Hate-Every sunday Till November.

[kitfalbo]

I've yet to see the Sunday news/talk cycle. But From seeing the hints I know it will be an all out attack on Obama without showing his very eloquent description of why he chose not to accept public funding. There will be almost no mention or at least very small mention of McCain and his Offshore oil drilling and perhaps more important his plan for close to 50 more Nuclear reactors.

Ask the American people what they care more about? Financing or Oil drilling along the coast/Nuclear power plants. I'm sure you'll get the latter having a larger response every time.

But Most of today will be focused on Obama (in a bad way), despite the more "missteps" by McCain. Maybe they don't want to focus on McCain because he did do so much more.

This cycle will Continue every Week. The Week the FISA bill passes Obama is screwed. They will either A: Attack him if he supports it because he's allowing people to spy on them. (ignoring McCain completely)
B: Assuming Obama tries to stop the bill or change it, if and in the most likely sense he fails at this. They will question his leadership ability and his ability to lead/control the Senate in important matters.
C: If he does Succeed in stripping Immunity. Bush then veto's bill there will be very little talk about how his efforts caused America's defense to weaken but it will still be there.

All of this barring a different Non-Issue Issue created by the MSM about Obama that they don't instead decide to run. Damned if you Do. Damned if you Try. Damned if you Succeed. I hate the Schillery of the MSM who for the most part don't use their own brain. Or they are taking the fact they make more than 2.5 million to heart because Obama will tax their asses in a way that breaks their delusion that they cling to the fact that they represent the middle class.

[Evergreen Emerald]

1. Here is the problem I have with this stance: and it is the same problem Feingold has

It has been a democratic issue. We have fought hard to get big money out of the campaign and to allow an even playing field where big money is not buying the candidate.

He has been a supporter of that concept, and indeed highlighted bills he helped to pass in that regard as part of his experience.

The ideals and values that are involved in keeping big money out of elections is still valid: to avoid corruption, to avoid big money from choosing the President, to keep someone from influencing the candidate (and buying off the Presidency).

Obama says: I know all that stuff, but...you can trust me to keep those values even tho I am not going to use those generally accepted guidelines. "Trust me."

I don't like that. And as Feingold said: the finance reform laws were not broken before Obama broke them by doing this.

And, as the stats show: 55% of Obama's money is Big Money, not individual citizens.

So, I know it is popular to keep saying, "we trust him so he can do anything." I believe that he should be...

not supporting the fisa bill
not breaking finance reform.

Actions speak louder than words.

[Warren Stupidity]

2. Please stop lying against our candidate

"And, as the stats show: 55% of Obama's money is Big Money, not individual citizens."

That is a rightwing talking point bullshit smear against Obama.
1) 55% of Obama's individual donors are considered 'big donors', they are however individual citizens.
2) the absurd definition used for 'big donor' here is 'gave $200 or more'.

I am a Big Donor. You insult me with your bullshit. Please take it elsewhere.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

3. The vast majority of donors not maxed out.

:think:

[Evergreen Emerald]

5. Please. Stop the personal attacks.

I am not "lying" I got that information today on MTP. If it is wrong--prove it. Don't call me a liar.

Where is that "change" you support?

Regarding the issue: the laws and rules are put into place so that we do not have to depend on the individual. I have a problem with the concept: we don't need to follow the rules, cause you can just trust me to do the right thing." That is what he said about public finance, that is what he said about FISA. (He will monitor it!). That is a stunning suggestion that the President agree to disassemble the constitution and it will be ok cause he is a stand up guy. That is not America.


No: it is not about one person.

[depakid]

6. "I got that information today on MTP."

And you expect folks to believe what's on MTP? Like it's a credible source?

:crazy:

[Evergreen Emerald]

7. Ok...you find me the facts

the FACTS and tell me what the source is and why you think this source is credible compared to MTP.

[Warren Stupidity]

9. I'll be accepting your apology anytime.

http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2008/06/obama-privatizes.html

"Obama's campaign isn't built entirely on small donors--about 55 percent of his total haul so far has come from big donors (those giving more than $200), CRP has found."

Your regurgitated lie is a distortion of a distortion.

Apologize anytime you feel like it.

[nc4bo]

21. Since when did more than $200 become BIG bucks?? :S

:eyes:

Our family tosses our loose change in a sock and in about 4-5 months, there's at least $200(if not more) in a variety of coinage.

the entire "argument" is stupid.

[Warren Stupidity]

23. No shit

And I question the motives of anyone posting this crap here.

[Warren Stupidity]

8. I did prove it. You heard a lie and repeated it.

And, as the stats show: 55% of Obama's money is Big Money, not individual citizens."

That is a lie. The lie is 'Big Money not individual citizens'. The actual report from CPR here:
http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2008/06/obama-privatizes.html
nowhere claims that these $200+ big donors are 'not individual citizens'. You either made that up or are repeating the righting lie you heard on rightwing tv. Either way works for me.

And, the CPR claim is disingenuos. The definition of Big Donor is ridiculous. I am a big donor. You insulted me by claiming I am not an individual citizen.


But more to the point: why are you here smearing our candidate?

[Evergreen Emerald]

10. "Right wing tv"

You were cheering MTP as a non-biased news show. Now, because they say something you disagree with it is "rightwing tv?"

I need a definition of "big donors" versus citizens and what they are giving. But really that is a distration issue because it does not address the bigger issue which is that Obama says: it is now ok not to have finance reform because HE is a stand up guy who will not take big money.

But, the rules are not made for individuals. That is what Bush kept saying as he gutted the Constitution: "don't worry, you can trust me, we don't need the rules."

The issue is NOT "we can trust Obama"
The issue is that the rules are made for everyone--those we can trust and those we cannot.

[Warren Stupidity]

11. I was cheering MTP? Way to try to change the subject.

I have never cheered MTP for any reason. Another lie on your part. Why are you so prone to lying?

"I need a definition of "big donors" versus citizens"

In what respect is a big donor not a citizen? That is simply a lie on your part, as I have now noted three or more times.

As I have now repeatedly noted and linked to the original source: there is no distinction between a big donor ($200*) and an individual citizen. There is a ridiculous distinction between big donors and small donors set arbitrarily at $200. Did you give 200 or more to Clinton? Are you not a citizen? Why do you so casually repeat the smears you hear on rightwing tv?

The issue is that you are smearing Obama. Please stop. Wrong message board for your bullshit.

[Evergreen Emerald]

12. I will tell you what.

When you want to have an adult conversation about the issues rather than attacking and name calling, get back to me--otherwise, I will no longer respond to your divisive, ugly tactics.

Get on board the Obama unity train.

[Warren Stupidity]

14. Keep the Obama smears off this board.

And you and I will have no problems. Otherwise expect your bullshit to be challenged everytime.

[kitfalbo]

13. Heh

There is no rule that says Obama needed to take Public financing. As for Rules The Obama campaign has set some self governing finance rules on themselves. Please show where he has broken the rules that he has already agreed upon?

The rules were not made for everyone.. simply those who chose to go for that method. Why don't you just go after McCain who broke the rules he agreed too several times so far. Or are you afraid to truthfully go after the person you support?

[Evergreen Emerald]

15. there you go again.

Attacking and accusing me of things of which you have no knowledge.

John McCain: there was a time when he was a maverick. Indeed even John Kerry considered him for his VP. He was independent and willing to go against Bush. If he had accepted Kerry's request, he could have stopped the war, and stopped the neo-con agenda that raided our treasury and is in the process of destroying our constitution. But, he chose instead to capitulate to Bush and Co. He sold his soul to Bush and co. And in doing so, he lost me and all of those dems who at one time considered him a maverick.

I would not support McCain if he were the only one running. So, I suggest you stop accusing me of things and stfu regarding things you know nothing about.

[Warren Stupidity]

16. So you don't support McCain but you are working against Obama?

Many of us here fail to see the difference.

[kitfalbo]

17. Walks like one, Talks like one.

Apparently, also asks for links that he ignores when it's posted. Maybe he's a Stephanopoulos democrat, one that says they are one but only goes with the RW/MSM talking points and not what the truth behind the fluff is.

[Evergreen Emerald]

19. I am sorry? What links have I ignored?

I went to the link and could not find any details about the "big donors." I would agree however, that I would not consider a "big donor" a $200 donation.

[Warren Stupidity]

22. Can't read either?

"But the taxpayer-financed system, administered by the Federal Election Commission, and Obama's chosen path diverge in significant ways. Obama's campaign isn't built entirely on small donors--about 55 percent of his total haul so far has come from big donors (those giving more than $200)"
http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2008/06/obama-privatizes.html

Your original bullshit: "Big money not individual donrs". At least you are now accepting that 200 does not a big donor make. How about the entire thing is a canard: a big pile of rightwing bullshit that you heard on rightwing tv and ran straight to DU and regurgitated it at the first opportunity. Did you stop to think? To fact check? It seems not. Instead you went right for the smear. Why? Why are you working against our candidate?

[Evergreen Emerald]

18. That is because you are acting

like a dumb ass. there, perhaps if I stoop to your level you will understand.

To suggest that because I am voicing an opinion that is not in lock step with warren Stupidity, I am "working against Obama" is the epitome of stupidity.

And, I resent your implications.

I can ask Obama to stand for the things that got him the nomination without "working against him."

[Warren Stupidity]

20. You posted an outright lie.

Lockstep? More bullshit from you. You posted a lie. I called you on your lie and you cannot defend it so you have gone all huffy. Admit it: you posted a big ass old time gd:primaries smear against Obama. You screwed up big time.

[crankychatter]

29. McCain broke the law - Obama didn't lie - repeating that MSM BS is a lie

it's not a personal attack

you're simply misrepresenting the facts and mimicing propoganda from the War Profiteer owned MSM

so stop doing it

it's not "constructive criticism"

It's an assault on the integrity of the candidate based upon an outright fabrication from the right wing spin machine

You are screaming "Thou hypocrite."

I invite you to look in the mirror

[Cha]

26. Your "concern" and your "purity" is touching but

it's only about Obama now that your candidate is OUT.

You had no concern or purity about your candidate so your hammering on Obama now rings as hollow as you well know.

You're not fooling anyone with your high and mighty soap box shit.

FAIL.

[Evergreen Emerald]

27. You are wrong...and I find it disgusting

that you are pretending to be democratic when you are deciding who IS and who ISN'T democratic enough for you.

[high density]

4. The hilarious thing is the media playing financing up as if it's something people should care about

The Wurlitzer is playing its tune with McCain writing the sheet music.

[quickesst]

24. No surprise here.....

More than a few were shouting from the rooftops, "Get ready when the MSM turns on Obama, and the soft-pedal, VIP treatment ends." We have once again taken idealism into the trenches of dirty politics without the necessary preparation. They did it to Gore, and they did it with Kerry, but somehow it's not surprising that the Democrats have done it once again. Expecting the bought and paid for whores of the msm to suddenly become bastions of integrity, and defenders of the fourth estate when a presidential election comes around has become routine, and most disheartening is the denial of democrats that these were the same people soft-balling Obama into the nomination. Hopefully, he will rise above his constituents naivety, and prepare himself for the fight he has had no practice for. It was on Gore's shoulders that victory rested. He quit. It was on Kerry's shoulders that victory rested. He quit. Now it is on Obama's shoulders. Hopefully, his willingness to fight will not be depleted until the bloodsuckers have taken every ounce. The reality that was kept in a dark closet is about to break out like a tidal wave, and it's coming with a vengeance. Bank on it. Thanks.
quickesst

(disclaimer: I will vote for Obama, because McShame is unacceptable. Not that it will curtail the hasty opinions, but at least I'm covered.)

[Cha]

25. They can yap away all they want..

but, we're going to win.

[AllentownJake]

28. Yep

Obama appears to be running away with it. Can't have that now. What will it do to ratings if he wins by a landslide.