From out and about amongst red-staters: The "high road" is ir-relevant.

[patrice]

I talk to Republicans.

The Obama campaign NEEDS to be aware: Being rational does NOT matter.

It's sadly ironic that Senator Clinton AND HER ADVISORS are right about Obama in a certain way; being Right is definitely NOT enough.

The Obama campaign has demonstrated great control over their message and I praise them for that, but I want them to consider that, beyond that Rational core that they own, there are less and less rational fringes and those fringes are, in my opinion, way way BIGGER than they've estimated.

Obama's thinking is tooooooo detailed and nuanced for MOST people. Given that there is little or nothing that the campaign can do about that in so short a time, they MUST engage the opposition on their own turf. Democrats need their own Rush Limbaugh. The outcome of this election depends upon it.

[BlooInBloo]

1. Oh gawd. Make it stop.

[patrice]

2. ? Stop the sliding? This thing is going to be much closer than you think.

Do you think the influence of red-staters is limited to red states?

[BlooInBloo]

3. Really? Please tell me more about what I think.

[patrice]

4. I was asking you what you want stopped. Okay, "...closer than, perhaps, you think." nt

[patrice]

6. Actually, I think it is your responsibility to tell us what you think to begin with, which you didn'

t.

You'll have to forgive me and others who aren't as "inside" as you are, enough to know what the definition of "it" is.

On edit: Afterall, if all of us were Inside, there wouldn't BE any Inside and we just couldn't have that, now could we?

[patrice]

5. Please enlighten us as to what you consider worthy of continuing.

And what you deem so useless that it should stop.

[azmouse]

7. Those 'less rational fringes' wouldn't vote for Obama

no matter what he or anyone else said. It's sad but some Americans just have to be written off as a lost cause.

[KittyWampus]

10. you are totally wrong. ALL human beings respond to symbolism. Undecideds and Independents voters

are what both campaigns are now battling for.

And since ALL human beings respond more readily to symbolism and subconscious manipulation than to rational debate, it's imperative to USE SYMBOLISM AND SUBCONSCIOUS APPEALS.

[azmouse]

11. Whatever.

Obama will win in November. Thanks for your concern though.

[patrice]

15. And you are essentially validating the Grassroots'-opposition's greatest fear: There WILL be those w

ho matter and those who DON'T matter. Read that, Color COUNTS more than anything else.

This

IS

what I'm hearing, even when the words themselves are not: Race, Black, White etc. etc. etc.

[azmouse]

17. You're very excitable.

Relax. It's good for your blood pressure.

If you know better than the Obama campaign people why aren't you working for them? sheesh.... :eyes:

[patrice]

21. It's my natural temperament; has been all of my life.

It has lead me and my cohort places way, way ahead of many others.

I'm working for local candidates right now. I did Obama phone-banking during the primaries and our local group has a door-knocking project on the calendar. I'm also on my way to contributing the individual max to Obama's campaign.

I just worry that, in some ways, they don't know what they're dealing with. I'm only just starting to see/hear it more clearly myself. The campaign actually might just be too much for "ivory tower" intellectuals.

[patrice]

12. That IS a self-fulfilling prophecy. As a Liberal, my basic position is Inclusion,

because Exclusion DOES NOT WORK.

Do you think the fringes are going to just disappear for our convenience? Even if we get a majority in Congress and get to write and pass the kinds of legislation that we KNOW this country really does need, do you actually think that the opposition is going to just die and go away?

Some will become more honest and change themselves, just enough, others will, like me, react to the pressure by becoming more obdurate in their positions. How much of which will "we" end up with? Who will the Outsiders be and what will they do? Remember Timothy McVeigh; it doesn't take that many people to have big effects anymore.

I cannot claim my own intrinsic worth if I do not allow that of Others, and that's ANY kind of Others. How can we claim Human Rights for Women, Blacks and other People of Color, other Religions, LGBTs, how can we claim the essential necessity for INCLUSION into the Family of Man unless we claim it for All - EVEN THOSE HONEST (big caveat there for them) PERSONS WITH WHOM WE HONESTLY (another big caveat there for us) DISAGREE.

Writing People Off is the Regressive, not PROGRESSIVE, thinking of obsolete, Cthulu-enchanted dinosaurs. If we don't ACTUALLY change it, we are doomed to repeat the same old downward spiral into extinction.

Edit: for typo.

[Clark2008]

8. Red-state is a misnomer

All states are purple.

It should be red country and blue city.

[darius15]

9. LOL Yeah

except for Utah

[patrice]

13. Agreed! nt

[calimary]

14. Yes. Sad but true. Dems need our own rush limbaugh.

And we HAVE to get tough. It's not enough to be correct on the issues. It's not enough to have the facts. It's not even enough to tell the truth. And it's certainly not enough to keep your cool and rise above it.

DIRTY CAMPAIGNING WORKS. HOW MANY presidential election cycles do we have to lose before SOMEBODY on our side finally gets it?

[TexasObserver]

16. I agree that he needs to sharpen his message.

I love Obama's speeches, and his thoughtful approach to problems, but I also think he needs to be able to more forcefully close his arguments. Some voters simply don't get his approach. They need to hear "I will do A,B, and C, and the results will be D,E, and F."

It's more a fine tuning and adding about ten percent to beef it up with easily defined points.

[patrice]

18. Right. It's a matter of comprehension. People quite simply do not understand what they are hearing

.

There's no way to immediately improve their vocabularies and perceptual abilities to recognize allusions, concrete similies, and referential categories of things, no way to vastly improve their knowledge base, though I do think all candidates should constantly EDUCATE.

We need a pit-bull to do the necessary dirty-deeds.

[TexasObserver]

19. There's a good 10% of those hearing him who can't process his approach.

Some people have to hear things laid out very simply and with no generalizations. You give them that, so you don't lose that group of listeners. Those of us who get his speeches will get the parts he adds to reach additional voters, but those additional voters will never get HIM until he throws them some Power Point thoughts they can hang their hat on.

[patrice]

22. I do agree that there are those we will never have anything in common with.

That doesn't mean that you don't try, just in case . . . and because those around this core are "gettable" because they have personal experience with the craziness and they WANT something else IF they can figure out what that is.

[bridgit]

20. An odd book: The Suicide of Reason, but within it is contained the frame...

if splayed onto this ME Oil Crusade of g.w. bush et al and their war on Islamic peoples, i.e. the Occidental Mind is melded onto what we fancy as Reason in a world where Reason has little baring to people, perhaps even red-staters perhaps others, steeped in image or scripture for openers; or folks that have Oriental points of reference upon Reason, in other words 'other' people.

Even Reason, laced up one side and back down the other, if contrary to one's carved-in-stone opinion; is perceived by unreasonable people as an 'enemy state of mind', and they will reject it cause it doesn't fit into their little peg board filled with squished and splintered pegs. Unless it is has been made understandable, more applicable to their life experience.

I suppose none of this would even matter, but for the fact that even unreasonable people are allowed to vote.

[patrice]

23. Love that! "...squished and splintered pegs." Ain't THAT the Truth. We live in a man-eating culture

.