Obama and Lincoln--Doesn't Receive Much Discussion

[kurtboss]

Should we use this? Hard to fuck with Lincoln and helps counter the aloof and inexperienced charges.

People probably won't like this meme as it's uppity for a black guy who hasn't had much chance to do anything to be compared to one of our most beloved Presidents. There are differences too.

Similarities with Lincoln:
Both from IL, both relatively new on the stage, both were regarded as inexperienced, both considered as thinkers, they're both great speakers, good athletes, accused of being aloof, both are thin and tall, both are lawyers who learned politics in Illinois, both use religion to great affect in their speaking but aren't terribly religious in a traditional sense, both speak of compromise and working together, both come to Washington as the embodiment of racial change.


Not so similar:
Lincoln was likely prone to bouts of depression, Lincoln was far more hated (indeed his inauguration led to the secession of the south), Obama has far more formal education, and then Obama isn't white.

But there was a good reason Obama launched his candidacy in front of the Old IL State Capitol...

What do you think?

[kurtboss]

1. How could we use the comparisons? Should We?

Looking for opinions...

[Occam Bandage]

2. Yeah, nothing says down-to-earth more than comparisons with titanic figures of history...

[kurtboss]

5. Only If You Think He Should Go For Avg Joe

I don't know if that's the path he should take. He is a mega-celeb. He is beloved. He is smarter than everyone.

I don't know think he should fight his popularity which isn't based on his "drink a beer with" image that put Bush in office.

He's inspirational, kind of hard to make him average, maybe we shouldn't try.

[MonkeyFunk]

20. Even Lincoln didn't run as " Lincoln"

and nobody knew Lincoln would end up "Lincoln". Even Lincoln.

[phillysuse]

3. How about Obama/Lincoln 2008 for the ticket

Blanche Lincoln - Senator, Arkansas, youngest woman to be elected to the Senate 10 years ago, 6 years in the House, 48 years old, very popular in her state, photogenic and doesn't look like she could be Barack's mother, 12 year old twin sons, husband is a doctor specializing in infertility, major interests in rural America, agriculture, health care, aging issues and energy.

[kurtboss]

11. Interesting, I honestly don't know her

I am concerned that McCain will choose a female VP if Obama doesn't.

[cbc5g]

4. You forgot the big ears!

[kurtboss]

7. LOL thats right

I don't think Obama would look good sporting the quacker beard look though...

[noel711]

6. There's more comparisions...

Lincoln had LESS government and legislative experience than Obama,
but it was in similar capacity.

LIncoln was an inspired public speaker, and that was how he snagged the
democratic nomination. In fact, Lincoln was NOT serving in office when
he was nominated... and it was for his exemplary oratory abilities,
how he could inspire crowds.

LIncoln came from humble background, his mother, Nancy Hanks, died when
he was a child. Thus both Lincoln and Obama came from non-tradition
families of origin.

Lincoln's desire for learning, and serving the public, came from his strong
drive. He had few family resources, and learned early what hardship was,
and learned early to respect others... he was no child of privilege.
THis reminds me of Obama.

LIncoln's detractors tried to mock his physical appearance.. they called him
'homely ape' because he was long, tall, thin and not handsome. This also reminds
me of Obama's detractors. If Obama is an 'elitist' as some detractors claim,
then so was Lincoln.

Contrary to what some fundies may say, LIncoln was not a religious man; he was
never baptized, and when he did attend worship services, it was usually to hear
a particular preacher (and hear the 'address') but he did understand that church
membership did carry some political currency. Lincoln was quite a Bible scholar,
but not for the 'faith' purpose, but because he understood that the Bible was the
literature of our western culture. Obama was a late comer to 'churchy' affiliation,
and yet probably knows more about the Bible than many so-called committed Christian.

It's true Lincoln had bouts of depression. He internalized his deep emotions about
the state of the country, and also about his difficult marriage and family life.
He learned early and often about the bitter fact of death.
We have yet to see how Obama will deal with the weight of responsibility in light
of his calling to lead this country. Lincoln was a sombre man, more shadow than light.
Obama seems more positive, but his maturation of character has yet to come forth.

[kurtboss]

9. Thanks, wish I could recommend it...

Maybe you can post it as it's own thread? Up to you of course, but I liked it. Thanks.

[Faygo Kid]

15. Don't forget oratorical powers.

Nobody approaches Lincoln for his speeches. Barack is good, though, and has a better voice (Lincoln's was high pitched, apparently, but carried well).

Of course, Lincoln had military experience: In the Black Hawk War, he noted, his only battles were with the mosquitoes, and they were the only ones who drew blood. He never saw action, but nothing pleased him more than the fact that his little unit elected him their leader.

[noel711]

16. The funny thing about the Black Hawk War...

was that is was this puny band of crude frontiersmen,
who crashed around in the woods and prairies, and
caught nothing but colds....War? give me a break...

But the particular pundit, Pat Buchanan, used this 'boy scout troop'
warfare as crediting Lincoln with "military experience," as a means
of distinguishing Lincoln from OBama. I sent off an email to him
at MSNBC.. and of course, from them, crickets. Those loud mouths
in the media get a free ride from the MSM to broadcast lies,
and do not allow the truth to prevent them from their wide-casting
propaganda....

We deserve the government we get when we swallow their lies.

[Faygo Kid]

18. You're kidding. Buchanan actually credited Lincoln with military experience for the Black Hawk War?

Lincoln would have thrown his head back and laughed till he cried if he heard that.

Then he would find a way to say, "Reminds me of a story. . . "

[Bicoastal]

8. I wouldn't be surprised if Obama had occasional bouts of depression...

...not that I've seen any evidence of it, I just wouldn't be surprised.

Intelligent, successful people often turn out to be sad sacks in their private life--which, conversely, explains why George W. Bush always seems to be the most self-satisfied man on the planet.

[kurtboss]

10. Yeah, I don't think Dubya Gets Sad Missing Happy Days Reruns

That's about it. I still can't wait to explain to my grandkids (not even married yet) how America managed to choose Dubya of all people. It's still unfucking-believable.

I know things are bad, but they could be so much so much worse given Dubya...

[Phredicles]

12. Lincoln knew the Mexican War was wrong, Obama knew the Iraq War

is wrong.

[kurtboss]

13. Cool can't say I knew that

thanks

[Faygo Kid]

14. Lincoln's quotes about Polk and the war could have been used verbatim about Bush.

Lincoln speaking during the single, two-year term he served in Congress, January 12, 1848 (he was all of 38 years old):

"Some, if not all the gentlemen on, the other side of the House, who have addressed the committee within the last two days, have spoken rather complainingly, if I have rightly understood them, of the vote given a week or ten days ago, declaring that the war with Mexico was unnecessarily and unconstitutionally commenced by the President. I admit that such a vote should not be given, in mere party wantonness, and that the one given, is justly censurable, if it have no other, or better foundation. I am one of those who joined in that vote; and I did so under my best impression of the truth of the case. . . "

Also, remember that Lincoln was just 51 at the time of the 1860 election, only 4 1/2 years older than Barack.

The parallels are pretty amazing. But it would be presumptuous to use them, except maybe for the experience part.

[MonkeyFunk]

17. it would be arrogant for anyone

to make that comparison, regardless of race.

There are millions of people from Illinois who are regarded as inexperienced. Not all of them are Lincolns. Let's wait a little bit before making such comparisons.

John Warner is a tall guy from Virginia - shall we compare him to Washington?

[Thothmes]

19. Failed to mention

Abraham Lincoln was probably the most pragmatic masterful politician to occupy the White House. He had no problem throwing half the Maryland Legislature in military jails without formal charges for considering succession of the state. He saw no problem in signing the arrest warrant for the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court over the issue of habeas Corpus. Issued a proclaimation freeing slave only the territory that was in rebellion, thereby making it unenforcable.

[Maddy McCall]

21. LOL....uh...NO.

[SoxFan]

22. Obama/Lincoln?

Not what you had in mind, but it works for me!




Blanche Lambert Lincoln (born September 30, 1960) is the Democratic senior United States Senator from the State of Arkansas. She was the youngest woman ever to be elected to the Senate when she was elected in 1998 at the age of 38; as of 2008, she is also the youngest Senior Senator in the Senate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blanche_Lincoln