Obama Foreign Policy Team Member Richard Holbrooke On Georgia Conflict

[Median Democrat]

Barack Obama, of course, can't rush out and expressly second guess the Bush administration, since Obama is not the president. However, here is an editorial by one of the prominent members of his FP team. The key point he raises is the role of the Ukraine, with a population of 50 million, and his warnings of a return to the Cold War. Notice, that unlike some of the Neocons, Holbrooke does not advocate a military response. Yet, he also does not advocate a big group hug either.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/10/AR2008081001870.html?hpid=topnews

/snip

What can we do? First, Georgia deserves our solidarity and support. (Georgia has supported us; its more than 2,000 troops are the third-largest contingent in Iraq -- understandably those troops are being recalled.) We must get the fighting stopped and preserve Georgia's territorial integrity within its current international border. As soon as hostilities cease, there should be a major, coordinated transatlantic effort to help Tbilisi rebuild and recover.

Second, we should not pretend that Russia is a neutral peacekeeper in conflicts on its borders. Russia is part of the problem, not the solution. For too long, Moscow has used existing international mandates to pursue neo-imperial policies. We must disavow these mandates and insist on truly neutral international forces, under the United Nations, to monitor a future cease-fire and to mediate.

Third, we need to counter Russian pressure on its neighbors, especially Ukraine -- most likely the next target in Moscow's efforts to create a new sphere of hegemony. The United States and the European Union must be clear that Ukraine and Georgia will not be condemned to some kind of gray zone.

Finally, the United States and the European Union must make clear that this kind of aggression will affect our relations and Russia's standing in the West. While Western military intervention in Georgia is out of the question -- and no one wants a 21st-century version of the Cold War -- Moscow's actions cannot be ignored. There is a vast array of political, economic and other areas in which Russia's role and standing will have to be reexamined. Moscow must also be put on notice that its own prestige project -- the Sochi Olympics -- will be affected by its behavior.

Weak Western diplomacy and lack of transatlantic unity failed to prevent an avoidable war. Only strong transatlantic unity can stop this war and begin to repair the immense damage done. Otherwise, we can add one more issue to the growing list of this administration's foreign policy failures.

/snip

Well, I guess Obama is not going to say that he looked in Putin's eyes and found a soulmate like our current President has said.

[Median Democrat]

1. bump

I see people recommending this, so just one bump.

[MasonJar]

2. Certainly Holbrooke is no neo-con; he is well versed, having been

Clinton's rep at the UN. He knows what he is talking about and it is very reasoned, which is what is needed. He should mesh well with Obama who appears to be a man of stability and reason.

[eridani]

3. More imperialist crap

Of course it's not possible to get anywhere near the nomination without agreeing to it. Any US citizen getting huffy about any other country's "neo-imperialist" policies is full of shit by definition. why is it OK for us to have an imperial sphere of hegemony halfway around the world, but other countries aren't supposed to have them in their back yards? Is Russia building missile "defense" shields in Mexico and Canada?

Anyway, the countries of the world small enough to be forced to knuckle under to one imperial hegemony or another are objectively better off the more imperial powers there are in the game. That's how Thailand stayed uncolonized in the 19th century--playing the British off against the French.

[fujiyama]

4. I am in some agreement

Oooooh Scary Russia! The commies are back in town!

I swear to God, even the more intelligent foreign policy advisers are giving stale Cold War era advice. And why should a country be rewarded by supporting our morally indefensible action in the first place? Oh because they were a member of the coalition of the coerced and bribed?

Now, I don't agree with Russia's response one bit. I think it's over the top, and the civilian toll is horrifying. But, does the US have any moral standing to do ANYTHING anymore? It's squandered. WE ARE ARE A FUCKING OCCUPIER! Is irony dead? And if we want to be belicose toward Russia are we going to expect any cooperation with regards to Iran? There's something we won't hear in the media. If the US wants to supply arms to Georgia, then why won't they see it fit to supply arms to Iran?

The US is fucked. Georgia is fucked. Russia will do what it wants in this case, like it did with Chechnya...and unlike ten years ago, Russia is on the ascent...

[eridani]

5. Well, I certainly agree that Russia is over the top

Stopping ethnic cleansing in South Ossetia and letting it go at that would be fine by me. If they try to trash the whole country, that would be WAY out if line. Let's hope that Euro diplomats can get something done here--our moral credibility is shot way to hell.

[autorank]

6. What a load

More geopolitical games. Don't these people get it - the survival of the human species is at stake.

But these folks are all about "good" Georgia and "bad" Russia. And using the Ukraine, OMG.

The "orange" revolution in the Ukraine was a U.S. program to reduce Russian influence. The Russians
stole the eleciton so we arranged some democracy protests based on, get this, "exit poll" results.
The same people pulling Ukraine away from Russian influence, were stealing the election here and
dismissing exit polls. Frank Luntz was in the Ukraine, so were lots of other happy campers
representing the Bush administration. The "orange" group got in and stunk the place up, just like
the old guys.

Georgia had a "rose" revolution. Same old same old - oh, "democracy" - not. It was about removing
a pro Russian premier and replacing him with a corrupt pro west premier.

I'm sick and tired of the "leaders" rolling out the same pack of half truths and lies and wrapping
it with "our" interests. We have NO interests there, NONE. Stop with the crap just to support
the defense industry.

Why do we have troops in Europe?

Why do we have troops in Okinawa?

Why do we have a major military base in Albania?

Is it for us? No, it's for "them" - no more of this nonsense. Bring all the troops home,
stop the bleeding of the treasury and treat the citizens like grown ups. That means no
more good guy/bad guy crap.

The "warriors" in pin striped suits will get us all killed.

btw, Obama's remarks were infinitely more intelligent than Holebroke's and than his aids who
spoke to the press. He said both sides had to back up and stop the fighting, start talking
and figure it out. A bit later he criticized Russia but was even handed, if somewhat condescending:
"“Let me be clear: We seek a future of cooperative engagement with the Russian government, and
friendship with the Russian people. We want Russia to play its rightful role as a great nation — but
with that role comes the responsibility to act as a force for progress in this new century, not
regression to the conflicts of the past.”"

Here's the point. We have no business in this one. Georgia is run by a thug, Russia is run by
an ex KGB agent, and the illegitimate ruler here started a war that killed over a million people
based on lies.

Obama should show Holbroke, Brzezinski, Albright and the rest of the arm chair warriors the door.

[autorank]

7. We're supporting a corrupt thug

"And as for the operetta "revolution" staged against Shevardnadze's regime last November, it has allowed a changing of the guard within an unchanged power structure. Not only was Saakashvili minister of justice under Shevardnadze, but the thuggish Zurab Zhvania, the prime minister, had the same job under Shevardnadze, during which the worst abuses of power (now denounced) occurred. The head of national security is the same, and all the members of the former president's party have converted to the new president's party. Shevardnadze's old party has disappeared.

That November's "revolution of roses" was stage-managed by the Americans has been admitted even by the new president himself, who has said that his coup could not have succeeded without US help. Abashidze also confirmed it on Saturday in Batumi, when he said that his discussions with the American ambassador to Georgia, Richard Miles, had convinced him that nothing can happen in the country without a green light from Washington." http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/apr/01/georgia.oil

So, Saakashvili (BushCo tool) ousts Shevardnadze (Putin tool) because they're too corrupt and the
elections are fixed. Then the BushCo tool gets in and keeps the Puutin tool's thugs. We then find
out that the "Rose" revolution was helped in oh so many way by BushCo. And what about democracy:

"In Sunday's vote - for which final results are mysteriously still unavailable - the government appears to have won nearly every seat. Georgia is now effectively a one-party state, and Saakashvili has even adopted his party flag as the national flag."

So it's a one party state, every single seat in parliament is in the BushCo tool's party and the
ballots are missing. Wow, what could that mean.

Don't be fooled by the "foreign policy" leadership lie - it's all about getting your prepped to
tolerate more bases overseas and more wars.

I hope Obama fires every one of these pin striped "warriors." We don't have an interest in
this type of action and we don't have time.

[autorank]

8. Holbrooke gives it up "represents almost everything the US ...should support"

"In fact, the 38-year-old Saakashvili represents almost everything the United States and the European Union should support. He led the peaceful 2003 Rose Revolution that overthrew the corrupt regime of Eduard Shevardnadze. He then opened the country to Western investment, presided over a dramatic turnaround in a once-hopeless economy, and instituted massive reforms of the police and civil service. While these efforts have not been perfect -- Freedom House and other nongovernmental organizations have expressed concern about an overly cozy relationship between the government and the main media, for example -- Georgia has climbed further up the World Bank's latest annual reform survey than any other country." Richard Holbrooke, Washington Post 11/26/2006 http://tinyurl.com/6k6f5z

He didn't lead the Rose Revolution, he took orders from us and used it to throw out Shevardnadze, whereupon Georgia became a one party state that loses it's election ballots.

It's all about who's making the money. This isn't US foreign policy, that's for sure. It's whoever made out when this guy got in.

So why is this guy an adviser?