

[cherokeeprogressive]

31. So the resources of Alaska SHOULD belong to the people who reside in the lower 48?

People who've likely never been there, nor have plans to go?

Please understand that Palin isn't part of my argument. I could give a shit about her and McWorse and plan to vote for Obama.

[endthewar]

40. They should be shared by the country

I didn't see Alaska objecting to all of those earmarks given to them by Congress.

[MarjorieG]

45. Actually, we were there and talked to many, many who want whatever they can get from the resources.

That's their income. Given the climate change issue, I would hope we could have a more reasoned approach, varied economy. Sarah is the extreme flat-earth gal, with a financial disaster of a Trans-Canada pipeline.

[Hugabear]

47. Every state for itself? You display an amazing lack of reality here

Just about every fucking state has resources that it shares with the rest of the nation. Why should Alaska be any different?

By the way, do you really think that the AIP has the interest of Native Americans in mind?

[Neshanic]

30. Rather harsh for not showing Alaska on the weather maps for the lower 48 don'tcha think?

[cherokeeprogressive]

32. Um, nope. I live in So. Cal. Watch the ticker on CNN about weather forcasts by city.

Weather for Cody, WY is there, but L.A. isn't. It's like L.A. doesn't exist.

[Neshanic]

35. Well you give LA back to Mexico first, and then us Phoenicians will give back then after you.

[AkFemDem]

34. I'm Alaskan and I don't think this is universally Alaskan

I have no desire to vote on statehood. I'm American.

Most Alaskans are not generations-old anyway, most of us are a hodge podge of 1st and 2nd generation Alaskan who have married or bred into older families.

I imagine most states were "gotten" through means that could be in some way challenged. Milk is already spilled though and now there are 50 of us.

[sandnsea]

42. There are separatist groups all over the west

They all have their excuses and various methods of protest. That's what the Freemen were in Montana, with the stand-off. The commander of the Michigan Militia went to Alaska and joined the AIP. Your post is ridiculous.

[jcla]

44. Don't just smear the West... Vermont has long had it own

separatist group wanting to breakaway from the US and really become the Independent Republic of Vermont (AGAIN). It has gotten many more supporters but little money during the Bush Administration which is almost universally hated up there. There was even talk of joining Canada... which was quickly quelled. (It is a third party thing when we get fed up with Rethugs and Demos and/or a quirky Vermont thing.)