Hillary goes back to mocking Obama and discounting the states he won

[ProSense]

Hillary's campaign in February:

February 18, 2008

'Second-class delegates'

A co-chairman of Hillary's Michigan campaign and has a line that's sure to drive a whole bunch of red state governors up the wall:

"Superdelegates are not second-class delegates," says Joel Ferguson, who will be a superdelegate if Michigan is seated. "The real second-class delegates are the delegates that are picked in red-state caucuses that are never going to vote Democratic."

Video of Hillary mocking Obama: The skies will open, the light will come down, celestial choirs will be singing and everyone will know we should do the right thing and the world will be perfect


Hillary today:

She said Monday that she is the "more progressive candidate" and dismissed the hype surrounding Obama that results in the large crowds like the record rally of an estimated 65,000 he drew in Portland on Sunday afternoon.

Clinton said Obama, who has refused to debate her since they last faced off just before the Pennsylvania primary last month, would "rather just talk to giant crowds than have questions asked."

Later, while speaking to several hundred people in a high school gymnasium, Clinton picked up her campaign's argument that Obama's victories in states that had caucuses instead of primaries are somehow less significant because turnout was lower.

Clinton also revived her pitch that many of the states where he has beaten her, like Alaska, Idaho and Utah, matter less because they would not be competitive for Democrats in November. Anybody "who's really analyzing this" should come to the same conclusions, she said.

link

(emphasis added)

[anonymous171]

1. Ironic how Hillary's last "hope" lies in two red states, KY and WV.

[Cant trust em]

9. It's the "whatever works for the next 5 minutes" strategy. NT

[hokies4ever]

15. Ain't that the truth!

No political foresight whatsoever.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

21. When will be done with this bullshit?! VP my ass.

[marshall]

74. She's got to get her licks in now while she can legitimately oppose him

Once he is the nominee she will have to go into stealth mode--undermining his campaign in coded language and other subterfuge--so that she will have a shot in 2012 after four years of a failed McCain presidency.

[Toucano]

16. West Virginia is not a red state.

Please stop saying that.

"West Virginia is currently considered a swing state. At the state level, its politics are largely dominated by the Democratic Party, with Democrats currently holding the governorship, both senate seats, two of three house seats and both houses of the state legislature. West Virginia also has a very strong tradition of union membership. In the Republican landslide of 1988, it was one of only ten states, and the only southern state, to give its electoral votes to Michael Dukakis, and supported Bill Clinton by large margins in both 1992 and 1996."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_virginia#Politics

[anonymous171]

20. Went red for Bush twice.

I'd assume that means they vote for fear and "values" (aka gay people suck.)

[Toucano]

Persistent ignorance is such an ugly thing.

West Virginia is very pro-life, but so are some Democrats.

If you hope to win only the electoral votes of the states that treat gay people equally, prepare to get 67 electoral votes.

[anonymous171]

33. What I'm saying is that until the nation changes WV won't go blue.

All the repugs have to do is play the pro-life card and WV is theirs.

[Toucano]

48. What you're saying is, you have an idea in your head and facts don't matter.

I'm not trying to be rude, but you do seem to want to be obtuse.

1996 - Clinton v. Dole - 52, 37
1992 - Clinton v. Bush - 48, 35
1988 - Dukakis v. Bush - 52, 47

Clinton was not pro life.
Dukakis was not pro life.

West Virginia is a swing state. Regardless of who you like in the primary, West Virginia is hardly a red state.

Large union membership.

Democratic governor, two democratic U.S. senators and a 2/3 Democratic majority in the state legislature.

This is the definition of a swing state.

[anonymous171]

54. What were the big/wedge issues that year?

[Toucano]

In 1988 when they went for Dukakis-Ferraro?

When they voted for the Massachusetts liberal with a revolving door prison system who would not seek the death penalty for the rape and murder of his wife, and the brash, harsh tongued New York elitist? Maybe it was "security".

Or are you referring to 2004 when they elected a Democratic governor who campaigned for safer mines and access to health care and better schools? Maybe the wedge issue was "family values"?


No matter.


You are prejudiced and persistent in your ignorance, and as such, I question your Democratic credentials.

[sniffa]

86. Sen Bentsen had a sex change and changed his name?

[Toucano]

92. Poor Lloyd!

Oh, is my face red. How confused I got! LOL!

Thanks.

[reggie the dog]

62. No way.

I have faith that the mountains will vote blue in 2008 no matter who the nominee is. THE NOMINEE JUST HAS TO CAMPAIGN THERE!!!!!

The nominee just has to point out that US tax dollars should go to help building schools for poor miners kids instead of destroying and rebuilding other countries.

[RoseMead]

36. Not that it will matter, but here ya go:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=5980416

[anonymous171]

39. It's red as we know it. Reagan democrats who vote on values instead of issues.

Bush does really well with those types.

[RoseMead]

47. No, it's not that simple

How does voting Democratic in six out of the last 10 elections (or three of the last five, if you want more recent history) qualify as "red"?

Also, on the state and local level, it's blue as the eye can see.

[anonymous171]

49. Why did they vote for Bush twice? That's my question.

And what's to stop them from voting for a repug again unless our candidate is pro-life?

[RoseMead]

64. You're hung up on pro-life

When pro-life isn't the issue.

Most, West Virginians, as a group are wary of anyone who seems different from them, whether that difference is based on race, religion, education or whatever. West Virginians voted for Bush the first time because he seemed more like them than Gore. Bush put on the good-ol-boy face, and West Virginians bought it. West Virginia voted for Kerry for the same reason.

Also, West Virginians are attached to their guns, and the party of Bush has convinced them that the Democrats want to take their guns away. West Virginia is also dependent upon the coal industry, and the party of Bush has convinced them that they are friendlier to the coal industry than the Democrats.

So, here's how the Democrats get back to winning West Virginia in presidential elections:

1. Find some way to offer economic hope to the state - life with coal, life after coal, whatever. Find a way to convince people here that they won't be worse off economically when our candidate is in office.

2. Find a way to soothe fears over gun ownership.

3. Find a way to show West Virginia voters that our candidate *is* one of them, as an American who cares about his/her country - including the backward parts. Educate them about the candidate directly, and find ways to bridge the difference gap.

Do these three things, and West Virginia will vote Democratic in the presidential election. Two out of three would probably be enough, just as long as number one is one of them.

[anonymous171]

66. Thankyou for the information.

I admit I was wrong and assumed that WV was just some kind of "hick" state. I apologize.

BUT, what about the increasing number of republicans in that state?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6031033&mesg_id=6031576

[RoseMead]

71. Well, we run several years behind the rest of the country

so I'm tempted to say we're just heading in the same direction the rest of the nation took over the last 20 years, but where the rest of the country may have pulled out of that trend by this point, we haven't yet. :)

I suspect, however, that the truth has more to do with successful GOP propaganda, general lack of education, and some issues where the Democratic platform doesn't appear to mesh well with West Virginians' concerns.

For example, the Democratic party is by far the more environmentally conscious party. Which is good, it's one of the reasons I'm a Democrat. But when that commitment to the environment turns into a need to further regulate and/or restrict coal production, now it's a problem for West Virginia. Find a way to sell the idea that the Democrats can help WV economically with environmentally sound policies, however, and that problem will be solved.

So again, education is a key (not just school education, but education of the voters by the party). The GOP have done a good job of "educating" some West Virginians over the past 20 years. The Democrats need to move more strongly in that direction, by showing people here the truth in terms they can identify with. This will require actually interacting with people here more frequently than a few times every 4 years, however.

ed for spelling

[Raineyb]

94. Based on that video posted last week I'd say several decades

It looks like we're going to have a hard time getting past the racist vote. Exactly how are we supposed to do that? Obama can't change his skin color.

Regards

[Toucano]

67. Forget it, RoseM

Some people have a very narrow idea of what a Democrat is and even shorter memories.

They've forgotten that at it's core, the Democratic party is about people. They've swallowed the right-wing notion that if you don't pass my litmus test, you must be against me. Some of them prefer to see the shadows rather than the light.

They are as ignorant and bigoted as the people they claim to oppose.

[anonymous171]

68. Don't be so quick to write me off.

See post #66. I had a false impression of the state and for that I apologize.

[Toucano]

70. Okay. You can stay.

:)

[RoseMead]

72. And that was nice of you. Thanks :) nt

[RoseMead]

75. "They've forgotten that at it's core, the Democratic party is about people."

It's hard to fight the monster without becoming the monster, sometimes. And in my lifetime, the neocon GOP has definitely seemed the thing that would not die. lol I'm hoping Obama is going to put a stake through its rotten heart, though.

And West Virginia is a wierdo state politically and culturally. I don't blame people for having incorrect ideas about us, especially when they're willing to change those views when presented with correct information.

[skipos]

53. Compared to the national popular vote, WV has become a red sate

in *presidential* elections. Take a look at the partisan voting index for the last few elections

WV '88: 12.46% Democratic
WV '92: 7.46% Democratic
WV '96: 6.21% Democratic
WV '00: 6.84% Republican
WV '04: 10.40% Republican

It has been trending less blue and more red for at least 20 years.

[macracan]

63. West Virginia is a RED state

when it comes to presidential elections. They do vote D for local and congressional/senatorial elections, but for presidential elections they go R. Some guy from WV explained to me the mindset of voters there. If they didn't vote D locally they'd be bankrupt and homeless. They depend on state subsidies. But they try to balance that vote out by voting 'right' (pun intended) in the presidential.

[cali]

2. ack. Hilly is about to deservedly have her ass handed to her.

poor, poor thing.

[BlooInBloo]

Well you stick with what wins. Duh.

[ORDagnabbit]

3. she is an ass. n/t

[mcctatas]

4. It's starting to get tiresome...

and by that, I mean it has been for weeks :puke:

[ErinBerin84]

5. lol

"Enough with the SPEECHES and the RALLIES!" And what the hell is it with the "second class delegates"? Is that going to be the new talking point?

[Arugula Latte]

6. Please let this thing be over soon. I'm so tired of being disgusted with Hillary. nt

[dempartisan23]

7. clinton is a bacstabbing piece of crap

i despise that vile woman. she wants to destroy our chance in november. she is nothing to me and i hope she loses her seat in new york.

[Egnever]

12. ouch

[dempartisan23]

35. am i wrong?

[Nightjock]

41. she has lost

this New Yorkers vote and many others too.

[Warren DeMontague]

8. Yeah! He draws giant crowds! Nyah!

She's way far gone.

[grytpype]

59. Yeah, just look at that coward!

How come he keeps addressing huge enthusiastic crowds of voters?????


Huh????


It's because he's AFRAID OF HILLARY!!!!! and her awesomeness!!!

[DefenseLawyer]

10. It rained here today

Oh wait, no one cares about that either.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

22. Actually, that's more interesting to me than anything Hillary has to say.

[Barack_America]

42. And it's probably true. n/t

[AllentownJake]

Ironic

Her justification for staying in the race are the states of Montana, South Dakota, and Kentucky. Which by her metric don't count anyway.

Oh yeah and Puerto Rico which can't vote in the GE.

I hope we spike the football hard tommorow.

[dancingme]

11. Who cares anymore?

She's a cartoon character now.

[Kaylee]

13. ARRRGHHHH!

*runs around pulling hair out*....Gesh, what color is the sky in her reality? Nope...not going to let her delusions get to me.

[TBF]

18. It's not there in her reality because she obliterated it. The woman is insane.

[Lerkfish]

14. "rather just talk to giant crowds ...."

LOL.

[EnviroBat]

17. "Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary HillaryHillary"!!!!

[Kaylee]

19. Oh my.....

:rofl:

[butterfly77]

23. You both are cracking me up...

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[EnviroBat]

30. Yup, that's my job!

:hi:

[RaleighNCDUer]

37. Is that Rush doing his Michael J Fox impression in drag? nt

[burythehatchet]

76. Is that her base?

[dipsydoodle]

24. Embarrassment

causes people to do lots of odd things.

[book_worm]

25. she has run a pathetic campaign.

[ProSense]

29. Wonder what her argument will be on June 4 when there are no more pledged delegates and

she is still 200 delegates short of 2025?

Chances are by that time the superdelegates still uncommitted will be less than 200.

Will she concede or will she go running around the country saying: I can win this, it's not over.

[Cali_Democrat]

26. Shame on you Barack Obama!! Enough with the big rallies and the speeches!!!

She thinks that she's his mother.

[rox63]

27. Someone had better tell the voters of KY that Camp HRC thinks their delegates are "second-class"

There's still time to change their minds and vote for Obama before tomorrow.

[rucky]

28. Hillary Map-th:

When Hillary wins a red state, it means she'll win that state in the GE
When Obama wins a red state, it means nothing - they would just vote Republican anyways.

When Hillary beats Obama in a blue state, it means she'd win & Obama will lose that state in the GE
When Obama beats Hillary in a blue state, it's because of the large black population in the urban areas.

Caucuses don't count, except for Nevada.

[Diane R]

31. As an act of love, her friends & family need to get her off the stage. She's embarrassing herself.

[Fredda Weinberg]

32. Not to me. She's right n/t

[muryan]

82. Yea and we all know that Obama is going to lose Cal, NY, etc

She is relying on the same electoral map that gave us 8 years of bush. Obama can carry the great lake states and put others in play where she doesnt stand a chance.

[mohc]

34. How does one swing an overwhelming number of superdelegates to their side

When the basis of your argument is the states that most of these superdelegates come from do not matter?

[frylock]

38. puppet show and hillary..

Later, while speaking to several hundred people in a high school gymnasium, Clinton picked up her campaign's argument that Obama's victories in states that had caucuses instead of primaries are somehow less significant because turnout was lower.

[mystieus]

40. She needs to give it a break.

[TexasObserver]

43. It's going to take two orderlies, a net, a strait jacket, and a padded ambulance

... to get Hillary to admit the race is OVER.

[Heather MC]

44. Wow seriously desperate pathetic attempt to get the cameras pointed in her direction one last time

This is sad she is coming off like a bratty 6 year old screaming for attention so he blurts out his mother's age will doing a cartwheel down the isle in church

look at me, over here, I am still in the race, hey look at me!!!

She is sunk and she knows it!

[Chulanowa]

45. Her descent into political worthlessness is painful to see

Sad that so many otherwise intelligent and reasonable Democrats seem hell-bent on getting sucked down with the U.S.S. Clinton's undertow, too.

Hillary supporters, please look at what your candidate just said. "Red" states - possibly including the states many of you call home, do not matter. The clinton campaign is perfectly willing to back off from the Republicans, not even trying to change the political map. Your choice of candidate wants the Democratic party holes up in New England and California and leave thew rest to the pukes.

This is not a healthy strategy for our party, not in the least.

[NatBurner]

46. she just can't help it

tourrete's, maybe?

[jenmito]

50. And she now says she's ahead in the popular vote. She doesn't even clarify it anymore by saying

that's if you count MI and FL while NOT counting ANY caucus states. I really think the SDs will get tired of this real quickly and make Obama the nominee after tomorrow.

[Bensthename]

51. Hillary is a second class pitiful joke..

She makes me fucking sick.. What a disgrace to the dem party.. :puke:

[grytpype]

52. The only remaining question is, JUST HOW NUTS IS SHE?

[bigtree]

55. that's petty stuff. Obama is still jibing Clinton. This is a campaign.

give it a rest.

[jenmito]

60. She's dissing lots of Americans and hurting the soon-to-be nominee.

She should stop with the fuzzy math and attacks.

[ProSense]

65. Really? Obama is saying Hillary's states don't count?

What's petty: the OP or the BS Hillary continues to spew?

"This is a campaign...give it a rest."

It was a campaign, but the game is over. Time for Hillary to "give it a rest."

[bigtree]

77. this is petty stuff

and the 'game' is certainly NOT over. Give it a few weeks.

And, give this shit a rest.

[jenmito]

79. Again-She's dissing lots of Americans and hurting the soon-to-be nominee.

She should stop with the fuzzy math and attacks.

[bigtree]

80. she may be dissing you. I'm not feeling it.

overblown nonsense. Hysterical.

[jenmito]

81. Not me. I don't live in an "unimportant caucus state" or any other state that she disses...

I live in NY. I can't wait 'til she runs again for the Senate.

[shellgame26]

101. same here

Let me tell you everyone I've spoken to here says she's gone gone gone!

[ProSense]

83. No the game is over. Period. Send a "give this shit a rest" memo to Hillary's camp. n/t

[jenmito]

84. Exactly.

:toast:

[kid a]

98. I went to three live Obama events yesterday in MT - He mentioned her three times all day.

One at each stop to praise her.

[jgraz]

56. My considered response is: FUCK HER.

Soooo sick of this horrid excuse for a human being.

[VotesForWomen]

57. why don't you tell us how much red states count in Nov...oh yeah, they count for ZERO. i live in SD

and i am not 'outraged' to hear dems say that we 'don't count...' because we don't. why should the dem party care who SD wants for the nominee? we haven't gone blue in ages and we won't be doing it in 2008.

[Heathen57]

87. Since Dr. Dean's 50 state plan

our state could possibly become in contention this year. We won the governorship, and both state houses in 2006. Clinton was only interested in the big states and considered us not worth the effort. That is why Obama won by the big margin he did.

I keep hearing how people are tired of the GOP's way of doing things and even in this heavily repub. county, there are many more Obama (and some Hillary) signs. I have yet to see a McCain sign.

To turn a state blue, you have to work at it. If you ignore them, like Hillary (and the DLC) does, they have no reason to change.

[QC]

97. Sorry, it's the 48 State Plan now. n/t

[EFerrari]

58. I'm really sorry for my DU friends who are disappointed as I was

when John dropped out.

But the more I get to know Clinton, the more I dislike her.

[seabeyond]

61. but but but we are suppose to be nice to hillary and hers..... though she and they

can do and say whatever they like with such glee

[PaulaFarrell]

69. I thought we were doing unity now

:(

[ShortnFiery]

73. I TOLD YOU SO! Last week she was so NICE, now the "mad HRC" has rose up again.

One thing with HRC, you never know "which personality" she'll portray from day to day. :crazy:

[my3boyz]

78. She is crazy! She seriously has multiple personalities or something. Which Hillary will emerge

tomorrow?

[charlie]

85. Seeing how fast

she ran for boilermakers and guns after "Bitter", you'd better pray she doesn't decide the phone sex union is a vote worth pursuing.

[ProSense]

96. Last week she was being portrayed as nice. That

crazy bloggers call happened last week.

[NotThisTime]

88. The Sky's will Open..... Line lost me FOR FREAKING EVER - SHE CAN GO TO HELL

"The skies will open, the light will come down, celestial choirs will be singing and everyone will know we should do the right thing and the world will be perfect"

Yeh, I remember she was in Providence RI spouting that shit..... she was dead in my book from that moment forward

[ProSense]

89. Losing the delegate battle, Hillary

resorts to lying about the popular vote (posted on her campaign site)

[ZinZen]

90. Well, she is not getting the media attention

anymore. She is got to do something over the top.

[KoKo]

91. Really? That's shocking...the Pundits haven't mentioned that one. n/t

[Lord Helmet]

93. Hilary is low class

[crimsonblue]

95. "real analysts"

would be the first to say that polling right now is not indicative of the GE result. Just ask Dukakis how he felt in August '88. By no means is Hillary more progressive than Obama. Progressives do not support NAFTA, and have their surrogates speak to Canada about NAFTA in official capacities, and then project their own stupidity onto their opponent. Progressives do not support illegal wars. Progressives do not demonize members of their own party for political gain. Progressives do not belittle entire states. Progressives do not embrace the immoral politics of right wing extremists. Progressives do not unabashedly comment for the obliteration of sovereign countries. Progressives do not intentionally inject racism into election contests. Progressives do not pursue quixotic dreams, without regard to their country. Progressives do not hire as critical campaign strategists people that lobby for goals directly contradicting progressive values. Progressives do not ask for over $1,000,000,000 in earmarks in a fiscal year in order to garner favor with constituent-lobbyists. As a red state Democrat, all I can say is this: Fuck You, Hillary.

[QC]

99. Neither one of the candidates is progressive.

They are corporate centrists with nearly identical records. It's sad--but also funny in a way--to see people present this election as Eugene Debs vs. Benito Mussolini when it's just another case of the people having to choose between two handmaidens of Wall Street.

[Rose Siding]

100. That's so stupid. He gets giant crowds AND does town halls and pressers

What a stupid thing for her to say. She's just hoping Americans are dumb enough not to look past the biggest headlines. The envy must be eating her alive.