For those of you supporting VP candidates who are personally opposed to abortion BUT

[LisaM]

say they will uphold all existing laws, what do you say to this?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121934377810560987.html


We need someone who will push back on stuff like this. It's my opinion that it's probably more difficult to get an abortion now than it was 20 years ago.

We cannot afford to turn back the clock on women's rights - though in this case, it's probably more progressive to go back in time.

Add in pharmacists who refuse to give out the morning after pill, health care plans that cover Viagra but not birth-control pills, abstinence-based sex "education" and we have a recipe for a world in which women will never progress.

Our platform and our candidates MUST BE pro choice. This is not a compromise issue.

[ronnykmarshall]

1. The RW has chipped away at Roe ..

We have to stop it.

We need leaders that are SOLID Pro-Choice and reproductive rights.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

2. Sorry.

I'm not a single issuer and the abortion issue is where logic goes to die. On both sides of the debate.

[LisaM]

4. I am not a single issue voter at all. But this has risen up to a crisis issue

Make no mistake, all this "faith-based" language is part of a larger campaign to get rid of women's rights.

[LisaM]

3. I know! I can't understand why people don't get it.

I find "personally opposed to abortion, BUT..." to be code language.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

6. Because there are a lot of people who honestly believe abortion to be evil....

....but do recognize it to be a necessary evil in circumstances.

That's not too hard to understand.

[JerseygirlCT]

13. Why?

Those of us who are passionately pro-choice are not pro-abortion. For some of us, abortion is not a good choice, and not one we could make for ourselves in good conscience.

However, we understand that just as we have the right to make that choice, the only person with the right to make a choice - whatever choice - for herself is the woman concerned. It's absolutely too important, too difficult a decision to be allowed to be made by anyone other than the individual woman.

[mkultra]

25. actually, im personally opposed to abortion :)

but i find the details of managing a system of legality for that matter to be abusive and unfair. I guess what im saying is that i believe scientifically that life begins at conception but that sometimes, a decision must be made between the life of the mother and the life of the child. That decision doesn't belong to the state and is better left in the hands of the mother.


does that sound like what your thinking it means?

[cynatnite]

5. My mom is opposed, but doesn't think the governemt should have a say...

She views abortion as a sad necessity. My mom is very RW, but she also knows that if abortion is illegal women will die. When she talks about it...it's more than just about choice. It's life or death.

I think she knew women who were forced to be pregnant against their will or may have known someone who died from an illegal abortion. She's very adamant about this issue which is why I think it's so personal for her.

[OmahaBlueDog]

You indirectly bring up an excellent point

Women of child bearing age have no living memory of illegal abortion.

Women over 50, who may have some memory of illegal abortion, probably view legal abortion much in the same manner as your mom; it's a necessary evil to prevent women from getting butchered.

Women under 50, OTOH, have known nothing but legal abortion, legal and easy access to the Pill, and have heard anti-abortion rhetoric all of their lives.

[LisaM]

17. I just don't see a cluster of cells as a human being. Sorry.

There are also people who consider IUDs and birth control pills to be abortificants. Sometimes (like today) I just get tired of the euphemisms.

[cynatnite]

18. My mother's POV about this shows what the days before legal abortion were like...

It makes me appreciate even more that we have choices about our bodies and it shows the dangers of what life would be like for women if abortion became illegal again.

[OmahaBlueDog]

7. I'm not following what a health care plan covering Viagra has to do with anything else you're saying

Are you saying women can't progress because there is a treatment for erectile disfunction?

[Chan790]

9. That made me curious too...

since in CT if you cover birth-control pills you have to cover ED meds and vice-versa. It would seem that being covered for both beats the heck of being covered for neither.

[LisaM]

14. Sorry, I edited it to add "but don't cover birth control pills"

I sent out an email to some friends earlier on the subject, and put it in there, and somehow thought I'd added it here as well.

My overall point is, if abortion laws become more restrictive, I don't find it very reassuring that a candidate for any office does nothing more than tell us he or she will "uphold existing laws".

[OmahaBlueDog]

16. I agree, but I think Roe is increasingly becoming a back burner issue for Dems

It's being eclipsed by the war, big picture healthcare, trade, GLBT issues.

I saw someone else in the thread say GLBT issues are their deal breaker. If John McSame is allowed to replace Justice Stevens with an Alito clone, you can kiss same-sex marriage good by along with legal abortion and a whole slew of other rights everyone currently take for granted.

[LisaM]

20. Of course McCain is worse. But that doesn't mean that we must compromise.

A couple of days ago I mentioned that Biden only had a 36% rating from NARAL and was told "Bullshit". I don't know if the person didn't believe me, or thought it didn't matter.

Mark my words. "Personally opposed to abortion" is code language. We wil vote for and elect people who are far better than McCain. But we should not let that mean that we don't work to improve women's and GLBT rights. It's an opportunity that we mustn't squander.

It's also my personal opinion that if we stick up for women's and GLBT rights, that you will find that these very same people are extremely strong on issues like the war and environment. See, that's one reason I care so deeply about these issues. I care very much about GLBT and women's rights on their face, but I don't think you'll find that candidates who are progressive on these issue will be against strengthening environmental laws or for oil-based wars.

[Chan790]

23. I couldn't agree more. n/m

[Lucinda]

8. I have the same view. Reduce the number via other means and make those

that are done as safe as possible.

[JerseygirlCT]

10. It's entirely possible to be completely pro-choice and against

abortion personally. I would not choose abortion myself, but I'll be damned if I or anyone get to make that decision for another woman. Or if anyone gets to make it for me.

Many of our most liberal legislators, and most supportive of women's rights, are personally opposed to abortion. John Kerry comes immediately to mind. I never doubted for a second where his priorities lay as a lawmaker or would have as president.

[Lisa0825]

11. Isn't that pro-choice?

I don't think abortion is a good thing, but it should be legal because it may be the best choice for the woman to make for herself. I think reducing the number of abortions shopuld be a goal, but it shoudl be done by increasing access to health care, contraceptives, education, etc. Does that make me a bad liberal?

[LisaM]

22. Well.......

I think we have to quit demonizing abortion. Ending an unwanted pregnancy a couple of weeks after it occurs just doesn't seem evil to me.

[Lisa0825]

24. Not evil, but a very tough decision for most women...

especially as it gets closer to the end of the 1st trimester, and beyond. An abortion can be as devastating as a miscarriage, depending on the individual's circumstances.

I don't consider it life at the moment of conception, but I do consider it a "potential life" from the time it is a medical pregnancy. That potential does get a lot of emotion wrapped up in it... positive and negative. I have not had an abortion myself, but my sister and 2 close friends have, and it was not a decision any of them made easily. It caused them a lot of emotional distress, wondering what the future could have been had they chosen differently, etc. If there is a way to reduce the number of women (and girls) who have to go through the emotionally difficult decision by preventing the unplanned pregnancies, rather that terminating them after the fact, then that's a positive thing for them.

[LisaM]

26. What do you think of RU486? n/t

[Lisa0825]

27. I think anything that makes abortion safer and less invasive is a good thing.

That's not my point though. It's the decision not to carry through a pregnancy that has been the part that was most traumatizing to my friends and my sister. Prevention is better because doesn't involve as much emotional involvement. Is that something you'd debate?

[LisaM]

28. I don't think it's cut and dried. For one thing, prevention depends on two people

and I don't know everyone's situation - were they pressured into sex? Was it an accident? Will the father take the same responsibility as the mother? Was it rape? Was it date rape? Did they use birth control that failed?

In a perfect world, men would take equal responsibility for preventing unwanted pregnancy. Since they don't in a lot of cases, I think that every option should be on the table, and I don't think we should ladle guilt onto women seeking abortions as an extra little dollop of shame. This occurs every time there is a roadblock - informing the father, informing the parents, pharmacists who won't distribute RU486, clinics that won't perform abortions, clinics that are threatened, doctors that are threatened, hospitals that refuse to perform the procedure - I could go on, but I think you can get the drift.

[Lisa0825]

29. Oh, I completely agree that all options should be on the table.

I only think prevention is the best case scenario. Beyond that, the decision should belong only to the woman whose body is directly involved. I'd just like to see fewer women need to make that decision if possible.... whether it is feeling secure enough financially to know they can afford to raise a child, or having access to the Morning After Pill as well as routine contraceptives. Fewer abortions are good, but having abortion as an option is non-negotiable.

[LostinVA]

12. Choice and GLBT are dealbreakers for me

[LisaM]

15. Me too, honey

Just so you know, when we were voting for judges the other day in our primary, I got the list of approved judges from "QLaw" and picked judges that the GLBT community gave the best ratings to. I figured that it would be the best chance to get gay marriage approved in our state.

I AM TIRED OF GOING BACK TO 1960 ON THESE THINGS.

[LostinVA]

19. Excellent!

I wish we could have met up with you when we were in Seattle last month, but there just wasn't time.

[LisaM]

21. Oh well. I was probably out of town.

I was gone for chunks of June and July. Did you like it here?

[Independent_Voice]

31. Same for me

Although I sadly think it would be more "politically correct" for Obama to get away with choosing an anti-LGBT running mate rather than one who's anti-choice.

At any rate, as far as Kaine goes -- no way, no how. If he's the choice, it'll show me that Obama is completely off his rocker!

[1gobluedem]

30. Reproductive rights must not be legislated

Period.