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7/9 Election Model-Zogby Edition: Obama (55.6%,420 EV) landslide!

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tiptoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 09:05 PM
Original message
7/9 Election Model-Zogby Edition: Obama (55.6%,420 EV) landslide!
Edited on Thu Jul-10-08 10:04 PM by tiptoe




2008 ELECTION MODEL
A  Monte Carlo  Electoral  Vote  Simulation



Updated: July 9

  • ?click">Chart   State Poll Aggregate + Projection Trend
  • ?click">Chart   National 5-Poll Moving Average Projection
  • ?click">Chart   State vs. National: Vote Share Projection Trends
  • ?click">Chart   Battleground-State Polls
  • ?click">Chart   Battleground-State Win Probability
  • ?click">Chart   Electoral Vote + Win Probability Trend
  • ?click">Chart   Electoral Vote + Projected Vote Share Trend
  • ?click">Chart   Undecided Voter Allocation + Win Probability
  • ?click">Chart   Monte Carlo Electoral Vote Simulation Trials
     2008 Election Model Fraud Analyzer 
  • Uncounted  &  Switched Votes
  • ?click">Chart   Effect on Obama Projected Vote Share
  • ?click">Chart   Effect on Obama Projected Electoral Vote
  •  
     
    This
    State
    National
    State
    National
    Monte Carlo
    Simulation

    Update
    Poll
    5-Poll
    2-party
    2-party
    Expected

    7/9/2008
    Aggregate
    Average
    Projection
    Projection
    ELECTORAL VOTE

    Obama
    McCain
     45.17 
     37.40 
     48.00 
     44.20 
    55.63
    44.37
    52.68
    47.32
    420
    118


        
    15-Poll
    Last Poll
    Sample
     
    NATIONAL MODEL
     
    5-Poll Mov Avg
     
    5-Poll MA, 2-party Proj
    Poll MA
    Poll

    Trend
                          
    Gallup
    Rasmussen
    CNN
    DemCorp
    Time

    Bloomberg
    USA Today
    Newsweek
    FOX
    Rasmussen

    Gallup
    ABC/WP
    COOK/RT
    Zogby
    NBC/WSJ
    Date
            
    7/07
    7/07
    6/29
    6/25
    6/25

    6/23
    6/19
    6/19
    6/18
    6/18

    6/17
    6/15
    6/15
    6/14
    6/09
    Size
                  
    2651RV
    3000 LV
    906RV
    2000RV
    805RV

    1115RV
    1310LV
    896RV
    900RV
    3000 LV

    2605 RV
    na
    880 RV
    1113 LV
    1000 RV
     
    Obama
            
    46
    48
    50
    49
    47

    49
    50
    51
    45
    48

    47
    49
    44
    47
    47
    McCain
            
    44
    44
    45
    45
    43

    37
    44
    36
    41
    45

    42
    45
    40
    42
    41
    Spread
            
    2
    4
    5
    4
    4

    12
    6
    15
    4
    3

    5
    4
    4
    5
    6
     
    Obama
            
    48.0
    48.6
    49.0
    49.2
    48.4

    48.6
    48.2
    48.0
    46.6
    47.0

    46.8
    46.2
    45.0
    46.0
    46.2
    McCain
            
    44.2
    42.8
    42.8
    41.0
    40.2

    40.6
    41.6
    41.8
    42.6
    42.8

    42.0
    42.0
    41.0
    42.2
    42.2
     
    Obama
            
    52.7
    53.8
    53.9
    55.1
    55.2

    55.1
    54.3
    54.1
    53.1
    53.1

    53.5
    53.3
    53.4
    53.1
    53.2
    McCain
            
    47.3
    46.2
    46.1
    44.9
    44.8

    44.9
    45.7
    45.9
    46.9
    46.9

    46.5
    46.7
    46.6
    46.9
    46.8
    Diff
            
    5.4
    7.5
    7.8
    10.2
    10.5

    10.2
    8.6
    8.2
    6.2
    6.2

    7.0
    6.6
    6.8
    6.2
    6.3
    Win Prob
              
    99.57
    99.99
    99.99
    100.00
    100.00

    100.00
    100.00
    100.00
    99.87
    99.89

    99.97
    99.93
    99.96
    99.87
    99.90
    MoE
              
    1.90%
    1.79%
    3.26%
    2.19%
    3.45%

    2.93%
    2.71%
    3.27%
    3.27%
    1.79%

    1.92%
    na
    3.30%
    2.94%
    3.10%
     

     

    This Election Model update includes 33 state polls just released by Zogby. It appears that an Obama landslide is in the making. He now has 54.7% of the two-party vote. Assuming he wins 54.7% of the undecided vote, the 5000 election trial simulation produced an average of 390 (expected) electoral votes.

    The model’s base case (most-likely) scenario projects that he will win 60% of the undecided vote and win 420 EV with 55.6% of the two-party vote. With 50% of the undecided vote (the pessimistic scenario), he still has 363 EV and a 53.9% share.

    The other critical assumptions are that the election is held today and fraud-free.

    Why the big jump in Obama’s expected EV?
    He is projected to win these big red states (94 EV):    AZ,     IN,     MO,     NC*,     TX,     VA*
    A total of 14 states flip to Obama from 2004, all the above and    AR,     CO,     IA*,     MT,     NV,     NM*,     OH*,     SC
    Note: * indicates Obama is projected at 54% or more (2-party).

    Zogby was actually correct in 2004 when he projected that Kerry would win; but he won the True vote and lost the rigged Recorded vote. Election forecasters and complicit media pundits who projected that Bush won refuse to consider the overwhelming evidence that the election was stolen. The media incessantly catapults the false propaganda that Bush won legitimately.

    Repeat a lie often enough and it becomes conventional wisdom. But that’s to be expected. Although the media commissioned the exit polls which indicated that Kerry won by 5%, they don’t question the mathematically impossible Final Exit Poll which was forced to match a corrupt vote count. Bush won the corrupt Recorded vote but lost the True vote. Past is Prologue. It would be foolish to assume a fraud-free election.

    That’s why the Election Model now includes a fraud scenario analysis. Even assuming that 4% of total votes cast will be uncounted, McCain would need at least 10% of Obama’s votes switched to his column to win. In 2004 approximately 3% of all votes cast were uncounted. Bush stole 8.0% of Kerry’s votes (analysis below) to obtain his 3.0 million vote “mandate”.

    These graphs display the effects of uncounted and switched votes on Obama's projected EV and 2-party vote share.
    ?click">Effect of uncounted and switched votes on the projected vote share
    ?click">Effect of uncounted and switched votes on the electoral vote

    This is a summary of where things stand today:


    Undecided voter allocation (UVA) sensitivity analysis
  • UVA % scenarios  50      55     60      65      70   to Obama
  • Worst case (50%)
    53.9%,  363 EV,  100% EV win probability

  • Best case (70%)
    57.4%,  467 EV,  100% EV win probability


  • In a true democracy, this would be a slam dunk for Obama:
    McCain supports the most unpopular president in history with 25% approval.

    But there’s a catch: It’s called Election Fraud.
    The Democratic True Vote is always greater than the Recorded Vote.
    A massive voter registration and GOTV effort is required to overcome the fraud.
    • Approximately 3–4 million Obama votes will be uncounted.

    The Election Model has been updated to include two key fraud variable factors: uncounted votes (net of votes padded) and switched votes. Historical evidence shows that over 75% of uncounted ballots are found in heavily Democratic minority precincts. These critical factors are never included in election forecasting models which permeate the media and the internet. In fact, there is no mention of fraud from professional pollsters, political forecasters in academia, media pundits or liberal bloggers on their web sites. But it’s understandable. No one wants to bite the hand that feeds them. Why should any of these interested parties discuss fraud when Democratic politicians won’t? Unlike impeachment, the dirty little secret of election fraud has always been off the table in Congress.

    The base case projection assumes zero fraud. But if 4% of total votes cast are uncounted, McCain would need at least 10% of Obama’s votes switched to his column in order to win. This could be done by rigging strategically selected touch screens, optical scanners, punched cards and central tabulators. Is it just a coincidence that Karl Rove is advising McCain?

    The Election Model calculates projected vote shares and the electoral vote over a range of 36 uncounted and switched vote scenarios. The scenarios range from the True Vote (zero votes uncounted, zero switched) to Massive Fraud (5%, 10%). For simplicity, the model assumes that the scenarios apply equally in each state- an admittedly an unrealistic assumption. But it provides a good approximation to the resulting EV and popular vote.

    In 2004, Bush won by an official 3.0m vote margin (62 – 59m). The official recorded vote was 122.3m. According to the 2004 Census, 125.7m votes were cast. Therefore, approximately 3.4m votes (2.74%) were uncounted. Historical evidence shows that the vast majority (75%) of uncounted ballots are found in heavily Democratic minority precincts. Including uncounted votes, the Bush margin is reduced to 1.4m (62.9-61.5m). The companion post-election Election Calculator Model (see below) determined that Kerry won by 66.9 – 57.1m. After adjusting for uncounted votes, the model determined that 5.4m (8.0%) Kerry votes must have been switched to Bush. Note that in Florida, Ohio and several other states, total votes recorded exceeded votes cast (vote padding exceeded vote suppression). Most states had more vote suppression than vote padding; the net difference was the number of uncounted votes.

    A Simple Precinct/PC/Spreadsheet Solution to Eliminate Election Fraud
    Vote counts on touch screens are lost in cyberspace.
    States using mechanical levers (NY, CT, etc.) had the highest error rates: gears can be shaved; votes are unverifiable.
    Optical scanners (FL, PA, NH, etc.) have a paper trail, but they are never fully inspected for recounts.
    The chain of custody is often broken (see the NH primary).
    And if all else fails, central tabulators can finish the job by miscounting the votes.


    A simple solution would be for each precinct to install just ONE PC and spreadsheet software.
  • Voters would fill out a paper ballot uniquely coded by precinct/voter ID.
  • A copy is made available to the voter.
  • The ballot is entered into the spreadsheet and cross-checked by three volunteers (Dem, Rep, Ind).

    The precinct spreadsheet file is uploaded to the internet for public access.
  • Precinct files are consolidated for district, county and state totals.
  • The files would enable each voter to confirm his vote online by entering his unique voter ID code.
  • A spreadsheet user could download all the state precinct files to check the totals.
  • The networks would no longer be the source of incoming, fraudulent votes.
  • Exit polls would match the online totals to within 1%.

    The solution is inexpensive, accurate and would serve the public interest.
  • That is why it will never be implemented. There is no money in it.
  • The voting machine manufacturers and corrupt election officials would fight it all the way.
  • And of course, Congress would never do a cost/benefit analysis.


  • The 2008 Election Calculator
    This model projects that Obama will win the True Vote by 71 – 59m (54 - 45%).
    Basic input consists of the 2004 recorded vote, mortality, uncounted votes and 2004 voter turnout in 2008.
    The True Vote is calculated by applying vote shares to returning 2004 and new voters.

          2008 True Vote Election Calculator  Forecast
    Estimated vote share (see National Exit Poll)
    2004 Turnout Votes Mix Obama McCain Other
    DNV - 17.2 13.1% 59% 40% 1%
    Kerry 95% 60.5 46.2% 89% 10% 1%
    Bush 95% 51.6 39.4% 11% 88% 1%
    Other 95% 1.6 1.2% 70% 11% 19%
    Total 113.7 130.9 100.0% 54.1% 44.7% 1.2%
    130.9 70.8 58.5 1.6
    2004 Election Model Review
    On Election Day 2004, Bush had a 48% approval rating.
    The model produced a startling confirmation of the state and national models.
    • In the base case scenario, Kerry was assumed to win 75% of the undecided vote.
    • The Monte Carlo simulation determined that he would win 337 electoral votes.
    • Both models projected Kerry the winner with 51.8% of the two-party vote.
      The final 5 national poll average projection was 51.8%.
      The final 18national poll average projection was 51.6%.
    The Election Model projections were based on state and national Pre-election polls.
    • Kerry’s projected vote share was within 2.0% of his exit poll share in 23 states.
    • The 12:22am Preliminary National Exit Poll indicated that Kerry won by 5148%..
    Exit Pollsters Edison-Mitofsky released their 2004 Evaluation report in Jan. 2005.
    • E-M discussed polling methodology and provided summary statistics by state, region and voting method.
    • Within Precinct Error (WPE) is the average deviation between unadjusted exit poll and recorded vote.
      It is more appropriate to call it Within Precinct Discrepancy (WPD).
      Kerry won the unadjusted (WPD) aggregate state exit poll by 52.047.0% (average of three measures).
                          Recorded Vote           Unadjusted Exit Poll
      EV Kerry Bush Margin KEV Kerry Bush Margin KEV WFD
      WtdAv TOTAL 48.27 50.73 (2.46) 251 51.95 47.05 4.91 337 7.37
    The state exit poll WPD:
    • exceeded 4% in 34 states for Bush and just 2 for Kerry.
    • was less than 2% in 8 heavily Republican states (AR, ID, IN, KS, KY, MT, OK and TN).
    • was less than 2% in just one Democratic state (OR).
      Oregon is the only state which votes exclusively by paper ballot.
    The 1:25pm FINAL National Exit Poll indicated that Kerry lost by 4851%.
    • All FINAL National Exit Polls are 'forced' to match the Recorded Vote.
    • The 'forcing' of the 2004 Exit Poll numbers resulted in IMPOSSIBLE demographics.

      Either the state and national Pre-election and Exit Polls were wrong, or the Recorded Vote was fraudulent.

    The Election Calculator Model used 12:22am NEP vote shares applied to returning and new voters.
    It determined that Kerry won a 67–57 million landslide, 53.2 - 45.4%.
    2004 Calculated True Vote
    12:22am NEP vote share

    2000 Turnout Voted Mix Kerry Bush Other


    DNV - 25.6 20.4% 57% 41% 2%
    Gore 95% 49.7 39.5% 91% 8% 1%
    Bush 95% 46.6 37.1% 10% 90% 0%
    Other 95% 3.8 3.0% 64% 17% 19%

    Total 100.1 125.7 100% 53.2% 45.4% 1.4%
    Votes cast 125.7 66.9 57.1 1.7

    Recorded Vote (actual) 122.3 59.0 62.0 1.2
    48.3% 50.7% 1.0%


    Unadjusted Exit Poll 51.9% 47.1% 1.0%
    Deviation from True Vote -1.3% +1.7% -0.4%
    Two basic methods are used to forecast presidential elections:
    1. Vote share projections based on the latest state and national polls

      In the Election Model, state and national projections are based on the latest polls.
      Both state and national models allocate undecided voters to project the two-party vote.
      The state model uses Monte Carlo simulation to determine the expected electoral vote.
      The Election Model assumes the election is held on the latest poll date.

    2. Projections based on historical time-series data (regression models).
      These models forecast vote-share only and are usually executed months in advance of the election.
    Monte Carlo Electoral Vote Simulation Overview
    The objective is to calculate the expected electoral vote and win probability.
    The win probability for each state is calculated based on the current projection.

    For each of 5000 election trials, the winner of a state is determined as follows:
    Obama's state win probability is compared to a random number (RND) between zero and one.
    If the probability is less than RND, Obama wins the state EV, else McCain.

    The winner of the election trial is the candidate who has at least 270 electoral votes.
    The EV win probability is simply the number of winning election trials divided by 5000.

    2004 Registered Voter (RV) vs. Likely Voter (LV) Polls
    The national pre-election RV polls were closer to the True Vote than likely voter LV polls.
    The LV polls, after adjustments, matched the RVs — and the unadjusted exit polls.

    Other links:
    Latest 2008 Election Model

    Confirmation of A Kerry Landslide
    Election Fraud Analytics and Response to the TruthIsAll FAQ

    Excel Models available for download:
    The Election Calculator: 1988-2004
    2004 Interactive Simulation Model
    A Polling Simulation Model
    2000-2004 County Vote Database

    Aggregate State and National Polls and Projections
    Undecided-Voter allocation effect on projected vote share, EV and win probability

    THE 2008 ELECTION MODEL


    This
    State
    National
    State
    National
    Monte Carlo
    Simulation

    Update
    Poll
    5-poll
    2-party
    2-party
    Expected

    7/9/2008
    Wtd Avg
    Average
    Projection
    Projection
    Electoral Vote

    Obama
    45.17
    48.00
    55.63
    52.68
    420

    McCain
    37.4
    44.2
    44.37
    47.32
    118

     

    Sensitivity Analysis

    Undecided voter allocation scenario

    Obama
    50%
    55%
    60%
    65%
    70%

     

    State model: Projected aggregate vote share

    Obama
    53.88
    54.76
    55.63
    56.5
    57.37

    McCain
    46.12
    45.24
    44.37
    41.5
    42.63

     

    MoE Probability Obama wins popular vote (NORMDIST)

    2.00%
    100
    100
    100
    100
    100

    3.00%
    99.4
    99.9
    99.99
    100
    100

     

    Monte Carlo Probability Obama wins electoral vote

    Trial Wins
    5000
    5000
    5000
    5000
    5000

    Probability
    100
    100
    100
    100
    100

     

    Obama Electoral Vote

    Average
    363
    392
    420
    445
    467

    Median
    361
    391
    420
    446
    470

     
     
     
     
     
     

    Maximum
    453
    477
    489
    501
    518

    Minimum
    299
    316
    340
    1.5
    382

     

    95% Confidence Limits

    Upper
    409
    441
    470
    491
    507

    Lower
    318
    342
    370
    399
    427

     

    States Won
    31
    33
    34
    39
    41


     

     

    2008 POLLING ANALYSIS AND PROJECTIONS

    State Model
    State Polls Pre-Undecided Voter Allocation
    Projection
    Win
    Trial

    Total

    AL
    AK
    AZ
    AR
    CA

    CO
    CT
    DC
    DE
    FL

    GA
    HI
    ID
    IL
    IN

    IA
    KS
    KY
    LA
    ME

    MD
    MA
    MI
    MN
    MS

    MO
    MT
    NE
    NV
    NH

    NJ
    NM
    NY
    NC
    ND

    OH
    OK
    OR
    PA
    RI

    SC
    SD
    TN
    TX
    UT

    VT
    VA
    WA
    WV
    WI
    WY
    EV
    538

    9
    3
    10
    6
    55

    9
    7
    3
    3
    27

    15
    4
    4
    21
    11

    7
    6
    8
    9
    4

    10
    12
    17
    10
    6

    11
    3
    5
    5
    4

    15
    5
    31
    15
    3

    20
    7
    7
    21
    4

    8
    3
    11
    34
    5

    3
    13
    11
    5
    10
    3
    Obama
    45.2 %

    36
    41
    42
    41
    52

    40
    48
    90
    50
    39

    38
    61
    39
    52
    39

    42
    37
    39
    40
    55

    54
    54
    47
    48
    44

    42
    48
    36
    38
    40

    49
    49
    51
    47
    38

    43
    37
    49
    46
    55

    42
    34
    36
    39
    31

    63
    44
    48
    37
    48
    40
    McCain
    37.4 %

    47
    45
    39
    39
    32

    38
    32
    9
    41
    43

    44
    31
    52
    32
    40

    38
    47
    44
    47
    33

    30
    29
    33
    32
    50

    40
    43
    52
    38
    37

    36
    33
    30
    38
    44

    38
    42
    33
    36
    31

    41
    51
    41
    42
    55

    29
    39
    35
    45
    38
    53
    Diff
    7.8 %

    (11)
    (4)
    3
    2
    20

    2
    16
    81
    9
    (4)

    (6)
    30
    (13)
    20
    (1)

    4
    (10)
    (5)
    (7)
    22

    24
    25
    14
    16
    (6)

    2
    5
    (16)
    0
    3

    13
    16
    21
    9
    (6)

    5
    (5)
    16
    10
    24

    1
    (17)
    (5)
    (3)
    (24)

    34
    5
    13
    (8)
    10
    (13)
    BO EV
    359



    10
    6
    55

    9
    7
    3
    3



    4

    21


    7



    4

    10
    12
    17
    10


    11
    3


    4

    15
    5
    31
    15


    20

    7
    21
    4

    8





    3
    13
    11

    10

































































    Obama
    55.7 %

    46.2
    49.4
    53.4
    53.0
    61.6

    53.2
    60.0
    55.4
    90.6
    49.8

    48.8
    65.8
    44.4
    61.6
    51.6

    54.0
    46.6
    49.2
    47.8
    62.2

    63.6
    64.2
    59.0
    60.0
    47.6

    52.8
    53.4
    43.2
    52.4
    53.8

    58.0
    59.8
    62.4
    56.0
    48.8

    54.4
    49.6
    59.8
    56.8
    63.4

    52.2
    43.0
    49.8
    50.4
    39.4

    67.8
    54.2
    58.2
    47.8
    56.4
    44.2
    Probability
    100.0 %

    2.9
    38.2
    95.5
    93.3
    100.0

    94.5
    100.0
    99.7
    100.0
    46.0

    27.4
    100.0
    0.3
    100.0
    78.8

    97.7
    4.5
    34.5
    13.6
    100.0

    100.0
    100.0
    100.0
    100.0
    11.5

    91.9
    95.5
    0.0
    88.5
    97.1

    100.0
    100.0
    100.0
    99.9
    27.4

    98.6
    42.1
    100.0
    100.0
    100.0

    86.4
    0.0
    46.0
    57.9
    0.0

    100.0
    98.2
    100.0
    13.6
    99.9
    0.2
    EV
    420



    10
    6
    55

    9
    7
    3
    3



    4

    21
    11

    7



    4

    10
    12
    17
    10


    11
    3

    5
    4

    15
    5
    31
    15


    20

    7
    21
    4

    8


    34


    3
    13
    11

    10


    [div style="clear:left;line-height: 1.
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    napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 09:08 PM
    Response to Original message
    1. I really hope it works out that way, but overconfidence will kill you!
    It's going to be a fight all the way! We can't let up, even for a minute!
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    ChimpersMcSmirkers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 09:17 PM
    Response to Reply #1
    4. Never Give Up! Never Surrender!
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    tiptoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-11-08 06:22 PM
    Response to Reply #4
    12. k!
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    grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 09:11 PM
    Response to Original message
    2. Again raises questions about Zogby
    Aren't the Zogby interactive polls considered suspicious because they don't represent pollsters making random calls but people

    calling in to volunteer their opinions?

    Don't get me wrong I would love to have their results, especially on Barr nationwide and AZ in particular.

    Did you see Phrgndumass's thread today he was quite critical of it.

    I appreciate the hard work you put into these

    (altough I don't really understand the Monte Cristo aspect of it)
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    Bullet1987 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 09:14 PM
    Response to Reply #2
    3. Zogby Interactive is not a source I would be using...not an online poll
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    cags Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 10:05 PM
    Response to Original message
    5. Well butter my butt and call me a biscuit. If Obama wins TX I'm gonna pee myself!!!
    Edited on Thu Jul-10-08 10:26 PM by cags
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    AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 10:07 PM
    Response to Reply #5
    6. GOP heads would explode and it would be fabulous!!!!
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    cags Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 10:27 PM
    Response to Reply #6
    7. I live in TX, and you don't even know how good it would feel to see us turn blue
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    AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 10:29 PM
    Response to Reply #7
    8. Obama intends to do some damage to the electoral map.
    Effin Utah!

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    tiptoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 10:32 PM
    Response to Original message
    9. The 2004 Election Model tables (color-coded for x-ref to OP material)

    THE 2004 ELECTION MODEL

    Projection
    EV
    Vote%
    Prob%

    Kerry
    Bush
    365
    173
    51.8
    48.20
    99.90
    0.10


    Undecided Voter Allocation
    Kerry
    60%
    67%
    75%
    80%
    87%


    Kerry election trials
    Win
    Probability
    4901
    98.02
    4972
    99.44
    4995
    99.90
    4997
    99.94
    4999
    99.98


    Projected Vote Share
    Kerry
    Bush
    51.02
    48.98
    51.38
    48.62
    51.80
    48.20
    52.07
    47.93
    52.43
    47.57


    Electoral Vote
    Average
    Median
    320
    322
    328
    329
    337
    338
    343
    345
    352
    353


    Maximum
    Minimum
    379
    211
    388
    237
    399
    223
    405
    243
    412
    254


    95% Confidence Level
    Upper
    Lower
    361
    278
    368
    288
    376
    298
    382
    305
    389
    315


    National 18-polls
    Vote%
    Prob%
    50.73
    97.55
    51.15
    99.90
    51.63
    100.00
    51.92
    100.00
    52.34
    100.00


    States Won
    24
    25
    26
    26
    27



    2004 POLLING ANALYSIS AND PROJECTIONS

    State Pre-Election polls, Projections, Exit polls and Recorded vote

     
     
     
     
    Pre-Election Polls
    (Pre Undecided Voter Alloc)
     
     
    Projected
    (After 75% UVA)
     
     
    State Exit Poll
    (Based on WPE)
     
     
    Recorded Vote
    ( Official Vote Count )
     
     
    SEPProj
     
     
    SEPVote
     
     
    Exit Poll
     
    Projected
    EV
     
    SEP
    EV
     
     
    ProjSEP
     
     
    ProjVote
     
     
    WPE   
    State
    Wtd Avg

    AL
    AK
    AZ
    AR
    CA

    CO
    CT
    DC
    DE
    FL

    GA
    HI
    ID
    IL
    IN

    IA
    KS
    KY
    LA
    ME

    MD
    MA
    MI
    MN
    MS

    MO
    MT
    NE
    NV
    NH

    NJ
    NM
    NY
    NC
    ND

    OH
    OK
    OR
    PA
    RI

    SC
    SD
    TN
    TX
    UT

    VT
    VA
    WA
    WV
    WI
    WY
    EV
      538  

    9
    3
    10
    6
    55

    9
    7
    3
    3
    27

    15
    4
    4
    21
    11

    7
    6
    8
    9
    4

    10
    12
    17
    10
    6

    11
    3
    5
    5
    4

    15
    5
    31
    15
    3

    20
    7
    7
    21
    4

    8
    3
    11
    34
    5

    3
    13
    11
    5
    10
    3
    Kerry
     47.7 % 

    39
    30
    45
    46
    49

    47
    52
    78
    45
    50

    42
    45
    30
    54
    39

    50
    37
    39
    40
    50

    54
    64
    52
    52
    42

    44
    36
    32
    49
    47

    50
    49
    57
    47
    35

    50
    28
    50
    50
    56

    42
    42
    47
    37
    24

    53
    47
    52
    45
    51
    29
    Bush
     47.0 % 

    57
    57
    50
    48
    42

    48
    42
    11
    38
    47

    52
    45
    59
    42
    58

    44
    60
    56
    48
    39

    43
    27
    45
    44
    51

    49
    57
    61
    49
    47

    42
    49
    39
    50
    55

    47
    61
    44
    45
    36

    55
    52
    50
    59
    69

    40
    51
    44
    49
    44
    65
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
    Kerry
     51.0 % 

    41.3
    39.0
    48.0
    49.8
    55.0

    50.0
    55.8
    85.5
    57.0
    51.5

    45.8
    51.8
    37.5
    56.3
    40.5

    53.8
    38.5
    42.0
    48.3
    57.5

    55.5
    70.0
    53.5
    54.3
    46.5

    48.5
    40.5
    36.5
    49.8
    50.8

    55.3
    49.8
    59.3
    48.5
    41.8

    51.5
    35.5
    53.8
    53.0
    61.3

    43.5
    45.8
    48.5
    39.3
    28.5

    57.5
    47.8
    54.3
    48.8
    54.0
    32.8
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
    Kerry
     51.8 % 

    42.5
    40.3
    46.7
    44.8
    59.8

    50.1
    62.2
    90.9
    61.3
    50.9

    42.5
    56.4
    30.8
    57.0
    40.0

    50.7
    37.5
    39.6
    44.1
    55.5

    60.0
    64.8
    54.4
    55.7
    45.8

    49.0
    37.7
    36.7
    52.9
    57.0

    57.8
    52.9
    64.1
    49.2
    32.9

    54.2
    33.5
    53.0
    55.3
    61.8

    45.9
    36.3
    42.8
    40.6
    29.2

    66.4
    49.4
    57.0
    40.3
    52.0
    31.2
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
    Kerry
     48.3 % 

    36.8
    35.5
    44.4
    44.5
    54.3

    47.0
    54.3
    89.2
    53.3
    47.1

    41.4
    54.0
    30.3
    54.8
    39.3

    49.2
    36.6
    39.7
    42.2
    53.6

    55.9
    61.9
    51.2
    51.1
    40.2

    46.1
    38.6
    32.7
    47.9
    50.2

    52.9
    49.0
    58.4
    43.6
    35.5

    48.7
    34.4
    51.3
    50.9
    59.4

    40.9
    38.4
    42.5
    38.2
    26.0

    58.9
    45.5
    52.8
    43.2
    49.7
    29.1
    Bush
     50.7 % 

    62.5
    61.1
    54.9
    54.3
    44.4

    51.7
    43.9
    9.3
    45.8
    52.1

    58.0
    45.3
    68.4
    44.5
    59.9

    49.9
    62.0
    59.6
    56.7
    44.6

    42.9
    36.8
    47.8
    47.6
    59.0

    53.3
    59.1
    65.9
    50.5
    48.9

    46.2
    49.8
    40.1
    56.0
    62.9

    50.8
    65.6
    47.2
    48.4
    38.7

    58.0
    59.9
    56.8
    61.1
    71.5

    38.8
    53.7
    45.6
    56.1
    49.3
    68.9
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
    Diff
      0.8 %  

    1.2
    1.3
    (1.3)
    (5.0)
    4.8

    0.1
    6.4
    5.4
    4.3
    (0.6)

    (3.3)
    4.6
    (6.7)
    0.8
    (0.5)

    (3.0)
    (1.0)
    (2.4)
    (4.1)
    (2.0)

    4.5
    (5.2)
    0.9
    1.5
    (0.7)

    0.5
    (2.8)
    0.2
    3.2
    6.3

    2.5
    3.2
    4.8
    0.7
    (8.9)

    2.7
    (2.0)
    (0.8)
    2.3
    0.5

    2.4
    (9.4)
    (5.7)
    1.4
    0.7

    8.9
    1.7
    2.8
    (8.5)
    (2.0)
    (1.5)
    Diff
      3.6 %  

    5.7
    4.8
    2.3
    0.3
    5.5

    3.1
    7.9
    1.7
    8.0
    3.8

    1.1
    2.4
    0.5
    2.2
    0.8

    1.5
    0.9
    (0.0)
    1.9
    1.9

    4.1
    2.9
    3.2
    4.7
    5.7

    2.9
    (0.9)
    4.1
    5.1
    6.8

    4.9
    3.9
    5.7
    5.7
    (2.6)

    5.5
    (1.0)
    1.7
    4.4
    2.4

    5.0
    (2.1)
    0.3
    2.4
    3.2

    7.5
    4.0
    4.2
    (2.9)
    2.4
    2.2
    WPE
      7.1 %  

    11.3
    9.6
    4.6
    0.5
    10.9

    6.1
    15.7
    3.4
    15.9
    7.6

    2.2
    4.7
    1.0
    4.4
    1.5

    3.0
    1.7
    (0.1)
    3.8
    3.8

    8.1
    5.8
    6.3
    9.3
    11.3

    5.8
    (1.8)
    8.1
    10.1
    13.6

    9.7
    7.8
    11.4
    11.3
    (5.2)

    10.9
    (1.9)
    1.8
    8.8
    4.7

    10.0
    (4.2)
    0.5
    4.8
    6.4

    15.0
    7.9
    8.4
    (5.8)
    4.7
    4.3
    Kerry
      331  




    6
    55

    9
    7
    3
    3
    27


    4

    21


    7



    4

    10
    12
    17
    10





    5
    4

    15
    5
    31



    20

    7
    21
    4







    3

    11

    10
    Kerry
      325  





    55

    9
    7
    3
    3
    27


    4

    21


    7



    4

    10
    12
    17
    10





    5
    4

    15
    5
    31



    20

    7
    21
    4







    3

    11

    10

    < 2.0%
       21   

    yes
    yes
    yes



    yes



    yes




    yes
    yes


    yes






    yes
    yes
    yes

    yes

    yes






    yes




    yes

    yes




    yes
    yes


    yes


    yes
    yes
    > 2.0%
       33   

    yes
    yes
    yes
    yes


    yes


    yes
    yes

    yes

    yes



    yes

    yes
    yes
    yes


    yes
    yes
    yes
    yes

    yes

    yes



    yes


    yes
    yes

    yes

    yes
    yes


    yes
    yes
    yes

    yes


    yes

    yes
    yes
    yes
    > 6.0%
       25   

    yes
    yes


    yes

    yes
    yes

    yes
    yes













    yes

    yes
    yes
    yes



    yes
    yes
    yes

    yes
    yes
    yes
    yes


    yes


    yes


    yes



    yes

    yes
    yes
    yes




     


    The Election Model Final 18 National Pre-Election Polls (9RV, 9LV)
    http://www.pollingreport.com/wh04gen.htm
       
     
    Sample
    Poll
     
    Final Poll
     
    75 % UVA Projected
     
    5-Poll Moving Average
     
    5-poll Moving Average, 2-party
       Election Model
       18 National Polls
        
        Harris
        Zogby
        Marist
        Econ
        TIPP
     
        CBS
        FOX
        Dem Cor
        Gallup
        NBC
     
        ABC
        ARG
        Pew
        Nwk
        ICR
     
        LAT
        Time
        AP
    Date
    Average

    2-Nov
    2-Nov
    1-Nov
    1-Nov
    1-Nov

    1-Nov
    31-Oct
    31-Oct
    31-Oct
    31-Oct

    31-Oct
    30-Oct
    30-Oct
    29-Oct
    26-Oct

    24-Oct
    21-Oct
    20-Oct
    Size
     1720 

    5508
    1200
    1166
    2903
    1284

    1125
    1400
    1018
    1866
    1014

    3511
    1258
    2408
    1005
    817

    1698
    803
    976
    Type


    LV
    LV
    LV
    RV
    LV
     
    RV
    RV
    LV
    RV
    LV
     
    RV
    LV
    RV
    RV
    RV
     
    RV
    LV
    LV
    Kerry
     47.3 %

    50
    47
    49
    49
    44
     
    46
    48
    48
    48
    47
     
    48
    49
    46
    45
    44
     
    48
    46
    49
    Bush
     46.9 %

    47
    48
    48
    45
    45
     
    47
    45
    47
    46
    48
     
    47
    48
    45
    48
    46
     
    47
    51
    46
     
    Kerry
     50.90 %

    51.5
    50.0
    50.5
    52.8
    51.5

    50.5
    52.5
    51.0
    51.8
    50.0

    51.0
    50.5
    52.0
    49.5
    50.8

    51.0
    47.5
    52.0
    Bush
     48.10 %

    47.5
    49.0
    48.5
    46.3
    47.5

    48.5
    46.5
    48.0
    47.3
    49.0

    48.0
    48.5
    47.0
    49.5
    48.3

    48.0
    51.5
    47.0
     
    Kerry
     51.3 %

    51.3
    51.1
    51.6
    51.7
    51.5

    51.2
    51.3
    50.9
    51.1
    50.6

    50.8
    50.8
    50.2
    50.2
    na
     
    na
    na
    na
    Bush
     47.8 %

    47.8
    48.0
    47.5
    47.4
    47.6
     
    47.9
    47.8
    48.2
    48.0
    48.4
     
    48.3
    48.3
    48.9
    48.9
    na
     
    na
    na
    na
     
    Kerry
     51.8 % 

    51.8
    51.6
    52.1
    52.2
    52.0

    51.7
    51.8
    51.4
    51.6
    51.1

    51.3
    51.3
    50.7
    50.7
    na
     
    na
    na
    na
    Bush
     48.2 % 

    48.2
    48.4
    47.9
    47.8
    48.0
     
    48.3
    48.2
    48.6
    48.4
    48.9
     
    48.7
    48.7
    49.3
    49.3
    na
     
    na
    na
    na
    Diff
     3.6 % 

    3.6
    3.2
    4.2
    4.4
    4.0

    3.4
    3.6
    2.8
    3.2
    2.2

    2.6
    2.6
    1.4
    1.4
    na
     
    na
    na
    na

     

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    tiptoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 10:36 PM
    Response to Original message
    10. RE: 2004 PRE-ELECTION POLLS
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    OnTheOtherHand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-11-08 06:21 AM
    Response to Reply #10
    11. have fun in the bubble, dude
    I think most DUers are capable of remembering that Kerry was behind in the polls, at least until TIA cooked them. (Yeah, I know, he has his reasons, and maybe you believe them.)

    I'm told that repetition can be an effective means of persuasion, so maybe you can lure some more folks in with you.
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    DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-11-08 06:36 PM
    Response to Reply #11
    13. What Did Yogi Berra Say?
    "This is like Deja Vu all over again."
    Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
     
    OnTheOtherHand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-11-08 08:00 PM
    Response to Reply #13
    17. (grin) yup, except that I sort of missed it the first time
    I joined DU in the spring of 2005, sort of by accident. I thought TIA was off the wall about exit polls, but when I saw what he had been doing to pre-election polls -- well, it was an inspiration, of sorts.
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    Awsi Dooger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-11-08 09:02 PM
    Response to Reply #17
    23. I still think there's merit in altering pre-election polls
    I was more into that in '04, using a Partisan Adjustment Number (PAN), based on history of which direction polling tended to err in specific states. So I found TIA's approach interesting, even though I normally didn't agree with his methods, notably the allotment of undecideds.

    The sample size simply isn't large enough. That's what made me realize I was spending too much time on the PAN theory. One presidential vote every 4 years and a scattered number of senate and gov races, some with tight races and therefore plenty of polls, others lacking the same. Some states there's plenty of indication of consistently flawed polling. Not in others. The poll averaging is close enough, in general elections if not always in primaries.

    But yeah, I wish you were here in '04. I could have spent more time on the sidelines, like now. :)
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    OnTheOtherHand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-11-08 09:09 PM
    Response to Reply #23
    24. ah, micronumerosity
    Yeah, it's perfectly plausible that polls could be systematically biased, and that the bias could vary from state to state -- and that it would be bloody hard to tell. Some of that bias could even evince vote suppression -- or lots of other things.
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    Awsi Dooger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-11-08 06:49 PM
    Response to Original message
    14. I don't see how you can seriously project 55.6% in an open race
    Two-party vote, or however you want to break it down, 55.6% makes no sense in an open race. Even Eisenhower didn't manage quite that much in '52, a war hero in an incredibly favorable environment with the Korean War impact and 20 consecutive years of Democratic rule.

    Open races are tight by definition. Without a track record in highest office, the voters aren't thrilled or disgusted with either candidate.

    Obama could manage this type of number in 2012, if he had an incredibly successful first term and faced a weak GOP challenger. But even that is very unlikely. There's too much blind GOP support in the South and plains states for a nationwide Democrat to rack up such a high percentage.

    I'm not impressed when proposed numbers don't threaten common sense.
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    DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-11-08 06:52 PM
    Response to Reply #14
    15. I Haven't Posted In Awhile But This Caught My Eye
    Edited on Fri Jul-11-08 06:58 PM by DemocratSinceBirth
    I have no doubt if the election were held tomorrow Obama would win but the election isn't tomorrow and he's not going to get the biggest majority for a Democratic candidte since Lyndon Johnson...
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    Awsi Dooger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-11-08 07:05 PM
    Response to Reply #15
    16. I noticed you've been absent
    And I think I owe you a PM reply. :)

    Yeah, we had a 99.99% thread last week, similar to '04. I'm not ready for them yet.

    Obama is in great shape but best case scenario is probably 52-53%. Over/under is probably in the 51.5% range, if you had to put up something right now.

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    OnTheOtherHand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-11-08 08:12 PM
    Response to Reply #14
    18. heya
    Thanks for adding some substance to that craptacular ER thread. I'm afraid not many people read it. (Certainly no sign that the person who replied to it did.)

    I can't quite go along with "Open races are tight by definition" -- what about 1928? But I too would be shocked if Obama won by double digits. More to the immediate point, I sure don't think he is winning by double digits now, and I don't think there's any basis for allocating undecideds toward the out-party candidate so early. (I don't think there is much basis later, in a presidential, but that's another discussion. Probably we already had it once!) I should check how far ahead Dukakis would have been if he had been allocated most of the undecideds too, but it's just too silly right now.
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    Awsi Dooger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-11-08 08:39 PM
    Response to Reply #18
    21. That ER thread made me dizzy
    I think I mentioned it activated my motion sickness. I hadn't been to that forum in quite some time, and not subsequently. Running into that mess was amazing. I literally couldn't believe you were being ridiculed for posting under a user name. But it was good to see some posts from Febble.

    Well, I guess I didn't consider 1928, or anything prior to FDR. My political knowledge and number of books read declines significantly prior to the FDR era.

    In a polarized era like this one with constant media attention of both candidates, and with the most vital swing states like Florida, Ohio and Virginia generally having a slight GOP tilt, I don't like the chances of an open race getting out of hand in our favor. If you reversed the dynamic and a Democratic president had imploded to this degree, with mid 20s approval ratings, I absolutely think a GOP nominee in an open race could manage 55.6%, or very close to that level. Our nominee wouldn't contest the smaller states and the percentages in those forfeited states would be overwhelming.
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    OnTheOtherHand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-11-08 09:26 PM
    Response to Reply #21
    25. let's be fair
    Edited on Fri Jul-11-08 09:28 PM by OnTheOtherHand
    I was being trashed for not signing my posts in my sig, because by disagreeing with Freeman and Simon, I've supposedly staked my reputation on proving that Bush won -- so I shouldn't try to conceal that 'fact.' Amazingly asinine, the sort of thing I don't know whether or how to try to explain to colleagues. Drives me bonkers regardless of the target -- the way I was raised, I just can't fathom that self-defined progressives pull this crap.

    Sure, the partisan tilt right now favors Democrats, but not nearly to the point of indicating a double-digit victory. I'm not sure about your counterfactual, but I see your point. At any rate, McCain has high prior favorables and a really sweet relationship with the media, so it's hard to see him getting utterly obliterated -- although things conceivably could get a lot worse for him.

    ETA: Very little hope of avoiding fraud threads regardless of margin: if the expectations are systematically souped up, then no matter how good the fundamentals get, the projections are bound to race on ahead.
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    Awsi Dooger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-11-08 10:09 PM
    Response to Reply #25
    26. I understand the sig aspect
    Who looks at sigs? I never pay attention to them. And since he also berated you for posting under a different name on Kos than here, I'm confident your name splashed throughout a fancy obvious sig wouldn't have thwarted the criticism. The theme itself was bizarre.

    The backlash is indeed asinine. I experienced plenty myself. In '04 prior to the election TIA threatened to post a poll, asking if I were a troll, simply because I pointed out he had a misunderstanding of margin for error. Luckily, plenty of DUers came to my defense.

    It's like posters have to agree to every outlandish percentage-wise claim, never question the use of a cherry picked poll, otherwise you're happily labeled a Bush faithful, gleeful that he won.

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    OnTheOtherHand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-12-08 07:10 AM
    Response to Reply #26
    28. bing!
    Some folks are so busy speculating about "motives" for disagreement, they can't be bothered to consider reasons for disagreement. And they're perplexed why anyone would think that attitude shouldn't be allowed to dominate a discussion board.

    And yeah, the sig business is a sideshow. The basic false move is the in-group/out-group definition. Someone posted to ER overnight that Febble "isn't even an American."
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    tiptoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-12-08 06:32 PM
    Response to Reply #28
    29. same person also contributed this:
    http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=505352&mesg_id=505444

    ...
    This isn't just about the exit polls.
    ...
    Who are we to believe on exit polls, a mathematician or a political scientist?
    ...
    What about Steven Hertzberg? Where did he ever get the qualifications to run his Election Science Institute? Was it from his experience with the Department of Defense?

    Why is the Steven Hertzberg story being covered up? Did you know he ended up at a mickey mouse "conspiracy" forum? Did you know that the forum he was at has declared that Brad is CIA influenced, while Bev Harris has been called a 9/11 CIA rat? Hertzberg did multiple interviews with the webmaster there. Why is that not news to the election integrity community?

    Did you know that Hertzberg ran websites devoted to Ron Paul? Did you know he had the gall to endorse Matt Damschroder right on this very website? Did you know that his brother Robert, who once ran for mayor of Los Angeles, was one of the first to sponsor a bill for the funding of electronic voting technology? Can anyone say conflict of interest?
    ...
    In conclusion, I think election integrity activists should be wary of groups like the Verified Voting Foundation. Paper receipts on electronic machines is not the answer.

    Hand counted paper ballots are the answer. How come our evil government has all this money to char Iraqi babies and bury Iraqi soldiers alive, but there isn't enough money to have hand counted paper ballots? Money should not be an issue when it comes to making sure our elections are legit.
    ...



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    OnTheOtherHand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-12-08 11:20 PM
    Response to Reply #29
    32. yeah, sort of a mishmash of non sequiturs
    Edited on Sat Jul-12-08 11:21 PM by OnTheOtherHand
    Why mathematicians should be presumed expert on the accuracy of exit polls escapes me entirely. Whether we should assume that Kerry and Bush voters were equally willing to participate in an exit poll isn't a mathematical question.

    I personally have no clue what Hertzberg thinks of Ron Paul, but I know he helped to generate some pretty damning evidence about the DREs in Cuyahoga County. If there's something wrong with that work, I'd be interested to learn about it, but the personal stuff looks like McCarthyite bullshit to me.

    I think the folks at Verified Voting would generally agree that paper receipts aren't "the answer." But, hey, why get bogged down figuring out what people actually think before criticizing them?

    The government that fights the war doesn't pay for elections. Elections are administered by state and local governments with limited federal intervention. Some localities choose to do 100% hand counts; most don't.

    ETA: Oh, I forgot the first one. Of course there's more to talk about than exit polls. Doh.
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    Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-12-08 10:15 PM
    Response to Reply #18
    30. Al Smith imploded in 1928 because he went on the radio and everyone heard his accent
    The only way you get that kind of margin is if one candidate implodes and while that could happen, it's impossible to predict at this point.
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    tritsofme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-11-08 08:20 PM
    Response to Reply #14
    20. Who the hell do you think you are walking in this thread with logic and reason?
    Everyone knows that it is 99.9999999995454090% certain that Obama will win.

    TIA's prediction is far too conservative.

    We will know there was vote fraud if he doesn't get at least 257% of the vote, and I'm 99.454% sure of that.
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    Awsi Dooger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-11-08 08:48 PM
    Response to Reply #20
    22. I'm hoping we can avoid the fraud threads
    But I'm not sure what type of margin would accomplish that. They were prevalent post-'06 despite the congressional takeover.

    It's weird about the estimated percentages. Naturally they are prone to post-election over reaction, either way. When Kerry lost it didn't mean the true likelihood was 0%, or anything close to that. If Obama wins, even by considerable margin, the 99.99% wasn't accurate. But this is what you deal with, only one result and laser focus on the bottom line.
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    opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-11-08 08:16 PM
    Response to Original message
    19. OMG....K&R #4...NEED 1 more....After watching the Pol News these past 2 days I can see it
    LANDSLIDE,,,,McNemic is toast
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    yowzayowzayowza Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-11-08 10:34 PM
    Response to Original message
    27. My gosh. Tharze an error in the very first table.
    The national 2-party projection Obama 52.68% value should actually be 52.674825869906709829087892340980983589998247529857239087908356082349086123408956087890234079234782560986798106723460987609823498723489754987234890098907

    ;)

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    ShadowLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-12-08 10:42 PM
    Response to Original message
    31. Yeah right, McCain's campaign would have to completely collapse for Obama to win 420 EV's
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