Criticize Palin all you want, but it would be nice to see no more posts snarking on the following:

[Berry Cool]

--that her college degree is from a state university

--that her degree is from the University of Idaho

--that her degree is in journalism

Considering that:

--some of us here have state university degrees and are plenty smart

--some of us here probably have University of Idaho degrees and are plenty smart

--some of us here have journalism degrees and are plenty smart

--some of us surely don't have ANY college degree at all, yet are plenty smart

we shouldn't have to read this garbage. It's every bit as offensive as the stuff people are complaining about as being sexist.

So, if you want to criticize Sarah Palin, go to town. Talk about how her accomplishments and experience, or lack thereof, make her a lousy VP candidate. If you don't regard what she's saying or doing as the mark of an intelligent woman after you get to know things about her, say so.

But can it with the "She's a journalism major from the University of Idaho--therefore she's got to be dumber than a box of rocks" crap.

[frogcycle]

1. ok, point taken

but she is, after all, dumber than a box of rocks.

[muntrv]

2. How about Palin is so Talibornagain, she makes Regent University secular?

[Turn CO Blue]

3. Can we still snark about her go-go boots?

[jgraz]

18. How dare you attack a woman's choice of footwear!

C'mon, we've got an election to lose!!

[Abacus]

4. Got it; arguments relating not only to character but also education are now off limits.

I just hope none of us are mayors, we might offend one of those too.

I'm willing to bet most of us attended or are attending state schools and that's great, but if any one of us hope to run for office of the presidency, a BA in journalism with zero relevant experience isn't going to cut it. No offense.

[jgraz]

10. All this while the Repugs are sending out emails saying our guy is a closet Al-Qaeda plant

But please! Let's make sure that everyone's feelings are taken into account before we go after the Dominionist stalking horse who may end up in charge of the country. :eyes:

[Mrs. Overall]

5. So now it's not alright to look at her educational background because some DUers have

journalism degrees, and some DUers might not have degrees, and some DUers went to small universities, and some DUers might be plenty smart?

Jesus Christ, this woman might be the next leader of the most powerful country in the world and will be confronted with a variety of very important issues. I think her education, her college, her GPA, her choice of studies--all of this does matter. I don't care who gets offended--in the face of war, global climate change, the energy crisis, the global financial crisis, etc... I want my president to be fucking brilliant!!

[justiceischeap]

8. You don't care if it offends the voters you're hoping to swing?

You don't care if it offends the voters that are all of the above?

Attack her GPA, attack her lack of continued education, attack her lack of knowledge about World affairs or the Iraq war but just don't attack the school and the degree itself... can't you see how that would offend voters and could actually backfire?

[Mrs. Overall]

11. I've got a BA in English Lit. and Latin. Would I want my next president to have those credentials?

No.

Would I be offended if people critiqued them?

No.

We're talking about the most powerful office in the world. Wow, the dumbing down of America has obviously been a raging success.

[justiceischeap]

12. So I'm dumb because I don't want to offend potential voters?

Call me an idiot then because I'd rather have them swing our way on the issues instead of theirs because our party insulted their education.

:wow:

[jgraz]

15. Not dumb, just a slow learner.

Check back on the last 10 presidential elections. You may notice a pattern there.

[Mrs. Overall]

17. I can not believe this. We are talking about the Vice President of the US--

and educational background is off limits because it might offend?

I want those in high offices to have more than a BA in journalism from Idaho. Sorry, if that offends. I want my children's teachers to have teaching credentials from good schools and I want my doctors to have the appropriate degrees and experience.

I would like to recommend Susan Jacoby's recent book, "The Age of American Unreason" as it tackles this very issue.

[Johonny]

23. I agree

but then I'm better educated than the vice president wanna be. So I guess I don't feel offensive when I say her educational back ground is pretty laughable for someone that is suppose to you know lead me as leader of the free world. The moran believes in creationism. What is it 1850 all of a sudden?

[justiceischeap]

53. Not once did I say that her degree or the college she attended made her qualified

My point this entire time has been simple:

Obama supporter walks up to Independent voter not sure who they are going to vote for. You decide to pull out your best argument. "Can you believe the Republicans nominated that dimwit? She only has a BS in journalism from U of Idaho. Obama has 2 degrees and one's from Harvard."

The person looks at you, mouth agape and says, "Oh, I see, I went to U of Idaho and I majored in Journalism. So I'm a dimwit, that's what you're saying?"

"No, I'm saying our Vice President can't be intelligent because she went to your school and majored in Journalism."

"Oh, so now I don't have a good education and I'm unintelligent?"

Do you see how you lose the argument? You have turned the potential voter off by insulting his/her alma mater and they will no longer listen to anything else you have to say because you've alienated them by insulting them. Even if they aren't qualified to be VP or POTUS.

Insult me all you want, I'm voting for Obama/Biden but as a former activist whose job it was to make people see my point of view on my issue, you have to know how to dress your points without making the person you're addressing tune out before you even get to your argument. I for one am not trying to police what anyone is saying but take a cue from the Obama campaign, there's a reason they're not attacking her alma mater or major, there are reasons they are "playing" nice.

[WinkyDink]

49. I wouldn't mind (MEd/English here)!

[TwixVoy]

65. You are right those are crap degrees

and I would not be impressed with anyone who had them for ANY job.... but it would still offend people to tell them that.

[elocs]

13. I don't think many people here at DU care who they offend,

otherwise you would not see the routine trashing of millions of Americans as gullible fools because they are Christians.

[Mrs. Overall]

21. Please stop with the offending. We on DU are doing the vetting that McCain should have done.

Critically looking at the candidates and dissecting their lives is part of the public aspect of political office.

Who said anything about trashing millions of Christians? I will, however, look at Palin's involvement in the Assembly of God church and her views on abortion, birth control, creationism, the second coming, and the separation of church and state.

[Mrs. Overall]

22. Sorry, Dupe. I hope my accidental Dupe didn't offend.

[elocs]

24. Christianity is simply an example of how many here do not care who they offend

and I stand by that observation.

[jgraz]

29. Some people have a vested interest in being offended.

[Berry Cool]

32. And some people have an equally vested interest in offending.

[Mimosa]

57. Eloks, I agree: stereotyping is chronic

This has been one thing which has always bothered me at DU. Sometimes some posters lack basic tolerance of other viewpoints. For instance do they think Obama is 'faking' his Christian faith for political ambitions? I don't. I believe he is a genuine small c christian as I am. I may not like Jimmy Carter all that much but he is a christian and a democrat.

Anyhow, there are so many variations of christians, muslims or any other faith we can name. I try not to stereotype anybody. I definitely do not think Gov. Palin is qualified to be vice-president and the reasons are many. If I had to expound upon them to a swing voter I think I could do it without insulting him or her. ;)

[Abacus]

9. Whew,

I was beginning to think I was the only one left.

[BlooInBloo]

34. Yup. That's how stupid people perpetuate themselves - by not allowing us to hope for better.

[Left Is Write]

35. No, it's okay to look at her educational background.

It's okay to say that her limited education and limited resume make her unqualified for the office of VP. I completely agree with that assessment.

It is not okay to insinuate that everyone who goes to U of I and/or majors in journalism is of subpar intelligence, which some posts have implied and, in at least one case, have stated outright.

[Berry Cool]

40. Thank you, very much.

Exactly my point. And to think we're going to lose an election because I believe that..well, that's drama-queen nonsense. We're not going to "OH NOES!" lose an election because I suggested there might be a better way to score points against McCain-Palin than calling her dumb for those reasons. We've got plenty of other ammunition against them. Let's use it.

[Mrs. Overall]

42. I guess I missed the posts that spoke negatively of the University of Idaho

and journalism majors. Yes, that is not appropriate, but critically judging Palin's education in terms of VP and potentially POTUS should not be off limits.

[Berry Cool]

44. I agree. But I have seen the negative and generalized snark

and I don't like it.

I don't want Palin and McSame any more than anyone else here, but neither do I want to read constant denigration of her for reasons THAT flimsy.

[Left Is Write]

52. I agree with you.

I've been very vocal in my criticism of her experience and limited education as it relates to the positions of VP and POTUS.

I just draw the line at mocking others who don't deserve it (e.g., journalism majors are, by definition, "less than bright").

[seabeyond]

50. i was shocked as shit when i was told not to talk about education or lack there of,... tooo

was a big wtf

and they will give you a list of what you can talk about. i had another poster kindly and without me asking do that for me

bah hahahaha

du is getting funny

must be cause we are all so afraid, or so another poster says if we talk about this stuff

[redqueen]

6. This is about the person who might be a heartbeat away from the presidency, not you

or anyone else who ignores context in order to be offended. Good God.

[jgraz]

7. Oh great, another thing we need to tiptoe around

Name one person with a journalism degree from Idaho who's qualified to be president. THAT's the point.

I promise, after we win this we'll all join hands in a self-esteem circle to make everyone feel good about the fact that we finally won a fucking election. :eyes:

[Berry Cool]

19. Let me make something clear for people who seem determined to deliberately miss MY point:

You want to criticize Palin's education as not being fit for a future VP a heartbeat away from the presidency? Fair game.

You want to call her stupid simply because she has a state-school degree, or a journalism degree, or a BA? Not fair game.

See, you can say a person is undereducated for the VP position based on those grounds, and I have no quarrel with that. It's when she is called "stupid" based on those grounds that I have a problem.

Now, if you want to offend people by calling Palin "stupid" on the basis of her education, go ahead. Anyone who does so will just be revealing their own ignorance.

If you want to carp about her education, carp about it relative to the position she's up for. Not as a blanket condemnation of her intellect.

[jgraz]

26. I get your point exactly: it's more important to you that we police our language

that that we actually win an election.

[Berry Cool]

30. When did I say I wanted anyone to police their language or that I wanted us to lose the election?

Do you honestly think that we're in a zero-sum game here in which our alternatives are:

--convince the voting public that Sarah Palin is stupid because she's a journalism-school graduate or because of the school she attended

or

--lose the election?

Because if you really believe THAT false dilemma is valid, I'd love to know whether you ever took a logic class and, if so, what grade you received.

[jgraz]

36. You're practically writing a script for us all to adhere to

"Say this", "don't say this". It's ridiculous pandering to the perpetually offended among us. It's worrying about crap that we don't need to worry about. It's being so afraid of causing offense that we come off as weak and timid.

7 out of 10 elections. We've lost 7 out of 10 elections. And you want to keep reading from the same stale Democratic playbook.

[Berry Cool]

43. I said what I would LIKE us to do. How does that constitute "practically writing a script for us all

to adhere to"?

All I did was express a wish that people would think. For grief's sake.

"Pandering to the perpetually offended among us" is a blanket accusation on your part, and I reject it.

I am not "perpetually offended." THIS, however, offends me.

I DO think we need to worry about it, and that it is not "crap." It has nothing to do with the "stale Democratic playbook," it has to do with being a decent human being. It creates an unwelcoming climate on DU, and that is useful how?

I for one believe we are going to win this election. And we don't need this to do it.

And here you are, vigorously defending your right to call people with certain degrees from certain schools stupid, and acting like--my stars!--there's an ELECTION at stake and if you don't do this, we will LOSE!

What a heap of nonsense.

[elocs]

14. Damn! It's a good thing I'm not running for VP because I have a journalism degree

from a state university. I guess I never appreciated how second class it is supposed to be.

[jgraz]

16. Oh please. Are your feelings really bruised because you're not qualified be VP?

If so, a mediocre education is the least of your problems.

[elocs]

20. I'm assuming you are not so stupid that you did not get my point.

Or maybe you simply chose not to get it? So if people attend a state school they should not be qualified to be president or vice president? I thought we were Democrats here.

[jgraz]

25. Of course we're Democrats! Here we are working hard to lose an election.

If she was the Democratic pick for VP, the Repugs would be using everything they could to make her look like a dangerous lightweight -- bent feelings be damned. Of course, they've only won 7 of the last 10 presidential elections, so what do they know?

[Berry Cool]

28. So just because they're snobby and disparaging, we have to be snobby and disparaging, too.

Yet another example of the "They play dirty, so we have to play dirty too or we will never win" argument.

Frankly, I prefer Barack Obama's approach. He doesn't seem to think we have to play dirty in order to win. From what I can see of him, he appears to be able to make a strong and forceful case for himself, and a strong and forceful case against his opposition, without having to grasp at desperate straws. Maybe that's because he realizes that when your opponent is already slipping on a banana peel, there's no need to sneak up behind him and kick him in the ass.

This is not about concern about "feelings being hurt" on the Repug side. This is about DU'ers saying offensive things in front of other DU'ers that they assume they can get away with because they foolishly assume everyone else on DU is like them. Such as: she's gotta be a mental lightweight, she only has a BA/she went to the University of Idaho/she went to journalism school.

You honestly don't see how that is vastly different from "I don't think her education and experience qualify her for the position"?

See, the problem comes in when you say you want "the smartest person in the room" to be VP, and then you assume she's not the smartest person in the room because of those reasons.

I don't know what kind of credentials a person has to possess before you assume that person is the smartest person in the room, but please remember, the current occupant of the White House has a bachelor's degree in history from Yale and a Harvard MBA. Gotta be a regular Einstein, doesn't he? Hmm, maybe not so much.

Maybe it's time to stop judging people on the basis of their college degrees, or lack thereof, and more on what kind of person they are, and what kind of intelligence reveals itself from what they say and do.

[jgraz]

31. Threads like this are why so many people can't stand liberals

Seriously, do you have any idea how annoying the perpetually offended act is? Mix in a little finely-detailed language policing and you've got the recipe for yet another loss for the Dems.

[Berry Cool]

37. You don't even know me as a person, yet you assume I have a "perpetually offended act."

Also, that I want to "language police."

And you imply that we're going to lose the election because of people like me.

Well, I think I just got a big sense of why so many people "can't stand liberals," but it doesn't have to do with what you think it does.

Some people call themselves liberals, yet they spend a lot of time accusing others of being "perpetually offended."

The people they accuse of being "perpetually offended"? Others who disagree with them and say so.

How this makes them different from conservatives who accuse African Americans of being "perpetually offended" or women of being "perpetually offended" or gays of being "perpetually offended" and so on, I don't know. To me, it's all the same.

It all translates as: "You don't like what I said, therefore you are being politically correct and overly sensitive, and should lighten up."

[jgraz]

38. I'm sorry, did I offend you?

:rofl:

[Berry Cool]

45. Yes.

:rofl: And I'm going to bow out here, because eventually, well, it'll happen to you too.

[jgraz]

27. Hey, at least a degree from Idaho guarantees one thing:

she can probably spell "potato(e)"

[BlooInBloo]

33. HAHAHAHAHA!!!!

[seabeyond]

51. lol lol lol.

i dont know why your post struck me as so funny. lol lol. maybe i need sleep

[Bonobo]

39. What a loaf of HORSE-SHIT.

If you want to be POTUS, you better bring more than:

A State College Degree.

A degree in Journalism

And be plenty smart.

Sorry, you may be a nice person with the above, but you can't be my POTUS.

Period.

[BlooInBloo]

41. +1

EDIT: I'm someone with a state college degree - one of them at least.

[Berry Cool]

46. And I just made your point above, Bonobo.

Did you pay any attention?

No one in this entire thread ever claimed Palin deserved to be VP for being "nice." No one even said she was "nice."

That's a straw man.

Enough.

[dkf]

47. I have a degree from a state university...and I defer to the smarts

of the editor of the Harvard Law Review any day.

[bridgit]

48. We have a SIL that has a 6 year journalism degree from Chico St, he works in another field...

but has that as his basis...he provides tremendously so for hubby's daughter and 4 children; the ground upon which she & they walk he worships. They have just bought a house up in the puget sound, on a quaint little island that many DUer's would pine for, for mountains of money in a very, very desirable location...

It is folly to think that a mere journalism degree would not bare fruit, that much is determined by the holder of the degree

[K8-EEE]

54. She's under-educated AND inexperienced for the job she's applying for

IMO....

Shit you need a master's to be hired to be a CEO of any large company -- just like anybody else, if your academic creds are mediocre, you're supposed to come up bigger on experiences or accomplishments.

She's way in over her head. Not for every job, but for the one she has and the one she wants.

[RoadRage]

55. It's not the lack of education...

It's the fact that the GOP is currently trying to compare her with Obama based on the "experience" issue. And, I don't think many here would argue that there is a slight difference between a journalism degree from the University of Idaho, and a LAW degree from Harvard.

It's not about intelligence - but it IS somewhat important for the next possible President of the United States to have a degree (possibly a Masters if not a doctorate).

I don't care what university it's from - but something in Polly Science, Law, Business, etc. might be good.

I guess I need to go find the job description for Vice President... Palin should probably do the same since she was just last month questioning what exactly the VP does.

[ChazII]

56. Thank you for your common sense. n.t

[TwilightGardener]

58. Yep, she's equal to Hillary and Obama--they with their Ivy League

Law degrees, why do they think they should be President? They should have stopped at bachelors', and never went on to further academic achievements, because it only makes them look smarty-pants. Lord knows, I ruined myself for President when I pursued a second degree after my BA. How stupid, to want to learn as much as possible. How stupid, to believe that college and degrees matter. Why do those dumb-ass high school seniors try so hard to get into top schools? It's meaningless, they should just save their money and ratchet down their snootiness and go to community college instead.

[Berry Cool]

62. You are setting up yet another straw man.

I never said she was "equal to Hillary and Obama." Indeed, I said the exact opposite.

Your attempt to accuse me of reverse snobbism by implying that I have a problem with people who went beyond the bachelor's degree, or that I have a problem with people who "want to learn as much as possible," or that I don't believe "colleges and degrees matter," is equally ridiculous, especially given my master's degree, which I earned on full scholarship.

So you will have to withdraw your accusations of anti-elitism when it comes to me.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

59. "Some of us" aren't potentially a heartbeat away from the presidency.

[flamingdem]

60. I disagree emphatically. I want my presidents to be smarter than me!

This is why I support Obama. He is highly trained and specialized in ... politics!

In this area we can afford to be elite.

[CreekDog]

61. I agree, although a being a professor of Constitutional Law at University of Chicago is impressive

if one is to be president.

[Berry Cool]

63. Sure is, and I never said it wasn't.

Goodness gracious, some people just fell all over themselves assembling straw men when they saw me post this. Trouble is, I never said the things so many of you accused me of.

Maybe more schools need to do a better job of teaching reading comprehension AND logic.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

64. People here are attacking her for that? Really?

I had no idea I was in such a bastion of the Ivy Leagues.

[Life Long Dem]

66. The attacks are purposely overboard, and they won't stop.

And the same people told us to stop attacking McSame.