TPM Post "LIPSTICK ON A PIG" - Most awesome post evah!!!

[Thickasabrick]

This post was really long but it is the most awesome post I have read throughout this whole primary regarding the Clintons.

Here are some highlights:

Faces twisted in rage, insulters shouting down those with a Roberts Rules of Order right to speak, angry threats and snotty comments to reporters...and for those of us on the sidelines, that same sickening feeling as we listen to or watch or read news reports...that feeling of frustration and anger, the urge to shout at the TV or radio, the moody preoccupation with events over which we have no control--and last, but not least, that miserable knowledge that this whole thing is, yet again, not even a real controversy, but a frenzy whipped up for political theater, with the passions of innocent victims used and abused as weapons for the personal gain of those at the top of the heap.

Bill put Hillary in charge of health care, and suddenly, it was all about Hillary more than about health care; all about whether it was a "co-presidency," all about her charming Capitol Hill, and how smart she was, and what a good job she was doing.

But all along, under the surface, massive resentments grew within the Democratic congress because she was acting behind closed doors without any of their input, and when the Big Plan was sprung, she refused compromise of any sort even within her own party, and set the whole debate up as a "with us or against us" showdown, forcing conservative Democrats to vote against it, handing the right-wing their biggest victory, and contributing to a takeover two years into the Clinton administration of Congress by Republicans which led, ultimately, to the debacle of a government we see today.

We've spent seven years in hell since Bush was selected president. That miserable feeling of rage and frustration and the utter depression of feeling we have no control over events that define our lives has continued this entire time.

This political season started as one of unprecedented hope and excitement and energy for the Democratic party, raking in hundreds of millions of dollars, pulling in millions of new voters, energizing the base and bringing in Independents and moderate Republicans. All of our candidates were outstanding.

We could not lose.

Until Hillary started to.

It has always been about what is best for her...read the whole post and try to remember..."really remember".

http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/06/lipstick-on-a-pig.php

[Buzz Clik]

1. "It has always been about what is best for her..." So true.

Do you have a link to the post in question?

[Thickasabrick]

4. I just corrected and added the link - thank you!!

[dkf]

2. Link doesn't show up unless you reply...very odd.

http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/06/lipstick-on-a-pig.php

[qijackie]

3. Bullshit.

[rhett o rick]

28. Thanks for your two cents, it was worth every penny. nm

[bjobotts]

30. I agree...bullshit. Republican framing. "Forced conservative dems to vote against" Ha

[bjobotts]

31. Legally she had no positon so of course it was without dem leaders.

[bjobotts]

32. You get Hill hate going and that's all you set out to do from then on

[bjobotts]

33. My man Obama would tell you you're full of it and quit this shit already

[bjobotts]

34. Hey, here's something else I can hit her with. A matter of perspective only

[bjobotts]

36. Obama supporters vs Hillary haters. It's not what Obama stands for.

[bjobotts]

38. I can't say good things about my candidate only bad things about his opponents

[dana_b]

5. I amthoroughly convinced of this now.

As soon as I heard Harold Ickes say that they reserve the right to bring this to credentials committe, I was convinced. Yes, I know, I'm slow, but I was hoping against hope that she was going to support Obama. I was wrong.

[quantass]

6. ..

[Thickasabrick]

10. LOL.....love it!!! Thanks - the post really needed that!!

[SoCalDem]

25. A picture of Barbara Bush????..the pearls gave it away

:)

[racaulk]

37. Here's a better one!

:rofl:

[AZBlue]

7. Wow - that's a fantastic post!!

Thanks for the link!

[Thickasabrick]

9. You are welcome - I really had forgotten a lot of that stuff. Thanks

for the thanks!! Gobama!!

[dkf]

8. Holy cow. That is like every argument I have made summed up into

a nice cohesive whole.

[WeDidIt]

11. Yep, been there, done that

and really deraded going through it all again during last summer when she was oh so inevitable.

[Yael]

12. I remember all too well -- although I was on the other side of the aisle back then.

Time to end the drama.

Good find -- thanks for posting. It was a good read.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

13. If Hillarycare had passed, Bill wouldn't have produced a "surplus", would he?

ever wondered if maybe it was convenient to have UHC fail?

Besides the fact that the insurance lobbyiest wouldnt allow it,
if it had passed, it would have cost shitloads of money.

[LiberalAndProud]

14. What I remember.

There was some good stuff ... Greenspan was worried about the national debt being paid down too fast ... Remember that? The economy was good and people felt good about life, mostly. We were in the middle of the technology bubble which had not yet burst. Not all of it was bad.

I also remember listening to a Limbaugh caller exhorting Rush and his listeners to "do something to stop NAFTA". And Rush backed Bill up, explaining why he supported NAFTA. That is perhaps my most vivid memory of Bill's time in office beyond "I.did.not ..." and I think I don't have to finish that sentence, particularly if one mentions the ever-present finger shake. As a Democrat, I felt like we were under seige all the time, always on the ready to leap to our President's defense. The good stuff is gone and the scandal is gone, but some of what he did is still with us, and most of that is the not-good stuff.

Bill, McAuliff, Carville, Ickes and Hillary belong to that past. I'd sooner leave it there.

[elfin]

15. Thanks for the link - I usually

only check that site every few days - this post was a GEM!

[enough]

16. OK, but one thing from an Obama supporter who is thoroughly fed up with the Clintons right now.

Whitewater WAS an invention of the right-wing attach machine. We can't get into blaming the Clintons for every attack on them in the past If we do that, we will severely mis-read the environment Barack will face when running and hopefully being President.

[juno jones]

17. I do remember.

The poster definitely brought up many of the warning flags I saw being raised as the age of Clinton wore on. I defended them, because he was better than any R, but I also observed that many of his acts were not the work of a truly progressive candidate.


"We need to remember. REALLY remember."

I remember the 90's. They weren't all rainbows and unicorns for me and my friends and co-workers. Frankly, they weren't all that much different than the 80's, except they played better music on the radio. My friends, mainly working single mothers, were hurt by 'welfare reform'. We are now collectively suffering the delayed effects of media consolidation. The only Hillary supporter I know worked some overpaid customer service job in Silicon Valley during the 90's tech bubble. He thinks he will get his job back if only Hillary would win. He now uses his computer skills to send us the most ugly and vitrolic pro-Clinton e-mails which we promptly delete every time and appeal to him to take us off his list.

Those who saw only rainbows and unicorns were either a) totally deluded by all the 'easy' money, b) too young then to really remember, c) just not paying attention because the big daddy dog 'D' was supposed to be taking care of us.

I do not want the drama back. We need to move on. Progressive values still await.

[Patsy Stone]

18. Magnificent.

"They only wind up looking crazy, and she winds up looking desperate and mean."

[K Gardner]

19. Highly recommended.

[guruoo]

20. "To the victor goes the history books"

[K Gardner]

21. "Hillary has made herself ugly with the nastiness of this campaign" ....

"Her supporters only reflect the bitterness she has enflamed."

Amen.

[cui bono]

22. But they're not bitter.

And they have buttons to prove it.

[Window]

23. WOW! Thanks for posting this.

:kick:

[jonestonesusa]

24. Great editorial - thanks.

The book _Woman in Charge_ by Carl Berstein is a good discussion of the difficulties the Clintons had with fellow Democrats at times during the health care initiative.

Thanks for the post!

[Elidor]

26. Kind of gives short shrift to the Clinton administration

But overall a good post. It's certainly true that we can trace Hillary's ham-fisted, take-no-prisoners approach back to the days of the Clinton health care plan. And I agree that a campaign is a good indicator - not of an entire administration, as the post says, but of the initial stages, certainly.

Hillary is not Bill (amazing insight, I know). And I wonder if even Bill himself as the candidate could have unhorsed Obama this time around. He's changed a lot. Obama is reminding me very much of what happened with a younger Bill Clinton. Only without the bimbo eruptions.

[The River]

27. I Remember

Her failure with health care reform cost me dearly.
His failure to be even a tiny bit discreet cost all
of us 8 years of bushit.

The 90's are over.
So are the Clintons.

[mudesi]

29. Long, but worth the read (nm)

[autorank]

35. Natural born killers!

I remember the co-presidency executing Iraqi civilians via total embargo dnd that lout Albright saying "It was worth it" when Leslie Stahl confronted her on the hundreds of thousands of innocents who died in that embargo. And then there was the daily bombing...for what!

[ann_american2004]

39. oh yes of course

it's all the Clinton's fault. Every possible bad thing that happened was all because of them! They eat our young and disembowel our parents.
Hillary is the antiChrist.
stone them

complete
utter
tripe

pathetic beyond pathetic. I lived through that. The whole right wing smear campaign was despicable and now the same shit is happening here.

pathetic. digusting finger wagging. we are better than this. This is utterly disgusting.

WE ARE BETTER THAN THIS!


Obama '08

[Thickasabrick]

40. I don't think that's what her post was saying....there was just a lot

of baggage that went along with them - not that it's their fault - but it's there. The right wing smear machine was in overdrive at the time - I agree.

Where did you get Hillary is the antiChrist...stone them....?I don't think you read it actually.

[ann_american2004]

43. I did read the article, Whutgives.

I did and for everything the author points back to Clintons. It got to be beyond absurd. ridiculous! I support Obama 100%. I just do not see the need to crucify the Clintons to do it. I lived through Nixon and Reagan and George Sr. All the tricks that were pulled to make Carter look even weaker than he was. The hostages. The other messes. The nuclear standoff -THAT was a scary time. Clintons were a breath of fresh air and for once we werent worried about kill or be killed. The most the Repugs could do to destroy that time was bring out a blue dress. And suddenly that was everything. And now the author is even bringing out the the kitchen sink. Just pile it all on. No offense toward you. It's just how it seems to me. Life is not that simple.

Obama '08

[Cha]

41. The bigger(Big LIES) they are

the harder they fall.

[goren]

42. bttt