A candidate's untruths about party rules, a pending lawsuit that is a joke..and my "integrity."

[madfloridian]

I am livid today at all the propaganda the wife of a former president is spreading right out in the open. I have been posting about it, posting her own words and those of her husband, the former president.

I am livid because despite my use of their own words, someone here said today that I have "demonstrated a disregard for journalistic integrity throughout this campaign."

Oh, really? Using someone's own words is lacking in integrity? Apparently it is okay to say that because it is still standing, still accusing me of lack of integrity.

Meanwhile, the Clinton campaign is literally making up new rules in her travels. Now that is not showing integrity.

Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton is entering the Kentucky and Oregon primaries on Tuesday with one of the most pugnacious political messages of her campaign: That she is ahead in the national popular vote when all votes are counted, including from the unsanctioned primaries in Michigan and Florida, and that party leaders who have a vote as super-delegates should reflect this level of appeal.

This argument is of a piece with Mrs. Clinton’s increasingly populist image, as a fighter on behalf of average people, but it is also a debatable claim: Most tallies of the national popular vote put Mr. Obama in the lead, especially when Michigan and Florida are not counted.

...."If all states with popular vote totals are counted — which would exclude four caucus states that have not released numbers — Mrs. Clinton would lead Mr. Obama by more than 26,000 votes out of more than 33 million cast. By other calculations, Mr. Obama is ahead in the popular vote.

No one in the party is on TV calling her out on her distortions. Where are the DNC, the DNCC, the DCCC, the DSCC....why are they not out saying that she is not telling the truth?

We are here counting the many ways in which the Clinton campaign has changed the rules daily. We are angry because she is telling untruths in public on TV about the party. We think someone should be calling her on her untruths, and no one is.

But we are forgetting that two fellows from Tampa, one a chairman of the county Democrats, still have a pending lawsuit which they have said they will continue by using Rule 11 to get to the Supreme Court. The two fellows laugh and joke about their lawsuit, as well they should. But it is nonetheless pending, and might be heard. And if it is not heard, they will still try for the Supreme Court by August.

Suing DNC for discriminating against white people in FL, using Rule 11 to get to the Supreme Court

South Carolina and Nevada were allowed to hold their primaries before February 5th because the high percentage of blacks and Hispanics in those states helped compensate for the pasty complexion of Iowa and New Hampshire.

That's the basis for an amended legal filing planned by Tampa Democratic activist, Victor Dimaio and attorney Michael Steinberg who are suing to have Florida's entire Democratic delegation seated at the National Convention in Denver this summer. DiMaio's original lawsuit claimed the DNC's punishment of Florida violated the equal protection clause of the 14th amendment, but that suit was kicked back by the federal appeals court in Atlanta. Steinberg had a brainstorm when he read discovery papers in a similar lawsuit filed by Senator Bill Nelson that showed the DNC put South Carolina and Nevada's primary dates ahead of 46 other states to give minorities more of a voice in the nominating process. Since the DNC receives federal money to hold their convention, the party is subject to federal civil rights law.

What an interesting turn of the worm. Sometime next week, we may have democrats suing democrats for carrying out a very democratic policy of advancing minorities. Steinberg and DiMaio acknowledge with a grin that their reverse racism accusation will ruffle feathers, but hope the conservative judiciary will be delighted to strike a blow against affirmative action and rule in their favor. Their only objective, they claim, is to see all of Florida's delegates seated based on the January 31st primary election

If I in my "lack of journalistic integrity" were to write a soap opera, I would not even have to make anything up at all.

All the elements are right here in front of us....a candidate failing to tell the truth, and a lawsuit that is even being laughed at by the two guys filing it.

Wait, I forgot the words of the former president where he speaks of the Democratic party in the third person, as though he were not even a party of us. He rips the rules apart.

“The Democrats said, ‘We’re going to decapitate them, smudge them, step on them, act like they never existed, act like they never voted"

The Republicans are supposed to be the people that don’t count votes in Florida, not Democrats,” said Clinton.

“The Democrats said, ‘We’re going to decapitate them, smudge them, step on them, act like they never existed, act like they never voted,’” the former president said. “It’s very strange that the Democrats would be more authoritarian and more hostile to the voters.

“Do the right and decent thing by Florida and Michigan. Don’t let the Republicans look more enlightened than us, which they do today. It’s unbelievable. I never thought I’d see that,” Bill Clinton said.

That is the worst kind of lack of integrity. Making up tales about the party rules to win.

I will take my kind of integrity over theirs any old time.

[NewHampshireDem]

1. First Rec!

Excellent work as always!

[babylonsister]

2. I'm stunned by the silence myself. Why isn't Dean addressing the lies? nt

[madfloridian]

3. I think they are all afraid of the wrath of the Clintons. The SDs are cowards

because they fear their constituencies too much to stand up for the truth.

And I will tell you this...I will be attacked over this post just like the others. I usually get word ahead of time, but not always.

[Tatiana]

25. I have been calling California undeclared SD's. There is an element of fear in their reluctance to

endorse right now.

They are clearly for Obama. But they are afraid of reprisals. These are not Kennedys or Kerrys who have the clout and standing to go toe to toe with the Clintons.

Pelosi is working the House SD's, though, trying to provide them with cover.

[SwampG8r]

90. they will know soon

the clintons squandered all the power they had on this race
dump em and nothing will happen

[papau]

46. Really disagree - both w/ your "facts" - and w/ idea you lack anything incl integrity - Hill's 28000

vote lead is real and will be several hundred thousand when the final vote is cast June 3rd.

The "dispute" (4 caucus states with no official numbers but estimated at near zero dif in votes) plus "By other calculations, Mr. Obama is ahead in the popular vote" which refers to pulling numbers out of ones ass and claiming the are valid, is an Obama fan problem - and not of much interest to Hillary fans.

Indeed given the Hillary hate and determination to not offer her the VP spot, the Obama election is not of much interest to many Hillary fans. Get back to influencing the Dem Party - as opposed to just speaking to the Obama chorus - by letting go the Hill hate and putting her on the ballot as VP - as soon as possible. Your insights are valuable but are being lost in this constant spew of hate for half the party.

[sybylla]

48. Constituencies or the DLC?

If you have aspirations for your political career, pissing off the Clintons and the DLC is not a good thing to do.

Not that we haven't had SD who belong to the DLC come out for Obama. My own congressman did just that. He's always been a member and never been afraid to go against his constituency on some issues. However, I think his political aspirations have shifted so that he doesn't feel he needs to worry about the DLC anymore.

[rucky]

4. I think he'll do it in a way that doesn't split the party.

but that's going to take some coordinated action.

[madfloridian]

15. Dean, Gore, and others are bringing the fundraisers together behind the scenes.

BUT someone needs to be speaking out about the rules which do not use the popular vote for the nominee.

I think you are right...more is being done than we know. But it angers me to see her just make up stuff on TV

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

81. The Field: SEND IN THE CLOWN (Geller)

Update: Guess who met with Senator Geller, yesterday?

Send In the Clown

By Al Giordano

No three ring circus - like the one that Senator Clinton is ginning up regarding the Florida and Michigan
non-binding straw polls last January - would be complete without a clown.

And right on cue, enter Florida State Senator Steven Geller:

Sen. Steve Geller, D-Cooper City,
filed a federal lawsuit today force the national Democratic Party to recognize the 1.75 million votes
Floridians cast during the Jan. 29 primary and seat the state’s delegation at the convention.

Here is the same Senator Geller, caught on videotape, during the proceedings
in the Florida Senate that led to the the illegitimate January 29 “primary” upon
which he wants the Florida delegation based and seated:

Click here to view video

Note how he was mocking and gaming the system even back then.

His lawsuit, by the way, is a non-starter: the courts have always ruled that political parties
get to define their own internal decision-making procedures, including with presidential nominations.

Clinton is poisoning the well as much as she can. The appeal to a 5/31 decision would take us into … July!

[anonymous171]

5. It is clear that they will not leave on their own. They will have to be forced out.

The sooner the better.

[madfloridian]

17. But how?

And who?

[NanceGreggs]

6. Well, all I can say to this is ...

:yourock:, MadFloridian!

:applause: :patriot: :applause:

[madfloridian]

7. Well, I am worried about that lawsuit. There is nothing in the news about it...

It is one of many, and these guys have money from somewhere behind them.
There is more than meets the eye.

Oh, :yourock: more!

[2rth2pwr]

8. Where is the lie in the first box?

[truedelphi]

22. Well because given that many primaries were caucuses

The popular vote in some states was never truly tallied. So how can she, or anybody, for that matter, say that she is the unequivocable winner of the popular vote??

So what hasd to be of importance in those primaries is who actually won the primary, not some assertion by Clinton that she won the popular vote.

[2rth2pwr]

36. Many primaries were caucuses?? No. A caucus is a caucus, it's not a primary.

Two different species.

[Barrymores Ghost]

61. Washington State had both a caucus AND a primary.

Barack Obama won in our caucus by better than a 2-1 margin (68% - 31%) over Clinton. In Washington, the caucus determines 100% of the Democratic delegate count, versus the state Republicans' 51-49 split between their caucus and primary.

In the Primary balloting, Obama beat Clinton by a margin of 51% - 46%, with a vote spread of nearly 39,000 votes.

Does Hillary still want to exclude us from the popular vote count? Wouldn't that be disenfranchisement?

At the end of the day, her argument holds NO water. It's is a deliberate and cynical and un-democratic twisting of few facts and a lot of fiction into self-serving result that is easier to see through than a brand-new plate-glass window.

[Vattel]

66. so Clinton's totals don't include WA? n/t

[Barrymores Ghost]

73. Correct. n/t

[2rth2pwr]

84. You can only count the contestst that make a difference. You don't include internet voting

or the favorite candidate from the third grade class. If it was the caucus that mattered, then the primary is worthless.

[Barrymores Ghost]

86. The vote was taken by ballot....Washingtonians submitted them.

Your snarkiness doesn't matter a whit. If Hillary argues this popular vote bullshit for Florida and Michigan, then every vote that was ever cast around the country should be counted in the grand total. The delegates are weighted by the caucus, but the vote was still taken, by paper ballot and touch-screen. Just the way grown-ups usually do. We played by the rules. Rules matter. Everywhere. Especially those rules that are mutually agreed upon by all involved parties. To wit, Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama and the other candidates with respect to Florida and Michigan. When Florida and Michigan Democratic party elders decided to break the rules and invalidate their own primaries, that was their decision. Result: null and void. Hillary thought she'd hedge her bet by leaving her name on the ballot in Michigan, in case, you now, things got a little tough for her. Now THAT's integrity for you.

(Get it? I mean, I can write it, really slowly, in a bright red crayon for you, if that will help you keep up...)

Except now, apparently, rules don't matter to Hillary Rodham Clinton and her petulant, pouty-lipped sycophants, now that she's LOST.

Your posts and those of your tiny coffee klatsch sometimes provide a small modicum of entertainment -- but, more often than not, reading them is like watching a trainwreck unfold in super slo-mo.

I hope you can recover your senses in time to help Democrats beat McCain. If not, then I guess we'll be seeing you.

[2rth2pwr]

92. Who is claiming they wern't made to not count? (MI and FL)

The petition is before The Rules Committee to reverse their ruling and side with the people. The people whose voices are in danger of being snuffed out so that a handful of state party big wigs get the punishment they deserve.

[Barrymores Ghost]

95. So, you think that Michigan should count only Hillary votes...

...and not designate that "Undecided" votes go to Obama? Because that's what SHE'S advocating.

Polls taken in MI after the primary show that she would have only gotten 46% of the vote if all the candidates were on the ballot. A lot of people voted for her because, apart from Kucinich (who TRIED to get his name OFF the ballot) and Dodd, she was the only game in town. But you want to give her 56% and Obama NOTHING? Wow. How democratic. What integrity.

I say the states and the DNC split the costs for a revote in both, and let the chips fall where they may. Or, split the delegates, seat them all, and let Michigan and Florida and the rest of us concentrate on beating McCain. Otherwise, tough shit, and let them take it up with their state legislators.

Keep waffling. I'll go get some butter and syrup.

[2rth2pwr]

97. You're a couple months behind, Hillary wanted revotes in both states, Obama

was nowhere to be found. Probably because he knew he would lose even bigger in a revote.

When you negotiate there are three basic stances you can take at the beginning-

!. Ask for less than what you want, and hope the other side is so generous that they will give you more.

2. Ask for exactly what you want, and hope the other side agrees to it without any counteroffers.

or

3. Ask for more than you want because in a normal negotiation you will have to give some things up to get the other side to do the same.

Which technique do you think the Hillary team is using?

[Barrymores Ghost]

101. I'm saying that her claiming to be ahead in the "popular vote" is a LIE...

It's divisive, inflammatory and indefensible. She doesn't have a BASIS for negotiation. She's not in this for Florida or Michigan voters...she is staying in to pay down her debt, extort money from Obama, and weaken him as a candidate so that McCain will win. She is setting fire to the village to drive everyone away, so that she can come back and occupy it after the flames have died and the smoke clears. This isn't about disenfranchising voters (which ain't happening -- they still get to make their voices heard loud and clear in November). It's about creating a precedent of allowing states and candidates to break party rules that spells disaster further down the road.

Michigan and Florida made their beds. It doesn't matter what "didn't happen" with Hillary's re-vote drive two months ago, or her manic "Open Letter to Barack Obama" that read like she was scrawling it against a deadline with a head-full of booze. She only argued for a re-do because she was getting her clocked cleaned everywhere else. She had no compunctions with the DNC invalidating their votes when it happened. She signed off on it, gave it her blessing (as did her toadie, Harold Ickes, who was on the DNC's R&BC) -- so her grandstanding now rings very hollow and hypocritical, if not laughable (in a sick joke sense). Florida rejected a re-vote, and wanted a caucus instead -- which SHE rejected. If you can show me where Obama -- rather than Carl Levin -- blocked a re-vote in Michigan, please do.

Hmmm...too bad they couldn't schedule a re-vote in California, too. Voters have completely changed their minds about Hillary, and polls put Obama ahead by 8%....just thinkin' out loud....

[2rth2pwr]

104. Obama is a bit more reasonable, Axelrod has already said that he is willing to go more than

halfway. Delegates will be seated, the people in MI and FL will finally have a voice.

Sad really, to see how many people that want to extinguish the voices of millions of Dem voters.

[Barrymores Ghost]

108. WHO wanted it?

Hillary, the crepe-paper "Champion of the People's Right to Be Heard," had no problem with saying "no way Jose" when she thought it was going to be a cakewalk for her.

Anyway, it doesn't change the overall outcome, does it?

So, what's she "fighting for" now -- apart from trying to bleed her backers for a little more coin and tenderizing Obama some more so that Grampy McCain can chew on him a little easier?

[2rth2pwr]

110. Hillary can still win this thing, settle down and be prepared to support her.

[Barrymores Ghost]

111. If she scuttles this ship, she'll get my vote...but she won't get a single dime or kind word.

As a democrat, I'm obligated to provide the former in the face of what's at stake. But, I don't lose any sleep worrying about that. Nor do I stay awake at night wondering what her arm-flapping chorus of screech owls will do with themselves once she's a footnote in this campaign.

My question is, will she step up to bat for the team when it's clear the team no longer wants her, or her husband, to play pitcher and manager? We'll soon see.

Scoreboard, baby. Scoreboard.

[canucksawbones]

103. after her flat refusal

the the Michigan state party's plan, I suggest she is using the hold her breath til she turns blue plan, she won't move, she won't negotiate. That alone shows what poor kind of president she would be (that's Bush's strategy too)

[2rth2pwr]

106. As the saying goes, politics ain't beanbag.

[Barrymores Ghost]

109. Sorry...your point? n/t

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

117. There's not time for a revote - and both states refused re-votes anyway

it takes time to set up an election.

Elections can't be done on the fly.

Do we want to extend this by two more months and then have Hillary
contest any result that she doesn't like?

No.

She will contest anything that there is just because she
wants to hamstring Obama and the Democrats.

[canucksawbones]

100. no the petition is

for the RBC to reverse the decision in a way that unfairly favors states that disregarded the rules

[2rth2pwr]

105. You can characterize it in any fashion you'd like, they will make a decision regarding

the seating of delegates. My bet is they will find a way to do it.

[suzie]

118. So, a caucus is not a primary

But an election with only one person on the ballot is a primary? You want us to believe that Clinton is ahead in the popular vote by counting all the votes she received in a 'contest' where she was the only candidate on the ballot.

No matter how many times the Clintons tell us that she won fair and square in Michigan and is therefore entitled to all the votes there with 0 to anyone else, I don't believe you can call that a primary.

[BattyDem]

9. I would like to thank you for your posts.

I look forward to reading them because they are always well-researched and informative. If the facts happen to be "biased" against the Clintons, that's certainly not your fault. I will take your kind of integrity over theirs any old time. :)



:yourock: :applause: :hug: :patriot: :toast:

[madfloridian]

10. That sign you made....I love it.

Aww...

[BattyDem]

11. Just wanted to let you know that you're appreciated.

:hug:

[madfloridian]

23. I saved that animation to my hard drive...

Cause it is so special. :hug:

[SwampG8r]

93. as a floridian

i agree and madfloridian is the most honest writer here

[K Gardner]

12. We really should NOT be happy about the meeting on the 31st. All Hillary has to do is appeal

any decision she does not like (and she wont like anything but full seating in her favor), and the appeals process will go all the way to the convention. Obama needs the SDs to come to his side prior to May 31st. This is utter insanity.

[madfloridian]

13. That meeting really means nothing now. She has made that clear.

She will do what she needs to do to get whatever it is she wants. If she even knows.

[ejpoeta]

42. I could see cutting the fla delegates to half

but Michigan?? How the hell can she even count michigan when she was the only one on the ballot! It's ridiculous!! If she wanted to make sure fla and michigan counted, she should have been saying that BEFORE the primaries. But it boggles the mind that anyone can actually BELIEVE that she gives a damn about either state considering that she didn't even mention it until she started losing. People stayed home and didn't bother voting because they were told their votes would not count. I think it was dumb to just take all the delegates away, but that is what the understanding was. You can't just go and decide it is some kind of disenfranchisement when you are losing.

[Tellurian]

129. Hillary wasn't the only one on the ballot...why do you promote such inaccuracies?

Chris Dodd and Dennis Kucinich were on the ballot as well in Michigan.

[Window]

14. K/R.

:kick:

[tbyg52]

16. I'm with you, madfloridian! nt

[jsmirman]

18. Good post, as always, but you should always put HRCs words right there

for everyone to see what a full of shit, despicable liar she is.

Her entire position rests on the ignorance of her audience and on no one saying, "but you said the exact opposite on ___________."

From First Family to Worst Family of Politics. At least George Sr. has some decency.

[madfloridian]

19. Here are her words when she accepted the rules of the DNC...video.

You are right, I should have included them.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1976

The video is from MTP, and here are her words.

"Here she goes again.
On Sept. 1 2007, she accepted and signed the DNC rules barring any other states having a primary earlier than the specified date. She did agree upon it before the election and now because she is losing, she wants them counted?
What about your signed pleadge? -
on MI and FL votes.

DNC Chairman Howard Dean
Letter to Democratic Presidential Candidates
August 31, 2007

As the leader of the Democratic Party, I strongly urge you to adhere to the 2008 Delegate Selection Rules...
The 2008 Delegate Selection Rules adopted by the full DNC at its August 2006 meeting clearly provide that only 4 states - Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire and South Carolina - may hold their respective contests prior to February 5, 2008. The findings of Non-Compliance included a 100% loss of pledged and unpledged delegates.


Hillary Clinton Campaign
September 1, 2007

Clinton Campaign
Statement On The
Four State Pledge

We believe Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina play a unique and special role in the nominating process. And we believe the DNC's rules and its calendar provide the necessary structure to respect and honor that role. Thus we will be signing the pledge to adhere to the DNC approved nominating calendar.
Added: April 06, 2008"

[jsmirman]

20. Even better w/ video. But her words can't be juxtaposed often enough

Durbin couldn't have put it better, except he should have started with, "well, it shows she's a liar."

And Schumer. I sat behind him at a baseball game a few years ago. If I could go back in time, I'd make sure to bust a few mustard packets onto that chump's back.

[me b zola]

21. KNR

:kick:

[Terri S]

24. Madfloridian, I have found very few things to love about FL since moving here

You are high on the list.

:yourock:

[truedelphi]

26. I feel MadFl has taken an issue that makes my head spin and made

It understandable. If only she was writing this column of hers for the WSJ or some such.

New York Times maybe??

[Tommy_Carcetti]

27. Eat us! Hey, it's Thanksgiving Day! Eat us, we make a nice buffet!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIufyg09WnQ

Eat us! Hey, its Thanksgiving Day!
Eat us, we make a nice buffet!
We lost the race with Farmer Ed,
eat us 'cause we're good and dead.
White man or red man from east, north or south,
chop off our legs, and put 'em in your mouth!

Eat me!
Sautéed or barbecued!
Eat me!
We once were pets but now we're food!
We won't stay fresh for very long!
So eat us before we finish this song!
Eat us before we finish this song!

[madfloridian]

28. How did I miss these comments by Bill about the campaign and Obama?

"In an interview hitting newsstands Friday, the former president said his wife Hillary Clinton has been “outspent, dismissed, denigrated, declared dead” this primary season.

Asked whether he likes Obama, Clinton responded that he did not know the Illinois senator very well – but “I think I understand him. There are enough similarities in our childhoods and things that I think I get what he is doing.”

Clinton said the allegation that he and Sen. Clinton played the race card was a “cold-blooded, calculated, manipulated, and a revolting strategy,” and that his only campaign season regret was speaking “late at night when I was tired, ‘cause if you are tired or angry, you shouldn’t be talking.”

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/05/21/bill-clinton-says-race-card-allegation-revolting-strategy/

[KSinTX]

64. I'm getting worried about the Clintons

These are two of the most tired individuals in politics. It's not just that they're sleep-deprived, but it seems to justify a series of stunning misjudgements and miscalculations. As it turns out, they are the last people I'd want answering an emergency at 3 a.m. much less 9 a.m. or 6 p.m.

[Irishonly]

29. Hillary Has Caused This Family To Yell At

the tv again. She is the second democrat to cause three sane people to yell at a box. The first was Lieberman. I have to mute her and her supporters. I haven't listed to her campaign mouth pieces in a few weeks.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

31. I have to "mute" her too, otherwise I have to change the channel

she has an angry "mother in law" type voice.

[Citizen_Penn]

114. Is she still talking?

I've not listened in MONTHS.

Happy now - she's silent at last.

[AtomicKitten]

30. No worries, mf. You have served as a guide to the crazy shit going down in Florida.

I appreciate all the information you meticulously put forth. Hillary Clinton has gone completely around the bend, is 110% wrong on this (10% penalty for having the nerve to think people are stupid enough to believe her), and only a hack partisan commission would see fit to let FL and MI slide. McAullife wrote about holding rogue states' feet to the fire in his book, and Dean has that same privilege and power to herd cats as he sees fit.

K&R and, again, thanks for all your efforts.

[madfloridian]

32. I keep remembering what Dean said on CNN, wish he would say it more often.

Dean on CNN: "we are not going to bend the rules for either side."

DEAN: I would very much like to have Florida and Michigan seated. Because of the circumstances under which they held their elections, essentially which were not valid elections, they aren't going to be seated the same way that everybody else is.

They can be seated in one of two ways. One, they can be seated by agreement between the two campaigns if there is no clear winner, or, two, they will be seated I suspect by whoever does win the nomination. Whoever wins the nomination will control the credentials committee, which will control the seating. And I strongly believe our nominee is going to want Florida and Michigan in the hall. Under which rules, that will depend. The nominee will set the rules.

He also said:

DEAN:...I have to chuckle a little bit. The people who are complaining that I'm not taking a stronger role, when you drill down on that a little, as I have, when they have called me, is, I see what you mean, is you would like me to be a strong leader and adopt your point of view and then ram it through the DNC. I am going to not going to do that for either side.

There are going to be donors and supporters on both sides that are mad at me. I am going to play this one by the rules, right -- there's this clear set of rules. Everybody knew what the rules were a year-and-a-half ago. Those are the rules that we are going to nominate the next president of the United States under. And we are not going to bend the rules for either side

[AtomicKitten]

33. He is so right, so unyielding in his purpose and integrity.

I really admire that. I don't want special treatment for Barack. I want fair treatment. I want the delegates seated but they must not be seated in a way that influences the election - which is precisely what Hillary wants out of this.

[Douglas Carpenter]

34. thank you very much for your integrity!!

[ShortnFiery]

35. Excellent research and commentary madfloridian! You always come through with the FACTS.

Kudos! :hi:

[LeftyLadig]

37. Your integrity is fine.....

This is the first post for me.  I look forward to your
comments; you are right on.  

[madfloridian]

39. I very much appreciate that.

Florida has been used for propaganda by her campaign way too long.

[madfloridian]

38. The "bramble bush" video is back! Let's talk about Geller's integrity.

You know, the Democratic minority leader in the Florida Senate who mocked his own amendment to keep the primary from moving before Feb. 5?

Well, Steve is back on You Tube. All that "good faith" showing again...right out in the open.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=135846&mesg_id=135846

[truebrit71]

40. The DNC needs to step in and point out Mrs Clinton's multiple errors of fact...

...the longer she gets to spout the lies the more likely people are to believe them...

She is NOT ahead in any metric that has been agreed to, votes, delegates, SD's or contests won...

She is a four-way loser and yet no-one has the balls to tell her to sit down and shut up...

Hillary dear, you're starting to sound more than a little shrill....

[Romulox]

41. You don't understand the difference between opinions, politics, and lies...

I didn't see any lies in the OP.

madfloridians opinion = / = "the truth".

[madfloridian]

43. The Clintons are lying about party rules, and the party leaders need to stop them.

I don't know what you are saying about me, don't care.

The former first couple are lying about party rules. It is sad to watch.

[shadowknows69]

44. You're top notch madfloridian, don't let anyone tell you different

I take journalism pretty seriously and you do your homework. Problem is that you just post the facts and a lot of people have a problem with those.

[SaveAmerica]

45. I was going to start a topic about the patterns used around here but don't feel like getting into it

It's the same people responding to topics (no matter who posts it) about the things the Clintons are saying and doing and then demanding to know why the OP is posting this divisive topic.

Hillary says some crazy thing in Kentucky, someone posts a link, "why are you spreading the Hillary Hate (registered symbol) here?". No comment about why she's saying the crazy.

Bill says 'the Democrats' are acting like Republicans, the poster who posts the message is "trying to stir division in the party".

The majority of Hillary supporters here are in 'shoot the messenger' mode.

[madfloridian]

47. Hey, you should start that topic....very great idea.

And you are so right, it shows a pattern. It would be a great post to call attention to it. Pick out my last several journal posts about the Cintons, and start there...full of attack patterns. Go for it.

:hi:

[Overseas]

70. Look down a few and whaddya know -- another Golly Don't Hate message springs up

"We get it you know." More condescending clap trap. That's why I've come to believe many of those pro-Clinton comments that blissfully ignore facts are campaign generated. To keep things stirred up and keep the fans tied to the Clintons' plans.

[dionysus]

49. rec'd, kicked!

[Joe Chi Minh]

50. "No one in the party is on TV calling her out on her distortions. Where are

the DNC, the DNCC, the DCCC, the DSCC....why are they not out saying that she is not telling the truth?"

I think Hunter S Thompson gave the most strikingly apposite answer to your question:

"The TV business is uglier than most things. It is normally perceived as some kind of cruel and shallow money trench through the heart of the journalism industry, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free and good men die like dogs, for no good reason."

"... and then there's the negative aspect....", someone once added, which kind of sets it off rather well, I feel.

Most DUers are probably familiar with Hunter's bons mots, but the aptness of this quote seems to be perennial. In the UK, some TV channels have been more overtly cynical, if less sinister and seminally entrepreneurial.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/6433589.stm

[Occam Bandage]

51. When this is over, you ought to write the book on FL 08. You've followed this more closely, and with

a better eye, than any other journalist I'm aware of.

[redqueen]

52. It's nearly impossible to distinguish between their "logic" and that used by Bu$hco.

Telling, that is.

[Jakes Progress]

53. We do get it you know.

You really don't like Hillary. That's okay. You're allowed.

But not everything we like to do is good for us. A perpetual state of livid and disgust and hate is just not good for the soul. Please take it easy. Keep away from the news and especially the internet. The temporary joy of shooting off a particularly damning post is not worth having the blood vessels in your head explode in purple fury.

I find that I get much better by staying away from the boards for about half the week. I always finish my time online at a few of my favorite sites that make me laugh. Laughing should be part of some candidate's platform. it is so good for you. I used to post a lot on a variety of sites. Those that already agreed with me, agreed with me. Those that already didn't agree with my POV thought I was an insane, stupid, lying bastard. The replies of the first group fed my ego and made me think they were smart. The replies from the second group just made me more angry. Nothing changed but my blood pressure. I have given up the ego trip that my rants on a site seen by .5% of the population were going to change the world.

I can change is in positive ways by teaching school, helping at the women's shelter, working at the food bank. I decided that if I was serious about wanting to make a change I should run for office. But that is not something I care to do, so I will just do what I can on the personal level.

Take a week off. See if you don't feel better. You seem like a committed progressive, and we need those. But posting your hate just to feed other's hate is not good for your body or your soul. Peace.

[madfloridian]

54. What a condescending bunch of hooey. Hillary Clinton is telling lies..

and you are telling me to take a break?

Those who love her will defend anything. What a shame.

[Jakes Progress]

98. So sorry you feel that way.

Yes, we disagree on where the lies are. But my concern was genuine. I, too, have spent days in choleric fits. I apologize if I seem presumptuous, but your rage seemed familiar and I thought to offer help. We may disagree on which meme to follow, but were you a neocon alcoholic and I was a hippie alcoholic I would still wish you help with the problem. Rage is no different. I sympathize with your feelings and just wanted to offer help.

As for the problem with taking a break, in all truth, I ask you how you think your taking a break will further the grievous sins you believe to be taking place. Surely you don't think that you saying that Hillary is lying will convince a Hillary supporter to change. There are numerous posts supporting both candidates with just as many links as you have. Have you seen any that will make you believe that Barack is a horrible person?

I do not love Hillary Clinton any more than I love all people. I did not begin by supporting her. I had other candidates that I preferred. The simple truth is that I don't believe she is perfect. It is not necessary for me to think she would do a good job as president to think so. Neither is it necessary for me to hate Barack in order to support her. i see progressive perfidy on the part of both candidates.

Please support whom you wish. And continue the anti-Hillary screeds if they comfort you. But do take time to laugh also. Take care of yourself because come November we will need every vote possible to eliminate the cancer on our country.

Best wishes and peace.

[madfloridian]

119. No more.

I have a great BS detector. I have a low tolerance for those who manipulate others.

[Jakes Progress]

123. Your detector is on the fritz.

And I don't care about your low tolerance. You thrash about in your column about how misunderstood you are and how people shouldn't question your integrity. But you don't mind leaping to unfound conclusions based on a sense of persecution. I offered a suggestion that I thought would help. Now my level of frustration is growing. My tolerance for those who say one thing and do another, who don't bestow upon others the things they demand for themselves is low. Your actions do not meet the definition of integrity. You must be very happy now. You prefer vitriol and sputter to compassion and discourse. You sew the seeds of discontent and anger. But they will grow in your own garden also. I will be supporting the Democratic nominee in November. If it is Obama, then I hope he lives up to what he says more than you, his ardent supporter. You seem not to have heard his words nor believed his message. You couldn't possibly do his efforts more harm if you tried.

[madfloridian]

124. I posted truth. You just don't like it. That is your right.

[Jakes Progress]

126. You don't get to be the arbiter

of truth. You posted a version of some selected facts that you interpreted in one way to create the image that you had before you began. It is very naive and short sighted to see things as absolutes. It is your right to think you have the whole truth on your side, but there is truth on both sides, and there are lies on both sides. Clinging to the lies of one side while ignoring the lies on the other is evidence of a closed mind.

You posted reportage of incidents. The truth is not facts or reports. It is something larger, something more profound. Don't confuse opinion with fact. We get a lot of that on MSM now. As Democrats we need to be clearer than Faux and the biased media. We need to see the flaws in our candidates so that when the other side points them out, we won't be surprised. Most importantly, we need to recognize their weakness for lobby money and power. Those are the things that will get them elected, but will keep them from doing what we want once in office. Both are power hungry and both feed at large corporate troughs. Hillary has a long history of such behavior, Barack has less of both, but has been at it for less time. One is entrenched; one is ambitiously catching up.

If we don't recognize these failings (probably inherent in politicians) we will be blind to the things they will do once in office. On the balance, they are incredibly similar personalities with nearly identical goals. The important thing is who can be elected. Not seeing that is to have bought the msm kool-aid, mixed it up, and downed the whole smiley pitcher.

Truth is in the eye of the beholder. I see it and I don't take it as truth.

Truth is beauty; beauty truth. Your tone and feeling are not beautiful. They are ugly and mean. Hence, not truth.

The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

[madfloridian]

128. Oh, Lordy...

too early in the day.

[Jakes Progress]

133. Sorry I can't try to do it again tonight.

Grandkids coming over. Then tomorrow we have the Democratic precinct get together. You know, one of those places where Obama people and Clinton people get together to talk and figure out the best way to win in November. We all like each other and respect each other's views. Not once has anyone at one of our meetings called any other Democrat stupid or a liar or something-bot.

Hope you have a nice holiday. Get some sun, some grilled corn, and laugh with the kids.


Go Democrats.

[Vattel]

55. Would you please

just identify one false thing said by a Clinton that your OP exposes.

[truebrit71]

56. Never mind...too stupid to respond to

...

[Vattel]

59. calm down little person

I would like to know if her popular vote count is accurate or not. Obviously she is including the votes in MI and FL and she isn't hiding that. And I think that makes her "popular vote total" pretty irrelevant given that Obama wasn't on the ballot in MI. What I don't know whether her count is accurate or not. Madfloridian is charging her with lying and so I assume that there is some falsehood that he or she is referring to.

[truebrit71]

60. The falsehood is that she is counting FL an MI votes. Unless you haven't been paying attention,

..my tiny correspendent, neither FL or MI had legal primaries, therefore the "votes" cast in that state are null and void. She's still counting them as legitimate.

That would be a lie.

Next?

[Vattel]

63. that's it?

I'm your tiny correspondent, not your tiny correspendent (but I appreciate the humor of calling me that). Yes, the primaries broke the party rules, but votes were still cast. You have to really parse things in a classically Clintonesque way to get much of a lie out of that, my microscopic friend, especially since she is not hiding the fact that she is including the votes cast in those states in her popular vote total. Including those votes is silly, but not deceitful.

[madfloridian]

67. She is not telling the truth about how we choose a nominee.

You are so rude, I will let you look it up on your own.

try search terms like nominee, democratic party, etc. etc.

[Vattel]

69. You must be joking.

Surely Hillary hasn't claimed that we choose a nominee by the popular vote. If she has, that would be a pretty dumb lie.

[Citizen_Penn]

115. What is lying?

Is it a lie to disinform?

In my opinion it is the most egregious form of lying. It manipulates the uninformed mind.

It's vain and cruel. Using someone's weakness against them.

And by repeating over and over that she has won the popular vote - she makes some who uninformed think that qualifies her for the nomination.

It's stupid,yes - but in an evil way.

[madfloridian]

121. Pushing the button, list updating.

[truebrit71]

71. My dear, invisible-to-the-naked-eye friend, FL and MI did not hold legitimate elections...

...therefore even though folks went through the physical process of "voting" there were actually no "votes" cast...

Claiming non-existent votes as real is a lie.

[Vattel]

96. yes,

I got it the first time my huge, menacing British opponent. In one sense (Hillary's) votes were cast, in another sense (yours) they weren't. My only point is that such a fine distinction is a pretty thin basis for accusing Clinton of dishonesty. (Stick with Bosnia instead.)

[madfloridian]

99. She is pushing a different dishonest scenario every day.

She is flat out being dishonest.

[madfloridian]

65. The nominee is chosen by "delegates", not popular vote.

And you were rude to that poster.

Hillary has done such a thorough job of lying, that it is hard to "unspin" her propaganda.

[Vattel]

68. I've never heard Clinton deny that.

She's making a case for why the superdelegates should choose her, which they are free to do. Is it a lame case? Yes. But no lies that I can see. (I was a bit rude, but truebrit had a good comeback.)

[madfloridian]

72. You are in a serious state of denial. Get back to me after doing some reading.

Maybe my journal...

[madfloridian]

58. You are kidding...right?

Of course you are.

[wysimdnwyg]

57. Thank you, madfloridian

I may not agree with every opinion you include in your posts, but the facts you present are most appreciated. Thanks in large part to you, I now understand the following:

A) Florida's Democratic Party co-sponsored the legislation to move their election ahead of the Feb 5th data, even though all states - including Florida - had previously agreed that no one other than IA, NH, SC and NV could have their primary/caucus prior to 2/5.

B) All but one or two of the FL Dems voted IN FAVOR of moving up their primary, despite fully understanding the potential consequences.

C) All Dem candidates - INCLUDING Hillary Clinton - agreed, in writing, to not campaign in FL and MI because they willfully violated the previously agreed upon restrictions.

D) Using current DNC regulations, Obama holds the lead in every major category for counting votes (most by a significant margin): Popular vote, Pledged Delegates, Super Delegates, Primaries won, Caucuses won, total states won.

E) By using some strained conditions, Clinton can "claim" a Popular vote lead. However, this requires counting both FL and MI (despite the fact that Clinton was the only one ON the MI ballot and no one campaigned in FL), as well as eliminating any count from four Caucus states, all of which were won by Obama.

F) If, of the 40% of the vote in MI assigned to "Uncommitted" were to break in a reasonable fashion (say 80-20) for Obama, he would regain the lead in the popular vote, even with Clinton's tortured math.



Please don't let the haters get you down. Your work is important to those of us who want to know the facts, not just what our candidate of choice tells us.

[Life Long Dem]

62. There is no popular vote...

And by trying to achieve a popular vote count Clinton 'will be' disenfranchising 4 states - the caucus states have a say in this election as well.

[truebrit71]

76. Amen....as Hillary BEFORE the primary season got underway said "It's about the delegates"....

...until she couldn't win them and now "it's about the votes", and then after she doesn't win that "it's about me getting the nomination because I said so and sucks boo to you if you want to follow the rules I previously agreed to adhere to"....or whatever it takes to get her the nomination....

What a hypocrite she is...

:puke:

[kentj44]

74. thanks for your message,

she is determined not to unite the party,if she were given the nomination she could not win w/o obama supporters,that won't happen.its my football and if you don't play by my rules i'm going home,sorry to have to say this i'm very disappointed by the clintons.

[YDogg]

75. FL Sen Bill Nelson has acted disgracefully

[southern_belle]

77. I've been on the phone with my Senator

and Representative to PLEASE come out and endorse Obama and end this madness. :grr:

[madfloridian]

122. I am beginning to wonder about the superdelegates and their reason

for waiting.

[hisownpetard]

78. Thanks for this post, madfloridian, and all the other informative, insightful posts

you provide us with on DU.

Your work is greatly appreciated!


:headbang: :yourock: :headbang:

[Lerkfish]

79. agreed.

[Deep13]

80. Don't see how democracy hurts the party.

Anyway isn't asking for a change within "the rules?"

Losing elections hurts the party. Throwing long-time supporters under the bus because they stand in the way of your annointed messiah hurts the party. At this point, however, it is hard to imagine what can hurt a party that died in 2002, but doesn't yet realize it. That should have become obvious when the D. Congress roled over on the war and on impeachment. The mortal wound was in 1972.

The media, including internet, campaign by Obama's people is the very same kind of campaign Rove and Atwater ran. Accuse the opponent of what you are guilty of. Frankly, HC has been running a pretty conventional campaign. HC sometimes puts her foot in her mouth. Nevertheless, the vicious hatred on this website and others like it as well as in the party and the national media is beyond belief. As I said before, you are all saying the same things and about the same time. You must be reading from the same official script. The OP here is no different. I know this because I was invited to join an internet "truth squad" for HC, but declined. This isn't journalism, it is parroting campaign rhetoric.

And the primary calander was not written to advance minorites. It was written to advance Obama. Women are a minority in positions of power and so are Mexicans. I quess neither Clinton nor Richardson was the right kind of minority for the DNC. It was a national gerrymander designed to put a wet-behind-the-ears amatuer in charge of winning the election and then somehow spinning straw into gold once in office. That's not promoting change. That's corruption.

[apocalypsehow]

82. That laughable meme doesn't cut it with anyone but the below-60 IQ crowd. The rules were known by

all before the contest began, and were acknowledged as valid. Now that the Queen's coronation has been derailed, she'd trying to change those rules in a phony, underhanded way for her own personal benefit. All this silly preening about "democracy" is simply a smokescreen for an attempt to steal the nomination from it's rightful winner.

[madfloridian]

83. Oh, wait a minute...a "truth squad" for Hillary? I don't do truth squads.

You are implying I invited you to join a truth squad. I found that absolute pathetic.

Your quote:
"As I said before, you are all saying the same things and about the same time. You must be reading from the same official script. The OP here is no different. I know this because I was invited to join an internet "truth squad" for HC, but declined. This isn't journalism, it is parroting campaign rhetoric."

I don't do "squads".

[melissinha]

85. what the hell?

What the bloody hell are you talking about? I take great offense at those remarks… what is your damn problem?

What has Obama done that has been so offensive and can you please substantiate how the primary calendar was written to advance Obama?

I am originally from Iowa, one of those four states where our opinions don’t matter to HRC because it serves no purpose to her. I participated in a caucus back when Bill ran, I wasn’t originally for him, but supported him as the nominee. Furthermore, I was damn proud to participate in the primary/caucus in Texas, I told people she wouldn’t win our caucus votes because, well, the real activist base of the party is for Obama because we are tired of the influence of the DNC.

Obama himself has been very gracious and intelligent, the candidate we have dreamed of having, that we have dreamed of supporting… someone we don’t have to make excuses for, a real statesman.

[XOKCowboy]

87. The Primary calander (sic) written to advance Obama?

What color is the sky in your world?

Let me guess. Your "reasoning" for this would be because Hillary lost 11 races in a row when she was presumed to be the front leader? That has to be a conspiracy right?

[haymakeragain]

94. Dear Entitlement Democrat, sorry your entitlement nominee lost,

but you should realize that that "entitlement" that you "believed" you were entitled to was only in your entitled imagination.

Your candidate is the one that is acting like she is being denied her birthright. Sorry.

Comparing Obama's campaign to Rove and Atwater is probably the most laughable peice of writing I have seen since..... well, ever seen. talk about projection. Damn. Look it up: p-r-o-j-e-c-t-i-o-n

"Annointed messiah"? Please. Lame-assed try, now deal with reality, she lost, he won. Quit trying to cheat.

[quaker bill]

107. Women

were the majority of the participants in every state in the democratic primary or caucus. Women were not a minority and the majority of Obama's supporters are women. Were it not so, he would have lost.

[ooglymoogly]

88. What is the meme on corporate media that both a Hill supporter

and an Obama supporter are bringing on this legal battle? Of course the crooked supreems are looking for a way to meddle in favor of the pugs if they can. The baggage laden Hill is clearly the pugs chosen adversary. For someone like me who watches the news from morning to late into the night...the press unfairness to Hill is an elaborate hoax, the truth is just the opposite.

[ooglymoogly]

89. self delete wrong place

[ooglymoogly]

91. KR for keeping it straight.

[Sunnyshine]

102. Madfloridian, your integrity is fabulous and I appreciate knowing someone else feels the same

Ickes and all of her supporters on DNC list voted to penalize Fl./Mi.! Their blatant hypocrisy is overwhelming. The Clinton's are actively using rhetoric and propaganda to divide our party along the "old" divisive lines, while taking advantage of a predictable situation in states that are prone to interference from their own partisan politicians.

They should not be using their status as leaders in our party to personally gain from these fractured elections. It's not about the voters, and it never was. She is throwing herself into the position of Chief Electioneer. There are better ways to support the MI/FL Democratic voters.

What about this?:

The latest plan would divide the Michigan delegates between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama. Clinton would receive 69 delegates and Obama 59. Elizabeth Kerr, spokesperson for the Michigan Democratic Party, said, “This proposal honors the January 15 results and takes into consideration the fact that Barack Obama’s name was not on the ballot. We continue to think this a fair resolution to seating the delegates.” When voters in Michigan went to the polls on January 15, his supporters had to vote “uncommitted.”

Not surprisingly, the Clinton campaign doesn’t like this proposal. Clinton has been lobbying for a different result: 73 delegates for her and 55 for Obama. This, she feels, gives her the delegates she won in the primary. A campaign spokesperson explained, “This proposal does not honor the 600,000 votes that were cast in Michigan's January primary. Those votes must be counted.”

For Clinton, the problem with either plan is that they do not allow her to make up any significant ground in the delegate count. She trails Obama by 157 delegates. Her once double-digit lead in superdelegates has now dwindled to just 7. Since Tuesday’s primaries, a number of previously uncommitted superdelegates have declared their support for Obama on a daily basis. http://blogs.forbes.com/trailwatch/2008/05/democrats-consi.html

The elected leaders of these states are the ones who should be getting the scrutiny and the demands. They are getting off the hook, yet again. The DNC has been saying they will work on seating the FL and MI delegates FAIRLY, so I don't understand why Sen. Clinton is causing such chaos, except to purposely undermine the position of the leading candidate in an attempt to disqualify this primary. The ones who broke the rules are the ones who are at fault. Yet, by using old school politics, the new guy Barack Obama gets blamed for the arrogant shenanigans of the unreliable partisan hacks. Unbelievable!

[madfloridian]

120. She doesn't want it settled.

It is her ticket to get what she wants..whatever that is.

Both Obama and Dean are having to pay the price for what she is doing.

Thanks for the words.

[XOKCowboy]

112. Kicking you back up MadFloridian. Tell it!

Thanks

[The Backlash Cometh]

113. We'll believe you over them, any day, Madfloridian.

Journalists owe it to the public to write the truth. Many of them don't, for whatever reason. And when they don't, they make it possible for people to do all kinds of underhanded things when they think no one is paying attention.

We're just glad you're here, keeping them honest.

[ToughLuck]

116. Oh Hillary, the hunger for power is so toxic to her.

and the fucking MSM should be focusing stories on HOW this happened in Florida..those Democrats who voted to change the date, with the single exception of one vote. Was there ever a poll taken to determine how many Floridians knew what the Dems were voting on in 2006? If Dem. reps. had all voted No, then at least the voters would have had half there delegates counted. A new low for Hillary today.

[skyounkin]

125. Bumping.

Hillary has become such a repulsive thug with supporters as delusional as the ones who still worship bush....she makes me sick. I am so ready for this to be over since last month....she just keeps dragging it on and on and on and on.

[MethuenProgressive]

127. The funniest part of the OP is the claim that their DU posts = "journalism"

That's funny!

"I will be attacked over this post just like the others. I usually get word ahead of time"

:eyes:

[Tellurian]

130. The tentacles reach far and deep...NT

[Irishonly]

131. Thank You

When you first started posting about Florida I started reading and learning. I haven't stopped. It's really too bad people can't read your posts on other blogs.

Everyone understands that Clinton wants to be president. She wouldn't have run just for the fun of it. I don't understand her willingness to tear the party apart for her own benefit nor willing to risk putting McSame in the WH. My mind just won't compute it. When you read the journals you write and a few others, the picture in your mind is frightening. Blind ambition never did anyone service. What some people call determination I call dangerous behavior. To lie consistently about it and to blame Dean for what state legislatures did is wrong. What's sadder yet is that some of her supporters see it completely differently than I do. I wonder what they would say if the reverse was true and it were Obama making the same claims.

[davepdx]

132. madfloridian, I appreciate all your effort to provide the facts.

Uh oh, one of your detractors does not like the word "facts." Okay, I appreciate all of your completely documented statements and/or evidence of certainty.

Your posts and journal entries have been meticulously researched and presented with the evidence quoted or links to the evidence provided. Your posts have demonstrated journalistic integrity as you have provided verifiable evidence throughout in order to justify your conclusions.

An excellent example of your work is how you documented how the Dems in the FL Legislature failed to heed the warnings of the DNC and proceeded with their disastrous failure to "act in good faith" (page 21 and 22 of the "2008 Delegate Selection Rules for the Democratic National Convention" for those interested) when they voted to move the FL primary ahead of DNC Rules. With all but one Democrat voting to move the election up the Dems did not show good faith. Never mind the voting paper trail aspect of the bill as the bill still would have passed because of the Republican majority. The FL Dems would have had political cover to protect their constituents and their delegates but instead they chose to ignore DNC Rules adopted on Aug. 29, 2006, rules that they had already been warned about not defying by the DNC.

The first 35 years of my life I was a Floridian and I still have a strong interest in what is going on there. I believe in playing by the rules. I can only imagine the outcry that would occur if a football game between a two team combination of the U of F, FSU, and U of M proceeded with one of the teams changing the rules as the game was played, particularly when that team was behind at the end of the 4th quarter. I do realize that politics isn't football but rules are still rules. If someone doesn't like the rules they can be changed but not in the middle of the "game."

Sorry for the "hit and run" as I am moving later today and must shut my computer down now.

[stillcool]

134. When Hillary Clinton.....

compared the Democratic Party Primary, which was run by the rules all 'voted' for, to the farce of the Zimbabwe Election, she stopped being a Democratic Candidate. I thank you for being on top of this story from the get-go..long before it reached the crescendo stage it is of late. There is no one, who has posted more articles, more quotes, more video, and given more insight into the inner workings of the Florida Democratic Party than you. Way back when this was about the Florida Democrats and Republicans, defying both of their parties rules, and not all about Hillary Clinton. The Clinton's have taken the play book of the Republicans in 2000 hoping for similar results. Scorched Earth Indeed.

[DemocracyInaction]

135. There's Such an Easy Way Out of This

Obama steps aside and says "it's all yours, broad...now you wiggle your little tush out there and try to win WITHOUT the black voters and about half the party...and I wouldn't be your VP if you got down and shined my shoes because I'm not going to let you and Bill carry me around like your "black trophy" like you have been carrying around and using us Blacks all your political careers..and when you lose you can bawl to the country that you really did get more votes, and McCain is sexist, and you are the Eva Peron of your nation and whatever else turns you and Billy Boy on". God, I already feel sorry for McCain!!!

[dchill]

136. It MUST have been one of those "misstatements"...

From my vantage point, you have "demonstrated a high regard for journalistic integrity throughout this campaign." And actually being from Florida only enhances your credibility. You are as good a raison d'etre for DU as there is - don't take pettiness to heart. I used to, but then I wised up and my blood pressure went down.

Take heart! :hi:

[grantcart]

137. This is the poison that is being offered.

Rather than fight on issues the attempt is made to discredit the source.

In the Clinton case it is discrediting the process and undermining Obama's nomination.

In your case they cannot bear the searing precision of your research and your logic.

It is in my opinion a malignant cancer http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6068288 it will continue to do damage and grow and undermine our chances in the fall.

No endorsement by Hillary now, no matter how well written will erase the feeling held by some that she was cheated.

On the upside I think that her recent reactions are the result of her receiving the word that she is not going to be on the ticket.

She is now carrying out the extortion threat that has been implicit in her campaign for months.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/grantcart/82

The extortion threat has been rejected and now the party is slowly joining quietly to undercut her and leave her stranded.

Sometimes the silent treatment is worse than a smack down. It is true that no one from the party is shouting her down.


But she lost another Super Delegate today and Obama picked up 5. It is like an old fashioned Amish shunning. No one is bothering to argue with her but no one is standing up and defending her either. Her most respected surrogates like Schumer have packed it in and others like Patterson are calling her desperate.

Sometimes the most important thing to 'do' is to be patient and wait. That is where we are at. While they could easily shut this down with Super Delegates today they appear to be slowly boxing her in, inch by inch and then roll out the FL and MI compromises. They will bring the magic numbers up to the new number and the nomination will be secured by the last pledged delegates in Montana and South Dakota.

If they do it this way Clinton will have lost all of her talking points. The flood of supers will start and even Clinton supporters will join in and any hardcore Clinton faction that wants to take it to the convention will be completely isolated.

Patience is the antidote to this poison.