A couple of thoughts on the whole Cokie thing

[MikeE]

I have a couple of thoughts on this whole Cokie Roberts ‘I know Hawaii is a state, but… thing:

Maybe Cokie is smoking a little too much "cokie"
I think she missed the Brady Bunch episode where they went to Hawaii. I mean come on now, when the Brady Bunch films there, how much more mainstream can you get?

[gateley]

1. A third thought: She's a dumbshit.

[tsuki]

29. Fourth thought, she's a Republicon Spokesperson. nt

[driver8]

65. That sounds more like it.

To these people ever stop to think before they speak?

Fucking idiots.

[saracat]

2. Jeez .People misspeak. Obama said there were 57 states and he had visited 58 of them!.

And really, I can't stand her and didn't hear the quote but people jump on the weirdest stuff! It seems there is better stuff to attack on!

[Starbucks Anarchist]

6. I guess she "misspoke" twice:

http://mediamatters.org/items/200808110177

Two days in a row, too.

[saracat]

9. Now that i read it there is even less wrong with the comment. Hawaii, which is a beautiful state

, is where I honeymooned because I found it "exotic" I loved .Went back twice. Big deal and yeah I knew it was a state.Cokie is Rep.Hale Boggs daughter and he was alright too until he died in the first of the small plane accidents. I am not a huge fan of Cokie but this isn't really a devastating comment and it is one lots of folks think about Hawaii.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

10. It's not "devastating," it's just ignorant.

She makes it seem like he went to Mars.

[saracat]

13. It isn't "ignorant' .it is an "opinion". Many people, including myself

find Hawaii "exotic" Big deal.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

14. Do you agree with Cokie that Hawaii is also "foreign"?

And that Myrtle Beach, by comparison, is somehow more "American"?

[saracat]

18. Dunno. Don't care. Hawaii is definaely more "cosmopolitan" and varied

in it s culture as Myrtle Beach would be more vanilla and bland.Hawaii is more "exotic " than Myrtle Beach for sure.But I have never been to Myrtle beach. My impression is it is a wealthy enclave but I really don't know!

[peaches2003]

20. You're wrong

MB is anything but a wealthy enclave. It is strictly a middle class vacation spot for families, lots of golf courses w/ many men's groups there for the weekend, mid-range and lower priced motels, lots of teenagers running wild and in competition with the Redneck Riviera of NW FL. I would have thought a LOT less of Obama if he went there. Cokie would never set foot in MB if she was paid to, believe me!

[saracat]

22. I didn't know. Why would you havbe thought "less" of Obama if he went to

a "middle class' area? I don't understand. I would think "more" of candidate who went to a middle class" are insted of a high falutin jaunt. I am not saying Obama is doing that as hawii is "home" but I just question your saying you woulld respect him less for choosing a middle class locale. I am just curious.

[blondeatlast]

25. Hawaii isn't affordable? Mr. B@L and I paid for our own honeymoon there,

had a wonderful time, and were pretty much working lower-middle class at the time; I didn't even have my teaching job at the time.

We did it with no credit and from having a teeny, simple wedding that we also paid for.

I'd go back in a heartbeat and we wouldn't even have to save for it now.

[saracat]

32. We went there too and it wasn't that expensive. I do know it is

one of the most expensive real estate markets in the world. No one except the really rich can "buy" anything.And it is cost prohibitive to live there as everything is "shipped in". I had some friends who lived there. Very expensive.But, probably like you, we had an affordable "package".

[apocalypsehow]

73. You sure do invest a lot of time defending people who attack the Democratic nominee. Interesting.

[Retrograde]

52. airfare can be a killer, but

you can often find a deal on that. Once you're there, renting a condo is a cheaper alternative to hotels, and you can cook for yourself. Wonderful farmers' markets and fresh local fish, at least on the Big Island.

A lot cheaper than some other places - Manhattan, for example.

[peaches2003]

40. I really shouldn't have said that and

I know it gave the wrong impression. What I meant really was that Hawaii is not elitist and there is no reason for any middle class family like the Obamas not to go there. If Barak and family had gone to MB they would have much less privacy and much of it is very honky tonk. Since Hawaii is so much nicer than MB they would not have been going there instead of Hawaii because they really wanted to, but would be giving in to those that criticize him for whatever he does anyway. He should do what he really wants to and not let those who won't vote for him anyway run his life.

[Gabi Hayes]

36. you didn't see the show. she was horrid. she kept making obnoxious comments

about Obama.

too bad you didn't see the show. I did. I'll bet you a dollar you wouldn't be making your sophistic little defense of her if you'd seen how nauseating her performance was. Just the way she could barely staunch her contempt for Obama was very obvious.


the Myrtle Beach comment was spoken in context with her entire appearance, which seemed designed to denigrate Obama. She referred to the "gang of ten" (actually making the air quote sign), while sniggering "Me, too. Me, too!" when deriding his decision to support the compromise in energy policy as represented by those senators

you don't get the "exotic, foreign" references? you don't get that they're part of the clear effort to portray Obama's otherness, to make him seem not like normal, good Americans, as in McCain's disgusting "An American President for Americans?" campaign?

your context-free defense of the untterably insufferable queen of the cocktail circuit is most......

[mwb970]

33. The *place* may be "exotic" but *going* there isn't.

Going there is actually fairly common. It's not like summering in Bimini, for God's sake, Cokie. Her comment is just more of this "he's not like us" BS.

[Whisp]

49. his family is there, whats so darned exotic about visiting family.

that cokie does sound like an idiot.

[TankLV]

51. well - it is "Paradise" - that's for sure...no place like it or can top it on the planet...

It even SMELLS GOOD all the time!!!

[dkf]

54. Yes, but she is taking "exotic" as "Unamerican".

That is a plain old insult.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

59. My parents honeymooned there nearly 38 years ago!

Cokie has always been a corporate shill for the Repukes. She was much worse during Clinton's impeachment ordeal.

[babylonsister]

26. You're defending this???

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=168071&mesg_id=168071

[saracat]

31. This is the first i saw it. i don't think it is a big deal. Stupid topic.

She has an opinion. So what? Actually I stick to my contention that i don't care either way. I think Hawaii is considerd "exotic" by many folks but I don't think it matters. I am not interested in whether he should or should not have taken a vacation either.She could probably be jumped on a lot more important stuff.

[babylonsister]

35. So do you think Myrtle Beach would have been more appropriate?

And yes, there are lots more important things to talk about, if they'd flippin' talk about them. This is a Sunday newz program; you'd think the tone of the conversation might be more elevated, but this is what we're dealing with. So I'm more inclined to blame Roberts for even going there.

[saracat]

37. Not really. That was my point. I think it was just blather. I don't care where he went.

The only thing I was curious about was the poster who said she would have respected Obama"less' if he had gone to Myrtle beach. I still don't understand that.And yeah, you can blame Roberts for going there and engaing in vapid concersation but it wasn't really derogatory or particularly inciting. It was just silly. JMHO.

[babylonsister]

41. I've said that, too. Had Obama gone to Myrtle Beach, the shores

of Wisconsin, the Grand Canyon, anywhere! he'd have been criticized. So, he goes home and gets criticized anyway. Granny and sister live there, he was due a vacation. I have no problem with it.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

61. Of course saracat is defending it!

She'll defend anyone who attacks Obama, for any reason.

[otohara]

34. Buzz Words

there's a reason why she said this.

Open your eyes.

[cottonseed]

39. You are a brave and dedicated supporter of Cokie.

It's starting to clear up a lot of things for me about your posts. One thing you forgot to add was 18 million voters.

[saracat]

43. Inuendo will get yiou nowhere and this is the first time i have posted anything about Cokie.

I didn't know anything about her except she was Hal and Lindy Boggs daughter and a reporter. I have seen some repots that were good and some where she was snarky. I don't care about her. I don't hate her or like her. Move along, nothing to see here.

[marylanddem]

3. Another thought:

Her fisheyes combined with her air of superiority while spouting bullshit make her one of the most revolting of all the bought and paid for whores on TV

[opihimoimoi]

4. .....in my opinion

She is a Professional Framer....just like the others...the wannabes of Rush, who is their IDOL, who just signed a 400$ Mil contract

That is $400,000,000.00

If that is not a fee to Frame I don't what is....

She is in the wannabe class... up and coming....

You know some of the others...Beck, Savage, Hannity, OReally, Laura, etc

[JuniperLea]

7. Spot on...

I'm betting we hear this repeated several times before all is said and done.

[opihimoimoi]

11. Part of the Talking Points the Pubs issue out to the Media Crew

Ya jus know more is a coming...

[myrna minx]

5. Maybe she feels responsible for Greg's wipe out.

:rofl: I bet Steve McGarret would like to have a word with her down at the Five-O about her ideas about Hawaii.

[JuniperLea]

8. Step away from the Tiki, Cokie!

[myrna minx]

19. ROFL.

:rofl: At least she didn't misplace Mike's plans at the amusement park...or DID she?! :wow:

[DevonRex]

12. She's a dumbass republican. She might have just learned that

Hawaii is a state. You know how that book larnin' is just so haaarrrrrd for republicans.

[saracat]

16. Republican? She is Hale and Lndy Boggs daughter! I doubt she is a .Repug!

If you aren't aware of who they are you should google them.

[DevonRex]

21. I know very well who they are. But she is not they. Here's a piece

by Greenwald in April of this year. THIS YEAR, she says McCain is right about Iraq.

link: http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/04/07/roberts/index.html

<
Monday April 7, 2008 07:49 EDT
Cokie Roberts speaks out on the war on behalf of the American people
The single most dishonest and propagandistic tactic of establishment journalists is to take their own opinion and assert as a fact that "most Americans" agree with them, even when that assertion is indisputably false. David Brooks is probably the single most frequent purveryor of this deceit, but the bulk of establishment pundits regularly deploy the same method -- simultaneously holding themselves out as Spokesmen for the Regular People while showing complete contempt for what they actually think by lying about their views.

Yesterday, Cokie Roberts -- while expressing scorn for the "Responsible Plan for Withdrawal" advocated by 42 Democratic Congressional candidates and numerous military experts, and described by fellow panelist Katerina Vanden Heuvel of The Nation -- said this:

VANDEN HEUVEL: It is not, but you know what, the responsible thing to do is withdraw.



VANDEN HEUVEL: If we withdraw responsibly, the region would be more stable in the long term, America will be restored as a responsible global leader, and there are 42 challengers, you are absolutely right Cokie, who have a responsible plan to withdraw.

ROBERTS: Convincing the electorate of that I think would be very difficult, and I also agree that the notion that Sen. McCain and Sen. Graham you heard this morning putting forward, that Americans would prefer to win, is--

VANDEN HEUVEL: But what is winning? This war is unwinnable, there are no military solutions.

The video is also here. Roberts' claim -- that Americans agree with McCain, Graham and her that withdrawal is a bad idea and that they want to stay until we win -- is just a lie. There's no other way to put that. Poll after poll after poll demonstrates that exactly the opposite is true. It's fine for Roberts to say that McCain is right and that we should stay in Iraq indefinitely and continue to occupy that country until we "win." That's an opinion. But to claim that public opinion is consistent with that view is just false.

Is there any limit on the willingness of establishment spokespeople like Cokie Roberts to lie about the state of public opinion on the war? How much more conclusively can their dishonesty be demonstrated? Here is a post I wrote just a couple of weeks ago documenting how false the claim is, after The Politico announced that the Iraq War was going to be a great asset for McCain because Americans are starting to love the war again. Just compare the statement Cokie Roberts has the audacity to make with a straight face to all of that, or to this:

From USA Today/Gallup over the past six months or so:


And from the latest CNN poll in mid-March:


Compare what Roberts said to these facts. What she did is just outright lying. It would be no different than if these journalists went on TV and insisted that most Americans approve of the job Bush is doing, or that they don't want health care reform, or that they want to attack Iran, or that they favored Clinton's impeachment. Public opinion is ascertainable by polling data.

Public opinion on the question of whether we should withdraw from Iraq is unambiguous and it has been for a long time. Large majorities of the public favor withdrawal regardless of whether we're "winning." To say otherwise -- as establishment journalists like Roberts continuously do -- is just rank deceit. How else can one phrase that? And why shouldn't ABC News make that clear, retract that statement the way they would any other factually false claim made by one of their journalists?

What these journalists actually do -- as they prance around as Spokespeople for the Regular Americans -- is attempt to render public opinion completely inconsequential. When it comports with what the political establishment wants, they tout it as democracy in action, as the establishment speaking for The American People. When public opinion rejects what they're doing, they just lie about it and pretend that people agree with them. The more honest establishment mavens just ignore public opinion altogether and insist that they know what's best for the People.

The snide dismissal of public opinion as irrelevant by people like The Washington Post's Shailagh Murray -- and most recently by Dick Cheney -- is far preferable to the dishonest distortions of Cokie Roberts:

WASHINGTON, D.C.: I am somewhat surprised at the debate about the surge. In October, The Post's own polling showed that 19% of voters favored an immediate withdrawal. Yesterday, CNN reported that more than 50% want an immediate or by year's end withdrawal. Still, the politicians debate more or less, not sooner or later. Why won't the politicians follow the polls when it comes to leaving Iraq?

SHAILAGH MURRAY: Would you want a department store manager or orthodontist running the Pentagon? I don't think so. . . . A withdrawal by year's end carries enormous, very serious implications.

At least they're honest enough to admit that most Americans disagree with them, but since most Americans are too stupid and unserious to understand how Serious withdrawal would be, it's necessary that they be ignored. That's the same thing people like Cokie Roberts, David Brooks and most of their establishment comrades believe, but they prefer to lie about public opinion rather than admit that they think it's irrelevant.

* *

You also might want to google Cokie's brother and his relationship to selling the war before we even went in.

[saracat]

23. Interesting. I always thought she leaned conservative Democrat .

[DevonRex]

24. Yeah, me too until the last couple of years. There's another article

about her brother that I'm trying to find again, about his relationship with the Pentagon in the run-up to war.

I'm kind of bummed out about finding this stuff out, too. I have always kind of had a soft spot for Cokie. Oh well. Must be my southern roots showing. Because she's the most liberal person my mother actually likes.

Hey Saracat, what do you think of Clark as VP?

[saracat]

28. I don't know. He has a tendency to stick his foot in his mouth as a candidate

but for some he "may" lend some military gravitas that Obama lacks. I actually don't know. At least he is more pro-choice than some of the contenders but I am not sure how good Clark would be in a debate. I just haven't a clue.

[mitchum]

67. Both she and her brother are scum sucking dirtbags; pity that they didn't fly with dad

[blm]

27. She's uber-LOBBYIST Tommy Boggs sister. She's a fascist enabling mediwhore.

,

[onenote]

63. so tell me some more about Tommy Boggs, mr. know it all

For example, who does he give thousands of dollars in campaign contributions to? Oh wait, its Democrats. He is one of the big-time lobbyists who has steadfastly focused on Democratic candidates. In the past year, he's given to Conyers, Pelosi, Mark Warner, John Kerry, Chris Dodd, HRC, to name just a few.


BTW - this is not intended in any way as a defense of Cokie Robert's idiotic comments about Hawaii. But, yeah, her brother is a lobbyist. He's also a loyal Democrat.

[blm]

64. Yes, he has, but they ALL do that, just in case. He's still a bigtime lobbyist as corporate as they

come. And with the corpoDems I'm sure they've made it worth his while. Just like Murdoch. Or do his 'for show' donations to any Democratic candidate exempt him, too, according to your standard?

[onenote]

69. If he was contributing to both sides, you might have a point

But unlike a lot of top lobbyists who give to both repubs and dems to cover their asses, Boggs gives almost exclusively (if not exclusively) to Democrats. And Democrats like John Kerry, John Conyers, et al are happy to get his money.

Yeah, he's a lobbyist. So am I for that matter (although lobbying is only a very small -- less than 10 percent -- of the work I do). And while I've been supporting Obama since early in the primaries, it does tick me off that my money is somehow deemed 'tainted'. So I'll give to Mark Warner, and to various other Democrats, both in and outside Virginia. And I'll have my bumper sticker and yard sign.

[blm]

72. Boggs is still a corporate Dem and has been for a long time. He's a Clinton-Lieberman Dem

and that is the wing of the party that is due for a seriously long vacation - hopefully a permanent one so that government can be opened and held accountable to the people.

[onenote]

74. "clinton-lieberman"?

Puh-leeze. I was never an HRC supporter, but treating HRC and Lieberman as if they're two peas in a pod is ridiculous. Or have you forgotten that Obama endorsed Lieberman in his primary campaign against Lamont?

[hlthe2b]

38. Geebus, Saracat.... Yes, I've followed Cokie for years, but she is

definitely Repug and a neocon now and has been throughout the Bush** administration... She went nuts with the Clinton pecadillo (being a devout Catholic, ya know) and went over full tilt to the dark side.... You have not been paying attention, I'm afraid if you honestly think Hale and Lindy's daughter is still a democrat....Frankly, I have doubts about Lindy too, having been named ambassador to the Vatican under Bush*...but her views are less clear.

[saracat]

42. I actually thought Cokie said she was an Indie but I could be wrong

and as for even associating someone being appointed as Vatican Rep(even by Bush) equating being a Repug, particularlu a former Democratic Congresswoman, well that would juat be wrong and just anti Catholic.

[hlthe2b]

45. Hello? Ever know Bush* to appoint a Democrat to an

ambassadorship or any other patronage position?

I RESENT your suggestion that I am anti-Catholic. You just projected YOUR Own bigotry, not mine. I've never known you to be like this, Saracat, but kindly apologize or put me on ignore. Shameful...truly shameful...

[saracat]

48. Norman Mineta was a Bush appointtee who was and is a Dem.I am sure there are others.

I didn't mean that you were anti Catholic but somehow the way the comment was phrased seemed to indicate it was the Vatican appointment that bothered you . I apologize if you thought I meant that you were anti catholic. I did not mean to indicate you were. I took the post the wrong way. Mea culpa.

[hlthe2b]

55. re:

Thank you....:)

[CTyankee]

57. She's a grad of Wellesley, like Hillary.

That ain't no easy school to get into. No, she's just lazy and pandering. Anyone who would pass that off as "political analysis" has had it soft for too long. I doubt if she'll ever again do even modest amounts of research and deep thinking on politics, she's gotten away with poop like this for too long...and that goes for her husband, Steve, too!

[KittyWampus]

15. hahaha, I thought of the Brady Bunch too. Hawaii doesn't get much more "American"

[blondeatlast]

17. She forgot Pearl Harbor. What a biased dumbass she proved herself to be. nt

[sniffa]

30. Quick! Where are the rare DUers to defend Cokie on this?

Oh, I see she's already here. Never mind.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

68. She's spent several posts informing everyone how she DOES NOT CARE where Obama went

And how we should stop being mean to Cokie.

[Mimosa]

44. HAWAII is where Obama's LOVING GRANDMOTHER LIVES!

Um, I don't get the point about Cokie. My linking isn't working right now. Is there some reason Obama and family shouldn't vacation in Hawaii where the Grandmother who helped raise him lives?

[JI7]

46. Cokie is a whore , she has a problem with OBama going home to see family

she disgusts me.

i think she is racist .

[saracat]

62. My where are all the folks screaming sexism as you use the word "whore" to describe

Cokie Roberts but were all out in force because I used the word "trollop" to describe Rielle Hunter after she trashee Elizabeth edwards? Some on DU obviously havve a double standard. This isn't a slam at j17 , just an observation. I could care less about Cokie or where Obama vacations or if he doesn't.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

70. DU is rife with sexist slurs. If I called out every one them I'd be on here 24/7.

I called you out because as a self-identified feminist, you should know better than to use gender-loaded slurs against women. I notice that you took yet another opportunity to trash Rielle Hunter. And the person who really 'trashed' Elizabeth, was John.

[saracat]

71. I do "trash " Hunter. John was despicable to do this but Elizabeth has forgiven him. Hunter is

bottom feeding scum( If that gender neutral enough for you?) She probably doesn't actually know "who" the baby's father is and I have no more respect for her than the Dads who can't remember fathering such children. Women who are scum and betray other women don't get respect from me. Madeline albright said it best when she said their was a "special place in hell" for such women.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

75. Keep digging saracat.

Elizabeth Edwards isn't the ultimate arbiter of morality. And no one is asking you to respect anyone. I'm simply asking you to refrain from using gender-based slurs when referring to another woman if you're going to call yourself a feminist. It's easy to live up to your principles when it's a woman you respect and admire, like Hillary Clinton or Elizabeth Edwards. The real test comes when it's a woman you despise. That's why we get on people for dissing Ann Coulter's appearance and calling her a tranny and stuff like that. Doesn't mean we like Ann Coulter.

[Mimosa]

76. Saracat, you are cute

I can't believe I once had you on ignore! LOL Now tha the nominee is Obama, you are supporting him and not only that I seem to have missed you have a wry incisive sence of humour!

[TexasObserver]

47. Someone is paying her to say what she is saying.

Probably the pukes.

Like Judy Miller, a willing spokesmouth.

[Puzzler]

50. She was back on NPR yesterday...

... pushing here "Hawaii" meme. I've always found here irritating, but now I can't stand her.

[Norrin Radd]

53. Cokie is an ass.

His last vacation was in the U.S. Virgin Islands, if I'm not mistaken? No praise for him for being patriotic and taking trips on our turf.

[Enrique]

56. I freaked out when the Brady Bunch went to Hawaii

I wrote them a letter and told them please go somewhere less exotic next time, like King's Island.

[GalleryGod]

58. Another DOUCHEBAG for LIBERTY !

TOOOO Old...TOOOO Rich....TOO COR-RUPT !

See You Next Tuesday, Coke-ster!:puke:

[otohara]

60. Trifecta

she meets all the criteria for uppity white woman who became ultra-conservative as she got old, rich & corrupt. She fits the part of the D.C. media group think crowd to a tee. I hate the way she laughs when she or her friend George Will points out what they perceive as short comings for dems or of late, Barack Obama.

[mitchum]

66. When she was born a very long time ago, Hawaii was not a state...

so, it's an honest mistake.
Probably the same reason that she is also confused about Oklahoma.

[Mimosa]

77. LOL!!!!!!

I can't believe what a fool Cokie can be. The people of Hawaii are proud Americans. And this is the first time Obama's had time to see his Grandma in a while.