Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Barack Obama was right that kids need to speak another language. Especially in a global economy.

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 11:50 AM
Original message
Barack Obama was right that kids need to speak another language. Especially in a global economy.
Edited on Thu Jul-10-08 12:29 PM by beachmom
The Right, which now is endorsing American ignorance, instead of learning another language, pounced on this remark:

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/politics/bulletin/bulletin_080709.htm

'Instead of worrying about whether immigrants can learn English, because they will learn English, you need to make sure your child can speak Spanish,' he said. 'We should have every child speaking more than one language.'"


Amen, Senator Obama!! I have been saying this for years. This was no gaffe, ladies and gentleman. This was the future President of the United States delivering some tough love talk to the American people. Let's face it -- we have been largely lazy about learning a foreign language. And I am not talking about just "book learning" a second language, but actually being able to speak it; enough to get around, order a meal, find transportation, etc. in a country that speaks that language. After all, that's what most foreigners do with English.

If we expect to compete in the 21st century with the increasingly sophisticated rest of the world (hello, India and China), we sure as heck shouldn't sit around scoffing at a presidential candidate for encouraging kids to study hard and take on the great challenge of being fluent in a foreign language. The far Right may lash onto "Spanish", but the truth is Spanish may be the best language to start with since we are at least exposed to it quite a bit (gee, is the Right against Dora the Explorer?). But why stop at one? After Spanish, kids can be encouraged to move on from there. Hey -- what about Arabic speakers to help us with our national security? Or Chinese to better compete in the most populous nation on Earth? Does the Right REALLY think Americans should be lazy and not learn new things? Because if that is what they are getting at, then they are in fact conceding that America will decline this century while other countries like China and India will out pace us.

I'm for the candidate who dreams about the greatness of America and what Americans can accomplish. Anyone with me?

UPDATE: THIS is what I am talking about:

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/10/bush-addresses-the-italian-prime-minister-in-spanish-amigo-amigo/

Bush addresses the Italian prime minister in Spanish: ‘Amigo! Amigo!’»

At the G8 summit in St. Petersburg, Russia two years ago, President Bush was caught in a candid moment on an open microphone, complaining that some of his fellow world leaders “talk too long.” Though the G8 summit was in Japan this year, the open microphones during lunch were still there. As the New York Times’s Sheryl Gay Stolberg reports, Bush had a bit of a language mishap when speaking to “one of his best buddies in Europe,” Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi:

“Amigo! Amigo!” Mr. Bush called out cheerily in Spanish when he spotted the Italian prime minister. “How you doing, Silvio? Good to see you!” Later, the president wondered about his former Russian counterpart, Vladimir V. Putin. “Did Putin come to see you since I saw you?” he asked Mr. Berlusconi. (He had not.)


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
1. YES, but not necessarily Spanish. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #1
7. What's your point. Obama ended by saying kids should learn "more than one"
Edited on Thu Jul-10-08 11:57 AM by beachmom
language. Don't buy into the Right's propaganda.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. Didn't say he did. There are a lot of pressures to learn Spanish when Asian languages..
are more important for economic and political reasons.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Oh, okay. Yes, I agree. However, I think kids should learn multiple languages
and Spanish is not a bad place to start.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #7
44. Actually, he did say specifically Spanish.
Sure, he said "other languages," as well, but he did say, "Instead of worrying about whether immigrants can learn English, they will learn English. You need to make sure your child can speak Spanish," as part of the entire comment.

That's what has people up in arms.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #44
49. Here is the full comment. Learning Spanish in Colorado is not exactly a stupid idea.
Edited on Thu Jul-10-08 01:29 PM by Mass
And he added that every child should learn more than one language.

Now, why is it that the rest of the world learns English and nobody protests, but that the US cannot stand that people should learn the language of their only non-English speaking neighbor, Mexico? When I was a kid, I learned English and German. It was in France and every kids at the middle school level would learn English and one of the other neighboring countries's language. Some kids would learn 3 foreign languages, and nobody thought it would hurt out national identity, even though French are at least as much stupid on these issues as America is.


"Instead of worrying about whether immigrants can learn English - they'll learn English - you need to make sure your child can speak Spanish," Mr. Obama said. "You should be thinking about, how can your child become bilingual? We should have every child speaking more than one language."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #49
58. I know.
I simply said that PART of the entire comment contained that sentence.

It's that one PART that has people up in arms.

(And, of course, you know that the media will only play that one PART).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #1
15. Isn't Spanish the 3rd most spoken language in the world, after
English and Chinese?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #15
51. Perhaps, but international economics, business and diplomacy ...
are English, French, and then Japanese and Chinese.

English is the official language of international aviation and is one of the official languages of OPEC. Knowing English hasn't hurt the Indian economy any.

Russian's really fallen low on the list.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #51
68. Russian is a lingua franca for a vast area of Eurasia
All the "'stans", the former Soviet satellite states and even in places like Finland and Mongolia.

Unfortunately, these areas don't have a lot of political or business influence.

But with the new Eurasian oil development coming, Russian will definitely be in resurgence.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #68
75. Yes and no. A lot of them try to avoid using Russian, if at all possible...
But if you want to be understood, it's the best bet.

I studied Soviet oil trade!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #75
77. I studied Russian
Never had much chance to use it, but I can follow it if I hear it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #77
79. I can read it fairly well, but really lousy speaking it. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bad Thoughts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-11-08 06:37 AM
Response to Reply #51
85. Spanish would be more useful than French
And I make my living, in part, by speaking and reading French.

Latin America is a more important economic region for the US, especially since many countries are ready to cross the threshold into the developed world. Indeed, if oil prices remain high, Latin America will become a more important trading partner than Asia.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #15
67. That's actually a complicated question
In terms of number of native speakers, its:
1. Chinese (Cantonese)
2. Spanish
3. English
4. Bengali
5. Hindi/Urdu

In terms of a secondary language, combined with the number of total speakers, you get this:
1. Chinese
2. English
3. Spanish
4. Russian
5. French

So, Spanish IS the third most widely spoken language.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
2. I wish I would have been force or encouraged to learn another language
We are pushing our kids to learn something other than just english
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
3. Moi, playa mama!
:hi: I think this is way past due myself. I wish someone had forced me to learn another language though I was lucky enough to have a few offered when I was younger. I applaud Obama for taking this stand.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #3
25. Me, too...
...babylonsister. I just retired from teaching after 24 years...and we were trying to make this point when I started in 1984. I wish our future president GREAT success. We have NO TIME to waste on this. I'm glad he is starting a national conversation (on this and so many other good topics).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. He continues to impress! And congrats on your retirement, YvonneCa! nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #27
48. Thank you...
...very much. I still have to figure out my retirement life (think 'job' :) ), but my first priority now is to concentrate on 'Democratic President no matter what, in 2008.' First things first! :7
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kerrytravelers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
4. Children who speak more than one language tend to have a wider vocabulary & stronger writing skills.
This is something that educators have been saying for decades. We're ignored by the RW, but we've been saying it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #4
10. And the earlier these languages are acquired, the better. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kerrytravelers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. Absolutely!
:thumbsup:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #17
32. Double-absolutely
kids can grow up bi-lingual, or even tri-lingual, and I know a couple of examples personally. And by grow up I mean from the very beginning, when they start to talk. And up to certain age, their ability to adapt into a new language if they hear enough of it is absolutely amazing and incomprehensible to an adult, to this adult at least.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kdpeters Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #10
81. Which is why some parents have started trying to teach babies to communicate in sign
Human babies actually have the mental capacity to understand and communicate a large number of concepts several months before the verbal ability develops to the point of actually learning how to produce their first spoken word. Studies have shown that the children of deaf parents learn to sign long before the children of hearing parents learn to speak. What they also found is that Hearing children of deaf parents who learned to sign before learning to speak would pick up the ability for speech on track with children of hearing parents. Not significantly sooner or later. The hearing children of deaf parents were found to have a huge advantage already understanding and communicating far greater number of concepts that quickly become a spoken vocabulary soon after the child learns how to start producing speech. When hearing children who sign start to speak, they can sometimes begin speaking with a vocabulary of 30-40 spoken words while non-signing children of the same age are taking much longer to learn their the first handful of verbal vocabulary and concepts. Furthermore, the early communication between parent and child through signing seems to promote parent child bonding and reduce frustration in babies who have the means to communicate basic wants and needs earlier.

I'm fluent in American Sign Language. The hardest part is learning how to let go of a linear/verbal mode of conceptualizing and communicating and learning to conceptualize your thoughts visually and how to either express or comprehend multiple meanings simultaneously. That part of the language is difficult to master and it's common for beginning and intermediate signers to produce a form of "English-on-the-hands" which is still an effective signed communication method. It's just not ASL. Not by far. That takes a great deal more study and practice.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #4
26. Yes...
...we were. And, hopefully now...yes, we CAN! :7
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
5. Only in our American-exceptionalism arrogance do we believe
that every other part of the world should learn OUR language, and we don't have to learn a goddamn word of theirs--especially a language that's dominant in the same hemisphere, the same CONTINENT as ours. He didn't mean it as a dictate, it was a suggestion, anyway.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #5
13. It's amazing how few Canadians speak decent French. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. That is to their shame, then.
Speaking as one who can speak some French herself.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #18
53. Yes, it is. It always surprised me my friend in Kingston, Ont. NEVER learned French! nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #13
30. Outside of Quebec
French IS a foreign language. And the French they speak in Quebec is kind of funny. Most of it is "normal" French, but they have some odd words, I guess realted or transformed from old words no longer in use in France, and some really funny direct from English translations. One example I remeber from a trip to MOntreal way back and that I found hilarious is "chien chaud", a word by word translation of "hot dog".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #5
23. Yes, I've often wondered why we Americans are so prideful of being "uni-lingual."
Speaking another language does open a whole new world of art and ideas.

Besides, I didn't really learn English until I studied German.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #23
59. That is an interesting line of thought.
For uni-lingual or mono-lingual persons, their language just "is" - much like the culture or religion they grow up with. Bi-lingual persons, however, have an innate understanding of 'why' it "is", much like how people exposed in depth to other cultures and religions can understand the common building blocks of them and not be deluded into believing that any one is better than any other.

Perhaps THAT is what scares conservatives about it - the breakdown of exclusivity.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
totodeinhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #5
66. Spanish is very similar to English. I would prefer that we challenge our students...
to learn more difficult languages that don't use the same alphabet, such as Asian languages or Russian. As we head more and more into a global economy (like it or not) Asians languages and Russian might very well become more important than Spanish.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #66
76. Learning those languages is a different ball game
I took a semester of Arabic and plan to take 2 or 3 more. I can tell you that once I'm done I will be decently proficient at writing but will hardly be even close to proficient in speaking. It's something where you really need to be exposed to other speakers to learn, which can be difficult in this country.

Spanish and French are much easier to learn how to speak.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
6. What horror is that you speak of!!!
Seems like such pure common sense, yet it always amazes me that so many people object to it. Pure laziness is all it is.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 11:56 AM
Original message
I know. I am really beginning to think the Right wants to keep people ignorant. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
28. Hmmmm...
...:)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
8. Yup, I remember in high school, French or Spanish. Pick one.
And am I ever glad I picked Spanish.

It's been very useful here in CA and when traveling.

Sadly, ignorance and fear causes many Americans to think there's something honorable about insisting on English only, but some very liberal educators I know insist that, while learning in one's native tongue is vital, it's particularly important to learn more than one language at as early and age as possible, and that learning English is a MUST for immigrants.

Obama see's the opportunity of taking English Language learners and creating a globally competitive, multi-lingual populace.

PS, I'm with you.

:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
China_cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
9. After meeting my husband, I learned to be very ashamed
of the fact that we do not teach other languages. He grew up in Holland. From the age of 8, it was MANDATORY that he study -3- other languages besides his own. (He's 3 years younger than I am) Even his grandfather, who was 86 when I met him 35 years ago, spoke Dutch, English and Frisian.

It's simply arrogance that we've been taught that the rest of the world should cater to us in everything, including language.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
demokatgurrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
11. Absolutely. I think we are the only "civilized" nation
or maybe even the ONLY nation, that has only one official (or widely spoken) language.
Why Spanish? Well, just to the south of us we have a whole lot of countries in LATIN AMERICA that speak Spanish, not to mention a sizeable Spanish speaking minority in this country. But if we want to be flexible, why not require each high school graduate to have just MINIMAL PROFICIENCY, not necessarily "fluent", in at least TWO languages????
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
eppur_se_muova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-11-08 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #11
95. I agree there is too much emphasis on "fluency". Better to ...
study three or four languages well enough to "just get by" than to try to perfect one language skill. Studying a third or fourth language actually broadens your understanding in such a way that it becomes easier to learn a little bit of any language, AND it usually reinforces the languages you already know, even including your native language.

Even in college, the emphasis in language depts. is on learning to read the literary language, which typically requires years of basic language study first. I would really like to see a "comparative linguistics" option offered as a major/minor, in the same way that single languages are. I've seldom even seen a listing for a *course* in comparative linguistics.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
zbdent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
14. I remember when people would speak highly about a person who
spoke several languages fluently ... (there were even some old-time conservative Republicans in that group ... go figure!!!)

Of course, now, the thought-process is dominated by people who think Larry the Cable Guy is hilarious and have made his (normally direct-to-video release) movies money ...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. Yep--the deliberate manipulations of the GOP to dumb us down culturally
continue unabated.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #14
22. Remember John Kerry is fluent in French, but then had to pretend
he didn't know it? That was an all time low for scorn to those who know another language. As when Bush chastised David Gregory for asking a question in Paris in French.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #22
29. "Truth, is the American...
...bottom line." Things have changed, isn't it GREAT ? :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #14
54. US UN Amb. Adm Vernon Walters spoke several, William F. Buckley
spoke Spanish before English and Eleanor Roosevelt spoke French before English. She was called on to translate at the UN on a few occasions for French, German and Italian. When Einstien came to the US and was invited to the White House, the R's spoke German at the table.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
20. Obama didn't goof...
...at all on this. As usual, his words are courageous, honest and necessary talk. We, in this country need to discuss the educational needs of our children and grandchildren. Take this from a teacher: future generations need to be multilingual to compete in a world economy.

Kids in other countries know more than one language. Ours should,too. English should be critical. A second language is also critical...and Spanish is high on the list of needed languages. So are Farsi, Chinese, etc....depending on our childrens' employment hopes.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
21. He is correct. The world is multilingual,
and we are behind the curve when we perpetuate, even celebrate our monolingual condition.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #21
31. "...we are behind the curve when we perpetuate, even celebrate our monolingual ...
...condition." GREAT words. :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #21
34. my Moscovian friends 10 year old came to spend the summer with us, he speaks 5 languages fluently
Edited on Thu Jul-10-08 01:14 PM by ElsewheresDaughter
my granddaughters go to an International Global Studies magnet school in Newburgh, NY and since Kindergarten have taken a language everyday ....they are in 6th & 7th grade are fluent now and both already have college credits in their respective languages...Italian and French.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. As it should be in every school in the nation. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. absolutely.....I don't understand why it isn't so....it's shameful
Edited on Thu Jul-10-08 01:00 PM by ElsewheresDaughter
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #40
47. At this point, it will take a long time to get there.
A majority of our teachers are monolingual. I'm one of them.

Oh, I had French in high school and spanish and sign language in college. I can remember some phrases; I can't understand the spoken language, or actually communicate in it.

I don't think I ought to lose my job over it, either.

For several years, I taught at a school that was developing an IB PYP curriculum, in preparation for an initial application to be an IB school.

Foreign language is required, and we didn't have any bi-or multi-lingual teachers. So here's what we did:

First, we invited all of our multi-lingual parents to come in to teach classes in whatever their second language was. Not a permanent solution, but it was a start, and it helped to build community. I had a great parent who taught Spanish to my class; once a week, all year. We learned the alphabet, the days of the week and months of the year, a little vocabulary, and to this day I can still sing "The Itsy-Bitsy Spider" and say the flag salute in Spanish.

We also had Korean and Chinese parents who offered some language instruction. I had an Indian student, who also did semi-weekly presentations about Gujariti, giving us little bits and pieces of language, along with cultural information. She was my student for 4 years; we worked in a looping system, plus I changed grade levels.

In addition to that, we researched and found beginner's Spanish lessons on video; we bought them, and went through them right along with our students. We also were able to get a Spanish teacher from the high school to come in once a week and teach a formal class to some of our older students.

We were doing everything we could to at least expose the students to other languages, and develop a little vocabulary. Meanwhile, at the other end of town, our district had a dual immersion program, which is really the way to go if you want students to learn to be fluent in another language. All the bilingual teachers were there, though, so there were none left to work with us!

It's okay if it takes time to accomplish, as long as we take that first step.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #34
62. I've lived in Moscow. They all want 'out'!
They've got great motivation to learn foreign languages.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-11-08 06:26 AM
Response to Reply #62
84. that may be so but, the fact still remains that Russian children are taught foreign langauge s.....
from day one in their schools and we had better start doing the same....the global "world really is flat" and our children are going to be left out otherwise.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
24. 100% agree
Not only practical, but also I think it does good things to your brain :-), really. Just as a rather silly example, the simple fact that you realize that there often no perfect equivalents in another language for a specific word gives you an understanding of how people express themselves differently, different cultural leanings, etc. I don't think it's required for a more global perspective in almost everything, from food to foreign policy, but it definitely helps.

Somewhat related: some years back I was visiting with some friends who live in Holland. We were stopped in the street by an elderly guy, and asked whether we speak "american". My friends tried to hide their laughter (they let it lose a few moments later), and I answered an embarrassed "yes". He of course needed some directions, which only my friends who are quite fluent in english were able to provide.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
33. "Instead of worrying about whether immigrants can learn English, because they will learn English..."
Not necessarily true. Many immigrants remain in this country for a very long time and never learn the language, especially the adults. I don't blame them. English is a difficult language. If they live in a community where they can get along without English, that's fine with me.

A lot of products on grocery shelves, especially sundries, are now labeled in English and Spanish. We're all familiar with telephone "menus" in Spanish and English. It's a good thing, AFAIC.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. No, they should learn English. The tough love should go to everyone,
including immigrants. I will give some latitude to the elderly immigrants, but everyone else should learn English. I speak from experience, as I lived in Germany for a time, and made myself go to classes and learn as much as I could. I didn't get to the point of total fluency, but I could get around by myself no problem. I realize that it is much harder for poor workers who come here and work all the time. But this is where some charities and government assistance comes in -- making it easier to learn. There's also just watching American television in English. I had a German friend who learned English by watching Disney movies that she knew well (dubbed in German), and watching them in English over and over again. Where there is a will there is a way ....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tishaLA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #33
46. recent immigrants from Mexico, El Salvador, and Guatemala
acquire English language fluency more rapidly than any other group in American history except Chinese immigrants. The thing that most hampers them from learning even more quickly? The lack of available ESL classes. http://www.gcir.org/immigration/facts/language http://www.jstor.org/pss/455583 http://www.apsanet.org/content_41251.cfm
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #46
52. They don't have to learn a new alphabet like Russians, Ukies, Koreans, etc.
have to learn. They SHOULD learn faster.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tishaLA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #52
55. I wasn't responding to an orthographic assertion
I'm not sure what it has to do with my response or the assertion to which I responded.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #46
60. That is indeed interesting.
This is supposedly a "free" country, though, and I would prefer to give people the latitude to decide if they want to speak the English language or not. All too often, not only a language fails to pass from one generation to the next due to assimilation, but also the cultural tradition is lost which is tied into the speaking of and identification with their "mother tongue."

I loved living in Houston and hearing the different languages spoken on the street. In time, as the generations slowly abandon the language of their heritage, the richness of those different sounds will be discarded in favor of all speaking English in America. How boring.

I do think it's a good idea for English-speaking students to learn a second language, though, because it teaches them that there is a vast, complex world beyond our borders and our ways.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #60
61. I, too, love hearing different languages in my apt. complex, etc. but
it's important that we have one language to help tie us together. It is specficially because we are diverse that we need one langugage everyone can understand to some degree.

And, yes, kids should be taught other languages much earlier.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #61
64. One language to help tie us together, I like the sentiment behind that idea.
I nominate French :D
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #64
73. Travalliez for me mon ami!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #73
83. Oui, moi aussi!
I have now exhausted my French vocabulary. :7

(Pity, I used to know it much better)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-11-08 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #83
87. Mine's suffered also...
I sure wish they'd pushed it harder in school.

My high school was pretty progressive as kids could also take Russian, which was neat.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-11-08 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #87
89. Russian.
Such a great language. There was a time when I seriously considered learning it, but I would have had no use for it except to amuse myself. :7
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-11-08 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #89
90. Well, the irony was that folks that majored in Russian in college...
had a hell of a time getting jobs. The Feds weren't really interested in you because you knew Russian. If they wanted you to know it, they'd teach it to you.

Folks that studied it in school were seen as suspect. I think Kennan went on a rant about that attitude.

I've had a hell of a time retaining what of it I knew. I could get around Moscow pretty well, and have some conversations, but keeping up has been tough. I read the Russian newspapers online and the Beeb in Russian.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-11-08 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #90
92. You're a lot more accomplished than I am.
:toast:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-11-08 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #92
93. I've been the WORST language student in more classes than you have!
I hope that counts!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-11-08 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #93
94. LOL!
That in itself is an accomplishment. :D
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
35. One reason the US is so monolingual...
...other than ethnocentrism and chauvinism and the politics of fear...

is our geography.

We are a large nation sharing a frontier with only two countries.

Folks who never travel abroad have neither the need to know another language nor the rich experience of seeing how multilingual many other countries are.

The American traveler is blessed with the fact that English is understood by so many others abroad, yet many become defensive at attempts to accommodate other languages here.

Citizens of smaller countries with many neighbors may speak three or four languages fluently.

People I met in Switzerland most impressed me in this manner, speaking French, German, Italian, and English with ease.

:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. Yep. That is the challenge. However, we have met other challenges
in the past. If we made a goal to make sure our kids were multilingual, I think we could achieve it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #35
56. If MD, DC and VA all spoke different languages, so would we all. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
39. hey beachmom
at my job I regluarly speak to people in India, Brazil, Egypt, Spain, Mexico, Phillippines, China, Argentina, Viet Nam - which language would you suggest I learn?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Virginia Dare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #39
42. The OP is about children learning languages, not adults...n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #42
50. sorry, I thought all children became adults n/t
Edited on Thu Jul-10-08 02:21 PM by Skittles
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
demokatgurrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #50
57. Ha! There's where you're wrong. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RichardRay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #50
65. Well, they mostly get older...
I'm not so certain about the 'adult' part, especially if that includes 'growing up'.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blonndee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #42
72. But how does that apply to this poster's "dilemma"?
;)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #39
70. How are you able to do that?
Do they speak at least one other language, perhaps English? Makes the OP's point doesn't it?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #39
71. All of them.
You regularly speak to all these folks. I imagine it's difficult to communicate if there isn't some sort of common tongue in the office.

Which one do you want to learn?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
41. Among other things, this is why pursuing these types is always fruitless
No matter how you rationally appeal to them, their base emotions still hold sway.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
43. You could think by now, people on DU would not think this is controversial?
In my town, it is a graduation requirement to have at least 2 years of foreign language in highschool, and it should be more and with better teachers.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
45. I wish I was taught a second language.
I'd love to speak Spanish. I live in Los Angeles and I would love to be able to speak to people in the stores I shop at in Spanish.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 06:36 PM
Response to Original message
63. Absolutely. Learning the language of another culture does far more than teach language.
Nothing says "I accept you and your culture" like speaking to someone in their native tongue.

It creates strong bonds.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #63
74. When travelling, you are purely a tourist if you don't speak or understand some of the...
Edited on Thu Jul-10-08 08:47 PM by MookieWilson
other country's language. Who in their right mind wants to go to another country and hang out with other United Statesians?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Withywindle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 08:09 PM
Response to Original message
69. It makes my head hurt that this statement is even considered controversial at all.
My mom is fluent in three languages (Portuguese is her native, English and Spanish her second and third.) I only speak English, sadly, but I did take Latin in high school and am so grateful for what it taught me about word structure, grammar, history, etcetera. It was my favorite class.

I can't believe we don't start them younger. I think every kid should learn another language--not just for the employment and cultural savvy factors, but for the way it expands your brain. Resistance to that is pure xenophobia and anti-intellectual crapola, IMO.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #69
80. I absolutely agree. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PADemD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
78. Almost 40 years ago...
I visited Germany. Since I had taken four years of German in high school, I struggled to ask a police officer for directions in my best high school German. When I finished, he asked, "Why didn't you ask me in English?"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 11:27 PM
Response to Original message
82. Ignorance is the lifeblood of the GOP.
Education is a wreath of garlic to them worn to ward off evil information. Must.Stay.Stupid.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-11-08 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
86. Obama's daughters are fluent in Spanish, then?
And Obama speaks...?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-11-08 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
88. like it
eom
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jakem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-11-08 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
91. My son is in a Chinese immersion elementary school. it is amazing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sun May 05th 2024, 06:04 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC