Bill Clinton in WV......he went down some roads that were best left untraveled.

[madfloridian]

Jake Tapper's Political Punch has some statements Bill Clinton has made in West Virginia the last few days. They are very clear in their intent, and Democrats should not do this to each other.

Bill Clinton's Message to Rural America

Tapper speaks of what Bill Clinton is doing...he is doing what a candidate usually does to a person in the other party...not our own.

He can do the math. He must know that it's quite improbable that his wife, Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., will be the Democratic presidential nominee. So what purpose does it serve for him to barnstorm a state like West Virginia and tell rural voters that Obama and his elitist political/media cabal allies are mocking Appalachia?

He's using the kind of language Democrats typically use against Republicans -- as in, stuff you say when you don't want voters to vote for the other guy under any circumstance.

This is tough stuff to walk back from.

I am going to just post the more surprising paragraphs from Tapper's post.

Per ABC News' Sarah Amos, this is what the 42nd president of the United States said Friday in Ripley, W.Va.:

"Hillary is in this race because of people like you and places like this and no matter what they say," Clinton said. "And no matter how much fun they make of your support of her and the fact that working people all over America have stuck with her, she thinks you're as smart as they are. She thinks you've got as much right to have your say as anybody else. And, you know, they make a lot of fun of me because I like to campaign in places like this, they say I have been exiled to rural America, as if that was a problem. I don't know about you, but I'd rather be here than listening to that stuff I have to hear on television, I'd rather be with you. There is a simple reason: You need a president a lot more than those people telling you not to vote for her."

There is just so much wrong with those words. I can not believe he did that.

In Madison, W.Va.:

"It is very interesting, from the very beginning of this race there has been a sharp divide in the vote -- the people who need a president, who need to turn the economy around, who need to restore the middle class, who need to give poor people a chance to work their way into the middle class, who need to give our children a better future, who need to restore our standing in the world and the war in Iraq, but do it in a way that rebuilds our military and stands up for America's security and standing around the world -- they have been for her from the get-go."

Jake Tapper sums it up by saying "His message to these voters: Obama and the media are laughing at you and think you're stupid!!!"

You know what? I think they are wrong that he has that weakness with working class voters. I think it is something they pulled out of thin air, and then they exploited it. They have built it up into an issue to benefit her campaign.

When you say something long enough and keep your campaign going to keep saying it over and over....it finally starts polling as an issue.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

1. The Clintons are playing into the Republicans hands

they need to be stopped NOW!

[VolcanoJen]

21. The last line of that piece is spot on.

"This is what keeps Howard Dean and Nancy Pelosi up at night."

It's heartbreaking that he's doing this.

[K Gardner]

29. Don't forget the other gems he uttered in W Va... I

put them up a couple days ago:

"The great divide in this country is not by race or even income, it's by those who think they are better than everyone else and think they should play by a different set of rules," he said in Clarksburg. "In West Virginia and Arkansas, we know that when we see it."

Clinton said his wife's primary challenger has "got so much money and it's a different electorate. It's a little more upscale and modern ... than those poor people in Texas and Ohio." In Clarksburg, Clinton contrasted his wife's appeal to working-class people with the elitists he says support Obama. He made the same comparison two months when he last campaigned in West Virginia, calling his wife's critics in the party "glitterati" and "elites."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5902082

And of course, let's not forget he called Hillary a Wack-A-Mole. I couldn't believe that one.

[VolcanoJen]

33. Oh, what the fuck ever!

I mean, really. I may be down and out and depressed over the war and the economy and the wretched last eight years and the division and the poverty, and I may be screwed economically and working my ass off but barely clinging to the middle class, but I don't need his goddamned pity, "those poooooooor people in Ohio."

I guess this is what mad lust for power has wrought. He doesn't even resemble the Bill I knew, loved and was inspired by.

I watched "Primary Colors" a short while ago when it came on cable, and it was about the most illuminating thing I'd seen in awhile. I'd recommend it to everyone who didn't give it a chance back in the VRWC days. Toward the end, when they make the decision to "destroy" their Democratic primary opponent because "they know he can't win in November, we have to destroy him to save the party," well... it made me squirm a bit.

[K Gardner]

58. Yes ! I rewatched it a month ago and that part was like deja vu.. they haven't changed. We just

only now saw them for what they really are.

[Heather MC]

92. I watch the movie recently too..What shocked me is that Bill's team went to Hillary...

to help keep Bill's sexcapades out of the media.

And when the Hillary Character found out her husband's Oppenant sleeped with men when he got high, "Hillary" said oh this is great we can't release this directly, we will have to get someone else to leak this.

When Libby (Cathy Bates) revealed that Bill had faked his DNA test. "Hillary" was upset with Libby b/c Libby said she would release the proof she had that Bill slepted with a black underage woman.

Hate me love me I believe that movie.

And judging their latest actions recently, they are scum. I actually supported the Clinton's
Can I get my vote back from 1992?

[Muttocracy]

34. now, who believes in playing by a different set of rules again? hmmm...

[Blondiegrrl]

38. Dear Bill: Yes, as a matter of fact, I *am* better than you.

Now go fuck yourself, freeperbot.

[polpilot]

64. Bubba needs to skulk off the stage. His legacy is Monica & he needs to accept this.

[mod mom]

66. WOW does he suffer from projection or what?

[SaveAmerica]

67. I'm elitist? Somebody tell me where elitists shop so I can stop going to Aldi,,,

I'm very shocked to read that Bill said that, unbelievable. He's talking about people who have liked him and defended him for a long time. And if Hillary would have won the primary he's talking about the people they'd hope would vote for her in the election.

[marions ghost]

79. yeah

it's getting so hard to afford arugula, y'know It's never on sale. Wah wah

Artificial class wars in the Dem party we do NOT need...

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

73. "...a different set of rules...???"

[marions ghost]

78. Hillary's

a wack-a-mole all right...I wouldn't think Bill would want to use that analogy--yikes! :eyes:

[MessiahRp]

105. With that line how could the Edwardses ever support these fools?

"The great divide in this country is not by race or even income, it's by those who think they are better than everyone else and think they should play by a different set of rules," he said in Clarksburg. "In West Virginia and Arkansas, we know that when we see it."

Sort of goes completely against the concept of the Two Americas theme. I have always wondered personally if the Edwardses weren't endorsing because John supports Obama and she supports Hillary (mostly for her - no way in hell will it be passed, even though it's an HMO giveaway - Health Care plan) and they didn't want to look divided.

Rp

[populistdriven]

119. Check Out this Cartoon of Bill Clinton

bonus pic

[madfloridian]

31. It really is heartbreaking.

.

[iconicgnom]

36. Mark Penn and Charlie Black have played the repug message...

Mark Penn and Charlie Black have played the repug message through her campaign from the start. Aside from the ongoing repug anti-Obama "unelectable elitist black" narrative that she's now pushing, she was also maneuvered into carrying the bag for McCain's idiotic "gas tax holiday" that neither she nor McCain would ever have the power to implement anyway, this summer. And that's just the most recent of it. It's so obvious what's happening, it's embarrassing.

I'm glad Obama has moved on -- and left her to flail around alone in that psychodrama.

read Telegraph article linked from
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3304654

"A second well placed Democrat, who has discussed tactics with Mr Obama's aides, says they are happy for Mrs Clinton to contest the remaining primaries as long as she does not try to take down Mr Obama with her.

He said: "They are going to concentrate on McCain and just let the psychodrama play itself out to a dwindling audience. They know they have to be respectful of her because they will need her supporters in November.""

[genna]

63. Republican message usurped

I don't know if she is rolling around in the race baiting water by herself. She is giving Americans the same kinds of sharp contrast that Rev. Wright provided for Obama. The question comes like this:

Do you reject the politics of divided we stand?
If so, what are you going to do about these divisions?


You can't reject the root unless you know it is there underneath the tree.

[roguevalley]

95. the clintons have become republicans. imagine mccain saying

those words. you know he would and will.

[Mimosa]

2. Code speak.

George Wallace would be proud of Bubba.

[goclark]

3. They are

[NC_Nurse]

4. It's really sad that he is acting as if He and Hillary are the only ones who

have respect for these people. So wrong in so many ways - and ultimately futile anyway.

I wonder what drives them at this point? :shrug:

[madfloridian]

5. It's painful to watch.

:shrug:

[AllentownJake]

6. Fuck Bill

Better rest that speaking voice. You got to rebuild the family forturne after Hillary spent it all on her failed bid.

[crankychatter]

7. Urbana is the future...

...if this is a Democracy.

edit: I realize I just invented a word that's actually a city's name

oops

lol

[rucky]

106. and a crappy city at that

so spot-on!

[charlie]

8. DLC boilerplate

Warning America about the weird, effete, elitist faction in their own party has been their raison d'etre since day one.

Vote for the "New Democrat", he ain't one of those metrosexual types.

[Yael]

9. Dear Lord

How far they have sunk.

Sad.

[IsItJustMe]

68. Bill and Hill remind me of fricking cannibals, will devour anything that gets in their way.

[FrenchieCat]

10. Despicable!

Despicable!

[BattyDem]

11. What a bastard!

The Clintons are no longer competing in the primary; they are sabotaging the GE ... and that will hurt the down-ticket races as well. Why doesn't the Dem leadership DO SOMETHING?! Why won't the SDs end this?!

[flpoljunkie]

72. Good question!

[patrice]

12. Damn! That's disappointing! I'm trying to make peace with her in my heart and this is what we get.

[Cheap_Trick]

13. sadly, Bill has jumped the couch.

[Tatiana]

14. It's pretty clear that the Clintons have left the Democratic party. n/t

[Adelante]

15. We're the villains

It's been said of the Clintons, they always need a villain. This time it's us.

[WillyT]

16. So Much For Graciousness, Eh ???

:wtf:

:mad:

[dailykoff]

17. Sounds like he's demagoguing hard.

And yes it's extremely damaging to Obama as Bill has sixteen years of positive press behind his message and Obama is starting fresh. Disgusting. :mad:

[DemGa]

18. But Obama supporters DO insult these voters all the time

calling them racist and low information voters. Bill is exactly right.

[VolcanoJen]

20. Bill is exactly wrong. Bill is telling the rest of us we don't "need" a president.

He's insulting us in a rather nauseating way. Does he think I spent the last eight years playing polo at the clubby, checking my portfolio, and keeping the proles down? Jesus Christ, I've been slinging wings and beer in bars and restaurants, that's what I've spent the last eight years doing. Bill used to like people like me. Bill used to count on people like me for votes. Bill used to feel our pain... not just half the party. All of us. The entire nation, Republican, Democrat, Independent, and even the jaded, cynical and detached people who had given up.

All I did was make a different choice, and suddenly I'm the enemy. It sickens me that Bill chooses to lash out at me during this time.

Is power really worth this? Burning down a party because you didn't get your way this time?

[DogPoundPup]

22. 'Scuse me? Hillary said she was the one picking up

the most votes from "those who had not attended college" when she was going through her "hard working white" shameful #'s breakdown.

[rainbow4321]

23. HRC herself insulted her supporters

with her telling them at one stump speech that how can they be expected to KNOW how to caucus, that it was too confusing system for them to understand.
How fucking hard is it. Show up, say or write down who you support and wait for the count.
It ain't rocket science.

But there she was trying to get her people on the "poor us, we will never be able to figure out how to caucus" bandwagon.

[cyndensco]

60. She also questioned their intelligence by pushing the gas tax holiday.

Though totally debunked, she is still pushing it in hopes of finding someone - anyone - who is willing to buy it.

[mod mom]

102. then went on to call economists elitists when they failed to support her ill fated gas holiday.

You're correct cyndensco, she was insulting her own supporters by trying to pander to their lack of knowledge on why the gas tax holiday is a bad idea.

[madfloridian]

30. That is not true.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[iconicgnom]

40. gag n/t

[no1dolo]

54. This is not about OB supporters. It's about the Democratic party & our survival. n/t

[genna]

77. Clinton is calling them racists by her actions, words and deeds

SNL had it exactly right.

If we are describing behavior that is true of their conduct, color me elite or whatever else you want to call it. If at the end of the day, these voters are sitting around exclusively saying black guy, can't vote for him AND THE CLINTONS are saying whites, black guy, can't vote for him.

What would you label that behavior?

Race free campaigning?

I don't think so.

You want the behavior to exist, the Clintons to be label race neutral, it have a racial impact, THEN close my eyes to the fact that race might have been involved.

Balderdash!


Maybe we are eggheads and African Americans BUT PLEASE PLEASE don't insult me by saying labeling the behavior is the problem as opposed to the behavior itself.

[Spiffarino]

86. Bill is completely full of shit

If some Obama supporters do that, then they are full of shit as well.

Obama comes from a less-privileged social background, just like Bill. He caught a few breaks and made it in America...just like Bill. And now Bill Clinton smears him with the elitist meme!? I call bullshit on both of you.

[Zambero]

93. Bill is pandering to Dems who are cultural conservative

Of course 2012 is on his mind and Obama is a major bump in the road who must now be defeated in the general election. As for his audience, it's unfortunate but they want it both ways. They want good union jobs, benefits, a secure future, better education for their kids, and affordable health care. And they expect any nominee to be supportive of these interests. However, they will flush all of this down the toilet and likely vote against their own economic interests (for McCain), IF AND WHENEVER a Democratic candidate shows up that doesn't fit certain criteria of race (he's black), religion and ethnicity (with a name like that he must be a Muslim), quasi-patriotism (where's the all-important flag lapel pin?), and intelligence (he's way too smarty-pants cosmopolitan -- I'll settle for a dull Bush clone, thank you). Unfortunately, whatever hopes for a decent future might exist in their minds will be quashed once Bush III is elected. And the ones who put them there -- the "Reagan Democrats" or "McCain Democrats" -- will suffer the most. Yes, these are the people that Bill Clinton "relates" to these days. The man is a huge disappointment. I've spent countless hours defending him to his critics over the years. However, at this point he can handle his own "legacy" and reputation.

[Prophet 451]

103. Y'know, I've not actually seen that

I've seen dozens of HRC supporters complaining about being called racist but I've not once seen an Obama supporter do so.

[VolcanoJen]

19. Why is Bill Clinton insulting me?

I worked hard on his campaigns. I defended him fervently, even when it was incredibly difficult to do. I watched these last eight wretched years go by, and saw my own life change, watched despair creep in, watched jobs disappear, moved around quite a bit myself. Felt insecure and at times a little frightened, and every time Bill Clinton would come on television I would listen to him so closely and with all of my attention, wishing so much we had someone like him in office again. I longed for the kind of leadership he provided.

I need a president, too. I need the economy to turn around. I need this horrible war to end. I need the nation to return to its days of pride and pomp and comfort. I don't think I'm smarter than anyone else. I'm terrified of slipping out of the middle class. Why is Bill Clinton telling me that my support of Barack Obama means I'm not one of these people?

My only "crime" is making a different choice, reaching a different conclusion, within my own party. Why is Bill Clinton turning his back on me simply because my vote and my support might mean he and Hillary don't get to return to the White House? Why is he attacking half of the Democratic Party with these words?

It's fucking heartbreaking to me.

[Myrina]

Same here ...

:( His candidacy in 1991/92 was why I got 'personally involved' volunteering in politics in the first place.

Unhappy Sigh.

[Kittycat]

24. What an ass - to play the party against itself. We have

a presumptive nominee. Their only mission at this point is to destroy him. I don't think they're even considering 2012 as a run. I think at this point they're so angry that Obama has beaten her, that they're doing whatever they can to ensure he loses this fall. To essencially destroy him in return, so that they can sit back on their self-appointed smug asses, and say "We told you so". They are not democrats, not any more. And if anyone thinks they are - well, clearly I'm in the wrong party.

[VolcanoJen]

35. Do they even think we'll come running back into their arms?

Even if their smug asses are right (they aren't, and they should read Frank Rich's Sunday column for some clues as to how they've completely misread this year), why on earth would we turn to them again?

Watching the desperation of Carville and McAuliffe and "Loony Lanny," I'm reminded that there are for more people than just the Clintons who are terrified of losing influence and falling into obscurity.

[Kittycat]

39. I don't think they care.

Honestly, it's all about them - and they're like cornered wild animals.

[genna]

80. Frank Rich article link

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/11/opinion/11rich.html

Almost every wrong prediction about this election cycle has come from those trying to force the round peg of this year’s campaign into the square holes of past political wars. That’s why race keeps being portrayed as dooming Mr. Obama — surely Jeremiah Wright = Willie Horton! — no matter what the voters say to the contrary. It’s why the Beltway took on faith the Clinton machine’s strategic, organization and fund-raising invincibility. It’s why some prognosticators still imagine that John McCain can spin the Iraq fiasco to his political advantage as Richard Nixon miraculously did Vietnam.

The year 2008 is far more complex — and exhilarating — than the old templates would have us believe. Of course we’re in pain. More voters think the country is on the wrong track (81 percent) than at any time in the history of New York Times/CBS News polling on that question. George W. Bush is the most unpopular president that any living American has known.

And yet, paradoxically, there is a heartening undertow: we know the page will turn. For all the anger and angst over the war and the economy, for all the campaign’s acrimony, the anticipation of ending the Bush era is palpable, countering the defeatist mood. The repressed sliver of joy beneath the national gloom can be seen in the record registration numbers of new voters and the over-the-top turnout in Democratic primaries.

Mr. Obama hardly created this moment, with its potent brew of Bush loathing and sweeping generational change. He simply had the vision to tap into it. Running in 2008 rather than waiting four more years was the single smartest political decision he’s made (and, yes, he’s made dumb ones too). The second smartest was to understand and emphasize that subterranean, nearly universal anticipation of change rather than settle for the narrower band of partisan, dyspeptic Bush-bashing. We don’t know yet if he’s the man who can make the moment — and won’t know unless he gets to the White House — but there’s no question that the moment has helped make the man.

The thinking is that we just chalk them tapping into the racially motivated hate as being par for the course. The lot of the Clinton bunch is that we can't see what they are doing. The media may have fallen down in the past and not given us a word for word quote system for what each candidate has said in different areas. They are thinking we are not paying attention to the way they change into something else when they go to North Carolina, Indiana, West Virginia, so on and so forth.

I won't forget. I have to forgive because they know not what they do is a disservice to their legacy and to their supporters. I just hope they get to enjoy the fruits of their labors in that the party doesn't fracture, their base of support does.

[butterfly77]

87. Don't forget Begala and Ferraro...

[VolcanoJen]

99. Funny you should mention that!

The other day, I was having a discussion with a not-very-politically-savvy friend who insisted that Bill and Hillary and their surrogates never once race-baited, that only Obama had done that.

I kind of blew it off, because she wouldn't have listened to me anyway, but I was so mad at myself a few hours later when I remembered Geraldine Ferraro!!! Isn't it funny that I seem to have completely blocked that entire ugly episode from my mind? I suspect many of us did.

[nomorewhopper]

25. i will NEVER forgive the Clintons

and i will never forget

they sicken me.

[theboss]

26. This is the flip side of his "People like me don't need a tax cut" argument

I was never completely comfortable with that, because it was such a divisive approach to that issue. But I "need" a president just as much as anyone, even though I have a graduate degree.

[keep_it_real]

27. The comments to this article are an interesting read also

[WillyT]

28. "Lieberman ??? Party Of Three ???"

"Your table is right over here."



:puke:

[DogPoundPup]

32. You nailed it.

:kick:

[KSinTX]

42. Right you may be

and it will be a mess come Nov. Tragic if it is!

[Wetzelbill]

41. Is Rachel Maddow right? Will the Clintons go scorched earth?

I don't get it. How do they expect her to win? There is no good that comes from language like this. No good at all. She can't win, barring Barack going down in flames in a major scandal or something. She can't. This is highly disappointing.

[madfloridian]

43. She might. The superdelegates need to step in more quickly if she continues

Some of them are acting a little skittish. She is already damaging him, and they need to stand up and be counted now that we know she can't win unless "something happens to him."

What the heck kind of threat is that?

[Wetzelbill]

44. they might fear the Clinton power

within the party or something. I thought Hill and Bill would take down the rhetoric, win in W.Va and leave on a more positive note. Now listening to the latest strategy, I just don't know, but it seems like the SDs are skittish, and DNC Chair Howard Dean as well as some of the party heavies like Gore and Edwards are hesitant to lay down the law on this thing. Maybe the Clintons are beyond controlling by the conventional forces. Instead of getting out gracefully like most would, they seem to be determined to fight to the bitter end, regardless of the damage and futility of it.

[REACTIVATED IN CT]

70. Do they really have any power left ?

They can't raise as much money as Obama, they can't run as good a campaign, they aren't running a voter registration drive. I think they are ready to be put out to pasture.

[Wetzelbill]

107. maybe the perception of it

They have some people definitely entrenched in the status quo. I think that's one reason why she was able to stay in it so long, because they have enough influence in the status quo, among politicians and so on, that they could keep the storyline going. The media, of course, didn't mind, they like the ratings. They have big donors, remember the threats against Pelosi? Will Hill's big donor allies step away from some of the SDs in congress who depend on their money? That's some leverage, because not all pols can build a movement like an Obama or even a Howard Dean.

[flpoljunkie]

74. This would be the ideal time for Gore to step in and ask us to rally around the presumptive nominee

[marions ghost]

83. yes the party honchos seem hesitant

it seems perilously close to the time when they should be calling time on this.

Maybe they want it to be clear that the Clintons are hoisting themselves by their own petard (whatever a petard might be). Maybe they are leaving them swinging in the breeze for the world to see. That way they offend fewer Clinton supporters...particularly the big supporters

[Wetzelbill]

108. yeah, possibly they might be waiting for her

To win tomorrow and then start winding down. Because she'll win in West Virginia and Kentucky, probably Puerto Rico, but she'll lost Oregon, Montana and South Dakota, the last two big. So maybe if she doesn't wind down after she picks up a win and saves some face, they'll start stepping in. But it serves no purpose for her to go out on a note where she gets blown out in the last two races. The big problem is not that she's in it, it's really her attacks. She's going down a bad road with her language and strategy. That's what's really damaging, not necessarily that she's still in the race. She could ride it out, be positive and let Obama move on oratorically against McCain, but not actually officially throw in the towel.

[marions ghost]

111. right

that's how I see it too...she could choose to start exiting now...keeping it positive & get to the point where she would ask her supporters to put their weight behind Obama. Somehow I'm not sure that's in the works. It appears that this scenario was just NOT in the realm of possibility and they don't know how to stop this train. I could be completely wrong, but that is the appearance.

It's starting to get very surreal and that gets my :crazy: antennae up.

She can still save face, but the graceful exit has to begin soon. Maybe she's just going on fumes and wants to show that she gave it the extra mile and all that. It has been a brutal marathon for her--after all she was being set up to do this a long time ago (in political light years). If I were her, I'd be saying Thank God this nightmare is over and congratulate her opponent in his stunning upset.
(and therefore remain in good standing all around, with toasts of "Nice try Hillary" --instead of "Hillary get effing out!"

More convincing than ever that the best human has won this.

[autorank]

45. Here's why

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0803/S00475.htm

[democracy1st]

46. K & R

[dorktv]

47. Well I must be stupid, I just see standard candidate boilerplate

blathering.

And that is what it is, blathering. "My candidate is superwonderful and here is why" type of thing.

[GoesTo11]

48. Bill unintentionally reveals some truth (definition of a gaffe)

"And no matter how much fun they make of your support of her and the fact that working people all over America have stuck with her, she thinks you're as smart as *they* are."


There are two ways to parse this sentence. The first is that Hillary thinks you are as smart as working people all over America. The second is that Hillary thinks you are as smart as her critics are. But what she definitely doesn't think is that you are as smart as she is!

[Skwmom]

49. Don't worry. According to those brilliant superdelegates, Bill will be able to turn

around a few weeks later and tell them he was just kidding.

They are trying to negatively define Obama. Once someone has a negative impression, it really is an uphill battle to try to change it.

It is really the Clinton group that is laughing at them.

[VotesForWomen]

50. Why the F do you care if hillary drops out? Can't obama win *without* the competition dropping out?

[Raine]

51. I've come to believe that at this point

the Clintons really don't want Obama to win the presidency because Hillary is planning on 2012. If a Obama wins that's 8 years to wait plus possibly another 8 beyond that because his Veep will certainly be in line for it.

[cyndensco]

61. It does seem 2012 is now her goal.

But I can't imagine how she would think ANYONE beyond her current supporters would vote for her. They weren't enough in 2008, won't be enough 4 years from now....

[anitar1]

52. I clearly remember hearing Bill lie a number of times years ago.

It seemed to be easy for him. But I never fell under his spell , although I voted for him. He is a clever man , but has lost the ability to realize that most of us are pretty smart. I do not want another dynasty in the White House.

[no1dolo]

53. Unbelievable! n/t

[NashVegas]

55. Gee, I Don't Know How Anyone Could Have Gotten the Idea the Obama Campaign & Media Laugh At WV

Can we have another set of "Clinton Voters Are Uneducated Rednecks" and "Obama Voters Are College Grads" twin story headlines, please?

[MyNameGoesHere]

56. But he has clearly been reading posts on this board

where quite a few have made those remarks about HRC supporters. So instead of trying to smear him why don't those who have actually said these things here own up to it?

[genna]

57. The division the Clintons are setting up is obvious: Us v. Them

You know what? I think they are wrong that he has that weakness with working class voters. I think it is something they pulled out of thin air, and then they exploited it. They have built it up into an issue to benefit her campaign.

When you say something long enough and keep your campaign going to keep saying it over and over....it finally starts polling as an issue.

The media is saying that there is a half and half trend line between white people who will vote for a black man and white people who will not vote for a black man. Hillary Clinton made it especially clear when she said her supporters were hard working white voters. The DUers on this site that try to camouflage what she meant by that are trying to cover it up.

What Bill and Hill are doing is exploited what was already true about our culture.

I kept saying Bill and Hillary Clinton are not racist, but they are using race to divide the party so they can win. It is a cold calculation which works to their benefit. In the end, opportunistic but not racist in nature. That thought kept me calm and made me not strike at the heart of what's at stake now that we are in this neck of the woods.


Just because they uncover the underlying motive for the race hatred for opportunistic reasons, does not dilute the strength of their underlying belief about race in this country: it is a static phenomenon which will NEVER change. For the part of the party who did not want this race to be framed on those terms nor did they want to confront that reality, then the Clintons did us all a favor by making it an explicit choice on the part of voters. I still believe people should vote on their interests and not by racial prejudice. But why should it not be made clear whether we are all Americans or whether some Americans are more equal than other Americans.

Barack Obama framed the presidential race in terms of YES WE CAN meaning that the U.S. can do anything it imagines itself to be and do. We don't need permission, we can just float along and not sacrifice anything in the process. Maybe what we are sacrificing is a view of us and them. Maybe we are actually trying to march toward that ideal that we are ONE NATION.


I don't think that the Clintons are doing this to make Obama a better candidate. I think they are doing it to expose what they believe is the deepest part of us all: racism and racist belief.

Is that who we, Americans, are?
Is that who we, the Democratic party, is?

[Maria Wr]

75. Exploiting a wound to win

And this is the person we would want as the nation's leader? One who would willingly exploit it's own citizens for personal (and it's all personal w./ the Clintons) gain?

[AngryOldDem]

59. I have lost all respect for Bill.

Face it: Both he and HRC couldn't give less of a shit about these people than they claim Obama does. And don't think those in rural areas aren't smart enough to catch on to when they are being played, either.

I am just so sick of the "We're just folks, like you!" bullshit that I could :puke: .

[NoFederales]

62. This is reason enough to disallow a serious VP look at Clinton.

After losing Richardson, Biden, Kucinich, and Edwards in the race, and the ways it was all orchestrated, I was polarized permanently against Clinton. The Obama people would be fools to bring her in; I would vote for Obama, but not a fool. He can win without her and she is owed NOTHING.

NoFederales

[IsItJustMe]

65. Bill is bitter and he has no class at all. Sad.

[ToughLuck]

69. Other than being an absolute LIE, Bill has sunk so low, he has no

credibility left. Hunger for power sure is ugly to watch.

[WA98296]

71. I hope the SDs are paying attention to this anti-party rhetoric

[flpoljunkie]

76. Great post, madfloridian!

[genna]

94. Us versus them redux

http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/14446

With all his verbose deflections of Hillary's attacks and unconcealed annoyance over silly nonissues like his failure to wear a flag lapel pin, Obama inadvertently painted himself into a corner as a know-it-all, a pointy-head who would rather yammer in polysyllables and talk to Mahmoud Ahmadinejad than wear the fucking American flag on his chest — as Hillary, meanwhile, was promising to "obliterate" Iran and in the process roping in hordes of nondescript suburbanites who'll crawl through the mud for "Madam President" while marching to classic rock tunes like the "Horst Wessel Song." Clinton's genius was in seeing that it was possible to play the liberal/intellectual-baiting game not only with Republicans but with Democrats — and that by forcing her opponent to take the high road, she could scour the fish-rich waters of the low road.

The result has been an epic clash, a war of cultural types that has nothing whatsoever to do with issues and everything to do with self-image. It's become a pitched fight between the fucked-over suburban little guy and the vilified intellectual, two groups that for years have felt put upon and dispossessed, for different reasons. The fact that their respective champions are identical superstar U.S. senators/multimillionaires makes the bitter hatred this schism is inspiring absurd, but it doesn't make it any less real. Or likely to end anytime soon.

Pat Buchanan keeps saying that politicians have to work the divides to win the election when they have nothing else. What's worse it works not merely because it exists but because it makes people self-identify that they are a member of a collective group so their pride in being that group member means that they HAVE TO SUPPORT the scary leader who has enough pride to lead that collective group.

Smart politics, but it is also the same as fear politics.

Dee Dee Myers was on Morning Joe talking about the DNC constantly gets this divide wrong because we say it shouldn't matter. IMHO, the fact that political partisans use these divdes to keep us divided owes itself more to the love of power and is not an accurate statement about unity and American pride.

We may not get it, but why did the politics change win?

What gap mined by these Republican/Clinton campaigns actually is uplifted election after election? They still haven't transcended the divide that those strategies offer to bridge. They just keep pointing out the fact that they are there. n/t

[Barack_America]

81. 2012.

That's what this is about. The only question is, will she be running as a Democrat or a Republican? I mean that question seriously. I sense a party switch in the future.

[Zambero]

90. Fine & Dandy

Then she can round out the ticket (either GOP or 3rd party DINO) with fellow turncoat Joe-Joe Lieberman.

[redqueen]

82. How can anyone criticize Obama's supporters

while she and her husband THEMSELVES are spewing right-wing "elitist" bullshit, straight out of Rove's playbook.

Unbelievalbe.

[Independent-Voter]

84. Bill and Veruca are both fucking nuts. I can't believe there are folks that still support that pair

[Spiffarino]

85. Damn it.

:wtf: are they trying to do exactly?

:grr:

[indimuse]

88. Why do you care?? BO already won , right?

or I like this one better..
ObamaCod::

GO on Obama...Declare away~~~

[VolcanoJen]

100. Do you have to be a Hillary supporter or a Republican to "get" those photoshops?

I mean, seriously. They don't even make any sense.

[ellisonz]

112. You have to be a member of Ingsoc.

War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength

x(

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

89. How DARE He Act Like Obama Is Their Competitor. How DARE He!!!!!!111111111111111

:rofl:

[VolcanoJen]

101. You're missing the gist of this. I'm not Bill and Hillary's opponent.

For years I was an advocate of theirs, I defended them even when they made it nearly impossible. This year, I and many of us made a different choice, but Bill chooses not to attack Obama so much as attack us.

So if you don't mind, I'm going to remain a wee bit pissed off at Bill and his pithy act, because he's coming after the heart and soul of the Democratic Party now. I don't much care if you find it amusing.

[LSK]

104. he is making this elitist liberal bullshit up from thin air and the GOP will say thank you Bill

Because the GOP will jump on Bill and Hillary's work in the GE and scream "elitist liberal" "elitist liberal" "elitist liberal" all over the place.

Keep in mind this is a guy who's favorite sport is basketball and made himself who he is.

[ooglymoogly]

91. KR...When I hear tripe like this that is clearly taking these folks for gullible fools

I think of dueling banjo's.

[ut oh]

96. It's looking more and more like the Clintons

WANT the Republicans to win....

Before it seemed more like a 'ha ha, no, they'll pull behind the party when it comes down to it", but at this point I'm doubtful....

[AZ Criminal JD]

97. Bill Clinton has it exactly right.

Obama is arrogant and elitist and his supporters take those traits to the extreme.

[me b zola]

98. Good thread, ml

Nominated.

[Name removed]

110. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[madfloridian]

114. That's a bunch of hooey.

That should not be allowed here at DU.

[nongrata]

117. Your right madfloridian

There are some things we just shouldn't want to know and some aspects of life nobody should ever think about.

[calmblueocean]

109. Wow. Just wow. Changes my opinion of Bill in a big way.

I've defended a lot of what Bill Clinton has said on the campaign trail. For instance, I think too much was made when Bill said after Obama's win in South Carolina that Jesse Jackson won there, too. Yes, Bill was trying to minimize the win, but there's nothing wrong with that, and being compared to Jesse Jackson's groundbreaking runs for president is not an insult.

But demonizing Obama supporters -- fellow Democrats -- this way, especially when there is no path to the nomination for your candidate, is detestable. "Tough stuff to walk back from," indeed.

[madfloridian]

122. I know what you mean.

It's sad.

[trickyguy]

113. How about a Bill and Hillary salt and pepper shaker set? What a perfect gift

for any West Virginia household.

They are guaranteed to "spice up ' your next political gathering.:dunce:

[juno jones]

115. I just hope

some of those people reflect back on the Clinton years and ask, "What did Bill do for us?"

'Cause in central IL, he did dick for us, and I bet he did less for Appalachia. In fact, many of us continued our slide down into outsourced, strip-mined hell.

NAFTA. WTO. Telcom consolidation. 'Welfare Reform'.

I used to listen to NPR and scream 'What the fuck!!!???'

[eilen]

120. I agree.

As a constituent of Hillary Clinton's, economically I am also at a loss. My husband, (who not only is college educated, but is also blue collar Journeyman electrician) has had to travel the last 3 years because there was no work. Luckily he has been home since November (but unemployed for 4 of those months). He is concerned because when this job ends, there may be no other jobs to go to. Many of his travel friends are out of work, they travel to a place but are not getting out and with the price of gas, it is an expensive proposition.

Using racism, exploiting it to benefit yourself is, in fact, a racist act. With the way things are going in this country, one would think that we have no luxury of engaging in an us vs. them, whether it be class or race. An unemployed blue collar worker isn't anymore unemployed than a laid off programmer. The programmer worked 70 hour weeks without overtime and had a crappier pension. The union shipper should be stumping for fair labor practices across the board. What you see now is the result of pandering to just one subsection of society as a result, our unions have lost sympathy with the rest of the working public. That is what happens when you divide people. We don't have the luxury for racism, for pointing at the "elites" or the "educated". Anyone that can read, that can open a book or a newspaper can educate themselves and participate in the exchange of ideas. Anyone that can read can see the baseness of President Clinton's appeals. I am embarrassed at his behavior. One would think that a former president would not engage the public in that way. It makes you wonder what he really believed during those years. I think I know what he thought about women.

[New Dawn]

116. The Clintons need to get out of politics

They've already done more than enough damage to the Party and the country.

[countmyvote4real]

118. How dumb do the Clinton's think West Virginians (or any of us) are?

That is the real question. The HRC campaign is pissing on our shoes and telling us it's raining.

I don't know much about WV other than my sixth grade teacher, Miss D, was from White Sulphur Springs. I don't know her politics, but she was a damn good teacher.

Obama should have been there more, but there's not that much at stake there at this time.

[madfloridian]

121. They are insulting people from WV.

Right to their faces.