Ins. Politics: Dean Campaign sends out mass mailings attacking Kerry

[kerry-is-my-prez]

In Iowa.... meant to add.

Pointing out that Dean is beating Kerry in Mass. and asking that if Kerry can't even win his own state - how can he win in the General Election - Ouch!

Then the commentator says "This just a few days after Dean asked the other candidates to stop attacking each other and that they need to pull together." Double Ouch!

Just reporting the news, folks.

[blm]

1. Dean camp used right wing poll from Boston Herald.

The Herald is the NY Post of Boston.

It's all about process with the Dean camp. Kerry has the most comprehensive policy positions, yet process trumps REAL policies for that team.

Frank Luntz is driving the bus for our primary. Luntz chose Dean for us, now get on the bus Dems.

[thebigthink]

67. A tale of two polls

I think it's really interesting that two polls taken in the same state on the same days, one by the Boston Globe (the Times of Boston) and one by the Herald showed virtually identical numbers for everyone except Dean.

Kerry was at 24% in both polls. Everyone else's share was +/- 1% in either poll relative to the other except Dean, who came in 6 points higher in the poll done by Herald -- which really is the Republican house organ of MA.

Both polls are 6 weeks old at this point which means they're basically worth diddly by now. But it's still kind of interesting.

[eileen_d]

2. Well, it can hardly be an attack if Dean is doing it!

:D

[BootinUp]

9. That's what I heard! :-)

[BeyondGeography]

3. But Howard said he doesn't pay attention

to mailings, in the same interview.

An admirable man. A leader we can trust. Howard Dean.

[MaineDem]

7. Yeah sure,

:eyes:

[cindyw]

8. Just what I want, a president who isn't paying attention to what his

staff is doing in his name. Sound familiar?

[blm]

17. and he doesn't pay attention to polls, either.

HAHAH...it's ALL about process for that Dean camp. All about process.

[Upfront]

18. Seems To Me Kerry

Has earned it.

[Atlant]

4. I always feel left out.

Even though I'm a strong, strong Dean supporter, and a reliable
voter in the NH Primary (year after year after year), I NEVER
get these cool mailings that everyone is always talking about.

I always feel left out. :-(

All I hear or read from Dr. Dean are positive things, like his
plans to take the country back from the Republicans, his plans
to ensure everyone has access to medical care, his plans to
save our national economy from falling into 3rd World status,
and the like. I never get these "red meat" mailings, even though,
having been a Kerry supporter 'way back when, I'd probably get
a chuckle or two out of them.

Oh, and I get the occasional Holiday greeting card. But it just
doesn'tmake up for the stuff I'm obviously missing out on.

Atlant

[kerry-is-my-prez]

19. Ya gotta be media to get ALL of the mailings

They get sent copies of all of the mailings by everybody - so pretty much NOTHING gets past them. The commentator made that point.

[Atlant]

28. So, in other words, "Mass Mailings" don't *EVER* reach me?

Maybe I'm attending the wrong church. :-)

Atlant

[Cheswick2.0]

36. I don't get Mass mailings either

It must because I am a Presbyterian.

[blm]

48. This was in Iowa.

I doubt that they'd risk that lead in NH.

[maddezmom]

5. anyone in the Kerry camp have a copy? n/t

[kerry-is-my-prez]

22. Maybe you can ask Judy Woodruff for a copy....

This was on her show.

[maddezmom]

24. LOL

I'm sure she'd just pop it in the mail for me. :)

[ryharrin]

6. Aww, that sucks.

There's no reason for Dean to go negative. Hasn't he learned from Kerry that it backfires like crazy. Well, hopefully we'll still pull it out in Iowa.

[thebigthink]

65. Actually...

Dean learned from beating on Kerry early and often that negative campaigning works quite well. It got him where he is today, didn't it?

[ryharrin]

84. Not really,

I don't remember him attacking Kerry by name too much at all. I do remember him referring to "bush-lite" and congressional dems in negative ways, but not usually Kerry specifically.

[JNelson6563]

10. Interesting news

Source? CNN?

So, Dean is pointing out that Kerry can't win his home state in the primary? Stating a fact?

What a horrid man! ;-)


Julie

[sandnsea]

14. My Eyeballs

I saw the ad on CNN. Good enough?

[Cheswick2.0]

38. good enough, no

sorry

[cindyw]

15. CNN

n/t

[BeyondGeography]

30. Reporter was Chuck Todd, National Journal Hot Line

broadcast on CNN Inside Politics.

And the point is the mailing hit the same week Dean ran to McAuliffe asking the latter to help stop the attacks on him.

Very sporting, as they say at the Maidstone Club.

[Hep]

89. "I just give them the truth and they think that it's hell"

Tootin.

[GainesT1958]

11. Oh, well, so much for all that "unity" jazz...

I've a feeling this primary jousting thing's going to boil over several times before it's finally done!

The Dean folks must be worrying about Kerry a bit more than they let on--interesting; I thought Gephardt was their main concern in Iowa! :eyes:

B-)

[Sean Reynolds]

12. Too bad it's true.

Not really an attack, just pointing to the truth. :D

[killbotfactory]

13. What did the mailings say?

Link?

[kerry-is-my-prez]

26. Should be in the transcripts tomorrow....

There's a great link to all of the transcripts for all of the CNN shows. MSNBC also has it for all of their shows. Comes in handy...

[killbotfactory]

54. So, what did it say?

Can't you sum it up?

Did Dean call Kerry a flip-flopping liberal extremist who is weak against Bush and shows muddled thinking?

[Rose Siding]

77. Maybe Dean said Kerry was "wrong headed"

and eviscerate-able and accused him of saying things he didn't really say.

[farmbo]

59. Er...has it occurred to anyone to ACTUALLY read the piece?

Apparently not...no link to the lit piece and not even a transcript of the hearsay statement by a Kerry supporter on a TV show.

Close enough for government work.

[Renew Deal]

16. Dean is a liar and a hypocrite

I don't understand how anyone supports him. Don't Dean supporters see through his act?

[Sean Reynolds]

20. Because ALL the candidates are liars and hypocrites.

Maybe Dean's sick of all the shit Kerry keeps throwing at him. Maybe he's sick of Kerry telling the press that Dean can't win. You kick a dog too much and he'll bite back sooner or later.

[poopyjr]

27. Yes, because Kerry attacked Dean first!! <SARCASM>

Dean based his whole fucking campaign on attacking the other guys.

[Sean Reynolds]

42. Oh really?

Tell me where Dean has stated ANYTHING even close to what Kerry's been saying the past few weeks. Dean never questioned whether or not Kerry would be LIGHT on national security. Dean never questioned whether or not Kerry would make a better president than Bush. Kerry has been attacking Dean for a good long time. Using Republican talking points. ALL Dean can be blamed for is when he called Kerry Bush-lite - which he never even targeted Kerry but ALL the Democrats that kissed Bush's ass.

[poopyjr]

43. You reap what you sow.

[Sean Reynolds]

45. Tell me what Dean's said that justifies the petty attacks?

Because he called some Democrats Bush-lite?

HAHA!

Doesn't matter, while Kerry sinks in the polls, Dean continues his rise.

[cindyw]

47. Show me where Kerry said Bush would be a better pres than Dean

You can think Dean is not qualified to be president and think Bush isn't either.

This is a claim I am getting tired of hearing by Dean supporters.

Being Light on National Security is a fact of Dean's resume that Dean has admitted. It is no different than pointing out how Kerry voted on the IWR.

The difference is that Dean attacks Kerry for giving authority to the President while lying about the fact that by his own admission would have done the same thing. That is the worst attack.

[Renew Deal]

44. Then why whine about people hitting him?

He can't whine and then do it too. Leadership is about standing up for something. If Dean is against attacks, he shouldn't attack.

[Jerseycoa]

21. They do

They just like his act. :shrug:

[KaraokeKarlton]

23. It's not a lie...Dean is leading in the Mass poll.

Kerry has been attacking Dean every time he opens his mouth, with lies, I might add. So what's the problem with Dean telling the truth about Kerry doing poorly in his home state? Perhaps Kerry should spend more time worried about his own campaign and talking about himself instead of spending all his time whining about what Dean does and says. :shrug:

[Sean Reynolds]

25. You don't get it!

It's ok for all Democrats to attack Dean, but when he attacks back he's wrong.

FACT: Kerry has been saying for two months Dean can't beat Bush!
FACT: Dean is leading in Mass polls!
FACT: Dean is RIGHT when he questions whether or not Kerry can get elected.

[Atlant]

31. Of course, all JFK needs to do to prove Howard wrong, is...

Of course, all JFK needs to do to prove Howard wrong, is to
win in his own state. Think he can do it? :-)

Atlant

[Sean Reynolds]

37. Nope......

Kerry is a loser when it comes to running a presidential campaign. He's still in shock that the nomination isn't his.

[thebigthink]

68. He's done it before...

...and against a bigger bully than Dean.

[polpilot]

63. Dean is merely pointing out that if Kerry can't lead forcefully in his own

state then he can't be expected to do well nationally. The polls are supporting Dean's assertion. What is the problem with a democratic leader like Dean voicing support for a candidate that can win. That candidate: Howard Dean.

Dean '04...

P.S. Why can't we all get along??

[thebigthink]

73. Dean leads pretty forcefully in NH too...

...But loses the state to Bush by 25 points.

vs. Lieberman -- Bush wins by 15% (54/39)

vs. Kerry -- Bush wins by 15% (55/40)

vs. Gephardt -- Bush wins by 19% (55/36)

vs. Clark -- Bush wins by 19% (56/37)

vs. Dean -- Bush wins by 25% (57/32)

Guess it all depends on your definition of "winning."

(Source: American Research Group poll of 600 likely NH voters taken Dec. 17-18. MoE +/- 4%)

[Renew Deal]

46. I am not talking about Kerry.

I was talking about Dean's other notorious comments and doings from last week.

[Hoppin_Mad]

29. Kerry deserves it - Get ready for more -eom-

[Atlant]

35. We look at the people who attack him and draw our own conclusions. NT

[adadem]

56. Thank you for speaking my mind. n/t

[hellhathnofury]

86. The kool aid obscures my truth vision.

[revcarol]

32. ORANGE ALERT!! First Kucinich, CMB and Sharpton;

then all Democratic candidates,now Kerry...

ORANGE ALERT!! ORANGE ALERT!! reminds me of Bush attacking to hide something.

Tell me, again, Dean, when the election was held in MA.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

53. Didn't you get the memo?

No need to have those pesky elections, Dean already won.

[unfrigginreal]

33. It's about friggin time!

There's no reason for Dean to sit without responding to all the shit that Kerry has been throwing.

[democratreformed]

34. Two wrongs make a right

:)

[Sean Reynolds]

40. In politics it does.

If Dean sits idly by letting Kerry rip him a new one, Dean loses. Kerry started the fight when he began attacking Dean on every talk show possible. Dean's got to fight back with these Republican-lite talking points.

[edzontar]

39. Kerry has been asking for it....and deserves anything he gets

He has run a terrible campaign, and his attacks on Dean yesterday were idiotic, boring, and quite deserving of the most sustained and pointed reprisals.

Turnabout, as they say, is fair play.

[Scott Lee]

51. He's getting it, in spades.

Look very soon for a Kerry pull out of the race.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

52. I'd think twice about that career in fortune-telling if I were you.

LOL

[Cheswick2.0]

41. good, it is time for Kerry to have a taste of his own ketsup

sore snoozerman that he is.

[blm]

50. Please don't use GOP tactics to attack Kerry. That's just too low.

And very insulting.

By the way...were you appplauding when Dean attacked Kerry since last January, even while Kerry was going through his cancer surgery and recovery and OFF the trail?

Did you think that Dean deserved any reciprocation for HIS attacks on Kerry?

[polpilot]

64. Dean merely pointed out that Kerry voted pro-war and as one of the anti-

Iraq war candidates Dean needed to distinguish the differences.

Dean '04...

[blm]

71. Too bad it's a lie and Dean is not antiwar.

He never has been and never will be because he's a rightwinger masking as a lefty populist.

NO antiwar person was FOR Reagan and Bush's illegal wars in Central America like Dean was.

[KaraokeKarlton]

76. Hello???? Dean is anti-THIS war

He never claimed to be anti-war. In fact, he always points out that he was FOR the first Iraq war and going to Afghanistan but that he OPPOSED going into Iraq THIS time.

Oh, and none of us care what Kerry did in the 80's. We care about what he's done for us LATELY, which isn't much of anything. :shrug:

[blm]

78. Wrong. He was FOR Biden-Lugar which authorized war.

If he was anti THIS war he would have been against ANY resolution for war like Kennedy, Byrd, and Kucinich, et al.

[KaraokeKarlton]

79. Here we go again.

Still beating on that dead horse, I see. Didn't you notice that no one cares? Guess not.

:eyes:

[blm]

81. You contradicted yourself.

What you mean is Kerry's support of IWR still matters but Dean's support of B-L that also authorized use of force DOESN'T matter because the Dean camp can't really defend it without admitting that he wasn't antiTHISwar.

[isbister]

85. Re: Dean merely pointed out that Kerry voted pro-war

Kerry didn't vote pro-war, this belief is often caused by Dean's misleading statements.

“It seems to me that if I was able to come to the conclusion that the President of the United States was not being candid with us about why he was going,” he said, “and the other four guys voted to go, that’s the kind of foreign policy you want in the White House is my kind; not theirs.”

http://www.politicsnh.com/archives/pindell/2003/december/1_2Dean.shtml

There was no vote for war and Dean knows it but chooses to state it this way on purpose so as to mislead the American people... we've got a misleader as president, we don't need another.

[Name removed]

75. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[blm]

80. That's not true. No matter how you many aspersions you cast.

Deamn was no more antiwar than Kerry was prowar. B-L allowed war and IWR allowed war. Try telling the truth about the resolutions and knock off the unnearned sanctimony.

[Scott Lee]

49. Reuters: Dean Not Allowed to Defend Self

details at 11....

[Lobo_13]

55. My impersonation of John Kerry

"It all started when Howard Dean hit me back."

[adadem]

57. Actually

"Howard Dean fired the first shot"

[Lobo_13]

58. No matter how many times you say it

it doesn't make it true.

Kerry and Gep were tag teaming him for months, the first attack ad was in response to three weeks worth of crap news releases from Gep/Kerry offices.

The truth, no, the fact, is that Kerry has been crying like a little girl ever since he lost his precious nomination. He couldn't excite anyone to give him money, so he tries to be like a little monkey that makes a lot of noise and throws his crap.

[cindyw]

61. Dean's attacks on Kerry came well before the imaginary alliance

of Kerry and Gephardt. Earlier in the year. It is how he got where he is. That and lying about hi own support for giving the president authority to go to Iraq.

By the way, did anyone see Howard at those protests? I think all the anti-war people were there. especially the ones who were against the war from the beginning.

[blm]

72. Baloney, Lobo. Dean started attacking on Jan.23 and

even attacked Kerry during his cancer surgery and recovery period.

THAT was low and Dean as a doctor understood how DIRTY a tactic that was. He has a VERY POOR CHARACTER. Evil, imo. Very much like Bush.

[WiseMen]

88. Amazed that you get away with this languauge. What's the secret?

[thebigthink]

74. Perception vs. Reality

This is the earliest reference I have found in a published news article to one Democratic candidate attacking others.

USA Today, April 28, 2003

"Until now, the competition has been relatively harmonious, at least for public consumption, with the exception of Dean. His attacks on fellow Democrats have been so cutting that sometimes the Republican National Committee e-mails them to party members. "Gephardt Plan: 'Pie-In-The-Sky Radical Revamping' " was the headline on one last week, quoting Dean.

Sen. John Edwards of North Carolina and Rep. Richard Gephardt of Missouri have been Dean targets in recent weeks. But Dean has reserved his sharpest thrusts for Kerry, repeatedly accusing him of selling out Democratic principles. The two men are virtually tied for the lead in polls in New Hampshire, which holds the critically important first primary election."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2003-04-28-dem-words_x.htm

[NewYorkerfromMass]

87. Before then even

Dean was all over them in Jan/February '03.

[Jacobin]

60. LMAO

I can't stop grinning!!

:-)

[mzmolly]

62. I don't think the other candidates *agreed* to stop bashing

thus the campaigns continue down the path of typical politics.

John Kerry himself said regarding political races "your either on offense or defense, and I prefer to be on offense" he knows how the game is played.

[Clark4VotingRights]

66. Ok, so, I don't understand the strategy here

Wouldn't a "front runner" traditionally refrain from attack
politics, stay above the fray, strive to look presidential,
and let the struggling candidates flail away?

[madfloridian]

69. Only on stage.

:hi:

No one else backs off, so why should he allow himself to be under bombardment and not fight back?

[thebigthink]

82. ...and then there's reality

I have it on pretty good authority that Jim Jordan wanted to go for Dean's jugular in response to his early attacks on Kerry. Kerry flatly refused and some of the disagreements that ensued are part of the reason Jordan is no longer with the Kerry campaign.

Even now, most of what all the other candidates are throwing at Dean is pretty tame in comparison to what Dean's been dishing out all along. But if any of the other guys ever went running to the DNC about it, I never heard of it.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

70. I know. Especially when he's so far ahead of Kerry. Howie just can't

help himself. He's just coming off as being mean and being a bully. It's making me begin to really dislike the guy. True, it could be partly his campaigns fault - but he has to condone SOME of this stuff. It all trickles down. I couldn't see Clark or Kucinich's campaigns doing something like that or a few of the other candidates.

[madfloridian]

83. Nah, the other campaigns would never do that.

LOL

[blm]

90. timely bump

.

[Cheswick2.0]

91. what commentator and what mass mailings?

you were saying this days ago and I still have seen no proof. You all must be heartsick at how poorly Kerry is doing.