Is anyone here *REALLY* going to base their vote

[SallyMander]

(who they vote FOR, or FROM WHOM they withhold it)

on the attitudes of a bunch of random people on the internet?

I keep reading things like "Well, I would have voted for X, but his/her supporters are such RABID NUTJOBS that now I'm going to sit it out/vote for McCain/write in Gore/Edwards/Kucinich/etc."

This boggles my mind. I support everyone's right to vote their conscience -- I just can't fathom basing this decision on the stuff you read here.

It makes as much sense as the following: one of my favorite authors in Salman Rushdie. Now say I found out that George W. Bush also loves Rushdie (hypothetically, people -- we all know he can't read). Do I stomp my foot and proclaim that I will never read Rushdie again? Why should I allow my opinion to be swayed and my actions to be changed because someone I don't respect has expressed their opinion?

Perhaps the analogy is a bit of a stretch, but the question is a serious one. This is your VOTE. You only get one. Make sure you are basing it on something thoughtful and well-reasoned, rather than internet frivolity.

[BlooInBloo]

1. Well sure - when you say it like THAT, it sounds fucking jackass stupid....

Oh - wait - it really IS fucking jackass stupid.

[billyoc]

4. Bwahaha!

:rofl:

[AllentownJake]

2. Lee Mercer's supporters are much ruder than Gravel Supporters

Mercer and his team are assholes who only want to cause problem. Tombstone all of them. I will never vote for Lee after what MercerforIndiana said to me last week. NEVER!

If this continues I'll vote for Guliani in the GE.

[SallyMander]

6. LOL

:D

[WeDidIt]

3. There are a small minority who will, like this guy

[SallyMander]

11. Nah, that guy won't even make it to the polls

;)

[bicentennial_baby]

5. Totally....I can't believe the way that

Lee Mercer has been treated here! :mad:

[SallyMander]

7. Series!!1!1! It's HUGH!!11!!!1

:rofl:


:loveya:

[AllentownJake]

9. You vile Mercer supporter

You better kiss my ass or I'm voting Guliani. I'll do it and your disgusting candidate will never be in the WH.

[bicentennial_baby]

41. Pffft! If you're going to be like that well...

I'm voting Gravel! Take THAT! Ha!

[TexasObserver]

8. Apparently some are. Asinine? Absolutely.

The common theme of all those saying such is: "I AM MAD! I DON'T LIKE OBAMA'S SUPPORTERS, THEREFORE, I AM NOT VOTING FOR OBAMA. MY FEELINGS ARE HURT, AND THAT'S WHAT MATTERS WHEN VOTING FOR PRESIDENT!!"

It's IDIOCRACY, come to life.

[SallyMander]

10. That movie scared the bejeezus out of me

It was the constant theme of how RIDICULOUS it was, yet how close we are to being there...

Now I can't watch "America's Funniest Home Videos" without thinking of "Ow! My Balls!" :P

[TexasObserver]

12. I like MON-NEY!

What a parody of our trends it made.

Especially that "talkin' all faggy" theme for the various anti intellectual memes.

[NashVegas]

13. After All, It's Just a Game, Right?

Maybe we should draw up an html document and park it somewhere for future primaries on DU.

The document would say something like this:

Look, we're about to enter a primary season and though we are all Democrats here you need to understand that some of us are are going to slime the ever-living piss out of your candidate, and we're going to cast aspersions on you as well if you try to defend or promote your candidate.

Just remember, we really don't mean it. We'll say we mean it, we'll scream like we mean it, just know that it's all part of the game and we do this because we think it's what we have to do to win. If we allow positive posts about your candidate to remain uncontested, someone looking in from the outside might get the idea that DU endorses your candidate or, heaven forbid, think your candidate might have a chance of winning.

You are free to attempt to do the same thing, but if you don't have the sheer numbers and ruthlessness we do, you're fucked.

When it's over, we'll all hold hands and sing kumbaya. Don't like it? Where else ya gonna go? Smirking Chimp? Have a blast with that.

It's always fun 'til someone gets an eye poked out.

[SallyMander]

14. LOL! Perfect

Wish I could K&R your post. :D

[PurityOfEssence]

15. Yes. Life is complex and decisions are incremental

If one gives a damn about one's political standard-bearers, one should attempt to be an ambassador for them. Jumping up and down triumphally and barking how so-and-so "ripped 'em a new one" or similarly nauseating things is off-putting, and can affect those one would like to sway.

People are judged by the company they keep, and many people need to learn this primal lesson about the human critter.

One of the standard lines of attack that reactionaries use against leftists is that we're primitive and violent, so we need to be on our best behavior.

[SallyMander]

16. I totally agree that classy behavior is preferable

However, you say "People are judged by the company they keep" -- and neither candidate has any control over what their supporters say here, or anywhere else. So isn't it unreasonable to "punish" the candidate (not to mention their numerous *civil* supporters and the rest of our country) by voting for McCain or staying home?

[PurityOfEssence]

34. Groups can and should police themselves

You'll notice it on a regular basis here where various members of the factions scold their cohorts on tacky or unpleasant behavior. Candidates DO have a lot of influence: they can chide their followers or suggest approaches that work better.

Everything affects everything.

I also, like many, presume a lot about the candidates by the kind of supporters they have, and the reflections are often quite illuminating. Others do so too; it's just human nature.

[slinkerwink]

17. Yes, people do that, actually.

[bow-tie]

18. Rove and Lintball

got just what they wanted, they split our party in half, how many of you morons can't see that?

[LordJFT]

19. k&r, I was going to make a post like this myself

[SallyMander]

22. Thanks LordJFT

I'm sure a few more posts along these lines can't hurt... :hi:

[bain_sidhe]

20. You're advocating bullying without consequences

As I've said before, if a bunch of people beat up on someone, all the while shouting Obama's name, of course that's going to affect the person's attitude about Obama.

I don't think most Obama supporters are quite objective about this, but I was on the fence until the Pennsylvania primary, and I've shuddered at both sides' viciousness sometimes. Yes, there are Clinton supporters who are just as rabid, but the overwhelming majority of rabid posters here are Obama supporters. The sheer quantity of attacks from them makes them look worse than the Clinton supporters.

Now, in the long run, I hope those who have been hurt by the viciousness of some of Obama's supporters will come back into the Democratic fold. But it's disingenuous to ask them to do so while the bullying is still going on. There are too many of the worst offenders who have stated their intention not to stop attacking until Clinton concedes. We can't have *any* reconcilliation until after that, and even then, it will take time for wounds to heal.

Bullying has consequences. I only hope that they're short lived.

[SallyMander]

21. *I* am advocating bullying without consequences?

No, I'm just positing that the consequences should be directed at a target that makes sense. Argue all you want, call the bullies out, tell them why they're wrong, call their moms names. Whatever makes you feel better. But it's illogical to take that anger and passion and use to to further the agenda of these guys:

[bain_sidhe]

23. The "are you going to let a bunch of interent posters..." argument

is essentially advocating bullying without consequences, yes.

What it implies is that anyone can be as mean, divisive, cruel, and vicious as they want, and their victim should just take it, and not hold it against them or the candidate in whose name they posted their attacks. That's bullying without consequences.

People WILL be angry. People WILL be upset. I do hope they'll get over that anger and upset, and realize that their best interests lie with supporting Obama. But you can't ask them not to feel angry AT THE TIME THEY'RE BEING ATTACKED.

Before somebody points out that Obama supporters have reason to be angry and upset about some of the things Clinton supporters have posted, well, yes they do. But *their* anger isn't going to affect our chances of victory in the General, because Obama WILL be our nominee. Clinton won't.

[SallyMander]

26. ???

I don't think you got the point I was trying to make. You are still arguing THAT THERE SHOULD BE consequences. I never disputed that. I asked about the TARGET of those consequences, and aiming the fire at the source of the bullying -- rather than innocent bystanders.

[bain_sidhe]

30. What do you consider "the source of the bullying"

I'm confused. (Not the first time, won't be the last.)

I think the source of the bullying is the Obama "supporters" here--there the ones doing it. But that anger can't help but attach itself to Obama in the victim's mind, because the "supporters" are supposedly doing it in his name.

My hope is that the victims will, with time and distance, recognize that Obama is, indeed, not responsible for the bullying. But that's not going to happen instantaneously, and until then, those who have been bullied by Obama supporters are still going to associate the bullying with Obama.

(Same is true, of course of the victims of Clinton "supporters" but, as I said above, that's not relevant to the general election.)

[SallyMander]

31. We are totally on the same page

I guess I was just optimistic that people would be able to disengage the link between Obama's supporters here and Obama himself a bit quicker. But that's probably naive, and that strong negative association results in people wanting to punish Obama for the things that his supporters say. Obviously Obama has no control over any of this, so in my opinion the consequences are misplaced. The people who will "pay the price" for the bullying will be anyone who will suffer under a McCain presidency -- a.k.a., all of us!

I totally understand what you're saying, though, and I hope that events go as you predict!

:hi:


Totally OT, but what does your user name mean?

[bain_sidhe]

32. My username means "banshee"

At the time of the 2000 election, I felt like one -- a voice wailing in the dark to warn of impending doom. I was on a different message board then, at About.com. When I discovered DU (April of 2001), I used the same name, even though the "doom" had already happened (Bush had been selected).

According to some gaelic experts though, it's misspelled. It should be "bean sidhe," apparently. But I got it out of the glossary of a C. J. Cherryh novel, and that's how she spelled it.

[SallyMander]

36. Aha! I thought it sounded like Gaelic

I had an Irish babysitter growing up in Boston -- most of the Gaelic I heard were choice words when we were stuck in traffic. :rofl:

[AllentownJake]

24. I see more bullying on the Lost Site

I go to than on here over theories about the Island.

[WillyT]

25. Most Will Cool Off, Come To Their Senses, And Do The Right Thing...

and some will not.

It's just a matter of numbers now.

And I doubt that the permanently outraged will be that big of a number by November.

What WILL be interesting to watch, is how many HRC supporters throw her under the bus when she starts supporting Obama, and asks her supporters to give their votes to him.

:shrug:

[SallyMander]

28. I hope you and the poster below are right

I know some people think that this long primary has been good for the parties, but to me it looks like a train wreck!

:hi:

[Orangepeel]

27. Nah. Most people are just venting. Others are looking for an excuse

Some people would base their votes on something that stupid -- say, voting against a candidate because they got cut off in traffic by a car with that candidate's sticker on it. But those people are just looking for an excuse -- either an excuse to vote against that candidate or anything to make the decision easy.

But most people who care enough about politics to post on a political message board aren't looking for some sort of easy sign about who to pick. Some might be looking for an excuse to vote against a particular candidate.

Most just feel bad because their candidate lost and are trying to make supporters of the other candidate feel bad, too. It's just venting. It will pass.

[SallyMander]

29. I hope you're right

I know I've said some silly things in the heat of anger... hopefully that's what's going on in the majority of cases here.

"But most people who care enough about politics to post on a political message board aren't looking for some sort of easy sign about who to pick." An excellent point! It's easy to get sucked in and forget that we are far from a random sample of the electorate! :D

:toast:

[LWolf]

33. No. My vote is based on issues and record.

Neither have the platform or record to earn my vote.

[SallyMander]

35. What do you plan to do in November? nt

[LWolf]

37. I'm undecided.

Other than deciding that I won't mull my choices and make a decision until after the convention.

[SallyMander]

39. Fair enough.

I will be interested to see how people feel at that point, and how they feel in November. I've had a lot of trouble feeling energized about this election -- I *really* wanted Gore to run, and then I was an Edwards gal -- so I'm hoping my own level of enthusiasm will also rise!

[Elspeth]

38. Yes. :)

:beer:

[SallyMander]

40. But you are not one of them?

I assume, based on your sig line?

[Hobarticus]

42. Meh...people are just pissed off

Things'll cool down, cooler heads will prevail. Everybody here knows what's at stake.