I have TWO WORDS for anyone trashing Senator Clinton for staying in to the end.

[WilliamPitt]

Gary Hart.

Farfetched? Sure. Paranoid and dumb? Maybe. Is that what I think her reason for staying in is? Certainly not.

This is why her staying in doesn't bug me one bit. That, and all those states that got to vote and really decide an election for the first time in nearly 30 years (Indiana and North Carolina decided this thing, almost at the end of the string, and that may have never happened before). It thrills me when I think of all those Midwestern and Southern Democrats with a taste for ballot power in their mouths who can't wait for November. That's huge.

But Gary Hart did happen. Obama has feet of clay, like they say, and that old political saying about "getting caught with a dead girl or a live boy" didn't come along by accident.

0.000000001% chance of Obama getting caught up in something damaging enough to make him step out of the race...so having Clinton and her team still operating on all cylinders is reasurring, because they can step in seamlessly and carry on the fight. They'd have my support, that's for sure.

No chance, right? I think it's pretty remote.

Gary Hart.

Thanks, Hill. Just in case.

[sandnsea]

1. You've been wrong before, you'll be wrong again

It's easy enough for a candidate to step aside if there's a scandal, or the supers to do a backroom deal. She doesn't need to fuel the hatred against Obama with all her MI & FL lies in case of some unforeseen event. It's a stupid argument, one that has never been made until this year.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cliffordu]

25. That's right. He was inspired by the pint hidden in the toilet tank

to suggest Hillary as a spare, you know, just in case the fifth we bought turns out to be...not enough...

[AZ Criminal JD]

57. Now we know where you hide yours.

[cliffordu]

61. Nope - When I drank I kept mine in the freezer. With an oven mitt on top

of the refrigerator so my hand wouldn't get cold.

[quiet.american]

63. I know drinking issues aren't funny, but you surely just made me guffaw. :) nt

[cliffordu]

65. I am a live under the bridge drunk. I haven't had a drink in 21 years.

and the oven mitt story is true.

Ask me about bringing the wrong cat home from the vet while drunk......

[quiet.american]

72. True congrats to you for your recovery and discipline.

For some reason, the image of the "oven mitt" part of your anecdote just gets me.

[cliffordu]

79. Thanks for the compliment.....

To this day when I look for the oven mitt I instinctively glance to the top of the refrigerator....I get a laugh out of it too, but it is a reminder how close all those old behaviors really are....

Now I'm a mountain bike junkie...I ride a couple hours a day.

I rode my bicycle across the country 3 years ago. I want to do it again.

[quiet.american]

87. That's inspiring! nt

[cliffordu]

89. Nawww....Just trying to get through the day without blowing myself up....

:patriot:

[SwampG8r]

81. oh that is the best

like fire and ice all at once

i no longer drink
i make a hell of a fine rum tho
dont tell anyone tho ok?
kinda secret

[cliffordu]

84. Haw - Ok, your secret is safe with me.....

:patriot:

[sandnsea]

30. Well I didn't say that

I just said this is wrong, because I can't believe how many people are repeating flat out erroneous information and are afraid to say anything against Hillary.

[roguevalley]

26. if that was the example she had quoted, perhaps. but she didn't.

she evoked an assassination held in June. That is reason enough for her to leave in shame. she felt it, the pictures show it but she won't quit. ever.

[Terre]

64. Wish I could "recommend" comments n/t

[fed_up_mother]

All she has to do is suspend her campaigning.

She doesn't have to quit with no chance of stepping in.

[MannyGoldstein]

22. Absolutely - She'd Keep Her Delegates

But she's in it to destroy Obama and set the stage for 2012.

[Forkboy]

2. I've enjoyed seeing states get a chance to be a part of all this that usually dont have a say.

I don't mind her staying in, but I truly believe she's just hurting herself at this point. Obama will beat McCain regardless, so I think the divide issue with Dems is being overblown. But she's burning a lot of bridges that may not be able to be rebuilt down the road.

[emilyg]

37. O will not beat McC.

Just my opinion. Hi pal.

[Forkboy]

52. In a normal election year I'd agree with you.

But the displeasure with the economy and the war runs far too deep for McCain to overcome this year, be it against Obama, Hillary, or just about any of the candidates we had. The special elections that no one expected the Dems to win, Mitch McConnell in trouble now...they're all signs of a level of anger and frustration that will doom McCain. When polls show that 80% of the country feels we're on the wrong track they're not going to choose more of the same, and that's exactly what McCain is offering.

And we haven't even turned our guns on him yet. He has very few angles of attack that can't be turned back on him. Pastor? No go, his is just as bad. Lobbyists? I pray for him to bring that up. The war? People are sick of it...except for McCain. The economy? McCain himself admitted he didn't know much about it. Patriotism? The only angle he really has, but it's not the magic bullet he needs, and I suspect many are getting sick of it being used as a ploy. And the ones who do buy into that wouldn't have voted for any of our candidates anyways.

Of course, that's just my opinion. ;)

Hope you're doing well. :hug:

[iconicgnom]

114. nicely said. I too think that's how it will be done.

[ZinZen]

94. Disagree. I think a potted

plant would beat McBush this time around. It's all in the timing.

[Warren DeMontague]

112. I think by any rational analysis Obama is a stronger GE candidate than Hillary is.

And I do believe Obama can beat McCain-- this year, in particular. Not a sure thing, never a sure thing, but I think he's got a VERY solid shot.

[NC_Nurse]

3. I'm fine with her staying until the rest of the states vote, but after that she

should suspend her campaign. She can start back up with no problem if something unforeseen occurs.

[baldguy]

4. Not when she gets her talking points from Karl Rove.

And schmoooozes so naturally with Bill O'Reilly

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N64fDLplBfQ

[Supersedeas]

148. it's all about the short-term political benefits and the hope of future forgetting

[Berry Cool]

5. Oh, so NOW we're supposed to thank "Hill" just in case "Feet-of-Clay" Obama

gets caught in a sex scandal?

And we're then all supposed to come running for the great taste of Hillary Clinton??

No thanks. She's left too bad a taste in my mouth. :puke:

[emilyg]

8. There can be other scandals besides sex.

[roguevalley]

31. she didn't quote hart with her remarks. she is talking RFK and even

dumb people on the news know what that meant.

[iconicgnom]

116. Yes. Some might even say that Hillary is acting scandalously in this primary.

By mounting an increasingly negative campaign when her only hope is for Barack to suffer a career ending scandal.

No doubt our opinions differ on this - even tho' we seem to agree that "assassination" is only an extreme on the continuum.

[Cha]

77. What does "feet of clay" even mean?

I agree with you Berry. The more I think about this OP the madder I get.

[stillcool]

6. the "Catastrophic Event" strategy..

I would think that would require Hillary staying in the race till November...just in case.

[El Supremo]

What kind of Monkey Business is this?

Gary Hart, who I met a few weeks ago, is a great and smart man. But back then his brain was in his pants. Obama is far more level headed and not likely to make any mistake that is on the same level that Hart made.

[emilyg]

7. kick

[gabby garcia]

12. her out of the party!

[emilyg]

24. Kiss my grits.

[gabby garcia]

28. i don't think so, flo.

[emilyg]

34. That's OK Mel.

[gabby garcia]

41. chin

gate

[gabby garcia]

10. you wish.

enabler.

[MichiganVote]

11. She's a candidate until she isn't. All the rest is a lot of what if's, if only's.

Lot of spin on this board regardless of who the candidate is. I can understand people not liking her campaign, or its style or its candidate or the pantsuits for crying out loud. But there is plenty of BS being levied against Clinton just as there are inconvenient facts that some want to gloss over.

Pushing a rock uphill is a lot of work. The Clinton campaign will be over when its over.

[baldguy]

14. She's a candidate until she loses.

As in - CAN'T WIN! That was 3 months ago.

[MichiganVote]

29. Doesn't matter. She shows up at a primary, people vote for her.

It will be over when its over. Relax.

[polmaven]

43. hate and vitriol

do not relax. They are always in high gear.

[MichiganVote]

44. Hate doesn't win general elections.

[polmaven]

47. No, it does not.

And that is part of what scares me. Senator Obama is not helped if his supporters use that in the general elections. Independents and left leanint (R)s will not be won over by vittiol.

[MichiganVote]

48. Now you're thinking. And even if or when Obama is the prez elect

he is going to have a hell of a time controlling a party that is just as bent on amassing power as any GOP Rove you can name.

[iconicgnom]

118. I don't think so.

I don't think this board is all spin on election issues. I agree that opinions expressed on boards like this don't change the actuality of who a candidate is. But that isn't the purpose of these discussions. To my mind the nature of any political discussion serves to define the participants, in some way or another. In this race, both the primary and GE, the definition is important. Words do matter - in a very essential way. So not only do we discuss, we debate, and that's a good thing.

The tautology "The Clinton campaign will be over when its over" is empty. For example it gives no insight into why people who have many differing views find the timing important, given the current state of affairs.

[BelleCarolinaPeridot]

13. No thanks and no thanks.

If you want to stick around for just in case purposes start at home.

[xchrom]

15. she should stay in as long as she wants to -- that's politics

and she has plenty of votes to back up her staying.

[roguevalley]

35. then she needs to pay all her bills NOW. she is showing nothing

but contempt for the small vendors she's screwing over and contempt for the people who see she can't manage a dime right. Jeez, either pay up or fuck off.

[xchrom]

40. they'll let you know when you get to tell other people what to do. nt

[roguevalley]

55. your comment is a bit ambiguous to me. frankly, if she can't pay

her bills, especially the small vendors that can't hang on, then she needs to go.

[xchrom]

75. how amibiuous is it? -- you don't get to tell her what to do. nt

[roguevalley]

88. and YOU don't get to tell ME what to do. jeez. so, you want a person

in charge of a destroyed financial array that can't pay people who helped her in good faith during her campaign? I can say whatever the hell I want. No one is going to make that woman quit because she is beyond the pale. stay in or out, who the hell cares? she is going to lose anyway. And, this country will not soon forget how she acted.

[xchrom]

91. you can say whatever the hell you want -- stomp your feet -- shake your fists --

have unending hissy fits -- and hill will still make her own decisions regarding her campaign.

[emilyg]

95. "This country"? You mean you won't.

This country is worried about gas prices, unemployment, health care.

[newmajority]

16. And look how well that worked out when the supers picked Mondale over Hart

A 49 state loss. Hart would have done better. Before the "scandal" he would have kicked Reagan/Poppy's ass. After he still would have done better than Mondale. Better yet, nobody would know who Geraldine Ferraro is now, and we wouldn't have to listen to her racist bullshit.

And for the record, I still say that the fact that Donna Rice "miraculously" transformed into a right wing anti-porn crusader is evidence that Hart was set up. Sure, he fell for it. Just like Bill did with Monica. But that don't mean Poppy wasn't behind it.

Even if Obama was getting some on the side (which I doubt) who's gonna call him out on it? Bill Clinton????

John McCain, who committed adultery with his current wife when he was still married to his first, not a beer heiress wife??

Nope, this ain't a good case for DLC appeasement. Not by a long shot.

[emilyg]

96. Hart's penis set him up. That's all.

[RoyGBiv]

106. The Scandal was in 1987 ...

Leaving us with Dukakis.

Hart lost 84 in part because he stopped being a "new" kind of Democrat during that campaign and partly because the supers were nearly unified behind Mondale.

[tularetom]

17. You never did say what you thought was her reason for staying in

I'd be curious to hear, because I think it's as simple as this. She wants to be in a position to trash Obama as much as possible hoping he will be so damaged that McCain will beat him in November and leave the field open for her to run against the old dude in 2012.

She knows she has no chance of gaining the nomination. What she has failed to calculate is the residual resentment that she will face from millions of Obama supporters who will rightly or wrongly blame her if their candidate loses the general election. She isn't a terribly well loved politician to begin with and she'll have a hard time getting nominated if more than half the Democratic base hates her guts.

Besides if any Dem politician faces the prospect of being caught with a dead girl or a live boy it ain't Obama. You know damned well who it is. There are fresh Clinton scandals just waiting to be revealed should she become the nominee.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

18. I don't think she should drop out, but she needs to stop with some of her tactics

Comparing the MI and FL thing to Zimbabwe's election is not helpful.

[juno jones]

19. I thought Gary Hart

Was basically innocent and caught up in journalistic madness stemming from a stupid photo-op. I was told that it was unfair he was tossed aside over unfounded allegations. Wasn't Gary Hart actually innocent and actually an all right guy?
I doubt Obama's gonna be caught with his pants down. Seems to me, Michelle wouldn't put up with that crap for a moment. Just a guess.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mohc]

21. So Clinton is the "just in case" candidate?

If that is true there is no need for her to continue running her campaign in the manner she is doing so. If McCain's health were to suffer between now and the convention and he was forced to drop out, would the Republicans just hand the election to us by default because they have no "just in case" candidate? Of course not. At the convention their delegates would select the Republican they thought had the best chance of winning. The Democrats would do the same if Obama drops out, and it does not require Clinton to continue actively running. Clinton can stop advocating for superdelegates to support her, stop advertising, and most importantly stop attacking Obama and she would still be in exactly the same position as the "just in case" candidate. I would much prefer to avoid the the relatively small amount of damage done by Clinton staying in in the overwhelming likelihood that Obama is the nominee than I would the damage done to Clinton's "just in case" run done by her suspending her campaign in the statistically insignificant chance that we need her for that.

[Swamp Rat]

23. I don't find this reassuring.

If Obama's feet are of clay, then let's call up John Edwards, Joe Biden, and Dennis Kucinich.

Hell, let's call up Al Gore. He was VP, won an election (though it was stolen) and the Nobel Peace Prize.

[ClayZ]

109. I think Obama has feet of feet....

Just saying! No ifs about it! Hillary's feet need a rest, and keep them out of her mouth.

Obama's feet are fine!

Clay is for making ocarinas, etc! Do you think I should make a Bar-ocarina?

[Swamp Rat]

115. Faz um pra Bushler, porque ele tem pés de barro.

não Obama! O moço em cima é doido, cabocla!



O Obama é muito massa, super-legal! Vai ser nosso presidente! Oba!

:D

[AZBlue]

27. Sorry, but I have two words in response: suspended campaign.

If Obama were to be caught on a boat with a young girl, the Dems completely have the ability to replace him with whoever they want, including Clinton.

[ithinkmyliverhurts]

32. She need not stay in to reap the benefits of a train wreck of epic proportions.

So, no, I'm not buying.

Yet I am buying the line that I think her staying in revitalized the democratic process in states who never would have experienced it and may have gotten us some new voters. However, I imagine that this was an unintended consequence--an effect of her staying in, not the cause.

[gabby garcia]

33. "I have TWO WORDS for anyone trashing Senator Clinton...

for staying in to the end."

THANK YOU!

[Cha]

68. Which begs the question..

When's the end?

[NashVegas]

36. re: Getting Caught

I just checked a certain little gadfly's page and said gadfly claims he's going to post some vid tonight. He also says he's going to be on (ROTFL) Rense's show.

If there were any credibility to that one, surely it would have blown up already. If the trad press and more popular blogs haven't aired it, I don't see them changing their minds now, not without some proof.

In the off chance there is something real there, that's just another reason why I'm 100% for HC staying in, in addition to the past history of campaigns that have gone all the way to the convention.

[Yael]

38. I would hope that the party pick someone with more integrity (or at least a shred of integrity)

But then again, I have high standards for leadership.

[Cha]

69. A lot of us

do. We've had our eyes wide open for at least 8 years.

[ToeBot]

39. I'm fine with it too, The longer she stays in, the more bridges she burns...

the more power she squanders, the more enemies she makes, the more likely she will marginalize herself into obscurity. And she will take allot of those in her "circle" with her; they wont be missed either. Stay in Senator, till I never have to see or hear from you and your husband again.

[Cha]

71. Yay ToeBot!

Words that pretty well sum up my feelings on bilary.

[GCP]

125. The people of Nw York State love her as their senator

And would disagree strongly with you.

[SaveAmerica]

136. There are lot of people in NY ( couple thousand?) and of those I've spoken with

they would not agree with your statement.

[IsItJustMe]

42. Good luck with that stratagy. Can you say McCain. Because if that is the way it is gonna go down,

I have a feeling we will be saying that for at least another 4 years.

[crankychatter]

45. define "end" - nt

.

[dave29]

46. That is not a reason to stay in the race.

It's not like we are starved for leaders in case of emergency, and she'd be at the top of the list regardless.

[David Zephyr]

49. Here's my two words for Hillary and Bill Clinton: Go Away.

Go away.

[Cha]

70. Yeah, they haven't earned it.

Go Away is good.

[PassingFair]

50. Bobby Kennedy.

:wow:

:wtf:

[shadowknows69]

51. Maybe if that's the example she gave instead of RFK's death

I wouldn't have lost all respect for her.

[salguine]

53. What the hell is this entire post babbling about?

[backscatter712]

54. There is precedent for *suspending* a campaign.

Better yet, there's precedent for unsuspending a campaign if a front-runner, presumptive nominee, or even the official nominee jumps the shark, eats a baby, or otherwise leaves the race.

Apparently, despite her political aptitude, Hillary hasn't thought of this idea, because instead, she's chosen to boil bunnies all the way to Denver, all the way to November, to pave the way for I Told You So in 2012.

[WeDidIt]

56. 1984 Gary Hart or 1988 Gary Hart?

In 1984 Gary HArt stayed in the race through the summer and took it to the convention where he lost of the first ballot.

We lost the general election in a landslide.

In 1988 Gary HArt got caught up in the Monkey Business/Donna Rice affair early on and had to withdraw.

The closest analogy to this year would be 1984 Gary Hart, in which case we lose. IF you're trying to draw an analogy to 1988 Gary HArt, somebody should ahve driopped out long ago due to a scandal.

Your two words make absolutely no sense in the face of reality unless you are comparing Hillary Clinton to 1984 Gary HArt in which case, she's sabotaging our chances in the GE.

[AZ Criminal JD]

59. You mean like Obama supporter Ted Kennedy did in 1980 to Carter?

[WeDidIt]

60. Yes, and like Conservative Hero Ronald Reagan did to Ford

IT's a proven fact, any party that takes it to the convention loses the general.

This has been the case since 1968.

[Yael]

100. And how did we do in 1980? Or '84?

Sorry, much respect for Will Pitt and I am all for her finishing this in 6 days. But that is it. In 6 days -- no lawsuit threats, no pot and pan threats, not challenges to the Credentials committee on EVERY damn delegate elected (as per Texas) hoping to wear people down. She needs to admit that it is OVER.

[Cha]

73. And, was Gary Hart lying

about the other Dems throughout the summer? Thanks for the wrapup, IWantAnyDem. But, hilary's a dino not a Dem.

[Erin Elizabeth]

58. Ah, so that means she's REALLY doing this for the GOOD

of the party! Please. Pull my other leg.

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wileedog]

66. Meh

Even if Hillary dropped tomorrow, and God forbid something happened to Obama a month from now, who do you think would be the nominee hands down?

I think the damage being caused by further campaigning is worse than the risk of a 'rusty' HIllary campaign taking over in the case of emergency. Not that this particular group of campaigners have been very good from the start.

[Cha]

67. When's the end?

hilary can stay in until the cows come home..I just wish she'd quit her damn lying.

And, she will never be his vp..burned too many bridges.

[Occam Bandage]

74. So, she's using the RFK Vulture Strategy after all. Great!

[Yael]

102. Macabre - toon posted earlier

[brindis_desala]

76. Thanks for the breath of optimism. No wonder this country is headed

into the dustbin of history... I guess all the talk about Florida being another Zimbabwe has more to it than I appreciated. Poverty, Homelessness, Record Deficits, New Orleans, but lets burn $150 million after the also-ran was mathematically eliminated just so the corporate media can beat up on our nominee
Yeah, that's the ticket. Delusional. But that's what makes American great.

[unblock]

78. except she doesn't need to "stay in" to become the nominee in that event

she'd be better positioned to take advantage of a self-destruct scenario if she graciously suspended her campaign.
then, should obama self-destruct, she could be "drafted" as the nominee, saving the party from disaster.

that plays far better in the g.e. than bitterly contesting the primaries, constantly reminding people she came in second, and emerging victorious by default.

[Divernan]

80. "Clinton and her team operating on all cylinders" ?!?!? You're a laugh riot with that statement!

Her "team" & her campaign are already being written up by political historians as the worst in recorded history.

And exactly, precisely what is Pitt referring to with his "Obama has feet of clay" and his innuendo re "getting caught with a dead girl or a live boy"? He does everything but add the phrase, "as far as I know."

The phrase, "feet of clay" is from the Bible (Daniel 2: 31-40). King Nebuchadnezzar has a dream. The image that appears to him has a head of gold, breast and arms of silver, belly and thighs of brass, and legs of iron. The feet of this image are made of iron and clay. A stone hits the feet and the whole image breaks into pieces. It does not refer to some minor flaw, but a flaw or shortcoming or defect so major that it destroys the entire being.

His whole post seems to rationalize and justify all of Clinton's destructive (of herself, the primary process, Senator Obama, and the dem party)actions and statements.

[SanchoPanza]

82. An interesting stand

Certainly commendable in that your depiction of something bad happening regarding Sen. Obama's candidacy is framed as more of an unfortunate event, rather than a desired occurence. After the continued assurance that something was waiting to strike down Obama, in tones approaching orgasmic, one is not necessarily stretching logic to infer something particularly ghoulish in the RFK comments.

[AtomicKitten]

83. Fail.

[Hamlette]

85. you should know what a fool you are making of yourself. Monkey Business happened years after

his 1984 run for prez.

no wonder Clinton supporters are running with these silly arguments, they don't know history!

MY GOOD GOD PEOPLE. Before you make these stupid claims. LEARN SOME HISTORY AND GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT.

[DrZeeLit]

86. Duh. Really? Gary. Hart. Surely you jest? (I close my eyes and THEN roll them)

[meow mix]

90. wtf? grats on the lamest post yet.

dumb

[eridani]

92. I'm fine with it providing that she quits using Repuke talking points

Her delegates certainly deserve the chance to cast a first ballot for her just on general principles, sez I. But they could do that even if she suspended her campaign. In the event of an emergency, she could unsuspend it quickly enough.

[Zhade]

93. Most of us are bitching at her being a proven liar and race-baiter.

NT!

[grantcart]

97. It has not been nor will it ever be a case of staying that is a problem

It is a problem when she takes particular strategies that are designed to increase his negatives and will have an impact on the GE.

Continuing to try and exaggerate the demographic diggerences is a problem. Trying to delegitimize the electoral process is a problem.

I could go on but everyone knows what the reality is.

[Bryan]

98. "Clinton and her team still operating on all cylinders"?

It boggles my mind that Clinton's crack(smoking) team of advisers-making one mistake after another and plagued by constant turmoil and turnover as they are-can be characterized as "running on all cylinders". Mr. Pitt is either off his nut or in his cups, and can't be relied on in any case.

[quakerboy]

99. What do you have to say

to those of us who regularly restrain ourselves from trashing Hillary for trashing the prospective nominee?

She can stay in. She can start her 2012 campaign tomorrow. She can buy a polka dotted green zebra and call herself the King of Guam. I don't care. I just wish she would stop attacking the Democratic party and our Nominee.

[MarjorieG]

101. Hillary preying, talking Obama unelectability, is not harmlessly waiting.

She's undermining his candidacy. Period. She is not runner-up in case he can't serve.

She could suspend the campaign and give Obama time to become known. Even commend him and build his strength. That would be politick and patriotic.

Not all people in this country are paying close attention to the race. Changing hearts and minds will take more than one presidential campaign and Dem presidential term.

Hillary is not helping- at all.

[Blue_Roses]

103. ...

what's the purpose:shrug:

[RoyGBiv]

104. You had to bring up Hart, didn't you ...

Oh, the pain ... the horror ...

I think I'm working up to having a nightmare tonight about yacht floating on desert sands. The sky is purple, the ground red. From over the horizon I see a tank lumbering forth with a small Greek man at the helm, sporting not a canon for a weapon, but loudspeakers blaring out Monkey Business.

Seriously, bringing up Gary Hart provides a potential counter-argument as well. Remember 1984, Hart, and Mondale.

The primary war that developed between Mondale and Hart was none-too-good for the party as a whole, although one could argue naturally that the part was already a fractured mess at that point and that the Democratic primary then was merely a reflection of that. And, the times are vastly different. Most importantly, probably, the Democrats aren't facing off against the Great (mis)Communicator with his freshly polished hair-do, but it is a concern I think. It's not so much (from my point of view) that's she's stayed in this long. For many reasons, including the potential of a Gary Hart factor, I actually applaud that. What troubles me is Hillary's increasingly shrill insistence that she is ahead or winning or on the verge of winning or something along those lines and essentially vowing to carry this war, remaining every bit as nasty as she has been, straight into the convention during an age when conventions aren't about that anymore. It's her method, in other words.


I'll judge her more completely when I see what she does in the run-up to the convention. If her guns are still firing at that time the way they are now, I can't see how any more good is being done.

[Spazito]

105. I think I'll take your advice and simply say...

[theboss]

107. Let us count the ways this is idiotic

1. I'm not even sure what "Gary Hart" means. I assume you are talking about the Monkey Business scandal, which happened before the campaign even started. A better example may be Eagleton, though even that is a pretty poor analogy.

2. Let's pretend Eagleton is a good analogy. McGovern has stated that Eagleton was not properly vetted because the Humphreys and Daleys of the world kept maneuvering to take what he had rightfully won. He was fighting a rearguard action against his own party instead of preparing for the general. So, Hillary is doing everything she can now to keep Obama from focussing on what is important.

3. Doesn't this scenario apply to every campaign? Shouldn't Hucabee still be out there just in case McCain has a coronary episode?

4. Do you really think she wouldn't be the fall-back candidate if the unthinkable happened? Do you think Democrats would be scrambling for someone?

5. Do you really think the Clinton campaign machine EVER shuts down? If we changed the Constituion, Bill could raise $30 million, have an 80-person campaign staff, and a book in Barnes and Noble by next Wednesday.

6. Couldn't she just suspend her campaign while secretly hoping that Obama turns gay or takes a bullet? Why does she have to be in attack mode?

6. And finally, WHY THE HELL ARE YOU EVEN BRINGING UP THIS POSSIBILITY? Jesus Christ. Haven't you ever heard of not talking to the pitcher during a no-hitter? You have. Well this is 1,000,000 times worse. Who talks about awful things happening to the nominee of the party you allegedly support?

[Honeycombe8]

108. She could suspend, like Romney did, instead of drop out. This would allow her to come back in.

But no one is telling her to get out.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

110. America means the freedom to be as big an imbecile as you can for as long as possible.

:*

[Justitia]

111. Weak & ludicrous argument. I guess the other thread was simply bait.

[WilliamPitt]

120. ...or satire.

:(

[iconicgnom]

113. Yah. She could step in after Obama suffers any career crippling tragedy

between now and convention.

Like e.g. Edwards doesn't have just as much right to "step in".

Sheee, the simplicity of it.

[Name removed]

117. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WilliamPitt]

119. Wow.

I'm too stunned to be pissed or annoyed. I'm gonna, instead, take this one in and file it under "My Bad."

Think a wee, if you would allow me to rephrase.

Take a second...recall every other convoluted twisted bullshit attempt at logical explanation and/or expiation you've seen in this forum since this whole thing started. Remember an idea pushed backwards and upside-down through the wrong keyhole, until it came out the other side as a post so unutterably bereft of sanity that you were, quite literally, silenced and frozen in place.

These kinds of posts are all too common, and have been launched willy-nilly from *both* sides, mind you, since December of 2006.

Now, bearing all that in mind, read my original post again.

Now, I am *not* saying anyone who reacted strongly is wrong or stupid.

But I *am* saying one of two things, and you can choose which category fits you best:

1. You, along with apparently 99.997% of the people in this forum, are more than a little humor-starved, and wouldn't recognize satire if it walked up to you in a tux and tails, bought you a drink, and started nibbling on your ear;

...or...

2. My talents as a satirist suck so bad they bend light, which absolves anyone and everyone from over-reacting to this post.

...I'm not saying this #2 option is less likely, mind you (well, I kinda am, actually), but I've been here for 7+ years, and I've seen thousands of DUers come to take the most outlandishly satirical Onion headlines at face-value, as if they were straight-news posts...I posted an Onion headline from 2003 that read, "ACLU Defends Nazi Skinhead Right To Burn Down ACLU Headquarters," and a LOT of people bought it, even after reading the story and seeing THEONION in the link...so...that means the Onion does good satire, and mine may very well suck rocks...

Come on. Gary Hart???

Senator Clinton can stay in this race until the moon turns into buttered popcorn, as far as I'm concerned. This is all sideshow shit now, and nobody except deranged political gomers like us (and the TV fuckwads getting paid to derange the scene) are giving any attention anyway. The factions will square these circles, settle it all, and then we can enjoy months of John McCain stepping on his own self-draped carpet of assbaggery, punctuated by special days when we get to watch him be slapped around and finally called to account for all that cake he's had while trying to eat.

14:57...14:58...14:59...paging Andy Warhol...your table is ready...15 minutes are just about up.

I think I donb't do satire well, or else I do it so rarely that nobody is going to catch it, and that's on me.

But come ON...

Gary Hart???

Nobody took a second and said "Waaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiiiit a minute..."?

Suckers.

;)

Seriously, tho. Try to laugh sometime between now and Halloween. Not because anything is especially funny. Because your head will detonate otherwise.

Gary Hart. Gary Hart is the reason for extending the primaries? I said that...and you didn't snort and move on? Man...fuckin' hook, line and sinker. I guess, in comparison to standard GD-P fare, my Hart-o-centric assertion was only 12% wackball, if that. Enough to reply to without braying laughter across your keyboard.

Yikes, now that I think about it. Sorry. I guess this was kinda like lighting firecrackers inside a WWI trench. You're all kinda like Roy from Blade Runner by now..."I've seen things you people wqouldn't believe..."

But...Gary Hart...? Really?

*sigh*

No more attempts at fun from me 'til November 5th. *knock wood*

And I do sincerely apologize if I offended, deranged, confused or otherwise bewildered anyone here. Honest to God, it seemed pretty obvious to me. I meant no harn.

Kinda... ;)

*ducking, fleeing, shaking head, definitely giggling*

[theboss]

137. There is no way that was satire

If it was, it was extraordinarily poorly written satire.

As anyone with a wife knows, saying "I was joking" after a dumb comment is the surest sign of desperation.

[Bluenorthwest]

139. Off topic, but...

Satire on the internet is difficult and is often confused for a straight statement. The web lacks the sort of context or presence that makes satire easily accesable.
Part of it is the hysterical hyperbole that passes for comment so often. Quotes are rejected in favor of paraphrased characterizations of what was said. Opinion is constantly stated as fact.

No one writes well enought to make constantly recognized satire in such a context. Making jokes on the web, well, one can count on the joke being missed a few times, each time, skill of the writer and of the reader aside. There is a reason people use 'emoticons' to denote satire, as without them any opinion under the sun could be the real deal. Online, Swift would be attacked for promoting cannabilism, by a Professor of English Lit. It is the form as much as the content that confuses the humor.
The internet is flat, and there is no nuance that can be properly expressed. The finest of satire read by the most skilled of readers will often fail online. Like preforming Hamlet in a Soccer Stadium, the set and setting do color the perception of the work, no matter how great the work might be. Incorrect setting.
Just an observation. Not political. Oh, and also, this is not satire. I am actually saying satire is difficult to pull off online. It's not the writer or the reader. It is the nature of the internet. Any 'dry' humor is going to have a rough time on the old internets.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

146. That is the most beautiful story I've ever heard.

[endarkenment]

140. I think the fecal flinging fest here has destroyed satire as a tool

Nothing anyone posts here, no matter how outrageous, no matter who posts it, can be considered satire unless there is some clear disclaimer. That is a reflection of how bad GDP is, not how bad you are at satire. Your only mistake here is your misunderstanding of how bad this forum is.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

145. "My talents as a satirist suck so bad they bend light..."

So bad the stars flicker.

[JVS]

121. Tonya Harding

[Warren Stupidity]

122. Gee Will she already brought up the "something unexpected in june" scenario.

And we aren't going there anymore 'cause her illustration of one such unexpected event was one of the most appallingly unsettling remarks ever made by a major politician from our party.

[GCP]

123. Thanks Will k & r

[casus belli]

124. I have TWO WORDS for anyone supporting Senator Clinton

Gary Busey.

It could be you people. Departure from reality doesn't come without a toll.

[AllentownJake]

126. Thank God for President Mondale

Who knows what would have happened in 1984 if President Mondale didn't valiantly step in and save us from Senator Hart.

Wait, Walter Mondale lost....big time.

[Marrah_G]

127. Under the bus with you Will !

:rofl:

[brooklynite]

128. Better stay in the race until November then...

no way of telling if something will come up after the COnvention is there...better to have a an active Clinton Campign in operation the whole time, don't you think?

Seriously, assuming something did happen and Obama wasn't viable, what's stopping the delegates from picking a replacement candidate whether Hillary is campaigning or not?

[mdmc]

129. As a Spitzer supporter

I know she has a reason to stay in the race. Ya never know what tomorrow will bring.

[seabeyond]

130. right.... and ignore all the times this didnt happen both repug and dem

without any problems. that is a real reason for hillary to stay in, ... rollin eyes, lol. bah hahahah

[rucky]

131. Yet RFK and her husband were what sprang to her mind.

I'm done trying to read her mind. Done giving her the benefit of the doubt, as to her intentions.

She's just being a pain in the ass.

[frickaline]

132. I don't know why anyone cares whether or not she's in

It's not like you have to pay attention to her.

I think she has every right to stay in it, and if she says nasty things while doing so, they only reflect on her. I really doubt she'll be getting much press from here on in anyway. Her survival assessment has to be pretty low and dropping daily.

[marshall]

133. That would have been a better reference for Hillary to make

And it is so close to her own personal experience of bimbo eruptions. It would have been received so much better than her assassination reference.

[flpoljunkie]

134. It all depends on what the meaning of "end" is--as in the "end" of the primary process.

We need to marshal all our energy against John McCain--the sooner, the better. We lose when we take these fights to the convention.

[SaveAmerica]

135. As someone who is a Southern Dem (NC decider, here) the thrilling ballot power taste

would be nice if it weren't overpowered by too many shakes of Clinton desperation. It's so sad to see that the Clinton Chowder that used to be so appetizing to so many of us has become acrid and unappealing. The overuse of hate tends to make things more bitter.

The only good that really has come of this was to show that if the Clinton's couldn't look ahead to see what their own actions were doing to their own chances and reputations, how would they be able to make decisions to benefit our country if they were president? It really has opened my eyes. It ends up being really bad for the Clintons in the long-run.

[truebrit71]

138. Spin it anyway you want she is damaging the party with her right-wing rhetoric...

..and her right-wing scare tactics and has made this as plain as day that she is in this for HERSELF, the Party be damned...


My two words to her?

GET OUT.

[DinahMoeHum]

141. Either Clinton or Obama would be a million times better than McBush

and that's the long and the short of it.

:kick::kick:

[Imagevision]

142. weell...can't Billary just rehash Obama's Coke use?

[Bucky]

143. Do you distinguish between trashing her for staying in vs trashing for how she campaigns?

Is there a difference between criticising her and trashing her?

[GoesTo11]

144. Two words: cost-benefit

If there's a 0.000000001% chance of Obama having to step out of the race, is having HRC in the race worth reducing Obama's chance of winning the GE by 30% because of all the wasted time,.money, energy, emotion and attention going toward the HRC distraction?

Two other choice words come to mind if she's willing to do that.

[JackORoses]

147. HilliamPitt?