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Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
RBInMaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-18-08 08:08 AM
Original message
I know many of you have read articles on how Hillary, the MUCH better known candidate with the MUCH deeper party establishment machine support ended up losing this primary (without a miracle the math says it's over - and she and her team know it). Here's how it happened:

1) Her narrative was that she was the "inevitable" candidate with "experience". - Problem was, MANY the Dem base wanted the "change" candidate. Obama offered that.

2) She mismanaged her money and relied too heavily on a smaller number of old school large donors instead of MANY small internet donors, so got into financial trouble. Not good.

3) She planned to wrap up big states on Super Tuesday and lock it up early. Instead, Obama played EVERYWHERE EARLY, won smaller and medium states and caucus states by large margins, kept it very close, and took it past Super Tuesday with a lot of momentum.

4) Both Bill and Hill pissed off way too many African Americans AND Obama showed them he could win in white states, so he took the AA base away from the Clintons.

5) Obama tweaked his message and strategy as needed but has been relatively steady in his message and narrative, whereas Hillary has continued to re-invent herself. In doing so she went VERY negative which solidified and emboldened Obama supporters and donors and put a bad taste in the mouth of MANY superdelegates and other party leaders. (Not a good idea Hillary.)

6) Obama put together an excellent team that has worked very well together, and they have organized in a way the likes we haven't seen EVER in American politics. Hillary's team, on the other hand, was riddled with infighting from the beginning, and she had to fire people and re-structure her team.

In short, the Obama team out-organized and out-strategized the old school team of McAuliffe/Wolfson.
Hillary lost this one fair and square. Hillary and her supporters need to accept it and learn from it. It should tell Hillary supporters that in Obama we have a candidate that damn well knows how to run a campaign, the FIRST test of good leadership we have seen from each candidate. He scored higher on that test. Think about it. He came out of nowhere and defeated what was perhaps the most skilled and experienced Democratic political machine in the history of Democratic politics in America. This speaks volumes. Get onboard HillFOLKS and come in for the big win in November ! Hillary may be VP, or she would certainly make a great cabinet member. Let's unite now and kick some major RePUKElican ass in November !!
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tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-18-08 08:14 AM
Response to Original message
1. Hillary is a flawed candidate with a closet full of ammunition for the repukes.
The main reason she lost is her lack of leadership ability and her track record in the Senate.

Hill and Bill with their "centrist" bullshitting are not the people to lead this country forward.
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-18-08 08:15 AM
Response to Original message
2. Yeah, but it was easy for Obama - he actually had a Base...
Try taking the Democratic nomination when all you have is the Corporate Media, big donors and the Republican Party behind you.
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Ioo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-18-08 08:22 AM
Response to Original message
3. Well said, so can she please drop out so we can fight McCain now...
I mean come on!
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jbm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-18-08 08:26 AM
Response to Original message
4. Hillary lost because the media loved Obama, and..
Ted Kennedy had a pissing contest with Bill Clinton. Also, Obama appears to be the luckiest man on earth. That's compounded by the fact that he has the talent and intelligence to take advantage of his luck. Also, racism and sexism are still plentiful in this country, but racism is acknowledged, and sexism slides by under the wire.

The Democrats aren't going to come together this year. Some areas of the country will maybe still go Dem, but a lot of them will concede the presidential race and work on the house, senate, state, and local races. Part of that will be because of race. We're still not a perfect country. Part of it will be pragmatic-the 'experience' issue will carry a lot of weight.

The biggest chunk of it will be because the Hillary supporters are not going to get over the trashing of their candidate this easily. They feel betrayed by the Democratic party, and phrases intended to unite aren't going to make any difference. When people feel a relationship has become hurtful to them, some stay, but many walk away. It's happened before. I'm sure people will argue, "But look at all the new registered voters"! There won't be enough of those new register voters who show up and vote Dem for the GE to offset the missing people who have previously been a huge part of the base of the Democratic party. There is a lesson to be learned here, but I doubt we'll begin to really understand that until after November.
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-18-08 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Sorry, but I have no sympathy. My candidate lost too, thanks to the media.
But I realize that this is bigger than my personal desires, and electing a democratic president is more important than my personal pity party because my guy didn't get it.

I have no sympathy for you -- who would want to keep our troops in Iraq indefinitely and stall progress on UHC.

Fuck your pity party.
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roseBudd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-18-08 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Outside of lefty blogs and forums this issue isn't even on the radar of
the millions of people who if we are lucky will break 60% of eligible voters in turnout. I can tell you none of the low info uneducated whites I am able to eavesdrop on at work as I remain a bug on the wall of my cube has said one word about HRC or Obama since the Ohio primary. These low info voters are not following national news, much less international news.

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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-18-08 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. Strongly disagree. The media was slobbering over Hillary Clinton for
Edited on Sun May-18-08 08:46 AM by Old Crusoe
many, many months at the deliberate and obvious expense of all other possible Democratic candidates.

There is no argument to be made that Bill Richardson, Joe Biden, John Edwards, Barack Obama, Mark Warner, Evan Bayh, Tom Vilsack, Mike Gravel, Chris Dodd, and Dennis Kucinich enjoyed favorable media coverage inasmuch as they enjoyed almost no media coverage at all.

The media ignored every one of them and for many, many months had Hillary Clinton on the screen and in print media 24/7. She enjoyed the built-in advantage of celebrity from the very beginning. National polling reflected this emphasis. She led in all polling for the entire calendar year 2007 up to Christmas Eve and by substantial margins.

Her cruise boat took a couple torpedoes in Iowa. Obama and Edwards both defeated here there. Her win in New Hampshire was thread-bare. She was destroyed in South Carolina. After Feb. 5th she had no plan in place -- none -- to even contest the remaining states.

I believe Democrats will come together this year. That's how the game is played. McCain is a monster. We'll rally as a team to defeat him.
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earthlover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-18-08 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #4
11. " because the Hillary supporters are not going to get over the trashing of their candidate..."
...this easily"

I'm sorry, but you seem to be projecting.

It has been Hillary's campaign that has been throwing the kitchen sink at Obama. Obama has, by contrast, been quite reserved and civil towards Hillary and has not responded in kind.

While it is true that some of Obama's supporters have trashed Hillary on DU, the same can be said for some of Hillary's supporters. It is really stupid to base one's conclusions about a candidate by his/her DU supporters anyway. Pretty silly really.

I predict that things will unite before the convention. There will be a small group of disenchanted folks who just can't get over that their preferred candidate did not get nominated. There will also be some folks who hate Obama (for what ever reason, race among them) and just cannot vote for him. However, Obama will have a united party, and will reach out to independents to more than make up for the "turn tail and run Democrats" who run into their corner and pout instead of fighting against McCain.
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-18-08 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #4
13. wow. picking on Kennedy, the press... its always someone else's fault.
and threatening to not vote democratic only proves what you really are: republican.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-18-08 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #4
14. Reverend Wright 24/7 for 3 weeks straight....
Edited on Sun May-18-08 10:23 AM by stillcool47
"media love"? I only speak for myself, but here's some trashing of a candidate that I will not get over.

December 10, 2007
Third Clinton Volunteer Knew Of Smear E-Mail

A third volunteer for Hillary Clinton's campaign was aware of a propaganda e-mail alleging that Barack Obama is a Muslim who plans on "destroying the U.S. from the inside out. "Let us all remain alert concerning Obama's expected presidential Candidacy," the email reads. "Please forward to everyone you know. The Muslims have said they Plan on destroying the U.S. from the inside out, what better way to start than at The highest level."

Two Clinton volunteers, Linda Olson and Judy Rose, have already been asked to resign from the campaign for their roles in forwarding the e-mail. The AP reported yesterday that Olson, a volunteer coordinator in Iowa County, sent a version of the e-mail to 11 people, including Ben Young, a regional field director for Chris Dodd's campaign. Young passed it on to the AP.

Kerrey Apologizes to Obama Over Remark
Kerrey's mention of Obama's middle name and his Muslim roots raised eyebrows because they are also used as part of a smear campaign on the Internet that falsely suggests Obama is a Muslim who wants to bring jihad to the United States.
Obama is a Christian.
The Clinton campaign has already fired two volunteer county coordinators in Iowa for forwarding hoax e-mails with the debunked claim. Last week, a national Clinton campaign co-chairman resigned for raising questions about whether Obama's teenage drug use could be used against him, so Kerrey's comments raised questions about whether the Clinton campaign might be using another high-profile surrogate to smear Obama.

Clinton Co-Chair Resigns Over Obama Drug Remark
Dec. 13, 2007
Bill Shaheen, the Clinton campaign's New Hampshire co-chair, stepped down Thursday one day after publicly raising the issue of the youthful drug use of her chief opponent, Sen. Barack Obama, D-Illinois

Shaheen, the husband of a former New Hampshire governor and an influential Democrat, was a constant presence by Clinton's side whenever she campaigned in the Granite State, where recent polls have her and Obama in a dead heat for first in that first-in-the-nation primary state.

Hours after the Wednesday release of a CNN/WMUR poll showing Obama in a statistical tie with Clinton for the first time among New Hampshire Democratic voters, Shaheen told The Washington Post that should Obama get the nomination, "one of the things Republicans are certainly going to jump on is his drug use."

Shaheen said Obama having been so open -- as opposed to then-Gov. George W. Bush, who refused to detail his past drug use during his 2000 presidential campaign -- will "open the door to further queries on the matter.
On Sunday, a second Clinton staffer -- Linda Olson, an Iowa County volunteer coordinator, who followed Jones County coordinator Judy Rose -- was asked to resign after reporters discovered she had forwarded an e-mail repeating the scurrilous allegation that Obama, a member of the United Curch of Christ, is a Muslim plant.

Hillary: Sorry for Any Offense Campaign (Bill) Has Caused

Bill Clinton Asks for a Second Chance
By Liz Halloran
Posted February 11, 2008
The morning after his wife, Hillary, was routed in three state contests by Sen. Barack Obama in their dead-heat battle for the Democratic nomination, former President Bill Clinton made his case for her before a packed Sunday service at one of the largest black churches in Washington, D.C.
But first he offered an apology of sorts for racially tinged comments he made about Obama and his candidacy that have triggered a backlash in the black community and among many other Democrats.

Clinton invoked his "worship of a God of second chances" in pronouncing himself glad to be at the Temple of Praise, which claims nearly 15,000 members. His invocation of second chances echoed comments he made early last week at black churches in California, where he campaigned for his wife before that state's
Super Tuesday primary, which she won. -


Source: Newsday
Posted on Sunday, December 16, 2007 at 12:04 pm
Barack Obama Accepts Apology From Hillary Clinton
Washington D.C. 12/15/2007 09:17 AM GMT (FINDITT)

Hillary Clinton went straight to Barack Obama with an apology following a staffer's remarks about any skeletons that may be lurking in Obama's closet, pointing out that she had accepted the staffer's resignation over the disparaging remarks. Obama accepted her at her word, according to his campaign staff, and is moving on without letting it interrupt his campaign plans.

Obama is currently leading the polls in Iowa and New Hampshire, the two early primary states often considered key to the process, according to numbers at, but on a national level Clinton still holds a huge lead. The most recently posted poll results show Obama with 31 percent of the
probable voters in New Hampshire backing him with 29 percent showing support for Clinton.

Clinton Camp Pushes O-Bomber Links: Ignores
Her Own Radical Ties
By: Justin Rood

ABC News - The Hillary Clinton campaign pushed to reporters today stories about Barack Obama and his ties to former members of a radical domestic terrorist group -- but did not note that as president, Clinton's husband pardoned more than a dozen convicted violent radicals, including a member of the same group
mentioned in the Obama stories."Wonder what the Republicans will do with this issue," mused Clinton spokesman Phil Singer in one e-mail to the media, containing a New York Sun article reporting a $200 contribution from William Ayers, a founding member of the 1970s group Weather Underground, to Obama in 2001.
In a separate e-mail, Singer forwarded an article from the Politico newspaper reporting on a 1995 event at a private home that brought Obama together with Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn, another member of the radical group.

Bill Clinton To Apologize At LA Black Churches
Once again, Bill Clinton is ready to repent.
On Sunday the former president is scheduled to visit black churches in South Central Los Angeles, where he's expected to offer a mea culpa to those who "dearly loved him" when he was their president, Rep. Diane Watson (D-Calif.) says. Watson, a member of the Congressional Black Caucus who has endorsed Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.), tells us she'll usher the former president to more than half a dozen churches in
her district where she says he needs to "renew his relationship" with congregants who were turned off by his racially tinged comments in the days leading up to and following the South Carolina primary. (Such as when Clinton compared Sen. Barack Obama's landslide victory to Jesse Jackson's wins in 1984 and 1988.) -

On Meet the Press on Sunday, Hillary Clinton said her campaign had nothing to do with a lawsuit--written about by Nation Editor Katrina vanden Heuvel--that threatens to prevent thousands of workers from voting in the Nevada caucus on Saturday.
Back in March, the Nevada Democratic Party agreed to set up caucus locations on the Vegas strip for low-income shift workers, many of them members of the state's influential Culinary Union, who commute long distances to work and wouldn't be able to get home in time to caucus. It was an uncontroversial idea until the Culinary Union endorsed Barack Obama and the Nevada State Education Association, whose top officials support Clinton, sued to shut down the caucus sites.
The Clinton camp played dumb until yesterday, when President Clinton came out in favor of the lawsuit.
Clinton's comments drew a heated response from D. Taylor, the head of Nevada's Culinary Union, on MSNBC's Hardball. "He is in support of disenfranchising thousands upon thousands of workers, not even just our members," Taylor said of Clinton. "The teachers union is just being used here. We understand that This is the Clinton campaign. They tried to disenfranchise students in Iowa. Now they're trying to
disenfranchise people here in Nevada, who are union members and people of color and women."

Rank-and-file members of Nevada's teachers union also come out against the lawsuit filed by their leadership. "We never thought our union and Senator Clinton would put politics ahead of what's right for our students, but that's exactly what they're doing," the letter stated. "As teachers, and proudmDemocrats, we hope they will drop this undemocratic lawsuit and help all Nevadans caucus, no matter which candidate they support."
The lawsuit's opponents make a persuasive point. Creating obstacles to voting is what the GOP does to Democrats, not what Democrats should be doing to other Democrats.

Clinton adviser steps down after drug use comments
Earlier Thursday, Clinton personally apologized to rival Obama for Shaheen's remarks.

Obama accepted her apology, according to David Axelrod, the top political strategist for the Obama campaign.

January 6, 2008, 5:18 pm
Edwards: No Conscience in Clinton Campaign /
By Julie Bosman
KEENE, N.H. John Edwards angrily took on Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton at two news conferences in a row on Sunday, saying that her campaign doesnt seem to have a conscience.

COMPTON, Calif. (AP) Hillary Rodham Clinton and her campaign tried to mend ties to black voters Thursday when a key supporter apologized to her chief rival, Barack Obama, for comments that hinted at Obama's drug use as a teenager. The candidate herself, meanwhile, praised the Rev. Martin Luther King and promised to assist with the rebirth of this troubled, largely black city.

Bob Johnson, the founder of Black Entertainment Television, apologized
for comments he made at a Clinton campaign rally in South Carolina on Sunday that hinted at Obama's use of drugs as a teenager. -


Clinton Surrogate Compares Obama Ad to Nazi March
Fri Feb 1, 2:23 PM ET
The Nation -- On a media conference call organized by the Hillary Clinton campaign today, Clinton surrogate Len Nichols compared an Obama health care ad to Nazis.
Accusing political opponents of Nazism is an outrageous smear. Raising the specter of a Nazi march in response to a health care mailer that evokes the insurance industry is so absurd, it would be hard to take the attack seriously, were it not launched from a high profile national campaign conference call in this crucial stretch of the presidential race. And political observers know, of course, that the Clinton Campaign regularly arranges opportunities for surrogates to launch these kind of smears, which are later followed up with apologies. (See: Bob Johnson, Bill Shaheen, Bob Kerrey, and Francine Torge, to name the most recent offenders.) For his part, Nichols did not immediately return a call requesting further comment.
Len Nichols, Director of New America's Health Policy Program, stated, "For nearly 17 years I have worked tirelessly to reform our nation's struggling health system. Today my passion overwhelmed me. I chose an analogy that was wholly inappropriate. I am deeply sorry for any offense that my unfortunate comments may have caused.

Hillary Supporter Cuomo: Obama Tried To "Shuck And Jive" With Media
The Hillary campaign might have their own surrogate with foot-in-mouth syndrome who they'll have to deal with. During an appearance yesterday on talk radio -- at almost the same time as Obama co-chair Jesse Jackson Jr. questioned Hillary's tears -- New York Attorney General Andrew Cuomo used some words about Barack Obama that have a very troublesome racial history.

"It's not a TV crazed race. Frankly you can't buy your way into it," Cuomo said, according to Albany Times Union reporter Rick Karlin. "You can't shuck and jive at a press conference," he added. "All those moves you can make with the press don't work when you're in someone's living room."

The phrase "shuck and jive" refers to mischievous blacks behaving innocently in the presence of an authority figure, so as to lie and get out of trouble.

Did Hillary "Play The Gender Card"?
By Greg Sargent - November 2, 2007, 3:51PM

So what really happened here, anyway?
After the debate, Hillary's campaign sent out an email describing her as "one tough woman" and deriding the nature of the "piling on" that had ensued. And the next day, AFSCME president Gerald McEntee endorsed Hillary with remarks that almost certainly had plenty of input from the Hillary campaign: "Six guys against Hillary. Id call that a fair fight. This is one strong woman.:
So just after the debate the campaign didn't argue that she was being attacked because she's a woman. But the campaign clearly did try to strongly emphasize the gender picture here.

Hillary pollster Mark Penn subsequently said in a conference call that the image of six men beating up on Hillary would play well with female voters. And anonymous Clinton advisers told the Associated Press that "there is a clear and long-planned strategy to fend off attacks by accusing her male rivals of
gathering against her."
Though one should approach anonymous stuff with caution, this doesn't seem especially difficult to believe.
Bottom line: As best as we can determine, Hillary never explicitly made the accusation that the men were piling up on her because she's a woman. But you'd have to be very credulous indeed not to believe that the campaign is explicitly trying to emphasize, for various political reasons, the fact that she's a woman getting hammered by a bunch of men. I don't know if that constitutes "playing the gender card" or not -- the exact meaning of the term is unclear, at least to me -- but that's obviously what's going on.

Sunday, November 4, 2007

RON FOURNIER, AP - Clinton's advisers, speaking on condition of anonymity because they are not authorized to discuss internal matters, said there is a clear and long-planned strategy to fend off attacks by accusing her male rivals of gathering against her. The idea is to change the subject while making Clinton a sympathetic figure, especially among female voters who often feel outnumbered and bullied on the job. As one adviser put it, Clinton is not the first presidential candidate to play the "woe-is-me card" but she's the first major female presidential candidate to do it. ...
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sfam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-18-08 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #4
15. You really believe that? So no accountability for Clinton, ey? Really?
You can't be serious. Please tell me this is just a spouting off post. Hillary holds no accountability for her campaign? The refs caused her to lose, where she would have otherwise trounced Obama? You can't really believe that.
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Rene Donating Member (758 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-18-08 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
7. view www.attacktime.inecom to see how the sleazy obama campaign worked in the background
Go Hillary. Take thefight to the convention'll win!
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Labors of Hercules Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-18-08 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. We've seen a lot of sleazy campaigns...
The Clinton's (both of them) were among the worst. Obama's isn't even on the radar. Get real. :eyes:
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KSinTX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-18-08 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #7
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suston96 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-18-08 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
12. Hillary lost because 90% of blacks went for Obama and not enough women went for Hillary...
Women are 53% of the electorate. Blacks are around 30%. White men may have cancelled each other though they may have leaned closer to Obama but not by much.

We can get some hard numbers of actual democraphic turnout (blacks and men and women) and it will be seen that my surmise is correct.

That's an argument for another day. If Obama expects to win in November he will need Hillary voters - most if not all of them.
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