Okay, I admit it, I'm surprised Hillary didn't get out of the race today.

[Phillycat]

I've said since North Carolina that I believed Hillary was staying in because she made a deal with the party leaders (possibly for the VP slot or another position) to provide Obama with political cover in WV and KY, two states he would have lost badly even if she'd dropped out. Since that kind of loss against a ghost is something McCain could have used against him in the general election, I did believe that Hillary was sparing the Democratic Party that outcome and also taking the opportunity to go out on a high note. I thought she would also soften her message to concentrate on unity, which she hasn't really done.

It appears she's not going to get out. Therefore, I have to revise my opinion as to why she's still in the race, and my opinion is now not positive for Hillary. I understand and respect the argument of allowing the last remaining primary voters to have their votes count, but let's face it, the people in late-primary states have been used to their votes not counting for decades (I'm in PA, hell, the last time our vote counted for anything other than anointing the already-chosen nominee was in the 70's), and I am starting to think that unifying the party is more important than those last few states. I'm tired of fighting with other Democrats. I'm actually physically tired of it. Aren't you? I think it's bad for the party, and certainly bad for the money we are going to need for the GE.

Anyway, as a Hillary supporter, it pains me but I need to say: I think she should get out now.

EDITED TO ADD: I said when I posted the above theory after NC that I would take it all back if I was proved wrong. This is me, taking it back.

DISCLAIMER: I've said all along I would vote for the nominee in the GE no matter who it was.

[helderheid]

1. C'mere

:pals:

[BklynChick]

2. she could be making an announcement in FL, you never know. i hope so!

[SemiCharmedQuark]

3. I think she should stay in, but...

I think she might rein in the rhetoric a bit.

[ladeyday]

15. Love ur kitty mama logo!

[Occam Bandage]

4. I think she drops on the 4th. Otherwise, well..

[Aloha Spirit]

5. I, too, underestimated Hillary's goal. When Rachel Maddow and my boyfriend both said she would go to

the convention, it occurred to me that Hillary will probably try to go to the convention.
It really sucks though, to look at her campaign decisions and try to decide where on the grayscale her motivations fall.

This nominating process cannot end soon enough, and I thank you for pointing that out.

[Writer]

6. It's sad that you have to add that disclaimer.

Your opinion should simply be taken as is; however, I know that's not what one can expect in this forum.

Gauging either the delegate count or the popular vote, these two are within 1 to 2 percentage points of each other. This is one of the closest primary battles in recent history. Not only would Clinton's ducking out abruptly send ripples through the party, but the ongoing race has stolen precious media attention away from John McCain.

She must stay in, not only for the party but for the GE.

[madaboutharry]

7. I personally believe it is time to turn

toward the general election. She needs to accept that she can not win this nomination and now she and Bill must to everything in their power to help Sen. Obama win the GE. It will do her standing in the party a world of good.

[wvbygod]

8. KY shows that she is in it to win it

The voters are still having their say so no need to drop out yet.

[Warren DeMontague]

41. Guess you finally got that caps lock problem fixed, huh?

:hi:

[Starbucks Anarchist]

9. As an Obama supporter, I say she should stay in until June 3rd.

Awhile back, I wanted her to drop out, particularly after losing 11 in a row, but we've already come this far.

She looks likely to get Puerto Rico, while Obama will close everything with wins in MT and SD.

I know she won't stop bringing up bogus arguments ("popular vote," etc.), but I am impressed with many of her successes, if not her campaign strategy itself.

My only hope is that as long as she rides it out, she only focuses on McCain. That way, we have two candidates blasting him at the same time.

Just my .02. :hi:

[Phillycat]

21. Oh, she's tenacious.

It's one of the things I admire about her. She HAS had many successes along the way. Anyone who thinks this is the end of Hillary Clinton in national politics doesn't know her very well.

I agree she should be focusing on McCain with a unity message, but I've been disappointed with her reaction to Ferraro's continued comments, which (as much as I want the sexism inherent in this campaign to be acknowledged and discussed!) are poorly constructed at best and racist at worst. Hillary needs to stop that particular train or we'll get another full month of hating on each other before we're all supposed to suddenly hold hands and sing fucking kumbaya. :D

[TahitiNut]

26. Are you asking for a "timetable for withdrawal"? You want her to "cut and run"?

:eyes:

[grace0418]

33. If only she would keep the attacks focused on McCain, I totally agree.

If only...

[slinkerwink]

10. I'm hoping that she will go out on a high note after the last primary

[Jersey Devil]

11. I thought she did soften her message - until she turned Crazy Geraldine loose again

with all the "sexist" baloney. That told me she really intends to play this out at least all the way through the primaries.

[Phillycat]

14. Yeah...

She did soften her message for a while, and was concentrating on unity. But Ferraro isn't doing ANY Democrats any favors right now - not Hillary, not Obama, not the party. Hillary should say something, and the fact that she hasn't is disappointing to me.

NONE OF THIS MEANS THERE HAS NOT BEEN SEXISM IN THIS CAMPAIGN OR THAT IT HASN'T AFFECTED HILLARY'S CHANCES NEGATIVELY. There has, and it did. But Ferraro's arguments are poorly-constructed at best and racist at worst. She is no friend to Democrats right now - which is sad, because she's been a great Democrat in the past. This primary season has made a lot of people stray from their better natures, on both sides.

[Jersey Devil]

23. I have to think Ferraro was sent out there to say those things

Of course there was sexism, but Ferraro is saying Obama is responsible for it, which I think is an awful thing to say when it isn't true.

I just can't accept that someone as politically savvy as Ferraro would go out and say the things she's said without first clearing it with Hillary so I hold Hillary responsible for it. She could easily have disowned Ferraro but said nothing the past few days except to echo her by blaming the media for sexism (carefully avoiding blaming Obama as her surrogate Ferraro did).

[Phillycat]

28. I don't know if I'd go that far.

Ferraro is a pundit on Fox News. She doesn't work for Hillary's campaign and is not a spokesperson for her. I too am disappointed that Hillary hasn't spoken out against Ferraro's comments, but I don't believe she put those words in her mouth.

There have been two or three minor things that Obama's said that could with some stretching be considered sexist, but I don't believe he is a sexist and I've never said he was. The media and many Obama supporters, including quite a few right here on DU, have been the ones tossing around the misogyny.

[Beacool]

12. Why are you surprised?

How many times does her campaign have to say that she's going to stay in it until everyone has had their chance to vote????

[mohc]

13. I think she is in a very difficult position

She has not done well enough to win, but she has done too well to just give up. One has to believe that they are a significantly better choice for the nomination to even run, so from Clinton's perspective the remote chance of winning the nomination are worth any possible damage to Obama's campaign because she believes she is a much better candidate. In poker terms, she is a big underdog but is pot committed at this point (especially appropriate considering the latest FEC filings). She has almost no chance in winning, but she has already put most of the effort in. The returns would be huge for her if she wins, and she really does not have to put forth much more effort.

[Phillycat]

What you say makes a lot of sense.

When will she fold, do you think? Or is she going to play this hand all the way to the convention?

[dionysus]

16. yay. good on ya.

[seaglass]

17. Hillary Clinton is not a quitter. I think it's as plain as that.

The rift in the Democratic party already exists - there should be plenty of time for healing/coming together for those who are interested.

For me, I don't think I'll ever look at the Democratic party in the same way again. Would never vote for McCain but I am thinking seriously of going down to town hall and re-registering as unenrolled. Maybe all those Greens weren't so wrong. I have a lot to think about. :-(

[Phillycat]

18. Well, hell, that's why I supported her!

But it's not about being a quitter. I don't like Obama and I am not happy about voting for him. But he IS, for all intents and purposes, the nominee. How much energy and money is she willing to have all Democrats expend on the primary, when we still have the GE to go? This is a marathon, not a sprint.

I don't believe in the "party rift" thing, 'tho I read about it all the time. I think these candidates, politically, are more alike than different. They are both moderate centrists. This isn't a race between a progressive and moderate as many people like to paint it. This is, in a lot of ways, a race between young and old, black and white, male and female. People are personally invested, beyond their opinions on the issues. And that's why it's gotten so ugly.

Leaving the Democratic party would never be an option for me. Who the hell else am I going to vote for? I was born and raised a Democrat and I'll be one until I die.

[seaglass]

27. I agree the candidates are alike politically, though very different

in style and I don't think the rift is at the leadership level, politicians are used to having all kinds of crap thrown at them and usually kiss and makeup. I expect the same to happen between Clinton and Obama.

I have always been a Dem (in spirit/votes for the first 24 years - didn't register with the party til 2000 - I'm not much of a joiner :-)) but this primary has gotten beyond ugly and I have some thinking to do - I have that luxury because of where I live.

Maybe this is how everyone feels the first time they have to hold their nose to vote for a candidate :shrug:

[Phillycat]

30. Oh, I think so. Yes it sucks.

It sucks even more because it feels like we're rewarding the Obama supporters for their craptastic behavior. But I try to remember that the raving loons here on DU and in the real world probably don't represent the average Obama supporter, and it's not fair to assume they represent Obama either. I still hold out a tiny hope that he will surprise me, in a good way, because I do know some good, decent people who support him and they must see SOMETHING I don't. Regardless, I'm voting for him, so in the end it doesn't matter much, does it?


:hug:

[TBF]

43. You are right - and I think most of DU agrees with you. A few people

have taken it too personally, and there will be those out there who will only vote for the woman, the black candidate, or the white male (which we will see more of in the fall). I agree that they are both moderates, unlike Senator McCain who only plays one when he thinks it will help him.

There is so much at stake in this election, thank you for being willing to stand up and say all this so publicly.


:toast:

[tridim]

19. At this point, it's not about quitting

It's about conceding the nomination to the winner.

[ecstatic]

22. There's nothing for her to quit. She lost. The next step

is a classy acknowledgment of that loss in a thoughtful concession speech. That's how adults are supposed to handle such situations.

[TahitiNut]

24. George Bush is not a quitter. That's why he's "staying the course" in Iraq.

:eyes:

[seaglass]

31. So? Are you trying to say anyone who doesn't quit is like George Bush?

Don't we often admire people who persevere when the odds are against them? I know I do.

[Phillycat]

34. You're not helping.

Do you always have to be so nasty? This person is having her first experience with holding her nose to vote for a candidate she doesn't like, and she's coming to terms with that. Try to remember back before your heart was black and crispy. Remember what that felt like? Yeah, it sucks. Back off.

[Jersey Devil]

25. Perhaps, but she is also proving she is not a realist and a narcissist

by morphing herself into Don Quixote (or maybe Sancho Panza) at the expense of the party.

[seaglass]

35. How is it at the expense of the party? The damage is done. n/t

[ladeyday]

20. She can't quit now

she vowed to have "all votes count" as if it was a GE. Her latest claims of the MSM, then sexism (while claiming thre's been "no racism") are the latest in her tryig to spin the bottle & hoping that she doesn't end up point at herself.

[BzaDem]

29. More Obama supporter nonsense calling for a 50-state strategy as long as HRC is not involved.

[Phillycat]

32. Uh, no. I'm a Hillary supporter and I have been since Edwards dropped out.

Feel free to search every one of my posts. I am a staunch supporter. This race is over and it's time for us all to stop hating one another.

[BzaDem]

46. I agree.

I don't buy into this 50 state strategy as much as most people here, so I don't personally care as much. I am all for party unity, and the only reason I don't think Clinton should drop out yet is that I think it might damage party unity if people think she was forced out in any way.

But I still find it incredibly hypocritcal that most of the people on this board keep espousing a 50-state strategy as our party's savior, while simultaneously calling for Clinton to get out (ending what might have been the first 50 state primary campaign in decades).

[Greyskye]

36. I think she'll stay in until all the primaries are over.

And I can deal with that. She's promised her supporters that she'd be in it until all the votes are counted (except for caucus states, but let's not go there).

I'm hoping that she'll end it on a classy note, and start unifying her base with Obama. My fear is that she will try to win the nomination at the convention through superdelegates.

If that happens, McCain is going to be McHappy. :(

[Clear Blue Sky]

37. Can't the super delegates still give it to her?

Not likely but possible. They can still change their previous commitments.

[Phillycat]

44. They could, yes.

I find it highly unlikely.

[Clear Blue Sky]

47. But she must be holding out hope for this possibility, however remote.

[Phillycat]

49. I'm not sure.

Honestly, I'm not sure what her motivation is at this point. There are several possibilities:

1. She truly wants every primary voter to have a choice and make their vote count.
2. She's worked out some deal with party leaders that we don't know bout yet.
3. She actually does just need the money.
4. She actually does plan to take this to the convention.
5. She's trying for party unity by making it clear that no one was "forced out" early.

I truly, truly hope 3 and 4 do NOT become a reality.

[Clear Blue Sky]

51. All reasonable options.

But #1 and #5 suggest a degree of altruism that I don't think she is capable of. I favor #2 and #4.

The Clinton machine is strong with far reaching tentacles. Who knows what wheeling and dealing is going on behind the scenes?

[Independent-Voter]

38. She's $20 in debt, and needs her useful idiots to continue to donate $$$ to bail her out

It's really that simple.

[PBS Poll-435]

39. Thank GOD it is only twenty bucks.

Phew!

[Independent-Voter]

42. Hell - I'd throw her some walking cash if it was only $20! My bad.

[grantcart]

40. I think that there are a lot of surprised people today.

[ShortnFiery]

45. Not me. HRC and Bill are going *all the way.* There must be SOMETHING that needs covering up

or they've been so spoiled by power and privilege for so long that they've DELUDED themselves into believing that they are ENTITLED to the WH.

But I was not surprised.

HRC will either score the democratic party nomination or DESTROY IT (and the Clinton legacy) in a craven attempt to possess the Presidency of The United States. :wow:

[ZinZen]

48. I think Hillary has every right to stay in

until the race is over. I may have not agreed with some of her political tactics in the past but she has fought very hard and is not a marginal nominee as Huckabee who stayed in until McBush won the delegate count. As long as she is not being negative she has a right to stay in until the last state votes.

BTW, I am an Obama supporter who is very tired of making negative comments about Hillary. I'm through.

[Phillycat]

50. Of course she has every right.

And I appreciate your measured tone. She has every right to stay in. I just worry about the toll it's taking on the party, both energy-wise and money-wise. We need to make it through the GE after this is over. I worry about election fatigue on the part of people who aren't quite as invested in the political process as we are on DU. :D

:toast: to less negativity from everyone.

[barack the house]

52. It's good to hear. The longer she goes the more she is draining people for no reason...

We Obama supporters never meant Hillary supporters any ill will. Her numbers just didn't add up so is taking donations on false pretenses. Which is slightly naughty.

[bain_sidhe]

53. Whatever her reasons

I'm glad that the voters, especially women voters, in the last three contests will get the chance to vote for her (if they want to, of course). Even if she's not going to win, just pulling the lever for the first female candidate to have a real shot at the Presidency is a thrill. Especially in contests that have never mattered before.

So, as a non-emotionally involved, "kool aid free" Obama supporter, I'm good with her staying in till the last state has a chance to vote.

[Shakespeare]

54. You rock.

I appreciate very much what you've said, and the "bigness" required to say it. You get my total respect for that.

:hi: :pals:

[DevonRex]

55. What a marvelous person you are!

:grouphug:

[rox63]

56. I've been an Obama supporter since January, but I never used to bear the Clintons any ill will

In fact, when Bill Clinton won the presidency in '92, I remember skipping around the Brighton area of Boston, singing "We've got a pro-choice President, We've got a pro-choice President." People thought I was kinda whacked when I did that. But if Hillary doesn't end or suspend her campaign by 6/4/08 (after all the primaries and caucuses, and after the DNC has decided what to do about MI and FL), I will have to assume that her personal ambition and ego are more important to her than saving the country from McBush. And that would be a sad, sad day. :(