I want to see dirty, nasty, withering attacks against McCain from Obama NOW!

[DuaneBidoux]

Nobody here seems to understand me here when I say get down and dirty. I'm not saying defend yourself from the ads, which does nothing according to psychological research on how the reptillian brain holds on to negative information.

I'm talking attack attack attack. Say nasty unpleasant down and dirty in the mud ahit against him over and over--ad after ad. Say it until people think it without thinking it. This is the Rethugs have done to us election after election. It isn't enough to defend yourself, you have to tear your opponent to shreds. If they insist on fighting in the mud puddle we must join them in the same venue to defeat them.

No, I didn't want this either--but this is the way Republicans play this game.

[GarbagemanLB]

1. Yes! Dirty and nasty attacks from the guy who wants to bring change to Washington!

That'll work!

[DuaneBidoux]

20. You bring no change if you lose and I am fuckin' tired of losing.

[onenote]

30. and obama can't win if he plays the old game

sorry, but he can't. If he gets down and dirty, he loses, big time.

What he needs to do is return fire by making people laugh at McCain's ads. He needs to run ads that mock McCain's ads and point out the differences between them.

So, if McCain labels Obama "the One", Obama should run an called "The Two" -- an ad that makes the point that he is the "one" -- the "one" who will bring new ideas, the one who shares the nation's desire for a change. And then the ad should point out that McCain isn't the one -- he's the Two -- and it should run a series of photos of McCain hugging chimpy, posing with chimpy, looking adoringly at chimpy. It should play some fun music -- Two of Us by the Beatles -- it should tie McCain to Chimpy in a way that makes people laugh at McCain.

If Obama can pull it off -- and its not easy -- he'll bury McCain.

[DuaneBidoux]

34. This ain't no game, and this ain't playin'

I'm fifty, and I fuckin' sick of losing. I have studied in depth why negative campaigns work and it has a lot to do with our evolution, the repillian brain, and fear. It is amazing that people who, for the most part don't even believe in evolution, have figured out a fundamental mechanism that rulers have used since the beginning of time and we are sitting here on our intellectual high horse continuing to get our brains beat out. I'm fuckin' fuckin' fuckin' sick of it.

[onenote]

42. well, I'm older than you, not that age matters

So your fifty. BFD. I'm past fifty and I'm sick of losing too. But in my more than 50 years on this planet, I've figured out this much -- if Obama, having made a big deal about being an agent of change, of not playing the same old games, of not going negative -- gets "down and dirty", he will fail utterly to get his message out and the swing voters he needs will turn away. Maybe they go to McCain, maybe they stay home. But if they see Obama as just another politician -- which is exactly how McCain wants Obama to be seen, Obama loses.

[DuaneBidoux]

45. BS. McCain doesn't see Obama as another politician. If he did he wouldn't be comparing him to

Britney Spears and Paris Hilton. If McCain attacks Obama in a dirty way, and Obama doesn't attack back in an equal way, he will lose. Sorry. I don't want it to be that way...but it will be that way under such circumstance.

For very understandable reasons having to do with how we evolved the human brain is uniquely vulnerable to alliances made on fear and negativity. This is why if Obama doesn't get in the mud with McCain he will lose (although I must admit he will do it with much more class).

[onenote]

46. I didn't say McCain sees him that way. He wants others to see him that way.

Get it?

[DuaneBidoux]

51. Yeah I do get that. Who knows what McCain himself actually thinks.

I doubt it has anything to do with the current crop of ads on his campaign's part. He is told to say "I'm very proud of that ad (Britney and Hilton) without perhaps even having seen it himself.

By the way...a perfect ad would be if Obama came back and said "McCain said he was proud of this ad....(showing the McCain ad with Hilton and Spears)..would you be proud too?"

And this is what I'm talking about...ads that play into his shit. But you have to run them. You have to pay attention. You have to counterattack. If we don't we will lose.

[geek tragedy]

24. He's not going to change Washington.

Just like he's not going to change politics.

There are two types of presidential candidates: dirty ones and losers.

[rzemanfl]

2. I think a picture of a steaming pile of manure and a voice-over

"I'm Barack Obama and I approve this message" is all that is needed.

[Whisp]

3. my cortex survival brain stem cave person knee jerk message says yes!

but reason overwhelms. thankfully.

it could be great fun, yes. but the price of it is not worth it.

[babylonsister]

5. Ha!

:rofl: Good job!

[graywarrior]

4. From No Drama Obama?

Why should he change his style to crawl in the sewer with the sewer rats?

[sniffa]

19. Because

Who knows better how to run a campaign than some random people on the internets?

That's right, no one.

[napi21]

6. Obama can't do that. First, it goes against who and what he is.

Second, it goes against everything he's said during his entire campaign.

I understand your frustration, and many days I feel the same way, but I really think that MoveOn, or some of the other orgs that are Dems could do that, have Obama distance himself from them, and still get the same effect on the voters.

[BlooInBloo]

7. Or else what? You'll lose all respect for him?

:rofl:

[DuaneBidoux]

17. Or else, we lose.

[rwheeler31]

8. Why play ugly?

[sniffa]

9. I'm thinking ads showing McCain in diapers

and looping his senior moments which seem to occur ever other day.

Then again, I'm not running for Prez.

[Whisp]

27. nah, Keating 5 will do.

most voters undecided uninformed will not be affected or give a fuck maybe, but it will send Mr. McCain into a frenzy like no top theatre ticket buyable on earth for a show like that.

but timing is everything. and we have some road to go till Nov.
and mcCain is slowly realizing, in his slow turtling ways, that he has much more bones in the closet than that squeaky clean black man. That is waht is driving him crazy with shooting his wad too soon. he knows, the Mc Knows.

I like how Obama is predictable in his generally offenseless defense, but I'm looking forward to the unpredictable, cuz he has that as well.

Old man McCain is shitting his pants, cuz he thought he'd be up against Hillary.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

10. You are quite right about the psychology

Denying attacks merely reinforces them.

"If Obama isn't a muslim why do news shows keep doing stories about whether he's a muslim?" The fact that the stories say he isn't a muslim is not the point. If something is discussed on the news all the time it is assumed to be a genuine controversy with two sides.

One never sees, "This just in! Six plus Three equals Nine!"

The correct mode is to counter-attack in a way that gives the opponent pause, rather than conceding the news cycle.

All that "answering" attacks does is round out the prepackaged story that leads the news. "McCain says Obama is a used condom. Obama responds that he isn't."

No matter how clever the riposte, the bottom line is that the attack is the lead story on the news.

[DuaneBidoux]

38. And people, out of the "corner of their ear" here "Obama" "Muslim" over and over.

They're busy...they have a life, like most of us. And subtly but surely the connection, the imprint, starts to grow. And they are finally at the voting booth, still haven't decided, and they say..."I heard something about the Obama guy...was he a Muslim? Or, did he associate with Muslims? Don't remember exactly...Oh well, I'll vote for McCain just in case."

Attack the MotherFucker (McCain)...why take a chance?

[madeline_con]

11. Obama, Class Act vs. McLame, Whiner Extraordinaire

It should stay that way, IMHO.

[quakerboy]

12. Perhaps we could just recycle Bush's 2000 primary work?

I hope that you are intending this as satire.

[Clear Blue Sky]

13. Obama should stay above it.

McCains negative ads will back fire on him. Obama should take the high road and be true to his mantra of change. Otherwise he is as bad as McCain.

[DuaneBidoux]

18. They will not backfire--they work, and always will, because of human evolution.

If you fight Hitler and are losing you don't keep fighting fair. You do whatever it takes to win. Ken Wilber is a philosopher, and a fairly "progressive" one, but he has said that one of the weaknesses of the more progressive rational humanists is that they don't understand that you must use their own tools against them.

[NYC_SKP]

25. A black guy beat Hillary Clinton.

Or hadn't you heard?

[Gabi Hayes]

56. exactly...and too many people here, and, I'm afraid, the Obama campaign, as well,

labor under the illusion (delusion) that this group of sociopaths has ANY sort of scruples, empathy, moral standards, call it what you will

they will do, and have done ANYTHING to maintain power. Choice Point, anyone, for starters? lord knows it was at least LIHOP, thank you, Condi. starting a WAR that's cost over a MILLION lives.

putting out a series of nasty ads, emails, etc., is as nothing to these monsters, because that's what they are. they have no socially evolved human motivations....they're classically undeveloped creatures of their basest fears and desires. the world is THEIRS to do with whatever they choose (''We create our own reality"....remember that one?)

I'm really afraid that the poor, feckless dems, fighting against the totally necessary M$M complicity, are locked in a death struggle. If they lose, we could be in for full blown Fascism faster than you can say 'gook.'

[blondeatlast]

14. I always loved watching Ali; Frazier, not so much. I think Obama did, too.

His performance this week seems to indicate so, at least.

I loved the rope-a-dope and McSame came off as most assuredly a dope.

[rzemanfl]

21. I used the rope-a-dope analogy in an email to a friend earlier

tonight. Money is pouring in to the Obama campaign as McCain throws punches like a drunk in a bar room brawl.

[ProSense]

15. Well, this will

disappoint you

[Flabbergasted]

16. It's a very tough decision....

On the one hand he's expected to win and expects to win so he'd better just play it safe?
.
***OR****

I am in the lead but so was Kerry in the begining and yet he lost. Better fight back and risk being beaten down through inaction?


I'd say he needs to find a proper medium while making attacks really effective. Focus against McCain with his IWR vote as a basis. Poor Judgement. Drill it home.

I think Obama will play it safe and he will focus his attentions on the debates and some truly withering attack ads in September and October.

[DuaneBidoux]

22. Someone told me he fought against MLK holiday--that would be a good one if true.

[blondeatlast]

23. He vociferously opposed it's adoption in Arizona for a while, then, when

it was putting a real financial strain in lost convention money, he flip-flopped and supported it.

[DuaneBidoux]

26. Then we need to find a clip, any clip, where he takes this position and use it.

This would absolutely be devastating among the 40 and under crowd.

[galledgoblin]

28. only if it's done like Chris Rock's campaign in "Head of State"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head_of_State_(film)

[NYC_SKP]

29. Try this.

Nance explains this well.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6571938&mesg_id=6573846

[DuaneBidoux]

31. Sorry, don't buy it. These "people" (notice how I question their humanity) get your face down in...

the mud. They hold your face in the mud, you can't breath, they keep you down, they beat you over the head repeatadly with sticks and stones, and then, when you are finally about to surrender they don't give you a way out gracefully, they take a long sharp knife and plunge it deeply into your back.

This week, he got Obama's face down into the mud for the first time.

[NYC_SKP]

33. Most people wouldn't put up for it very long.

In a personal contact situation, I'd have snapped by now. But that wouldn't make it the productive thing to do.

Winning the war, not the battles, counts in the end.

You and I hope his strategy will be successful.

:hi:

[NanceGreggs]

37. Last time I looked ...

... Obama was smiling, completely clean-faced, as he addressed yet another attentive crowd.

The only one who's face is in the mud is McCain - and he seems to want to keep burrowing in deeper, only coming up for air long enough to whine about it.

[onenote]

43. this week, McCain ran a few silly ads that hardly anyone saw

and that will have a negligible impact on a campaign that has barely begun. I'm a political junkie -- hell, I deal with Congress for a living. But if it wasn't for their being linked here on DU, I'd never have seen either McCain's "the One" ad or his "Celeb" ad.

The campaign in October is war. The campaign in September if foreplay. The campaign in August is masturbation.

[AndyTiedye]

48. It Won't Be the Last

Expect it to get worse every week until November. They NEVER run out of mud, and the MSM is always willing to sling more for the Repiglickins.

[whistle]

32. Well that's over the top until after the nominations are confirmed

...but Obama can keep hammering away with the truth against McShames lies

[DuaneBidoux]

35. Well, nothing seems over the top for McCain, and the polls are closing.

[ericgtr]

36. I just got lambested and called every name in the book for saying the same thing

Referred to as a freeper, people making fun of me and my pro Obama sites, you name it. Everyone is happy to see Obama take the high road while they beat your ass into the ground for even suggesting he fights back. The hypocrisy is overwhelming.

I'm with you man, Obama needs to start kicking some ass here. Chop chop.

[DuaneBidoux]

40. Sorry. As the OP I'll ask could have been the way you framed it? After all....

"context is everything" (here would be a satirical emoticon if I knew how to make them).

[ericgtr]

53. Have a look and be your own judge

I have never been attacked this heavily http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6572965

[Beregond2]

39. Please.

Every time McCain shows his face or opens his mouth, he makes a fool of himself. If Obama attacks a doddering, obviously unhealthy old man, he is only going to look mean and stupid. Should he counter the lies? Of course. But in a dignified way that ignores McCain altogether.

[DuaneBidoux]

41. He's definately OLD, and MEAN, and STUPID, let's just MAKE SURE the voters know it.

Sorry for all the caps, I'm on my 3rd Scotch.

[pansypoo53219]

44. mcPOW is still sympathetic to the gnews.

gotta wait til mcinsain has TOTALLY lost it. and i think those ads made obamaa look pretty damned good. moses? allright!

[Buck Power]

47. I assure you that

I completely understand your ass. And sometimes I crave "down and dirty", too. But it's wrong. You're wrong.

And the people that advocate a more passive approach are wrong, too.

The answers lie in the middle. Obama needs to put McCain in his place forcefully and pointedly. But he does NOT, under ANY circumstances, need to stoop to the level to which McCain has stooped. THAT would be playing right into McCain's hands.

Perhaps Barack's surrogates should be flirting w/ more "down" and more "dirty". But that's IT.

[DuaneBidoux]

49. Okay, let's put it this way: I hope they have 10 cognitive psychologists employed for strategy.

It is amazing what we have learned about how the human brain deals with change, fear, tribe, and "enemy," and if Obama doesn't use this science I will be disappointed greatly.

I just happen to think that all this science will, unfortunately, translate into getting down and dirty in the animal kingdom from whence we came.

[Hippo_Tron]

50. It's still pre-convention, no reason to attack McCain now

Better to do it in the fall when he's out of money and can't respond.

[creeksneakers2]

52. There are lots of good, effective things to hit McCain with

No need to get dirty and do stuff that will backfire. McCain's record, his tactics and his dishonesty are all good targets if attacks on them are delivered properly.

[FogerRox]

54. I hate uppity negroes, dont you ? Obama is fine. relax

[mathwhiz]

55. Obama is boxed in

If he goes harshly negative, well then his "brand" suffers and he looks like a hypocrite.

I don't like that Obama cracked down on 527's and told his supporters not to fund them. A better strategy for him would have been for his campaign to stay positive and let democratic 527's slime the hell out of McCain.