If You're Not Going To Work HARD To Get Obama Elected Please Stay Out Of This Forum

[KittyWampus]

and leave it to those of us devoted to getting him elected. We're going against the tide of Mediawhores, trolls and GOP corruption as it is.

I am sick and tired of logging on to DU, clicking on this particular forum and finding countless threads from DU's own Drama Queens about how they'll just manage to vote for Obama in November but gee whiz, they just can't bring themselves to donate or contribute any time or effort.

This is DU which is devoted to Democrats and this particular forum is devoted to getting Obama elected POTUS.

If you're going to only work or donate to down ticket Democrats why the fuck are you posting in this particular forum?

And by the way, DOWN TICKET DEMOCRATS WILL BENEFIT FROM OBAMA'S 50 STATE STRATEGY.

Not going to donate to Obama? Why the fuck tell us except to covertly encourage other DU'ers to withhold funds?

IMO, this forum is now counter-productive with most energy devoted to railing against Obama.

[democrattotheend]

1. Great post

And I know you have been pretty critical of Obama on FISA, so this is a welcome message coming from you.

[NJmaverick]

2. When it comes to supporting Obama

Either lead, follow or get out of the fucking way. Now use or time to indulge the narcissistic traits of so many DUers. We are fighting for the very future of our nation, and they are whining and wanting to be indulged.

[DevonRex]

10. I'd say it's about 50/50. Some want to be indulged. Some want

Obama to lose. And it's a damn shame either way.

[NJmaverick]

30. You're probably right

I suspect most of that 50% supported other candidates in the primary. They want to be able to say they were right (that Obama couldn't get elected) even though it would mean terrible things to the Country. In the end they are being just as self indulgent, just in a different manner.

[DevonRex]

35. Hmm. Yes, you are right. Both halves are self indulgent. Never

thought about it that way. It certainly has nothing to do with what's good for the country, that's for sure.

[Name removed]

205. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bake]

136. Third option.

Nice Pug strategy, though, it trying to falsely frame those as the only two options.

Third option:

Some of us DO support Obama, regardless of who we supported in the primaries. The primaries are OVER.

We are, however, disappointed that our cadidate, billed as a Constitutional Law prof. who stands for CHANGE, voted for the FISA bill which is simply more of the same old shit we've been getting rammed down our throats for the past eight years.

We have stated our displeasure. That doesn't mean we're not voting for Obama. We don't want him to lose. We do recognize that we have only two choices: Obama or McCain. But it doesn't mean that we're not disappointed as HELL in our candidate. We thought he was going to be different. "New kind of politics" and all. And we DO want him to listen to our voices as well as the voices of those telling him to do whatever is necessary POLICY-WISE to get elected.

Bake

[dionysus]

165. Bake, there's a big difference between the valid concerns (no snark intended, that word has been

been much ruined by now here)and those who never have or never will support Obama that are just using this as an excuse to bash. I don't lump you into that category, you're even handed. You do see it with some people don't you?

[Bake]

297. Sure, of course you are right!

There ARE some who do not, never have and never will support our candidate, and they are using FISA as an excuse to say "Told you so!" I'm glad you don't count me in that number, because I'm NOT one of them.

:hi:

Bake

[dionysus]

299. i 'm no kreskin but i think it is fairly easy to spot the kind of people who are insincere...

:hi:

[nankerphelge]

171. Yes...

Plus my ability to donate to Obama has been curtailed since I now have to give more of limited funds to the ACLU.

[midnight]

243. I agree. And why should we remain silent about the

most important issues of the day to appease the fearful. I cannot understand why our speech has to fit a mode of consitant approval for the leaders of this country that our not standing for the rule of law, but changing it to cover their tracks. Come on D.U. we are better than this.

[mkultra]

269. well, like skinner said earlier

If you where adamantly for another candidate in the primary, and you only vaguely support the current nominee, don't be surprised when people jump on your for repeated criticism. It looks a whole lot like bashing.

[anon504]

293. Other options

All this talk about McCain being a 3rd term for Bush...what about Obama? Seems he's fulfilling that ideal pretty well on his own. Ban me from here if you must, but I have to admit that Obama's recent swerve to the right has me thinking of other options.

[peacetalksforall]

197. Self deleted - replaced by 199

[peacetalksforall]

199. Evidently, you don't know or understand what it is to feel this bad.

I'm not represented. There is a blaise approach to the Constitution, Bill of Rights by someone who is supposed to be a scholar but who does not value it the same way I do. My leaders, it seems, are in the ACLU.

I still haven't read anything that explains the rationale of losing what we lost here, preceded by other losses that they acquiesed to.

I look at specific losses and I see no end to them. It's not my fault

I just witnessed a tragedy. What do you want of a person who is passionate about what I believe is a most precious possession - privacy combined by sneaky accumulation of the most trite and most serious of personal data - stored for possible harm. The same disappointing Senators have done nothing about the loss of my vote. It all adds up. They are cohorts in the losses and enablers in invading and plundering other nations.

I can't accept their votes and Obama is with them.

Some of us have no leaders until supposed leaders prove us wrong. Perhaps others who feel as I do will find each other someplace else. In the meantime, we're still capable of fighting against Republicans.

[NJmaverick]

257. What you don't understand is that Obama has to fight to get elected

if he doesn't win that battle, he can't help or represent anyone. It's really a simple concept, but so many DUers have trouble grasping or understanding it.

[cultfree]

296. But we are Democrats...

But we are Democrats who want our Democratic leaders to uphold the principles we hold dear. There are some things that can be compromised on, but gutting the 4th Amendment should not be one of them. This is not really even about Obama. Why would ANY of the Dem Senators vote in favor of that??? It IS really painful and unacceptable.

[TonyClifton]

229. Your language is offensive

Why do you need to type the "F" word to offer your opinion on something? Show some grown up skills please. Thank you

[PeaceNikki]

249. I'm offended by people being offended by specific words.

Especially words that are "taboo" for no identifiable reason.

[Sheets of Easter]

250. Says the poster who took his name from a foul-mouthed Andy Kaufman character.

[EstimatedProphet]

262. What the fuck are you talking about?

/end Lebowski

[mkultra]

270. most grown ups dont have a problem with curse words

they are, after all, just words.

[WinkyDink]

315. Really? I thought that was true of adolescents. As for "just words": So is "n****r".

If you want to pursue that inane argument.

[Coexist]

273. your avatar and his boss use that word quite often - how do you manage to watch their shows

with your delicate sensibilities?

[QC]

275. I dunno--I kinda like the way her foul language and constant verbal abuse of others contrast

with the scripture quote in her sig line.

[progdonkey]

316. your prudishness is offensive...

You're not being offended at the actual meaning of the statement, but at the inclusion of a stupid little four-letter word.

What offends you more? "Bush should be allowed to suspend any and all civil rights to protect me from the bad Muslims" or "Bush is a fucking fascist"? If the latter offends you more, then you need to get your fucking head examined.

The first person is advocating the subversion of the Constitution but the other person said "fuck"! That's so offensive!

[countingbluecars]

3. K&R

[bunnies]

4. word. nt

[ourbluenation]

5. ita

:kick:

[PinkTiger]

6. Somebody needs a nap. nt

[VeraAgnes]

102. Is this a "New Rule" here on DU?

I didn't get the memo unless this is the memo.........Oh my, I'm confused...First I want to discuss the campaign now I need to work.....or never talk to anyone in this Forum. That is a hard line to hold. :wow: :scared:

[Sherman A1]

153. Agreed

:wtf:


I really don't think I need a lecture and I can figure out who I will support and how I will do so for myself....

Thank You Kindly.

[bjobotts]

230. My Obama right or wrong even if he says he wants to torture-He'sstill a dem

[bjobotts]

231. Support Lieberman-he's almost a dem, and Hoyer and Rockefeller

[bjobotts]

232. Hell, even if republicans slip a D after their name..support 'em

[bjobotts]

233. You can vote for Obama and still criticize him when he's wrong...at DU

[bjobotts]

234. Principles before personalities. Dems should act like dems or dems will call 'em on it.

[EstimatedProphet]

251. You do realize you're talking to yourself, right?

[DevonRex]

7. I agree. This board has become about NOT supporting the

candidate. How many threads have there been in the last few weeks about witholding support, money, time, energy? And yesterday some flat out stated that they wanted some OTHER candidate to oust Obama at the convention. And today, there have been several posts about getting him out of the way so a better candidate can run in 2012.

That is NOT what I come here for. These posts are clearly meant to curb enthusiasm and encourage not voting for whatever insane reason.

I don't give a rat's ass about people who say they aren't even going to vote. As far as I'm concerned, they're no better than republicans. Except that admitted republicans aren't on this board so I don't have to read their shit.

Sorry for the rant, but I'm fed up.

[elizm]

17. I thought moderators were supposed to monitor for rules being broken...

"Members are expected to be generally supportive of progressive ideals, and to support Democratic candidates for political office."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules_detailed.html

[DevonRex]

20. They did a fantastic job yesterday. It must have been difficult.

Unfortunately some folks know exactly how to fly just under the radar.

[KittyWampus]

32. EXACTLY. There was one long time poster (known for invoking the Holocaust) who escaped

the tombstone for years. "She" really knew how to fly under the radar and basically admitted it.

[DevonRex]

36. And those piss me off no end. They're just as demoralizing as the

other ones. Well, I take that back. Probably more demoralizing because they're always here, always spewing garbage. It's quite depressing.

Well, not anymore. I'm totally pissed off and I will make my views known in no uncertain terms.

[Name removed]

80. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SwampG8r]

124. who got pizza yesterday i missed it

not gravedancing just curious

[LowerManhattanite]

126. A horse. They did movie about its life. Tobey Maguire rode him. Now he's glue.

[Name removed]

127. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

128. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TooBigaTent]

31. I guess the parsing of the quote means that "generally supportive of progressive ideals" means

not a member of the Klan or not planning to assassinate Democratic office holders while "support Democratic candidates" is Commandment #1.

I recommend that the name just be changed to Obama Aboveground and ban any dissent. That way, the quest for power can continue without criticism.

[VeraAgnes]

123. Correct but the OP wants a higher standard of delivery

if I understand this correctly...not just support, but work hard.


snip>

"If You're Not Going To Work HARD To Get Obama Elected Please Stay Out Of This Forum"

I got asked to help-out at an Obama event tomorrow...........is that sufficient? I'm driving over to my sisters house in Ohio tonight for the event tomorrow.

[Indenturedebtor]

131. That's the problem. The first part of that sentence

"Members are expected to be generally supportive of progressive ideals, and to support Democratic candidates for political office."

Is it wrong of me to say that I won't donate or make any more calls until Obama throws Progressives a bone? I vote Dem because I'm a Progressive Liberal... not because I'm a Dem.

[The Backlash Cometh]

133. You said two things which are now in conflict.

First, "members are expected to be generally supportive of progressive ideals." At the top of those progressive ideals is the commitment to protect the Constitution and Civil Rights.

Secondly, "and to support Democratic candidate for political office."

So, the big question is, where are we suppose to put our priorities when the two conflict? What happens when a Democratic candidate isn't as committed to restoring Civil Rights, as we are?

It's a question you all will eventually have to answer, so I suggest you start thinking about it.

P.S. Obama will win the presidency so all this flailing around with worries that we want him to lose is ludicrous. Frankly, if all he wants to do is look pretty for the conservatives, then we're doing him a favor with our criticism, because no one can ever claim he's a progressive.

[bertman]

200. elizm, If preserving the Fourth Amendment of the Constitution isn't a progressive ideal,

please tell me what is?

If sending money to the Democratic candidate and volunteering our valuable time to his campaign isn't supporting our Democratic Presidential candidate, please tell me what is?

If exercising our rights as AMERICANS FIRST and as Democrats second to question the decisions of our party's chosen candidate isn't a progressive ideal, please tell me what is?

After 40 years of supporting Democratic winners and losers I don't need to hear this kind of totalitarian shit from anybody. Especially on a board for the Democratic party. You need to re-examine your concept of democracy. This is the Democratic Party--not the Republican Party.

[rpannier]

207. I think that's where the rub is

When the Democratic candidate(s) vote in a way that is the anti-thesis of progressive ideals.

Which is the trump card?

Pelosi, Reid, Feinstein, etal get their fair share of criticism because of decisions they've made.

Personally, if you want to criticize them for their idiotic votes -- Do so. It's appropriate.
You wanna say you won't donate -- fine. It's your money.
You wanna say you won't campaign for them -- It's your right, but it seems idiotic to say it. So, you won't campaign -- WTF cares?!

You wanna say you won't vote for Obama, Pelosi, etc -- Get out and don't let the door hit you as exit.

[rudy23]

8. I'm one of those people, and I stand behind my statement.

I am not a sheep whose vote can be taken for granted. That's my main point here, to "put it out there" that the Democratic leadership cannot take the base for granted just because there's nowhere else for us to go. This will deflate the base's energy, moreso than it will pick up independents, in my view.

I will work hard to get local Democrats elected, and I will donate to the ACLU and representatives who stand up for Democratic ideals, like Senator Feingold.

The 4th amendment is not an "issue" to move towards the "center" on. It's the backbone of our freedom, and Sen. Obama stayed nearly silent while members of HIS party flushed it down the commode.

[DevonRex]

12. This is GD:Presidential. If you have nothing to contribute to

getting our nominee elected and are simply going to work for other things, then this is NOT the board for you.

[rudy23]

48. I didn't put my post on GD:P, this is my response to the OP

My post where I stated that there are consequences for a candidate "moving to the center", actually moving to the extreme right on something like the 4th amendment (eta: was in GP). That's not just an issue, it's a pretty important amendment. I don't know, I will still support him, but I just can't find the energy anymore to do much else.

[Catherina]

51. Who died and made you Queen? n/t

[DevonRex]

54. What have you said lately that's positive about the candidate? nt

[Catherina]

69. I won't say anything positive about him until he gives me something positive to say

Sorry. I'm not going to be part of a lock-step foot-stomping cheerleading brigade. I backed Obama for issues and he's been fucking up. Expect no fawning over him. This isn't a rock concert.

[sniffa]

192. I suggest you guys start using "goose step" instead. It has more pizazz

And I thought you were leaving or something? :shrug:

[Catherina]

70. I won't say anything positive about him until he gives me something positive to say

Sorry. I'm not going to be part of a lock-step foot-stomping cheerleading brigade. I backed Obama for issues and he's been fucking up. Expect no fawning over him. This isn't a rock concert.

[Joe Fields]

221. Why is it so hard for you to recognize and accept the genuine angst

that comes from the members of this board? Why is it that you don't feel betrayed?

[KittyWampus]

57. when was the LAST supportive comment you've contributed concerning Obama? You are exposede

as the agitator you really are.

[Catherina]

67. "exposede"? LMAO. I'm just sick of empty-headed cheerleaders

who are acting like a bunch of jack booted thugs. The very fact that you think that has somehow "exposede" me as an agitator, speaks very lowly of your thinking skills. :shrug:

[reflection]

111. Indecent exposedesure! n/t

[KittyWampus]

182. aw, aren't you so very sharp. You found an errant "e" and think it means something

other than the fact I had to get back to work.

And I do recognize your username and the fact you've nothing constructive to say regarding the POTUS election and our candidate.

[Joe Fields]

222. Hi Catherina! Although their brand of thuggery makes me sick also,

I have to admit that this particular exchange exposede a smile on my face.

:toast: :pals:

[ronnykmarshall]

74. Catherina exposede?

Oh dear!

Agitator? I don't think so.


We are all on the same team now (hopefully), but not sheep. I will be voting for Obama in Novemember. With much more excitement than I would have thought I could a few months ago.

[Catherina]

91. I think you inherited my excitement but I'm happy for you about the enthusiasm

I wish I could regain it but looking back, I realize I was too high there for a while. What made you more excited? It would be helpful to hear that instead of demands that people get in line.

[ronnykmarshall]

94. I think just getting past the primary did it for me.

Plus how Hillary and Barack have put the primary behind them. They're appearance in NH was great.

But I get where you're coming from . I don't take well to demands to fall in line either. I do believe that Obama's latest actions are for politcal reasons and I think his picture perfect image has been tarnished.

I just can't see Bush 3 in the White House. Which is why I'm supporting the ticket. Sure it's not the one I wanted, but I think Obama will do a good job. He sure as hell has a big mess to clean up.

[Catherina]

101. When we got past the Primaries and I saw Hillary genuinely throw her support

behind Obama, I thought we had it made. I guess we're just meeting in our own version of the center now, you from your low and me from my high. I hope he doesn't mess this up because it should have been a landslide but now he's got the Left in a dangerous uproar. He'll do a better job than McCain but it's a disappointment to have that as the goal. I'm glad you're more enthusiastic about it now. Worse Ronny, I'm jealous ;)

[ronnykmarshall]

114. Don't worry.

I think he's gonna be ok. We got through the primary and remember democrats came out in record numbers to vote for Hillary or Barack. I think we can still build on that and roll on to victory in November and also hold Barack to his word once he's in office.

Hang on, we still have a ways to go.

[Hoof Hearted]

206. Ronny K, congrats to you and Michael, once again! Beautiful wedding.

Just beautiful. :)

[ronnykmarshall]

272. Thank you so much!

:loveya:

[Imagevision]

156. Hillary genuinely throwing her support behind Obama?

I genuinely see Hillary attempting to raise 12 million+ to pay past election bills accumulated. At the rate she's going can we expect Hil to come out for Barack every 2-3 weeks? (depending on the amount of cash Obama raises thru his supporters). And when is 'kiss my ass' Bill going to make an appearance?!!

[comradebillyboy]

176. Since Barak was so critical of the Clinton administration

why would he want Clinton to support him? Isn't he running as the anti-Clinton, no more triangulation, no more caving in to republicans, standing up for progressive values etc? Has Obama asked Clinton to do anything for him any way?

Its Obama's job to unify the party under his leadership.

[LVjinx]

217. Why would Bill support Obama? The campaign said he was racist, remember?

[Forkboy]

79. You've exposed something in this thread alright....

[sufrommich]

81. Yeesh,listen to yourself.

<a href="" target="_blank"><img src="" border="0" alt="mob rule"></a>

[Name removed]

132. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[paulk]

140. pretty big britches for someone who's only been here

a few months.

Is that rally you, Skinner?

[saracat]

152. Exactly what gives you the right to demand anything from DU posters? And to

inflict"your" personal interpretation of what this forum is about on others? GD: Presidential is about the presidential campaign but there are many routes to Rome and many do not see it as "supporting the nominee" to ignore comments his campaign or he make in regard to the Constitution or other issues. Some may view it as "constructive" to point out where they do not think his comments are beneficial to vote getting.I for instance, want to see a democrat in the WH but I disagree that support of faith Based Initiatives will get him there. I disagree that evangelicals will vote for him. That is my opinion.

DU is a "mixed bag of activists and for many of us, this isn't our first rodeo and for some it is their first experience. All opinions should be welcome.

You seem to have a "personal " interpretation of what it takes to elect our nominee and and individual "interpretation". of what hard work is. George Bush used to talk a lot about "hard work" too!

You also seem to indicate that those who are "not enthusiastic" about the nominee but are voting for him anyway are somehow not entitled to an opinion. You obviously have no empathy about what "hard work it is to "support" or even vote for a candidate that you are less than thrilled with.That is indeed a difficult task. But many of us are compelled to do just that because this is our nominee whether we like him or not. I worked the Crowd in 112 degree heat on the 4th of July and convinced folks to change party registrations and vote for local candidates. I handed out Obama stickers and pins. I wore a pin myself.He is still not my fav of the primary candidates.

We are NOT , however required to give up our right to express discontent with viewpoints expressed by any candidate.

I think for a fairly new DUer your demands of our members are outrageous.

[bread_and_roses]

202. I Second that . And it's good to see so much dispute of the OP in the thread- the # of Rs,

on the other hand, is most disturbing.

(edit spacing error)

[bowens43]

244. Why ? Because you say so newbie?

[Butch350]

13. You rant is BullShit...

What have you been doing for 7 years!

[DevonRex]

16. Yep. I call bullshit, too. And I want to know where these

FISA people were when the bill was being crafted. Were they somewhere else ranting all day and night? Were they so enraged that they were camped outside the Capitol protesting? Were they calling their reps day after day?

Of course not. We never heard a fucking peep out of them until now. And miraculously, FISA is all Obama's fault. Nobody elses. :sarcasm:

[Zodiak]

75. The bill was crafted behind closed doors by Steny Hoyer with Pelosi's backing

And announced the next day...that is when the outrage began. No one had a chance to protest.

Please do not pretend like the outrage just started yesterday....yesterday was when the chickens came home to roost and the outrage came to a boil. This has been going on for months. The bill was brought up time and time again, even though it was rejected time and again.

It has been less than 24 hours since this vote, and I am afraid all of the cajoling, threats, and intimidation will only make the fallout worse. People feel the way they fell, and there is nothing you can do to change that other than let it play out...if you try to stifle it, supporters will slip through your fingers.

The Democratic party made a monumental mistake yesterday, and forced our nominee to make a Hobson's choice that would inevitably leave him cut off at the knees with some of his most ardent supporters. There is no candy-coating this.

Will people vote for Barrack still?...sure, but less so than yesterday, and that is profoundly sad and will not be dismissed by rationalization or pleas for unity.

[QC]

82. Thank you. n/t

[Catherina]

92. ! OMG. You get it!

:loveya:

[Breeze54]

98. Thank You!!!!

:applause: :applause:

[PassingFair]

119. He just threw "the informed base" under the bus.

Those who were hoping he would be a more
progressive President than the corporate
sponsored Hillary Clinton have been sorely
disabused by this vote.

[JuniperLea]

141. Very well said!! Brilliant!

I was one of the biggest peaceniks during the primary season... my pleas for unity were a lot easier to support than this, and I got beat up and bloodied quite a bit.

Thanks for putting this so well.

[DevonRex]

154. Anyone who doesn't vote for Obama because of this one bill

was never really a democrat to begin with. That is my opinion. And if they can't heed the calls for unity OR listen to rational discussion on the political reality that our candidate operates in, then I don't know of ANY candidate or ANY party that would make them happy.

And you would think that Obama is solely responsible for its text, the timing of the vote, AND that somehow he was the deciding vote in the Senate. Discussion is fine. Placing all the blame on ONE person, who happens to be our candidate, is NOT fine IMO. It is dishonest. But that is what has been happening HERE, at DU, on GD Presidential.

I DO NOT LIKE THIS FISA BILL. There has been legitimate discussion of the issue here. There has also been a LOT of opportunism by folks who probably would never have voted for him anyway, to say they're witholding their vote or their money or their time. IMO, this is done specifically for the purpose of tamping down enthusiasm and trying to make it seem as if there are lots of people who WILL NOT VOTE in order to encourage other people NOT TO VOTE.

That is my opinion. And I will NOT back down on this. McCain WILL be a disaster. That much is a known FACT. Anyone who doesn't vote for Obama votes for McCain. It is really quite simple.

[Jakes Progress]

195. Yep. There's something very simple here.

It's the thought processes of some people. I don't know what we call them. DeWALR? Democrats Who Act Like Republicans. Or DeWAPs? Democrats Who Aren't Progressives. It's no wonder they like FISA (though they protest). It's got all the Fascism they could want. They could make big signs and flags and demand purity tests. See, you guys aren't the only ones to go over the top.

This would all be better if you could just admit that the Democratic Party is heading he wrong way and worry with us as we try to put the Democrat we've nominated in the White House. All this "Oh Noes. They be picking on my Barack" crap is for wimps. He screwed up. Not only did he vote the wrong way, he gave the Republicans a huge campaign talking point. Don't be so asinine as to suggest that the Republicans will get their talking points from us. They know how to play this mess. We fussed about Kerry's campaign. We fuss about Bill's behavior. That doesn't mean we don't vote for them. All this huffing and puffing and tiny foot stamping is only making the issue worse. So keep on pretending to be in charge of DU, pretending Skinner listens to you. All it will do is make it worse. Of course, keeping the drama going may be just what your like.

Me. I'm going to tell the man who is asking me for a job what I expect him to do when he gets it. He works for me, not the other way around. I'm going to vote for him. I imagine I'll get some enthusiasm back sometime before November, because I certainly hope he starts acting like a progressive. Right now, my money is going to the ACLU who will do the right thing about my fourth amendment rights, which my father and brother put on uniforms and got shot trying to protect. My canvassing and phoning and volunteering will go to our state candidate, Rick Noriega. If he can kick Carbon Copy Cornyn out of the Senate, Barack will have an easier time doing the right thing once he is in office.

Stop whining on DU. Go to the local Democratic Headquarters and go to work. I was there last week. Told them how pissed I was and signed up. Most of them are pissed too. There's a difference between being pissed and just pissing.

[DevonRex]

308. You obviously know nothing about me because you incorrectly

assumed many things in your post.

1. I DO work for Obama. I have worked for the campaign since the fall. I work NOW for the campaign in various aspects.

2. My son works for Obama, even writing briefs for him for his last Colorado visit.

3. I DO wish people to have input into his campaign. That is what this is all about. I'm glad you have given yours.

4. I do NOT whine. I say what I think. And tough shit if that offends you, bud.

[Jakes Progress]

310. Oooh. She said "shit"

You did not address the issue I put forward in my post. You got your little feelings hurt because you took my post personally. You do a lot of work for progressive agendas? Good for you. From my work at the local headquarters, I find that very few of these extremely giving and hardworking leftists have even heard of DU, hence my call for more work and less whine. So I apologize if you took my post to be about you personally. Was the OP about me personally? I didn't take it that way. Tell me if you know all about me. Why would you think I would write about you if I didn't know you. You were writing to the public; so was I. Not everything is about you.

The part of my post that you avoided was my call for Obama supporters to help him get elected. The premise of my post was that those calling for people to shut up and get off of DU are not really very clear on what the political climate is now, that becoming republican lite is not going to get him elected and may very well cost him what should be an easy victory. At the very least it will cost the progressive movement precious time once Obama is in office. We will have to deal with the DINO's that are so happy to have our candidate supporting them now that they will be twice as lazy and four times as sleazy after the election.

(Oh. And pretending to be the forum owner is not good form.)

[GihrenZabi]

267. *rolls eyes*

You are demonstrating "party line thinking."

I would argue that anyone who just blindly supports a Party no matter what they do is not really being an American to begin with.

I don't think that you can really claim to be an "American" in any meaningful sense unless you believe in the ideals of our Founders - namely that you dissent, that you question, that you demand your rights and that you are willing to fight for others'.

That's what made America great - and is it any coincidence that the less we uphold these values as a nation, as "citizenship" is defined not by adherence to these values but only by the trick of fate that we happened to be born within these borders, that our country is falling apart?

[John Q. Citizen]

298. your perspective isn't helping obama's fund raising or his poll numbers. If that's OK,

then stick with your perspective.

If your perspective is more important than winning big, then stick to it, really hard.

Me, I'd rather win big.

Right now, Obama is giving speeches saying quite loudly and directly that he is a progressive. That is the political reality our candidate operates in. He hasn't forgotten this, even if some of his more zealous supporters have.

Why is he saying this? Because his FISA vote was stupid politics. Not just bad policy. But stupid politics. Look at Obama's poll numbers. They are going down. Look at his fundraising numbers. Same thing.

Why? Is it because everyone else isn't as loyal a Democrat as you? No, that's not it.

It's because Obama made a political mistake: He switched positions on FISA and pissed off his most enthusiastic, most activist, most likely to knock on doors, most likely to send in a check supporters.

The faster we quit defending a mistake, the quicker we get back to where we were before the mistake occurred. The quicker our numbers go back up and the money starts coming in.

Apparently the so-called centrists, middle, whatever or where ever that is aren't sending in money and aren't rushing to support Obama because he backed bush's FISA. They could care less about FISA But the people who care about it really really care about it.

Saying it's just one vote on one bill isn't going to make those people quit caring about it.

So that's your choice.

You can stick to your guns, claim anyone who cares about FISA is a dummy and watch Obama's numbers tank, or you can acknowledge that FISA was a mistake, and start figuring how to mitigate the error.

What's it going to be?

[fascisthunter]

162. well said

:thumbsup:

[Joe Fields]

223. I appreciate your understanding.

This may be hard for some people to believe, but I would rather do anything than be bitching and getting pissed about the behavior of my party leaders. This hasn't been easy for us to have to swallow.

[bowens43]

248. You said it. They made Obama do a Kerry.

much like when Kerry did his stupid little soldier boy salute and said John Kerry reporting for duty....that is what cost him the electuion. Obama has made a major misstep here and I'll be damned if I won't discuss it (unless of course the moderators put it off limits)

I support Obama and have from the beginning but I won't sit down shut up.

[nadinbrzezinski]

146. You have not been paying attention then

and is this the fourth talking point?

Stinks like the rest of them

[AZBlue]

117. You can believe whatever you want, but you should go to forums that reflect those beliefs.

This is a forum for supporting the Democratic Presidential Candidate. And that is Barack Obama.

[fascisthunter]

163. And What Makes You Think He/She is Not a Supporter?

He/she can feel and say what they just said still be an active supporter. You may not know or realize this, but this type of attitude is pushing folks away from the Democratic Party as whole.

[cyclezealot]

285. Ever heard constructive criticism is a good thing.

Democratic Underground, I'd hope would also be democratic.

[LoZoccolo]

196. Lame. n/t

[Butch350]

9. Yeah, get busy living OR get busy dying!!

[ohtransplant]

11. Agreed.

As a wise man (Bubba, I think we called him.)once said, (paraphrasing)The primaries are for falling in love. The GE is for falling in line. We're mot always going to agree with him 100%.

BO is our nominee. It's time to rally behind him. The reasons are many so if they aren't obvious I can't help you.

We can't have 4 more years of destruction, profiteering, war-mongering, class warfare and democracy-shattering.

K&R

Peace

[rg302200]

14. Great POST

K&R

[sufrommich]

15. Anybody who comes to a discussion board with the

idea that it is somehow imperative to an election,or that posts written here are being heeded on a grand national scale,is bound for endless frustration. DU is a forum for Democrats,who frequently disagree. I will never understand why the content here seems so life or death large to some.It's a moderated forum with rules,posters who break those rules get tombstoned,beyond that it's pretty much open to disagreement.

[Norrin Radd]

22. They get off on the hyperbole, and the finger wagging.

[EstimatedProphet]

255. Quite

It's a discussion board. That's it. It's the equivalent of a breakroom, without the office around it.

It's funny (ha ha) how so many people take it so seriously. I always get a kick out of the people that say that banning posters is a violation of First Amendment rights!

[tishaLA]

18. I've gotta agree with you

I don't like the FISA vote either, but I want to get him elected. This place is constant negativity.

[Colobo]

19. This is DEMOCRATIC Undeground and Obama is the head of the DEMOCRATIC Party

That should say it all.

[bowens43]

245. THe key word is Democratic.

We're not a bunch of lemmings.

[cags]

21. Is this not an election "discussion" board? Maybe a presidential support only board is needed

[DevonRex]

I haven't seen you post anything in support of the candidate. nt

[cags]

33. He wasn't my first choice, no, but I have donated and I'm about to sign up to volunteer in TX

Even though I am dissapointed in the choice, doesn't mean that I don't know that this election is extremely important. McCain is not an option, and I'm hoping to help turn the state of Texas blue!

But this is a discussion board to discuss the candidate, not an organized blind support organization for Obama. Posting here does nothing to help get Obama elected. The work for Obama is outside of DU. DU is a place to discuss what is going on and what you think about it.

If you want a discussion board dedicated solely for the support of the nominee and not a general discussion board then ask for it. But I don't think this board is that.

Here I can say I think Obama is making a mistake if I want to...

[DevonRex]

41. It'd be really nice to see you say something positive HERE. Kind

of like practice for the volunteer work you'll be doing in Texas. :shrug:

[cags]

49. Done

[DevonRex]

50. Thank you. :) nt

[geek tragedy]

72. Why don't you found a "Cindy rulez and Michelle is teh suck"

board?

Your CONCERN is duly noted.

[jonnyblitz]

23. you people who think DU is more than just a discussion board

need to seriously go seek fucking TREATMENT SOON. we are just discussing the issues and posting on a discussion board for chrissake. lose your DELUSIONS of GRANDEUR thinking this place is more than just THAT!!! LOG THE FUCK OFF of DU and do REAL STUFF for the campaign if you want to get OBama elected. POSTING HERE IS DOING NOTHING, GET A GRIP ON REALITY PLEASE!! :crazy:

[KittyWampus]

34. you're a prime example. And this forum is a valuable tool for gathering/disseminating information

and sharing ideas, energy, enthusiasm.

If YOU didn't think so, YOU wouldn't spend so much time trashing Obama for FISA as you have been.

[nadinbrzezinski]

68. Because the work for ANY CAMPAIGN is not done on a computer board

cyber activism will get you nowhere

That is why

Go walk precincts . Stuff envelopes, register voters

THAT GRIMY DIRTY WORK is the real work

[Catherina]

52. Word n/t

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[1Hippiechick]

87. Yippee Skippy! Love the post! n/t

[EstimatedProphet]

256. Hear hear!

[mtnsnake]

282. AMEN, jonnyblitz!

Best post on this thread!

[elocs]

24. Since this board is General Discussion: Presidential and we already have our nominee with Obama,

then who might we be trying to convince people to vote for other than Obama? If you are not on this particular forum to aid in the election of Barack Obama, then you really should consider posting elsewhere. Just remember: if you post anywhere on DU then you are expected to support Obama and Democratic candidates over all others. (That's why it is called the DemocraticUnderground.)

[DevonRex]

27. I agree totally. There are lots of sites where they can work

against our candidate to their hearts' content.

[Cherchez la Femme]

188. Soooo

who do you plan to convince, then, if your boards are all to be neatly in lock-step,
All Things Bright and Beautiful, with nary a discouraging word?
I mean, I keep hearing about all this precious work and organization supposedly in constant progress but don't SEE anything but demands for Happy Happy Joy Joy and if you're not: git da fug out!
From the attitudes I've seen, I'm half expecting to see Reserved tents for the Democrats who are more equal than others;
and the Loyalty Oaths to come out, which in the posts above, almost did.

and I don't mean 'come out' in a good way -- is that even the Democratic way anymore?
That it's getting hard to tell is alarming, cause I'll tell ya the truth: many of us are squinting and it seems our allotted tent is more and more resembling a familiar closet.

Just wonderin' :shrug:

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Diamonique]

26. Great post! I wish the moderators would start cracking down.

This forum is for promoting our candidate. Constructive criticism is one thing... but GDP has turned into an anti-Obama forum.

[DevonRex]

28. Yes it has. And I'm angry as hell and I'm NOT gonna take it

anymore.

[Hoof Hearted]

209. Then you better get yourself your own board and start policing it - this one doesn't belong to you.

sux, I know.

[bowens43]

247. YOu really need to take some chill pills.

[TexasObserver]

29. DEMOCRATS rally behind the nominee. It's a simple concept.

Every four years this shit happens. Most of the party focuses on winning, while about 10% of the party spends every fucking day wailing about how they are not happy with what the candidate is saying or doing. These babies cost us election after election, always pouting nonstop for the general election.

[skooooo]

37. Apparently not simple enough for some puritanical prima donnas around here.

[DevonRex]

40. These babies DO cost us every time until NOW. I'll just donate

more, make more calls and work my ass off. This time they won't get away with it. Not THIS time.

[TexasObserver]

160. you are correct!

[GihrenZabi]

268. Perhaps your candidates cost you elections?

Perhaps the spinelessness of the Democratic Party and their being "Republican Lite" in actuality lose them elections?

You can't rally opposition IF YOU DON'T ACT LIKE AN OPPOSITION!

When the hell are Democrats going to realize that unless and until they turn back to the Left they will never, EVER, hold commanding amounts of political power for more than the time it takes them to undo whatever damage the previous Republican administration did?

Only this time, they won't be able to because the problems we face require truly progressive, and perhaps radical, solutions - the Dems won't do it, so Obama will get elected, the Dems will control congress, Congressional approval ratings will continue to plummet, if Obama attempts to hold the center things will get worse, and in four years America will say "Gee, perhaps we should give the Republicans another try" when they campaign about how useless the Dems have been.

OR, the Dems could turn Left, enact some of those radical changes like pulling the rug out from Big Oil and getting us on a meaningful path to energy independence, ending corporate welfare, and perhaps instituting some REFORM in government; salary caps, term limits, voting rights - all of which may motivate scores of Americans to get involved in the process again?

[MadrasT]

38. Whoot! K&R!!

Thanks for saying what needed to be said. :woohoo:

[cavuto]

39. This is not the way you gonna get him elected !!!

trying to stifle sane and deserved criticism of his strategy and choices is not the way you gonna get him elected. You can work as hard as you want, but if he doesnt change what he's doing now ,he's gonna fail.

the party should be interested in getting a democrat elected .Setting his agenda is a big part of that.

[TexasObserver]

42. I can't tell you're the guy who just got tombstoned.

Honest, I can't.

Cavuto?! What next, Roger Ailes?

[DevonRex]

44. LOL! Is that the idiot who posted Mort's column? Hee hee. nt

[elocs]

47. I think the point is that this particular forum should be for aiding Obama's election.

There are other forums here at DU where people may post constructive criticism (I am sure it would not be otherwise) or dissent if only so many were not so shy or reluctant about doing that. The bottom line here at DU is that you are expected to support Obama if you want to post here (this is a private message board that has it own rules and that is one of them).

[comradebillyboy]

180. Maybe a dissent forum would be a good thing

and then GDP could be reserved for exclusively positive comments. Then it would be much easier to ID the dissenters and tombstone them.

[LWolf]

43. Since you are busy working hard to elect Obama,

I'm surprised you have time to start threads bitching about other Democrats on DU. I'm sure there's something more productive you could be doing for Obama.

Meanwhile, those of us who recognize that the presumptive nominee has an effect on the party and the future of the nation will continue to discuss his words and actions, and will continue to apply pressure when necessary. Not that posting at DU applies any pressure, just as posting at DU is not work to elect Obama.

When you can start a thread just to tell us what you are "sick and tired of," we can certainly start threads, or reply to threads, to discuss what we don't like.

Please don't click on those threads, or posts, if it distracts you from your hard work.

[DevonRex]

45. And please don't let US distract YOU from taking down the nominee.

[LWolf]

58. If you think a poster on an anonymous internet board

can "take down the nominee," then you don't have much of a nominee.

If you think a fellow Democrat who intends to hold the party and the nominee accountable for democratic principles is somehow "taking him down," I wonder what kind of party or nominee you are working for.

You may not want to see, hear, or acknowledge it, but holding the party, the nominee, and the elected reps accountable for democratic and Democratic principles is GOOD for the party and the nation.

[Bluerthanblue]

60. if it's really Constitutional Rights that you are concerned about

why not take it to GD?

Bitch all you like without using it to undermine the Democratic Nominee?

Is that too much to ask of fellow Democrats who claim to really care about the well being of everyone?


:shrug:


peace~

[DevonRex]

62. Agreed. Why don't we see 1000 posts on this in GD? Because

it's not really about the issue. It's all about taking down Obama.

[Bluerthanblue]

64. under the banner of "true Democrats"....

seems like we've played this game too many times already-

:shrug:

Guess we need to remember Gandhi's wise counsel-

"First they ignore you, then they mock you, then they fight you, then you win."

It will all be worth it in the end-

:hug:

peace~

[Breeze54]

97. There are at least 35 + OP's about Constitutional Rights in GD now. n/t

[LWolf]

95. I'm concerned about a lot of things.

Constitutional rights being one of those things.

I'm also concerned about the direction of the party, and the direction the nominee is likely to take us.

Those things ARE related to the GE.

Another primary concern at this time is the platform of the Democratic Party, which will be adopted at the convention. I'm concerned that the party will adopt a platform that supports more centrist/right policy. I want a platform we can hold Obama accountable to, not a platform that gives him free reign. I think that these things are all related to the presidential campaign. :shrug:

After the convention, when the platform has been adopted, there will be no reason to post anything here that isn't about GOTV. Until that time, there's every reason.

Meanwhile, I'd like to make the same request in reverse:

now, or after the convention, can we take Obama and the campaign out of GD? Right now there's really little difference between the two, since posters routinely post about Obama and his campaign there as well as here. If you want a division, it goes both ways, and I'm happy to support that. I made one request to that effect already, but I seem to be the lone voice on this one. Feel free to make a request to admins; perhaps if they hear from more than me, they'll be more likely to consider it.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

46. Amen to that.

[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

56. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DevonRex]

59. Thank you. That's why I come here, too. I want productive

discussion, not this constant drum beat of negative shit. And if I hear the damn koolaid meme again I'm just gonna explode.

[nadinbrzezinski]

66. Go walk precincts

give away literature

Posting on an internet board is not being productive

[DevonRex]

73. I do those things, being the Obama precinct captain, thank you very

much.

And I would say that posting negative things on an internet board is REALLY not being productive.

[nadinbrzezinski]

149. You believe that we all must march in lockstep? And dare I say it

not be critical when candidates make a mistake

How un-American of you.

So what other rights are you willing to give to get your HOLLOW victory?

And I mean that as a real question not snark... perhaps since I am thinking LONG TERM and big picture here

[ihavenobias]

130. That's not true actually, it really depends on what you're posting

If you can share that be widely spread to low-info voters (including friends, family and co-workers) you can actually do A LOT online and in conversation.

IMO, the biggest reason McCAin is as close as he is (aside from our terrible MSM) is all of . We need to fight fire with (factual) fire.

That's a much better strategy than putting down any effort that doesn't specifically involve walking precincts and giving away literature. If you can make a kick-ass email the honest truth is that you ARE giving away literature in a very real sense and you ARE sending the information from house to house (possibly hundreds if not thousands or millions of them), in a potentially incredibly efficient way.

There is a place for both approaches and both should be used.

[Scout]

83. koolaid, koolaid, kookaid!

did you explode yet?

[QC]

85. Better do it again, just to be sure. n/t

[DevonRex]

122. Nah. You must not be doin it rite.

[nadinbrzezinski]

65. Free clue, your time will be better spent walking precincts

not that you understand this obviously

[Name removed]

76. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LowerManhattanite]

96. “Jack-booted thugs showing up with the kool-aid”? Whoa...you dropped...

...your tiara...



O' queen of drama! :)

[Catherina]

103. Dropped it right in the kool-aid punch bowl.

Now I'm going to be up all night cleaning it. Damn! Seriously now, what kind of people serve kool-aid at a political event?

I'll stick to water and Lattes, thank you.

[LowerManhattanite]

104. self-delete n/t

[LowerManhattanite]

105. Looks like somebody “cleaned up” your over-the-top comment, too. Ah well. n/t

[Catherina]

106. That was an over the top comment? Like you said, Ah well

:shrug:

[LowerManhattanite]

107. You tell me. The bad boy got nuked.

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Catherina]

71. I see. The old Bush "you're either with me or against me".

Some of you have lost your god-damn minds.

[Bluerthanblue]

78. no- its the reality that you can either

work to help Obama win- or help him lose- you've chosen to help him lose.

I'm pro-choice. But I'm not going to applaud your poor decision.

Or refrain from supporting the candidate who is the only one to offer us any real choices.

You want to cut off your nose to spite your face, that's your option. Don't look to me for approval.

peace~

[Catherina]

88. Seriously, I wasn't looking to you for approval, or anyone else for that matter

I'm looking at a much bigger picture here and I don't like the way it's adding up.

During the Primaries, I overlooked Obama's lack of a record because Clinton's IWR vote, corporatism, and hawkism were unacceptable. He's now going down the same path I was fighting.

I have NEVER made a post here telling anyone not to support Obama or be as disappointed in him as I am but I take grave exception when some citizens trample on other people's rights to discuss valid concerns.

[defendandprotect]

145. No . .. these are YOUR false choices based on your FEAR . . .

fear of honest criticism ---

and your personal opinions of the climate on this board ---


Meanwhile . . .

Not going to donate to Obama? Why the fuck tell us except to covertly encourage other DU'ers to withhold funds?

Immediately upon Obama's change up plays last week DEMOCRACY.COM came in with an e-mail to me

suggesting raising but WITHHOLDING MONEY from the Democrats and Obama until we gain some

leverage over them.

If it continues to be obvious that Democrats are ignoring liberals/progressives, I think other

organizations may do the same thing.

Control over the party by members is a large issue which is going to have to be addressed.

What good to support a party or candidates supporting Republican positions and Cheney/Bush?

[Bluerthanblue]

155. no this is reality- and parse your angst all you like- you will NEVER

be able to make the case that there is no difference between an Obama presidency and a McCain one.

What good does your bitching on a message board do to protect your Constitutional rights?

You think you are 'controlling' the party by dissing the candidate?

:shrug:

THE REALITY is that we have 2 choices for president. Obama or McCain. I have absolutely no problem making the choice for Obama, EVEN if he and I do not see eye to eye on more than the FISA vote.
I'm not afraid- I'm disapointed in the way SOME people with personal agendas are hiding behind this FISA vote-


peace~

[defendandprotect]

158. I've just told you the reality of DEMOCRACY.COM and you're in denial ---

and that's just the point . . . you don't hold opinions . . . you have obsessions.

And this is further proof of that desire to shut off reality and follow obsessions . . .

no this is reality- and parse your angst all you like- you will NEVER
be able to make the case that there is no difference between an Obama presidency and a McCain one.

Please show me where I have ever said that there is "no difference between Obama presidency
and a McCain one" . . . ???

What I have said clearly to you is that we need to influence the party and the candidate
to NOT adopt Republican positions -- to NOT support Bush/Cheney.

And, this . . .

What good does your bitching on a message board do to protect your Constitutional rights?

You think you are 'controlling' the party by dissing the candidate?

is too inaneto even comment upon.



THE REALITY is that we have 2 choices for president. Obama or McCain. I have absolutely no problem making the choice for Obama, EVEN if he and I do not see eye to eye on more than the FISA vote.
I'm not afraid- I'm disapointed in the way SOME people with personal agendas are hiding behind this FISA vote-

Again, presumably you're limited to understanding only what happens here at DU . . .
however, if you open your door, your eyes, your ears, you will see that criticism of
Obama on the FISA issue is widespread among liberals/progressives.

Many blogs/articles have been printed here, in fact, which should have informed you.

[Bluerthanblue]

161. I'm clearly not

getting you.

I'm not posting on any board other than DU- I read my local paper- speak with friends, neighbors and family, pay attention to the news from many sources, mostly online ones- (no cable tv).

You seem to be addressing something/one other than me- My eyes, ears, door, and mind ARE open- and I'm really only hearing veiled outrage right here. Very few 'average americans' put much effort into understanding what FISA is- or even know that a vote took place, and what the results were.

I suggest you widen your own lens, and you'll see the sad truth to what I've just said. What the average American DOES see, and take note of though, is the continual bickering among this party- it's not productive OR constructive. There is plenty of room for HONEST discussion and disagreement- I'm not addressing that- I'm talking about people who are playing opportunist- Those who have not been happy that Obama is our nominee, and who are using any means possible to sabotage him, including manipulating discussion about valid issues.

If you aren't doing that- then nothing Ive said really concerns you.

good luck

peace~

[defendandprotect]

210. A lot of words . .

but you're repeating the same obsessed nonsense over and again.

Did you not see the HUFFINGTON post on Obama's move to the right --

Did you not see other articles by other bloggers here at DU on Obama's move to the right?

No one mentioned to you that the TV's were constantly commenting on Obama's move to the right?

You saw no articles here at DU about any of this --- ???

You didn't bother to go to Democracy.Com to look at what they're saying?

You're either in a coma or deep denial.

You only heard "veiled outrage" at DU????

Really, and that required the posting of endless suggestions that Obama was being "smeared" --
"bashed" . . . ???

And you seem to be suggesting, or hoping, that few Americans understand or know what Obama did?
Is that you're defense on this issue? What's the difference...no one knows about it, anyway?

What the average American DOES see, and take note of though, is the continual bickering among this party-

Again -- criticism isn't "bickering" and let me say that among those discussing these issues
we see intelligent analysis. What I'm seeing from you is something other than that.


and here . ..

I'm talking about people who are playing opportunist- Those who have not been happy that Obama is our nominee, and who are using any means possible to sabotage him, including manipulating discussion about valid issues.

And you have a crystal ball which tells you all this?

I think you've moved now from simple obsession to paranoia --

[Bluerthanblue]

287. hey- you have me pegged-

I'm just an ignorant, paranoid obsessed fool.

Problem solved, you can move on now.


:shrug:

peace~

[defendandprotect]

290. Rather, the WINK WINK and the "they don't know about it anyway" ...

suggests that we just haven't understood politics and the way the game is played.

Isn't that what we've been being told for two weeks by those who want no criticism?

And the really knowing observation about the strategy ---

"Americans don't know about it anyway, so what's the difference?"


Meanwhile, the "fear based" drive for shutting up any criticism goes on and on.

[Bluerthanblue]

294. I'm not looking to shut you or anyone else up-

Please show me where I have ever told anyone to shut up.

I have every right to criticize what people say, just as you do-

If the criticism bothers you, ask youSELF why.

If my criticism is directed at you personally, then you can pretty much figure I don't have much else to offer.

Yes, I do disagree with the FISA vote- I also disagree with Obama's position on the death penalty- particularly in reference to child rape. I also take issue to the recent SC decision on the gun ban which Obama spoke out in favor of. I can disagree with Obama on all these issues (and there are more) and still believe he is the best candidate for president, and that he is going to be a very good president.

What do you hope to accomplish with your 'criticism'? You talk about a "fear based" desire for no "criticism" yet your criticism is all about 'fear'- Fear of the government- fear of what we are headed towards.

I'm not claiming to be any expert on what Democratic 'blogs'- websites- pundits-talking heads are saying and thinking. I will openly admit I'm not someone who frequents the places you do- Your view is different than mine, neither one is "wrong".

If you want to discuss FISA- go at it. I've not come into a FISA discussion thread and told you to shut up- talked about your lack of knowledge, or questioned your sanity. Would it be all that outrageous of me to ask that you offer me the same courtesy?

Honestly?

thanks

peace~

[defendandprotect]

311. It would be disingenuous for any of the crowd who have been pushing

these threads for more than two weeks now -- for any of you to try to suggest that your
goal isn't to censor -- i.e., to get criticizers to "shut up."

Not only that, you want action to stop this criticism.
There are constant appeals to the "rules" to try to get criticism to stop.
Are you denying this?

You're not criticizing me - nor what I actually say.
You're criticizing the criticizing ... which is the point!
Often the "crowd" here is calling this criticism "bashing" or "smearing."
And, please, don't try to say this isn't true.


Why does your effort to censor free speech here bother me --- ?
It bothers me in the same way that any attempts at censoring free speech bothers me.
It's a universal issue.

And here you make clear that you feel the same way we all do about the move to the right
by Obama on these issues . . .

Yes, I do disagree with the FISA vote- I also disagree with Obama's position on the death penalty- particularly in reference to child rape. I also take issue to the recent SC decision on the gun ban which Obama spoke out in favor of. I can disagree with Obama on all these issues (and there are more) and still believe he is the best candidate for president, and that he is going to be a very good president.

Only difference is many of us are making our dissatisfaction clear --- and our need to gain
control over the party and the candidate clear. Most of us are making clear that we don't
want the party moved to the right and that we are looking for leverage over the party and
the candidate to prevent any further move to the right.

No one making these criticisms is interested in anything but defeating the RIGHT.

We'll take this around just one more time . . .

What do you hope to accomplish with your 'criticism'? You talk about a "fear based" desire for no "criticism" yet your criticism is all about 'fear'- Fear of the government- fear of what we are headed towards.

What we hope to accomplish is to prevent the party and the candidate from moving any further to
the right. Why isn't that clear to you?

And you have no "fear" of government. Is that what you're saying?
That we can simply go forward as a nation without any guaranteed freedoms, no Constitutional
rights, no Bill of Rights? Have you not noticed they have essentially been "disappeared" -???

Your "fear" is that telling the truth about our party and our candidate adopting right-wing
positions will harm the candidate. While we suggest that adopting these right-wing positions
will keep new voters from coming out and keep new young voters from sticking with us --
in addition to the overall harm it does to our nation, its citizens and the Constitution.

Let me suggest that in future if you want to criticize deal with the issue ---
not the criticism itself.

Re this . . .
I'm not claiming to be any expert on what Democratic 'blogs'- websites- pundits-talking heads are saying and thinking. I will openly admit I'm not someone who frequents the places you do- Your view is different than mine, neither one is "wrong".

You don't have to read anything anywhere but here at DU . . .
some of the blogs were posted here ---
obviously you either avoided or ignored them.

Here's Kathryn Kolbert from People For the American Way ---

But I've been thinking more about a different set of questions. What should we expect -- or demand -- from progressive candidates in an election year? How can we most effectively advance our principles and mobilize our supporters to make a difference in these important public debates?

I think the answers are clear, at least in the big picture. Our role is to stake out our principles, push public officials to do the right thing, and work to hold them accountable for their actions. We don't always win, and political wrangling sometimes blurs the lines, but I'll always try to keep us focused on advancing the American Way and protecting the civil rights and liberties we hold dear.

This week, we were sorely disappointed that so many Democratic senators supported the White House-backed intelligence bill, which gave immunity to telecommunications companies who assisted the administration's illegal wiretapping and which left the door open to further abuse. We, our activists, and our allies pushed hard until the very end, and when many of the people we should have been able to count on voted the wrong way, we said so. Next year we will be pushing for a fix from the new Congress and President -- one more reminder that People For the American Way's work will be important no matter who gets elected.

A few days earlier, Sen. Obama proposed a set of changes to President Bush's Office of Faith Based initiatives, which has been a practical and constitutional disaster. We took a careful look and commended changes that would strengthen constitutional principles the Bush administration has undermined. But we also drew a clear line against direct funding for houses of worship -- and we'll work before and after the election to make sure that any initiative respects core constitutional principles.

http://www.pfaw.org

I think you understand that there are many democratic organizations which work on these issues.
This is but one of them.

As for this . . .

you want to discuss FISA- go at it. I've not come into a FISA discussion thread and told you to shut up- talked about your lack of knowledge, or questioned your sanity. Would it be all that outrageous of me to ask that you offer me the same courtesy?

We are discussing ALL the issues and especially where there is an attempt to move to the right.
Whether party or candidates. Wherever anyone posts a thread or comment criticising criticism
in itself, I will be posting a reply against it.

How about you also try to concentrate on the issue and simply be honest about your feelings?

Don't be frightened of telling the truth---

[bowens43]

246. the Obama can't be criticized crowd

represents everything that is wrong with our party and with politics in general.

[John Q. Citizen]

280. Yep, these knee jerks are hurting Obama. My guess is some know it, some are oblivious. I wonder

if they looked at the polls today and asked themselves,

"Gosh, I wonder why IBM's numbers are falling after he switched his vote on FISA, highlighted his plan to pump more money into private religions than bush did, and engaged in some saber rattling about Iran? I don't get it."

I guarantee that none of these big mouthed tough talkers would last for 5 minutes volunteering in an Obama campaign office. They would be asked to leave if they behaved like this. The campaign has no use for sabotage and agent provocateurs.

None of these "Intimidators for Obama" could get a job in the campaign.

[Bluerthanblue]

289. This is your idea of constructive criticism? Perhaps

you may want to take a good long look at yourself before you go condemning other people.

And if you want to know how the Obama Campaign receives people who are willing to work for a positive future- I hope you'll head down to your local office and find out for yourself.

There are many great people there, who are happy to find ways to put your skills to work for the good of everyone.


peace~

[John Q. Citizen]

301. My office doesn't tell peope to stay out unless they pass some jackasses' test of

loyalty.

Does your office?

[defendandprotect]

291. dupe

[Bluerthanblue]

288. oh yeah. Put people in little categories, label them

and point to them as the cause of all that ails us.

That's constructive criticism for you- It is so helpful to "our party and politics in general".


:sarcasm:

Thanks for illustrating my point perfectly.

peace~

[MadHound]

61. Who died and made you admin?

You have no special claim to this forum or any other. You have no say as to who can post here or not. So please, stop telling others what they can and cannot do around here.

[file83]

189. No discussion for YOU!! (The discussion-nazi has spoken!)

All joking aside, your point is spot on. I love it when people come in here demanding that no criticism of the candidate will be tolerated, and they aren't even the forum admin. What a joke.

Ironic too, for how much did we all criticize the Republicans from 2001-2006 for being in such lock-step with their leaders/candidates and not QUESTIONING them even in the slightest?

Those same anti-lock-step people are now criticizing us for NOT being in lock-step. Crazy! :crazy:

[Eurobabe]

254. No you have to obey or you are a TOOL

:eyes: Fuck that.

[JohnnyLib2]

77. Isn't there a DU mechanism for requesting new forums?

It seems to me that the OP and many responders indeed do want an Obama Support (only) opportunity. Can't that be made overtly available?

[Catherina]

93. I'd support your suggestion in a heartbeat n/t

[JohnnyLib2]

110. I put it on a later thread by JenniferZ, too.

[AZBlue]

118. You can alert on the disruptors.

Both OPs and within threads.

[defendandprotect]

147. No . .. no . . . what they want is a forum totally FREE from criticism of Obama . ..

[grantcart]

84. This the GE season and only one thing matters now

[Zenlitened]

86. Yougottabefreakinkiddinme

You were one of the premier shit-spewers of the primary season.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4733968&mesg_id=4735626

And now you're shrieking about Democratic purity, lecturing people on what is and is not appropriate to post? Gimme a break.

You yourself have played a leading role in creating the horrible climate on DU.

Do the board -- and the campaign -- a favor and just get lost, permanently. "Supporters" like you are Sen. Obama's worst enemies.

[KittyWampus]

120. I stand by my characterization. Clinton scolding her opponent, a grown man, about a campaign flyer

sent out WEEKS before and saying "SHAME ON YOU" like she was his freaking mother-in-law was a freaking absurd attempt at manipulating the media and a disaster as a media event.

And that was the Primary. At the point where Hillary had already lost but refused to concede and also where the Media was doing its best to undermine Obama who was ALREADY essentially the presumptive nominee.

[Zenlitened]

300. To repeat: You yourself played a leading role in creating the horrible climate on DU.

That's a fact.

All the filth and poison flung at Democrats for more than half a year of primaries set the tone. You yourself were part of that: the contingent of rabidly aggressive, relentless uber-partisans who transformed DU into one of the internet's premier destinations for sliming and smearing Democrats.

The tone was set and, regretfully, it hasn't changed all that dramatically in the few short weeks since Sen. Obama secured the nomination. Witness your own post: at once domineering and dismissive, self-aggrandizing and self-defeating.

I'd love to see the Griefers, True Believers and Other Useful Idiots just come to their senses for a couple of months. But momentum seems to be on their side. Thanks in no small measure to your months and months of "hard work" here on DU.

Heckuva job.

[question everything]

89. Who elected you to determine who should and should not be on this forum?

Come back when you are in your 40s or 50s, when you are trying to keep your family together with three jobs, when you are caring for a sick family member or, yes, when you use your spare time at a soup kitchen helping the sick and the homeless.

How dare you determine who should and who should not visit this forum!

How dare so many DUers recommend this post. Young and healthy and spoiled arrogant SOBs.

[JohnnyLib2]

90. Unless the forum is misnamed.

Some clarification is needed, ya know?

[Breeze54]

99. ....

Right on!

[beachmom]

100. Absolutely. There clearly are some who do not support Obama, and

have never spoke a kind word about him, yet they post on GDP constant negativity. They should stay out of GDP, because they are not on board with our nominee.

[muryan]

108. This forum has no use at the moment

Its not doing anything to help our candidate, or to hurt the GOP's. If anything its doing the reverse of both of those, and its pretty pathetic.

[Name removed]

113. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[truthisfreedom]

109. Hear, hear!

[berni_mccoy]

112. I Have Something For THOSE OBAMA ATTACKERS Who Wrap Themselves Up With Constitution

[nadinbrzezinski]

150. That's nice, but in case you wonder it truly violates the flag code

[Joe Fields]

224. there's that darn, pesky constitution thingy again.

[last_texas_dem]

115. Since we're making suggestions for what other DUers should do with their time

My suggestion is that those racking up hundreds or thousands of posts on this message board this campaign season that are soooo devoted to electing Obama as President should maybe consider a more effective way to help him out than policing the posts made by posters on a liberal message board.

My anti-Obama posts are few and far between, and the bulk of them are directed at some of his truly overzealous supporters and not at about him or anything he did at all. I'd argue there are just as many, perhaps more, "drama queens" within the self-righteous "speak no ill of Obama" contingent as there are in the "I actually don't think Obama is the Messiah" contingent.

[AZBlue]

116. AMEN!

[GihrenZabi]

121. *Looks for police badge on OP's chest* N/T

[Joe Fields]

225. Badges? They don't need no stinking badges...

They've got the gleam of Obama's halo in their eyes.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

125. thanks. why dont you write a letter to the admins to this effect?

unless you somehow bought and paid for this forum.

[BurtWorm]

129. Can I see your badge please?

:wtf:

[redqueen]

134. Heh... I wish.

[OmahaBlueDog]

135. Get over yourself

Many here are giving time and money to Obama. Others are dedicating their time any money to other important Senate and Congressional candidates, and state issues, like the California same-sex marriage. Yet others are working multiple jobs and trying to pay for groceries... and yes, some others in our ranks are still pissed off that (Hillary/Edwards/Biden/FITB) didn't get nominated.

If you want to do some good, why don't you go on down the internet to Democrats.com, and ask Bob Fertik about his whole "escrow" strategy?

[Gman]

137. GD: Primaries should have been smothered at birth,

the body burned beyond all recognition and the ashes buried in remote areas of 17 different states to avoid any possibility of it ever coming back to life again.

It's still not to late for GD: Presidential

[Catherine Vincent]

138. What the hell is up with you people?

[BlueJazz]

139. I'm proud to support the Man and am working physically and whatever I have to ....

..do to get Him elected.

We choose our Friends in spite of their Faults....and Obama has Very Few. :)

[desktop]

142. Where's your Badge?

Obviously you're the forum police. Sorry officer. Do we all get Obama uniforms and maybe little red books that we can quote from to the opponents?

[Politicub]

143. It's sad, but I agree with you

Why even bother posting if one isn't working to get Obama elected? People forget or don't care that this is a zero sum game. There is no "do over." We get one chance at this every four years.

All of the complaining, whining and griping is unproductive and should be taken elsewhere. It does nothing to further a democrat in the whitehouse.

[martymar64]

144. You're not Skinner

So you have ZERO say over who can post here. I'm voting for Obama and that's good enough in my book
I don't donate to politicians as a rule, they have a lot more money than I do and I will put my money to much better use, like keeping a roof over my head and keeping myself fed. Your insinuations are in the vein of "with us or against us". I would suspect that you are an undercover rethug trying to making Dems look like raving assholes.

So shut your fucking yapper with the commisar bullshit, Rush.

[Catherine Vincent]

148. Great response!

:thumbsup:

[KittyWampus]

181. talk about a raving asshole.

[Joe Fields]

226. If I ever meet you in real life, I must buy you several beers.

:toast: :thumbsup:

[Grinchie]

151. I worked hard, and then Obama decided to cave on FISA

I like Obama, and what he stands for, but when he makes such a destructive move to "Reach Across the Aisle" and "Not Waste Time" of Telecomm Immunity, then I start to see him as just another Politician.

Already, there have been major changes in Obama's campaign since he "Absorbed" Hillary's team, and the thought that Hillary maybe still considered choice for Veep scares the hell out of me.

If that happens, the the election cycle will be over for me, as there is no way I can vote for anything that gives the Clintons any reason so set foot back into the administration.

Obama means for me a house cleaning of the DLC and the last 16 years of ongoing destruction to our way of life.

When Obama refuses to stand up for the Constitution on the FISA Bill, that's a good way to say, I don't need any more donations, I'm in the zone.

I will watch and wait and see, but FISA is a big disappointment to me.

[John Q. Citizen]

157. Ha ha, you are so powertripped out. You think posting is working hard.

[ileus]

159. go dodgers.

[golddigger]

164. It's a cryingfuckingshame I tell ya!

[CTyankee]

166. Well, I support Obama completely. But I think healthy criticism is absolutely

crucial in a democratic society. Maybe we should ask for dissent to be in GE and not GE:P but I want the voices of the dissenters to be heard loud and clear. We need them to effect change in our party, even tho I am one who will go all out for Obama in the general election because I want a Dem to win, no matter what.

OK, I'm still mulling over the GD vs. GD:P thing...I'll listen to what you might have to say...

[Riverman]

167. LEAVE OBAMA ALONE! WHAAAAA, LEAVE HIM ALONE, WHAAAAA

EVERYBODY IS PICKING ON OBAMA, WHY IS EVERYBODY SO MEAN TO OBAMA? OBAMA NEEDS US, LEAVE HIM ALONE!


WHHHAAAAAA, WHHHAAAAAAA, WHHHAAAAA!

Ok now I feel better.

Have a nice day!

[Name removed]

168. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Inspired]

169. Posting on the DU isn't going to help elect Obama anyway.

Good Lord.

[Name removed]

170. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Phx_Dem]

172. Thank you!

:toast:

[Evergreen Emerald]

173. How funny! LOL

I think you have it backwards. If you want to do something to help Obama--get off your ass and get out and DO something other than sit and argue on a board all day.

[Geek_Girl]

174. I plan on voting for Obama but not working hard or at all. Can I stay?

[FunMe]

175. That's what the Democrats in DC want to say us: STFU

Just follow through, "where else would you", and yada, yada, yada.

To get our vote you have to earn it.

No more lesser of 2 evils cuz I don't vote for evil!

[Kermitt Gribble]

177. What a laugh!

I'll bet you even have a loyalty oath all drawn up for everyone to sign.:rofl:

[AllentownJake]

178. To the purity fools

Suck my balls. All of you.

[zulchzulu]

179. Actually the Obama naysayers in this forum HELP me in my Obama efforts

Doing tabling for Obama since 2007, there is a silver lining to reading different people dissing Obama on issues.

I know which issues and complaints are valid and which ones are simply a lack of understanding the full picture. As much as it might appear that some people are just pissed their candidate lost in the Primary season and want to jam on an issue, I would generally bet that they actually mean well in terms of wanting democratic values instilled in this country.

I've talked with many people who will support Obama who have an issue with what are usually corporate media-driven punditry half-truths. I try to engage in discussion about those issues... it's different on the street facing someone looking at you than the anonymous nature places like DU bring.

While some people are seeking the Pure Candidate With No Flaws (there isn't one... ever...), it's a good thing to engage with people if they are willing to listen. I'm not sure DU is the right place to do that for all people.

As for people saying they will vote for Obama but not contribute, that's OK. There is absolutely no shortage of people VERY excited and working hard to be Obama in the White House. No worries from me...

[JohnnyLib2]

190. Sounds like the voice of experience, speaking clearly.

Thanks. :thumbsup:

[natrat]

183. authoritarian thread-i'm just thrilled with our party, go team

ra ra get her done

[RetroLounge]

184. ...

:rofl:

RL

[SaveOurDemocracy]

185. If you say so ...

[Bette Noir]

236. Great image!

And I couldn't agree more with the sentiment.

[populistdriven]

186. For the record I registered 8 new Democrats to vote on the 4th

[DevonRex]

187. Cool. I got 2 today. College kids home for the summer who hadn't

bothered since they couldn't be here for the caucuses.

Great work!!!

[populistdriven]

307. yay! more absentee voters...

good job!

[Snarkoleptic]

191. I got a co-worker on board today.

Spent 15 minutes looking at the real McSame on the internets during lunch break.
He was floored by the 5 jet crashes, trollop-c@nt comments, and plans for the SCOTUS.
What really tipped it in was the Countdown nugget where McSame misrepresented himself and his record to a 'Nam Vet in the audience.

[salguine]

193. Maybe you should have posters sign a loyalty oath.

[Torn_Scorned_Ignored]

194. ` ~

:scared:

[Tarc]

198. I believe I'll do whatever I damn well please, thankyouverymuch

Contrary to popular belief, Barack Obama is not the only Democrat running for election this year. I plan to work to get my state's Republican senator kicked to the curb, and that is as far as the support will go. Not every "down ticket" Democratic contender wants to be too closely associated with the nominee; there are moderate to conservative elements of this party who are running campaigns that do not jibe completely with the liberal campaign of Obama. That little fact might gall some around here, but not all democrats are completely liberal.

If that rubs the likes of you the wrong way, then so be it.

[graywarrior]

201. You can't mean,,,,,,,,Drama Queen? Not here.

[trickyguy]

203. Never railed against Obama. Always supported him. But

getting worn out with the nit-picking that is going on about him.

I'm working to make him the next POTUS. What about you?:evilfrown:

[TankLV]

204. Ahhh - lecturingand scolding us works - NOT!

GET FUCKING LOST...

I'm free to do as I choose - he's FAR from a good selection - better than any repuke - but that's not saying much - and he's no saint, either...

No, I may or may not vote for the idiot, but I refuse to work hard or minimal for him either...

fuck off...

[HughMoran]

208. Hear! Hear!

I'm sick of the drama queens too...

[Political Tiger]

211. Truth!

My goal is to get Obama elected. Period!

[Historic NY]

212. its a lot of work daily to slam McSame w/o people realizing i'm doing it.

I want Barry Obama to win.

[Jakes Progress]

213. Don't think kicking people out is a good

way to behave or to get votes. Also don't think you get to say. Not your forum. You can always start one if you like.

But I'm with you on getting Obama elected. I hope you will join those of us who really want him elected. First we can all agree that he really crapped out on the FISA vote. We need to tell him to stop doing that kind of thing. If he's going to be elected, it will be because he is different than the guys that everybody dislikes. I know some nutjobs have been telling him how to win an election in 1964, but this is 2008. The country doesn't want more of the same. The country doesn't want back room sweetheart deals for powerful politicians and rich corporations. They want Obama 1.0, the original. That is who got people fired up and showing up. We will never get idjit republicans to vote for Obama. They will hold their noses and vote for mccain and if they want to protest they will vote for Barr.

He needs to talk economy and ending war, not guns and terrists. Let's have healthcare. Let's have open government. Let's have jobs back in America. Those are the vote getters. He's gotten lost and, if we truly want him to win, we need to tell him how to find his way back.

Now I think there are a lot of trolls here who would love him to keep on playing right into the rnc's hands with this timidity and hedging. They like giving all that ammunition to mccain. We have to resist those who would tear Obama down by telling him to go right. It won't get him elected. It will cost him votes and support of the undecided. We Democrats will vote for him of course, but any dimwit who is undecided between Obama and mccain is so stupid that they will buy the media spin and terrist talk that will go on in the fall.

So let's rally our energy to get him elected. Send the strongest message you can to let him know his is heading the wrong way.

[Tresalisa]

214. Coming out of lurk mode to kick this excellent post! (eom)

[skooooo]

216. .

[digidigido]

215. A REAL DEMOCRAT DOESN"T VOTE FOR FISA

[bjobotts]

235. exactly. Keep your eyes wide open. Look at what personality worship did for Bush

[Name removed]

258. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sufrommich]

260. "He's one of the bad guys"

Does your "homo intuition" tell you that too? I predict a short stay at DU.

[J R]

271. The term "homo intution" was meant as a joke...

What gets me is that you seem ready to scratch my eyes out for simply voicing my opinion and the opinion of many others who feel betrayed by not only the FISA vote but the way Obama turned on MoveOn and the rest of the net roots. Obama had better stop this acting like a Bush clone FAST and start behaving like a truly independently minded leader or he will lose to McCain. Don't blame me, blame OBAMA for taking such foolish steps.

[Major Hogwash]

218. Hahahaha! Good one!

Maybe DU should create a whiner's forum.

[JDPriestly]

219. cryingshame, Nagging will get you nowhere.

Your time would be better spent writing a post on why you are voting for Obama in spite of his change of stance on FISA. What things has Obama done or said that can make us confident that, in spite of his vote on the FISA Amendment, he will enforce the Constitution and defend our rights.

[RufusTFirefly]

220. As Paul Krugman wrote in "Played for a Sucker"...

"what Washington means by bipartisanship is mainly that everyone should come together to give conservatives what they want."

Played for a Sucker

[indimuse]

227. OMG...

...

[Eyes_wide_ open]

228. All I have to say is

if THIS is how you talk to people that you want to help work and support our candidate, people you are afraid are not going to vote for him then I don't see how YOU convince anyone.

Since I have a vested interest in getting the man elected I'm not interested in advice from someone who seems much more concerned with driving people away than doing anything constructive, and you can stuff your demands in your pipe and smoke them.

I've only been here a short while, posted a few comments here and there and I know that your comments are not directed at me, however you are demanding that everyone kowtow to your supreme authority in this forum and I will not. I read the rules and have no problem with them, there is absolutely nothing in them that says anything about "working hard" at whatever YOUR definition of that is. If you have a problem with that why don't you tombstone me? Oh you can't? Must not be your job then hmm?

Yes, I've seen some of the troll posts and understand they can be frustrating. But you know, there are rules for that and if you have a problem you can alert on them. I've read a lot around here and notice "they" get tombstoned every day. I see even more sactimoneous, self righteous forum police shouting down every word that is typed that doesn't sound like cult propaganda and posting dozens of threads just like this one. Take a look around, between you and them 75% of the OP's in this forum are nothing but snark.

One other thing you might like to think about, many people besides the ones just here to make trouble stumble over some of the very same points they bring up. People out there in the streets that haven't made up their minds who to vote for. If you can't answer those points here, how do you do it there?

It's a good thing Barack Obama isn't as afraid of criticism as you are. If he were, he wouldn't have won my respect and I wouldn't be here. You see, I'm not a Democrat ... and from what I've seen here I don't want to be. I do however want to see him win and came here looking for ways to help him do that among the independents he needs to win. That's where I live, that's MY reality.

Help would be really nice ... anybody have time for useful OP's?

[Divine Discontent]

237. you have merit to your argument

although I could see the counter-argument that the no-complaint forum for him would be in the Obama forum itself and this is a forum about presidential election discussion of any kind. But I support the argument that these naysayers need to realize Obama seems to be THOMPING McSame, and his winning in places like Colorado and, unlikely, but possible, Arizona - are reasons they should be a little more supportive - because right now - it's Obama or McCain - so if he (Obama) fails us then they can start the rallying cry for his failures, so unless that happens, I think the most vitriol should tone it down.

GOBAMA!


www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable

[CreekDog]

238. I'm a bit late to this here movie, but I've got a good grasp of the plot

:popcorn:

[Bobbie Jo]

239. K&R Nuff Said!

:kick:

[timzi]

240. Who elected you the forum "hall monitor"?????

You may not understand the democracy thing very well. Very simply, we all get to think and say what we want to, and don't need self-appointed "leaders" telling us what to say or think. That's what Fox News and their kind do. Understand? Let me put it another way. Opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one but it don't make you special.

[shayes51]

241. Reminds me of when I was a kid:

"This is MY property. Get off MY property!"

[quickesst]

242. Going off....

the deep end with panic-laden threads over a little criticism of Obama is the weak link. If any repugs are reading DU, they're probably delighting in the "chicken with it's head cut off" flailing going on. This mass freakout because people are just discovering that the Obama created by naive idealists in the primary is not the Obama we see in the GE is just lame. Still, he would have to have a major meltdown to lose this election, and bitchin', pissin. moaning, and crying over disappointment that he, like all politicians, are subject to criticism is not "helping" him, and if the "new" DU that stifles all commentary not favorable to a person or agenda comes about, I doubt there will be a need for tombstoning dissenters, and critics. Thanks.
quickesst

[Name removed]

252. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sufrommich]

253. Electing McCain would be better? I'm not defending this OP,

I think it's a silly attempt to bully. But your comment may top it in terms of silliness. Seriously,how will electing him be "a bad thing" compared to McCain?

[J R]

261. I'm sorry that you lack any serious foresight...

...but I refuse to be drawn down into this "us-against-them" mentality. Tell me that the Dems in charge are acting in accordance to the wishes of their constituents and I'll show everyone here a fool. I agree, who wants McCain, but I don't like being backed into a corner and forced to vote for someone because they're not as bad as the alternative. I feel that Obama is using that fact to get away with some crazy sh*t, and I resent him for throwing the net roots movement under the bus time after time. I've always considered myself a Democrat, but lately this party has started looking more and more like the Republican Party. Don't be angry with me, I'm just presenting another opinion.

[sufrommich]

263. So,who do you plan on voting for?

And what kind of "crazy shit" are we in for if Obama gets elected

Your post is filled with every cliche a freeper would think would fly under the radar here.

[J R]

266. I never understood the term "freeper"

And go ahead, attack a fellow progressive (me) just because he doesn't agree with you 100%. As for crazy shit, we've seen a taste so far with the FISA vote. And when I use the term "crazy sh*t" I guess I could use the term "betrayal" more exactly... I think that I've just arrived at the point of being sick of Obama well before you have because I see certain patterns in his behavior that worry me very much. I know, I know, the alternative is terrifying, I'm just saying that we need to hold Obama's feet to the fire and not let him pull a Bush 2.0. I can't help but worry about that.

[Name removed]

306. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cherchez la Femme]

309. Please explain

your contentions on 'freeper cliches'.

What J R said was:

...but I refuse to be drawn down into this "us-against-them" mentality.

Common and reasonable response. Additionally, Repukes do that by rote.

Tell me that the Dems in charge are acting in accordance to the wishes of their constituents and I'll show everyone here a fool.

True. Dems are NOT representing the wishes of their constituents. They failed us when the majority kicked out many Repubs and installed Democrats to reverse the craziness. The Dem politicians have not, at all; what they have done is support the same old Repuke stances or complained that they 'can't get anything done because of the Republicans'; although the Repukes did perfectly fine holding the Dems down with about the same numbers.
How could a Republican say that? They WANT to disparage Democratic politicians and belittle their constituents as what they portray they are: bleeding heart goose-steppers behind "Lefty" politicians.

I agree, who wants McCain, but I don't like being backed into a corner and forced to vote for someone because they're not as bad as the alternative.

True. WHY would a Repuke say that? see above

I feel that Obama is using that fact to get away with some crazy sh*t, and I resent him for throwing the net roots movement under the bus time after time.

True. Witness FISA; INCREASING aid to Bushs pet religious GOVERNMENT project: Religious Charities; his statement on a "Womans Choice" - Abortion, where she should consult with her family AND her minister (HER choice?!); and there are many more. So WHY would Republicans paint Obama as more centrist than Left?

I've always considered myself a Democrat, but lately this party has started looking more and more like the Republican Party.

Don't know about the first part, I'll her/him at their word; otherwise the rest on the statement is
True. Alarmingly true. 'Centrist' Democrats look much like Republicans (Hiya, Bob Casey!) and this shift of perception to what they think our 'center' is, is false.
And 'pukes would freak if they thought Democrats were anything like them -- they're so right a perfect and MORAL, ya know.


Show me where freepers have said any such things, otherwise you owe J R an apology for such slander.



I'm voting for Obama, absolutely; but I tell you this will be my absolute LAST vote because any certain candidate is the lesser of two evils (not saaying he's 'evil' -- I'm saying he's anything but Left, and he's swinging more to the right seemingly every day). If, after these next elections the Democratic Party doesn't get its act together and start ACTING like Democrats, including supporting principles which Democrats have stood for all these years then this life-long Dem will quit the party. It will break my heart, but I cannot much longer abrogate my morals and principals to a party that no longer represents its historical platform and it's constituents.

[mdmc]

259. what should one do

if they donate and work locally for the dem-candidates, donate and work for Obama is a swing state, and yet feel they need to vent about the selling out of core beliefs?

Should they simply write emails to themselves, do nothing (swallow you anger into the pit of your stomach), or vent here?

I used to vent here. It charged my batteries after working to GOTV. The venting sometimes helped my real life GOTV sales pitch.

[demodonkey]

264. How about working for election integrity?!?! Dems have their head in the sand and could lose...

...because of bad machines, hacked machines, disenfranhised voters, and a whole raft of things that the Democratic Party doesn't seem to want to hear about.

Mark my words -- work for Dem candidates without working for election integrity and election protection and ya' got 2000 and 2004 deja vu.

Support (with work and help) and donate (some $$) to the election integrity organization of your choice while you are supporting the Dem campaigns. If you donate $100 and 10 hours to a campaign, please also donate at least $10 and one hour to those who are working on a shoestring to protect the election and the vote.

[GihrenZabi]

265. Something else I thought of last night...

By posting on this website, you are not "helping to elect Obama."

The influence of this website on any election is dubious at best, most likely nonexistent. Any campaign contribution of less than several million dollars garnered by its members is a drop in the bucket to a Washington where anything less than a billion dollars is chump change.

So, the OP really sounds ridiculous taken in this realistic light.


What you ARE doing here on this website is discussing politics with either fellow Democrats or with independents like myself who tend to vote Democratic if they vote for either of the two major parties.

This is a place to discuss politics - that is its purpose and value.

If discussing politics, which is going to involve criticism of candidates and not just blind faith and obedience (at least among those who are particularly politically-savvy and/or who have strong ideologies), leaves a bad taste in one's mouth then rather than questioning the motives of people who do so by telling them what to post and what NOT to post here, perhaps it would be better to question why YOU are here and whether YOU want to be part of this community.

If you just want to cheerlead for Obama, doesn't he have forums on his campaign website? Or don't you have a local campaign office you can go to and spend your real time working to get him elected in that fashion? Take every minute you're on DU and translate it into actual "boots on the ground" work for Obama which is actually meaningful and put your money and time where your mouth is...in which case we won't be hearing about it online.

THEN you will be "working hard to elect Obama." Posting here on DU isn't.

[mix]

274. i wonder

what will you say after Obama's elected...will you still be calling for silence for some other reasons? you do not due justice to our nominee, your politics are juvenile

[johnlucas]

276. Just have to ask you...

Just have to ask you...

If being just a Democrat is all that matters, does integrity therefore not matter?
What have you really won when a Democrat acts like a Republican?

Did this work with Nancy Pelosi and the rest of that Democratic Congress with lower approval ratings than Bush himself?

They got her in "just because she was a 'Dem'" & look what you got now.
When does she get to come out of deep cover and enact supposedly stated Democratic ideals?

"No, no she can't do that yet. She won't be RE-ELECTED and therefore won't be able to fight the good fight. This is what must be done to win elections."

That line of 'logic' makes no sense and all of this standards lowering has ended you with a party that can't win on its own merits. Has ended you with a party with no backbone or courage to take a proper stand. Has ended you with a party that is so compromised that elections were close enough to STEAL. TWICE!

Reagan changed the mapboard 28 years ago and Democrats haven't recovered yet. You don't see Republicans hedging, hemming and hawing on their stances. The one thing you have to give them credit for is being able to take a stance no matter how disgusting, stick by it, and see it through.

Democrats are so scared of their own shadow that they act like they can't get elected on the tenets the party as it currently exists stands for. They have put on Republican skin and follow the lead set by that party to woo voters they will never win.

Bush has a freakin' 23% approval rating for God's sake!! Twenty-Three Per Cent!! Still too high in my opinion but it shows how powerless this dude is and how much he has damaged his own party with his BS. It is NOT the time to coddle and pander to that 23%. It's time to capture and secure the 77% who stand against that order.

Obama was supposed to do a Reagan in reverse - taking a stand, sticking by it, and bringing the majority over to him. He needed to do that with common sense, realistic speaking, and straight honesty. No matter what political bent you subscribe to EVERYBODY in America agrees on the Bill of Rights. EVERYBODY recognizes the authority of the Constitution and respects it. Talking about citizens of course.

He will fail by playing this "CENTER" game. It's stupidity anyhow. Who decided these idiotic labels? There are PEOPLE with VIEWS. All of their views cannot be placed in a neat little box like that. And if you make sense you will win support. He doesn't HAVE to play "center". That's for Yao Ming in the NBA. And left or right are stupid labels as well.
What Obama has to do is MAKE SENSE and BE REAL. That's all.

It took people 8 years to figure it out but they now know a little or a lot that what the Bush Administration brought was disastrous to this country. They feel it when they see those food ans gas prices climb as making a living gets harder and harder. No clichés or catchphrases but like MadTV's Aries Spears's character Dollar Bill Montgomery calls it "Real M*****F***** Talk".

Real MF'n Talk will supercede worries and fears about Obama's ethnicity, rumored religious affiliation, and political identity. People get over all of that Liberal Conservative Democrat Republican 'sheet' when they can't keep food on the table and money in their pockets.

This is not the time to triangulate or put on images. If Obama doesn't realize now that this strategy doesn't work he deserves to lose and the Democrats deserve to fade out to obscurity.

I am NOT a Democrat and trust me I am not, was not, and never WILL BE a Republican. The only party I belong to is the Mario Party. I have no shirt tag political affiliation whether it be Green or Libertarian or Whig. That nonsense is a waste of time. I'm about intelligence (not the Pentagon kind but the real kind), logic/sense, and results.

The only label I'll accept you putting on me is "Progressive" because I'm always about that. Progress. Positive Productive Progress for the People. Like Dr. Pepper to the Coca-Cola family this association got gobbled up into the larger Democrat body but this is the faction which made the Democrats worthwhile since the 1960's. Before the Progressives the Democrats were basically the party of the slaveowners and segregationalists. What an improvement!

Dissension in the ranks is the hallmark of Democracy, dadgum it. Be glad for those voices who don't always follow the crowd. Who don't always follow what the group thinks. Sometimes there's some valuable stuff from those square pegs who just won't fit into those round holes.

Obama owns no one's votes. He has to EARN them like everyone else. If he betrays the principles he supposedly stands for, you have won NOTHING if he succeeds in gaining office.

John Lucas

[Name removed]

305. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[shagsak]

277. Completely Agree

I support Obama and will continue to shout it come november and beyond. I will also flag any comment that I feel attempts to derail our political party. You know who you are.

[J R]

286. Then I dare say you're no better than the Neo-Cons...

You'd think that all Dems would never want to repeat Bush's mistakes, but your attitude smacks of Bush's fascist ideals. "Derail our political party..." PFFT! If you want to blame someone for derailing our party then blame Obama!

[shagsak]

295. LOL

Simple solution. Leave. This is a democratic website and if you don't want to be a democrat then what are you doing here? If you don't want to support the democrats then what are you doing here? Especially in this forum which is SUPPOSED to be about debate and discussion of the upcoming election. When you bash our party that makes you anti-democrat. You can dismiss my words all you want but the fact is obvious to everyone that we don't have your support. And that is fine. As an American, you can choose your party affiliation, and you can choose to vote however you want in the general depending on your vote in the primary and the state in which you voted.

I will continue to use this analogy: If you want to play on our team it is a requirement that you want us to win. Otherwise you are not on our team.

BTW, saying I have a fascist attitude sounds like something Hannity would say. You have some red showing...lol.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

278. I tell you what ---

This is the Democratic Underground last I looked NOT the Obama Underground.:eyes:

[JackORoses]

303. Obama is the Democratic Nominee

This forum is for support of the Democratic Nominee.

So until November, this is the Obama Underground. Get used to it.

[LynneSin]

279. FISA is very important and should be debated - but in General Discussion

Because FISA is a failure of the Democratic party and something we should continue to fight long after this election is overwith. But our job will be just a little bit easier if we can do that with Barack Obama in the White House.

No matter who we vote for either Obama or McCain will be in the White House in 2009 - which one would you prefer being there.

Great post - highly recommended.

[Name removed]

281. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sourmilk]

283. Wow. Just wow.

And I don't mean that I am impressed...

DISSENT WILL NOT BE TOLERATED!
RESISTANCE IS FUTILE!
YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED!

[JackORoses]

304. Exactly. If you don't support the Democratic Nominee, kindly hit the road.

[cyclezealot]

284. He has our vote. That is enough

How hard we work depends upon his own rhetoric. So its up to him. He double crosses upon his promises, and expect us to work too. Its his call. If we don't like his rhetoric there are plenty of other good Democrats to work for.

[Tarc]

313. Exactly

He gets a reluctant vote from me, only because McCain is the proverbial same as the old boss.

[cyclezealot]

314. From the get go, Obama's rhetoric has not won us over

We are issue people. By not listening too intently to him , he will continue to get our votes

[Ian David]

292. Obama Says His Critics Haven’t Been Listening (‘I am someone who is no doubt progressive’)

Obama Says His Critics Haven’t Been Listening (‘I am someone who is no doubt progressive’)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3390982&mesg_id=3390982

[peacetalksforall]

302. My leader now is an organization. I read endlessly searching for the post that

will convince me that what Democrats did on FISA was good.

I will help the ACLU. I will stop expressing my anger at Obama at some point when someone convinces me that his strategy to head to and past the center right is right. There is a point where a person can't hold up their head when they give up on our most precious possessions - Constitution, B of Rights, HB, fair judges, a supreme Supreme Court.

Leaders are there for me to honor for representing me. No leader is representing me as I am not in the States of heros such as Feingold, Sanders, Kucinich.

Therefore, I will support and give some money to the ACLU who I hope can override the messages sent to all the Republican voters by the support of Obama and the others as well as any legalities they can win.

It is impossible to give to people who prop up Cheney and Bush and their damningly wrong war against the citizens of this country and way too many countries around the world.

I will come up with some more money for DU who is allowing those of us who are devastated to post here.

I am a Democrat in limbo.

[jody]

312. IMO there is a difference between working to get Obama elected and worshiping Obama. n/t