FLORIDA & MICHIGAN!!!!! We can't disenfranchise the voters!!!! FLORIDA & MICHIGAN!!!!!

[AnarchoFreeThinker]

And you call yourselves Democrats!!!! We can't disenfranchise the primary voters in two states who broke the rules. And it doesn't matter if all the candidates and the state parties knew full well those primaries wouldn't count. How can you even consider disenfranchising the VOTERS in two states???? The will of the voters is paramount!!!!

Plus, if we disenfranchise voters in MICHIGAN & FLORIDA, then Clinton will never even have a prayer for being within striking distance of Obama's massive delegate lead so that the superdelegates could swing her way and disenfranchise the voters in 32 states!!!!

[Tommy_Carcetti]

1. I have no idea whether or not you are being sarcastic or not....

...So I'll just say I agree 100% with the statement "How can you even consider disenfranchising the VOTERS in two states????" and leave it at that.

[AnarchoFreeThinker]

4. Translation: Clinton supporters could care less about the 32 states Obama's won, if seating

two other states can possibly lead to overturning the results in those 32.

[rodeodance]

5. Translation. BHO is PANDERING to FL & MI voters today. He PROVED he did NOT care prior to day.

[Occam Bandage]

16. You mean like when Hillary said that MI wouldn't count for anything?

[yodermon]

23. I've *never* seen a Hillary supporter respond to that FACT on this board.

It's a great sub-thread-ender. :toast:

[pompano]

25. OK, maybe she said....

something out of duress? It was probably at 3:00am after a long night of campaigning. She wasn't too long back in country after a few tours of duty in Bosnia (the Tuzla tarmac). Mind you, the last tour of duty she did with a less than sniper savvy green bean team headed up by Gen. Sinbad and Capt. Crow. Great folks, but not the battle hardened, bullet dodging, flak jack sitting, corkscrew landing, vehicle diving escape commando like herself.

Give her a break once in a while, would you?

:sarcasm:

[cliffordu]

28. Blah de blah de blah blah blah. We got it, on to the next, please.

[DrDan]

32. so do you those 32 states will be representative of all 50 in the GE?

[AnarchoFreeThinker]

40. of course not, but they are more representative than FL & Michigan only

Don't fool yourself: she wants two states seated so that she can try to convince supers to overturn the will of two-thirds of the rest of the states. Now, who REALLY favors disenfranchising voters?

[Moochy]

2. Kyle!

:grouphug:

[newmajority]

6. Isn't Kyle too young to vote anyway?

He's still in the 4th grade, isn't he?

[Moochy]

12. Not that Kyle

This one! :)

http://www.chicagotribune.com/topic/sfl-cldanation07citymay07,0,4154214.story
The Kyle Syndrome
Symptoms include narcissism, political naiveté and a temporary leave of one's senses.
The Stephanie Miller Show, the morning show syndicated on local liberal talk-radio station WINZ-AM (940), boasts a recurring character named "Kyle," voiced by Miller's sidekick Jim Ward. Kyle, a prissy, geeky-voiced Hillary Clinton supporter, threatens gloom and doom upon the Democratic Party if Clinton isn't nominated, saying he will vote for McCain to punish the party. The joke, of course, is that anyone could have such a distended, overripe ego that he would expect a political party to kowtow to his wishes, regardless of the party's nominee having legitimately gained the most delegates.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Stephanie_Miller_Show

Kyle - Actually, this is an original character of Jim Ward's, meant to be a composite of callers to the show that say that if their favorite candidate (specifically Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama) does not get the nomination for President, that they are going to either not vote at all or vote for John McCain in protest. Such callers are admonished not to "go all Kyle on them," or to think rationally because of the grave nature of what they're saying. Kyle's voice is a cross between a spoiled child threatening to hold their breath until they get their way and Ward's Rudy Guiliani imitation.

[newmajority]

20. Yeah, I knew that.

Listening to Steph right now, in fact. I just don't know why Jim makes the guy sound like Daffy Duck. :rofl:

[Moochy]

22. I loved the caller "Noel"....

"It's not about Kyle it's about me!!!!" lol that guy was even more Kyle than Kyle.

Stephanie cited this article this morning on the show, I figured more need to know about the Kyle Syndrome :D

[lligrd]

3. Yeah, In Fact, To Make Up For It

we should give them 10 times the number of delegates so they will forgive us for picking on them after breaking the rules. :sarcasm:

[Tommy_Carcetti]

8. Simple question.

Who is "them" in your sentence?

[rodeodance]

9. In fact to make up for Obama's NON-caring behavior, He is pandering to them today

[cliffordu]

31. LOL - Aw, Rodeo, don't take it so hard.....

:rofl: :rofl:

[Birthmark]

10. Ja, das Rulz trumpen sie voting rights.

[Crewleader]

7. The Florida Governor and Republican Legislature

broke the rules not the Florida Democrats...we the people went and cast our votes, make them count! :-)

[Blondbostonian]

13. Horseshit

That's a lie and you know it.

The voting was filmed and the Democratic heads were smiling and laughing and all for having this pass.

I live here in Florida. There's no outrage. There's no protests, save the 50 old ladies I saw over the weekend in Miami that was all Clinton supporters and sponsored by the rich Clinton supporters.

[DrDan]

33. well - let me weigh in as a Florida resident

I think there is outrage - at least in my part of the state. I sense that most voters here feel the DNC sees them as second-class citizens. That seems to be the sense I get from the people I have spoken with and the LTTEs.

[Occam Bandage]

15. The Democrats voted for it unanimously, and turned down DNC-offered compromise offers.

[lligrd]

18. You Should Do Something About That Legislature Then

Your votes haven't counted in quite a while. That is not Obama's fault. Hillary would lose Florida too. Gore couldn't even win, remember!

[DrDan]

35. absolutely!!!!!

the "punishment" goes against the grain of the Party - against the charter of the Party. The rule was inappropriately carried out!

The voters did not break any rules!!!!!!!!!! The voters should not be punished!!!!

[Crewleader]

38. Thank you, Dr. Dan

well said my friend...:applause:

[Hola]

11. It's only paramount

if it's cast in a valid legal election. Florida and Michigan weren't.

[Youphemism]

14. Let's Be Consistent

I have no doubt Florida and Michigan delegates will be seated. Democrats know which side of their bread will hit the floor when they drop it.

However, if Hillary wants people to believe she is sincere, she's going to have to start including the caucus state numbers in her overall vote count estimates.

By not including caucus state votes, she is misrepresenting the truth and disenfranchising millions of voters

[Tesha]

17. *WE* didn't do it; their poorly-advised state committees did it. (NT)

[Tom Rinaldo]

19. Obama won. Clinton knows that.

What is needed now is a gracious way for the National Democratic Party to make nice with any Democratic voters in Florida and Michigan who are upset that their votes weren't included in the decision making process. It is more than a matter of principal in either direction, it is pragmatic politics at the highest level. It effects Obama's chance to get elected in November. Even if one assumes that he can't win Florida, he still needs to be competitive enough there so that McCain can't afford to take it for granted.

Even if Florida and Michigan now got seated exactly the way the primaries in those states voted, it would not be the same as allowing the Democratic Party in those states to escape punishment. Both States got bypassed in all of the media attention paid to this race for President because the candidates did not campaign in them. There literally were economic losses as a result of the non campaign.

There is egg on the face of all the Democrats in those states who went along with moving those primaries up in the first place. And even were Obama to now agree to some face saving formula, Democratic leaders in Michigan and Florida now have no way of knowing whether he would still have done so if the nomination were still on the line and their votes really mattered. So Democrats in other states will need to think long and hard before pulling that type of leap frog trick in the future.

I think the point of the sanctions has been sufficiently made. Now it is time to prioritize winning in November, and resolving the unseated delegations from Florida and Michigan in a manner that at least approximates sentiments in those states is important to doing so.

[razors edge]

21. They need to get over it.

We are all disenfranchised in this rigged by the rich system of elections.

Go to a one day nation wide winner take all popular vote and let the people decide. Anything less than that is not respecting the will of the voters, it is respecting the will of the so called two party system and the sharks in the MSM.

[gorekerrydreamticket]

24. Give FL & MI their superdelegates...That's about all that can be done at this stage...

Just my 2 cents...

[Tommy_Carcetti]

30. Actually, seat the elected delegates, and as a punishment the state's superdelgates will abstain

That way there is no tinkering with the actual popular votes in those states.

[gorekerrydreamticket]

39. The election was already tinkered with. People were told it wouldn't count...

Who's to say how many voters stayed home for that reason and who they would have voted for?

[Butch350]

26. Just How Big of an old boy are you?

Are you dense? Michigan and Florida violated the rules for their primary.

You don't believe in enforcing Laws and Rules?

You must be, "HRC" positive.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

37. Collective punishment?

That's Hi-LAR-ious!

[iamthebandfanman]

27. we arent!

they disenfranchised theirselves!


dont worry, Obama will campaign in michigan and florida heavily for the GE, so your states will get plenty of attention.

[stevenleser]

29. We already know Obama will seat those delegates and let them vote. He wins anyway...

This thread is irrelevant.

[amb123]

34. The MI & FL Dems disenfranchised themselves

The MI & FL Legislatures disenfranchised their own people.

Blame them, not Obama.

[Hepburn]

36. Exactly....

...break the rules? There are consequences. End of discussion.

JMHO