UPDATE: Clinton WILL use the Nuclear Option!

[WA98296]

UPDATE | May 5, 11am ET : Hillary Clinton's campaign today acknowledged plans to try to win seating of the disputed Michigan and Florida delegations to the Democratic Nation Convention at a meeting of the party's Rules and Bylaws Committee on May 31.

"There is no secret plan.... The Clinton campaign has been vocal in stating that the votes of 2.5 million people must be respected. Hardly a day goes by when a Clinton official doesn't publicly declare that the votes of Michigan and Florida count and that the delegations from those states should be seated."
The campaign's public assertions stand in contrast to its response to inquiries prior to publication of the story. At that point, Clinton aides insisted on keeping all comments either off the record or on deep background, or did not respond to questions at all. The campaign statement appeared to be designed to try to reduce the significance of the story.

In a more typical reaction to the story, political analyst Larry Sabato of the University of Virginia said: "Wow. The nuclear option will yield nuclear winter for the Democratic Party."

---


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/04/clinton-camp-considering_n_100051.html

[The Ghost]

1. If this happens

I cant wait to vote against her.

[rug]

7. If this happens she may get the Democratic nomination. How will you vote against her?

[AllentownJake]

10. by voting for McCain

I won't go that far...I'll vote for my dead father but many on here will do the unthinkable to punish the party.

She wins any other way I vote for her.

[newmajority]

30. Fuck that

The only logical thing to do, is organize the biggest write in campaign in electoral history, and elect the man who truly won the nomination.

I will vote for Barack Obama in November. One way or the other.

[beezlebum]

43. i'm with you

will vote obama no matter what (that is, if my state allows it...????), however, i have a hard time believing we'd have much company. we might could organize a large write-in campaign, but i am skeptical we would win.

[susankh4]

49. I think that is right....

Obama supporters really do want a party of their own. I think they should have it.

"1.2 million people is not a mailing list, it's a political party."

I got that message. Loud and clear.

It is time to recognize that the Democratic party is not "Move-on." It is not Obama.

The Dem party is split down squarely down the middle.... and the moderate wing is likely to prevail in the long run.

[Alexander]

130. You're kidding, right?

Obama: 1,739½
Clinton: 1,609

How is being ahead by over 130 delegate "split down squarely down the middle"? Not to mention Obama's insurmountable pledged delegate lead and the recent trend of superdelegate endorsements.

[susankh4]

139. Not kidding.

The popular vote is much closer than that.

And, among Dems, she is actually ahead.

[Hepburn]

50. Add me to the list....

...write in Obama, no vote for Hillary.

[Freedom Train]

114. Then get the hell off DU

This is Democratic Underground, Mr. I'll-write-in-someone-to-vote-against-the-Democratic-candidate.

[RamboLiberal]

118. I think DU ought to be spelled with a small "d"

From the word "democracy"

1 a: government by the people; especially : rule of the majority b: a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections
2: a political unit that has a democratic government
3capitalized : the principles and policies of the Democratic party in the United States <from emancipation Republicanism to New Deal Democracy— C. M. Roberts>
4: the common people especially when constituting the source of political authority
5: the absence of hereditary or arbitrary class distinctions or privileges

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/democracy

Hillary using the nuclear option would not be democratic.

So quit telling people to leave DU - maybe you ought to the be the one to go telling people they have to be like lemming Republicans!

[Exilednight]

120. Obama is a Democrat. More so than Hillary is. n/t

[Tesha]

141. And who annointed you King or Queen?

I've made it clear since Hillary's Iraq War Resolution
vote that she would be inelligible to receive my vote
(or any other support) in any further election, and I
have no intention of backing down from that position now.

I've held my nose in too many elections and the stink
from the DLC has just gotten worse and worse as a result,
so this year, I'm all over holding my nose.

Tesha

[NorthCarolina]

39. Does every state allow write-ins for the GE?

I know NC does, so I'd probably write-in Kucinich, or if I sensed there was a national movement afoot for an Obama write-in I'd likely do that. One thing I will NOT do is vote for a Republican OR a DLC member.

[WeDidIt]

48. If she nukes, she's worse than the Repukes. n/t

[Avalux]

52. If this happens, I will NOT vote for her.

If she thinks she can do this crap and expect Dems to fall in line like good little soldiers, she's got another thing coming. She will lose the GE to McCain and then I will do whatever I can to make sure Hillary DOES NOT EVER run for president again.

[The Ghost]

67. I will vote Obama

This is not some silly threat. Ive had it with Hillary, Im done giving her second chances. Shes a vindictive and truly dangerous person, and I could simply never ever ever vote for her. Not even holding my nose. Say Im not a democrat, but Im an American first. Thanks.

[Triana]

111. write in Obama. The Republican beyotch won't get my vote. n/t

[roguevalley]

119. she won't get it. the SD's will come out for Obama and she will lose

a ton of her own, the wankette. Good.

[psychopomp]

128. This scenerio is unlikely

for reasons stated clearly in the article. However, even if the Clinton campaign forces a change in the rules the Obama campaign will be able to contest the outcome at the convention:

Under that optimistic scenario, some Clinton operatives believe she could overcome several massive stumbling blocks:

-- Clinton loyalists on the Rules Committee would have to be persuaded to put their political futures on the line by defying major party constituencies, especially black leaders backing Barack Obama. Committee members are unlikely to take such a step unless they are convinced that Clinton has a strong chance of winning the nomination.

Former DNC and South Carolina Democratic Party chair Donald Fowler -- a Hillary loyalist -- would, for example, face an outpouring of anger from South Carolina Democrats if he were to go along with such a strategy.

-- A controversial decision to seat the two delegations, as currently constituted, would be appealed by the Obama campaign to the Democratic National Convention's Credentials Committee.

The full make-up of the Credentials Committee will not be determined until all the primaries are completed, but the pattern of Clinton and Obama victories so far clearly suggests that Obama delegates on that committee will outnumber Clinton delegates. Obama will not, however, have a majority, according to most estimates, and the balance of power will be held by delegates appointed by DNC chair Howard Dean.

Looks like Howard Dean would have the final say in this matter, should his appointees heed his judgment.

[bunnies]

2. stupid. stupid. stupid.

and selfish. Unreal.

[cali]

5. terribly stupid. this will only encourage SDs to endorse Obama

[bunnies]

12. And she'll come out of it looking like a desperate, manipulative person.

I guess thats the chance she's willing to take just to win. Stupid. stupid. stupid.

[Cheap_Trick]

90. she ALREADY looks like a desperate, manipulative person.

Pulling shit like this finishes her conversion to the dark side.

[bunnies]

101. Good point. Nothing left to lose for Hill I guess. nt

[mcctatas]

3. While I do think something needs to be do ne about FL,

I cannot believe the Clinton campaign is willing to destroy the party to get her the nomination. And yes, any strategy with "nuclear" in it's name is a destructive strategy!

[azmouse]

4. If she uses this to steal the nomination

I will NOT vote for her. No way, no how.
I'll write in Obama's name.

[WA98296]

9. When they SHOW you who they are, believe them. These tactics are deplorable.

[AllentownJake]

6. I hope she does it

and still loses the nomination by the superdelegates for doing it. It will be a very lonely cold senate chamber for her. Better start kissing up to the GOP for a committee seat come 2009.

[grassfed]

8. Researching location and time - will post for demonstration (nt)

[habitual]

11. Let's see if the party goes along for 'her' ride

i have a feeling that the 'nuclear option' she is floating out there is another pipe dream of hers.

she's just putting it out there hoping it will get enough acceptance that she can actually attempt to twist these peoples arms and have them put themselves at political risk for her political career. I'm not holding my breath on that one!!

[WA98296]

16. I hope you're right, for the sake of the party.

[Ichingcarpenter]

13. She will OBLITERATE the Democratic Party if she does this

The resulting radiation will linger for years.

[Fluffdaddy]

14. Good. That's why I support Hillary Clinton: WIN AT ALL COST

[AllentownJake]

20. Great idea

She gets to be the nominee and McCain gets to win 45-50 states, congress, the senate, and appoint 3 SCOTUS justices.

Hope the balloon drop is worth it.

[cali]

23. first of all, I doubt she'll do this.

By May 31st, Obama may well have 2025. If she does it then, significant numbers of her SD endorsers will abandon her for Obama. Secondly, if she does it and succeeds, it's goodnight for our chances in November. That's not winning.

[Gore1FL]

29. Win at all cost = Pyrrhic Victory.

It still doesn't give her enough pledged delegates, and it destroys her forever.

[Fluffdaddy]

37. Pyrrhic Victory......................I love that kind of talk

[Gore1FL]

102. Me too--when the GOP wins them at the expense of their party

[JackORoses]

70. even your Integrity

[pompano]

80. Win at all cost...

what?...a nomination? Ask Geraldine Ferraro what a huge whoopeee that was?

I doubt she'll pull the new-ku-lar option. It nets her nothing more than a nomination, it rips this Party apart and makes Capitol Hill a very lonely place place for her. She can kiss her Hill/Bill 90's legacy goodbye and go down in the history books about as popular as a booger on a trimmed mustache'. She has too much to lose using that option.

[Leftist Agitator]

113. "WIN AT ALL COST"

That's Bush's attitude, for the record.

[Lerkfish]

116. dang!

I'm frequently amazed at the notion that ethics are an inconvenient luxury for some clinton supporters.

plonk!

[Leopolds Ghost]

122. You are disrupting... poorly...

The Disruptor uses a sonic wave as a weapon

[ekwhite]

136. Except that she can't win by destroying the Democratic party

She will only usher in four years of McCain and destroy the Clinton legacy.

[NJmaverick]

15. The Hillary camp is composed of ammoral dirtbags, how can any informed Dem support her?!?!

[Fluffdaddy]

18. Because they know how to ..............WIN

I want the POTUS back in DEM hands

[AllentownJake]

22. I don't think you understand

Winning this way will be deemed unfair by 40-50% of Obama's supporters...those will not vote or vote for McCain. How do you plan to win the Presidency without 20% of the party?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

32. They think those dumb white bigots who put her over in states like PA

Will come through for her in November.

As if.

[Fluffdaddy]

44. And they are right. 13% of whites will not vote for a Black man.

And that is all Mc-insane needs

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0408/9761.html

[mrreowwr_kittty]

61. And if even half the African American voters sit it out or vote for someone else?

How will that effect Hillary? What about all the young people Obama registered who won't vote for her?

Most of that 13% you cite wasn't going to vote for the Dem anyway, my friend, so I don't know why you want us to cater to them.

[Yukari Yakumo]

105. Without the AA vote.

Kerry would not have won Pennsylvania or Michigan.

Instead of seeing a patchwork of blue and red, if she tries and succeeds with her scheme, the projection maps will be awash in red.
And if the Repukes were smart, they'd instantly begin pandering to the AA vote should HRH HRC steal the nom. Why do you think McInsane wanted the NC Wright ads nixed?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

109. That is EXACTLY what they are going to do! nt

[ekwhite]

137. Do you honestly think the rednecks who won't vote for a black man

will vote for Hillary? Over John "War Hero" McCain? Do you honestly think that the Republicans will hold back against her as Obama has? In the meantime, a lot of pissed off black voters and young people will not bother to vote, and the independents will break for McCain. Face it, she will never be POTUS.

[Hepburn]

64. The bigots are McCain voters...

...when the GE comes along, they are gonna vote for him anyhow.

She cannot win ~~ the only way she is where she is right now is that the bigots who are registered Dems are flocking to her.

[Fluffdaddy]

71. All good points

[AlinPA]

121. This is true in PA.

[AZ Criminal JD]

132. Obama hasn't won anything since Feb. 22nd.

So that means all of Clinton's victories have come from bigots? If you are opposed to Obama you are a bigot?

[Auntie Bush]

131. How does Obama think he can win without 20% of the party?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

31. Then why is she losing to Obama?

A year ago she was polling like 30 points ahead of everyone else. She was the inevitable frontrunner.

And now? Some winner ya got there, pal.

[habitual]

41. white is black

she knows how to win and that is why she is losing.

HAHAHAHAHA

[newmajority]

33. So do I. It hasn't been in Democratic hands since 1980, after all

And I will vote for the Democratic candidate, Barack Obama, in November.

[cliffordu]

36. And winning is everything, right? Like in being on the winning team

on the IWR vote? The one that carried?

That's your girl, all right.

I wish you both all the best.

[Fluffdaddy]

46. Winning is everything.

[nxylas]

65. If the nuclear option fails, she can always have Obama bumped off

After all, who cares whether it's ethical or legal, as long as she wins, right? Seriously, you sound even more sociopathic than your candidate, and I didn't think such a thing was possible :scared:

[Hepburn]

57. Then you should not be supporing that lying POS Hillary. n/t

[NJmaverick]

63. They are only winning for themselves, they should support w bush

he knew how to win as well

[JackORoses]

73. when you act like a Repuke, you lose the right to pretend you are a Democrat

[gmudem]

104. You think this will help Democrats win?

You've obviously been drinking too much DLC kool-aid. Democrats will not have a chance of winning in November if this happens. You need to get that through your thick skull. Hillary is a DISASTER FOR THIS PARTY.

[burythehatchet]

54. quite right.

[Carrieyazel]

17. Will she also try to get a floor vote to see if she can beat Obama on the first ballot?

That's really her only shot to take the nomination. The supers aren't going to break to her at this point. The uncommitted numbers are dwindling.

[Fluffdaddy]

19. Lets Hope

[graycem]

21. If she does go this far,

it will be political suicide. She should start seeking some better advice.

[Brundle_Fly]

108. this will go down as the stupidest thing in politics since

Guillianni had the Florida strategy.

[BlueIdaho]

24. Absolute Pyhrric victory

What a same.

[NJSecularist]

25. You go, Hillary. Don't let the haters try to convince you otherwise.

You are giving a voice to the other half of the Democratic party. The netroots wants to mask that other half of the party, but it exists.

[Leopolds Ghost]

125. You go, NJSecularist. Don't listen to your former words of "concern" for Obama.

The Disruptor uses sonic waves as a weapon:

[TBF]

26. Larry Sabato is usually right about things - and he will be right this time as well.

[CatsDogsBabies]

27. on herself?

[oasis]

28. "Better to be pissed off by Hillary than to be pissed on by McCain."

Great idea for a bumper sticker.

[rateyes]

34. I am a 48 year old WASP who has voted a straight Democratic ticket

for 30 years. If this happens, I WILL leave the party, take my money with me, and work my ass off to defeat any DLCer and Blue Dog Democrat that ever runs for any office.

"Nuclear option" is right. The problem is, they will be dropping the bomb on themselves.

[WA98296]

45. I feel the same way. Perhaps time for a RESTORATION party if this happens.

[vi5]

53. I feel the exact same way...

38 years old, voted for every democrat on every ballot I've cast in every election (presidential and non-presidential year) since 1988. If this happens I'm done.

[Hepburn]

A-fucking-men. :applause:

I have been a Dem all my life, straight ticket voter, worked me ass off and contributed like hell.

If Hillary steals this nomination ~~ I am with you all the way.

[RainDog]

77. me too

and please, please, can someone note the irony that when the republicans are at their weakest in decades, the DLC tries to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory?

makes you wonder sometimes.

[rateyes]

87. It really does. nt

[Khaotic]

78. Hell Yeah

I'm with you all the way.

Fuck the DLC and Blue Dogs!

They can take their fucking fake ethics and morals with them.

There will be hell to pay if this goes down.

[Jersey Devil]

35. I think this whole story is baloney - first, it's the wrong committee

First off, the Rules & Bylaws Committee is not the committee that rules on seating delegates. That is the Credentials Committee, which contains either 25 or 30 delegates who are appointed by Howard Dean together with the other members of the committee. Nobody has control of that committee without Howard Dean's appointees.

The Rules & Bylaws Comm can change the rules and bylaws. However, any such changes would have to be approved by the convention as a whole, which will be controlled by Obama.

[WeDidIt]

69. You couldn't be more wrong.

The Rules and Bylaws Committee stripped the delegates to begin with and they have the power to restore them.

And the R&BC may be in the tank for Clinton, too.

Here's the list:

Co-Chairs (both undeclared):

Alexis Herman Washington D.C. *1
James Roosevelt Jr. Massachusetts

Declared for Obama:

Allan Katz Florida *2
Thomas Hynes Illinois
Sarah Swisher Iowa
Janice Griffin Maryland
Martha Fuller Clark New Hampshire
Everett Ward North Carolina
Carol Khare Fowler South Carolina
Sharon Stroschein South Dakota

Declared for Clinton:

Alice Huffman California
Garry Shay California
Mona Pasquil California
Michael Steed Maryland
Elaine Kamarck Massachusetts
Donald Fowler South Carolina
Jaime Gonzalez Jr. Texas *3
Mame Reiley Virginia
Elizabeth Smith Washington D.C
Ben Johnson Washington D.C.
Eric Kleinfeld Washington D.C.
Harold Ickes Jr. Washington D.C.
Hartina Flournoy Washington D.C.

Undeclared:

Mark Brewer Michigan *4
Yvonne Gates Nevada
Ralph Dawson New York *5
Jerome Wiley Segovia Virginia
David McDonald Washington
Donna Brazille Washington D.C
Alice Germond West Virginia

Footnotes:

*1 Alexis Herman served as the first African American Secretary of Labor under Bill Clinton
*2 Allan Katz, though an Obama endorser, is from Florida and therefore may be inclined to seat Florida's delegation.
*3 Jaime Gonzalez Jr. was undeclared until just a few days ago. This could be indicative of how the Rules and Bylaws Committee will rule on the matter come May 31.
*4 Mark Brewer, though undeclared, is from Michigan and therefore may be inclined to seat Michigan's delegation.
*5 Ralph Dawson is the only undeclared New York Super Delegate. All other New York Super Delegates have endorsed Senator Clinton. Ralph Dawson is the member of the Rules and Bylaws Committee who initally introduced the ruling that stripped Florida and Michigan of their delegates.

[Jersey Devil]

81. Rules & Bylaws may have stripped those delegates, but

as I said, I have read that it is the Credentials Committee that can seat them, not Rules & Bylaws:

I'd like someone to explain to me how this is wrong:

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/02/could_loser_of_popular_vote_co.php

[Jersey Devil]

82. Add this article, also from HuffPo that says it's the credentials comm

Hey, what about those delegates from Michigan and Florida? We've heard their votes aren't going to count. Why not?

Both states were punished by the DNC when they advanced their primary calendars too far ahead of the schedule decided on by the national party and were told that their candidates would not be seated at the convention.

Now the DNC says the state parties in Florida and Michigan have two options if they want their delegates to be seated:


1) Appeal to the Convention Credentials Committee. The Convention Credentials Committee determines and resolves any outstanding questions concerning the seating of delegates and alternates to the Convention. The Credentials Committee is expected to meet sometime in July or August prior to the Convention, when it could take up the matters of Florida and/or Michigan.

Members of the credentials committee are selected by the delegates from each state.


2) Michigan and Florida could still choose to run a new party process (some sort of election or caucus), as Delaware did in 1996, to select delegates to the convention. This process must be held between now and the second Tuesday in June, in accordance with DNC rules.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/13/everything-youve-ever-wa_n_86335.html

[WeDidIt]

84. They are appealing the original R&BC Ruling which stripped the delegates

If the R&BC over rules it's own ruling, the delegates are seated.

It's that simple.

[Jersey Devil]

89. so you are saying they can nullify their own ruling

I don't know about that and still think the premise of the Nuclear Option story in Huffpo may be wrong. If the bylaws say that an appeal must be taken to the Credentials Committee I think that is controlling. I don't think it is as "simple" as you believe. Ultimately, no matter what rules & bylaws does, it is up to the credentials committee to rule on the seating of any delegation.

But even if you are right, another question arises that casts doubt on the Nuclear Option story. If the Rules & Bylaws Committee is so pro-Hillary, then why would they have stripped Mich and Fla in the first place?

[WeDidIt]

96. They stripped the delegates before a single vote was cast

It only became an issue for them when it would help Hillary win.

[grantcart]

38. I disagree 100% the campaign was simply responding to a question

and said yes we think that they should be seated.

The original piece was about jamming it through the rules committee and there is no indication that the Clinton campaign is going to do this.

Actually it is significant that, except for answering questions about it, the Clinton campaign has backed off of the subject and virtually dropped it from the stump.

[mkultra]

40. WARNING: this is polotics as usual

vote for change.

[zulchzulu]

42. If the Clintons wanna play...we can play...

I know that there would be PLENTY of real Democrats who would do the best they could to DESTROY the Clintons once and for all.

If they want to play...well, let's do it.

[WA98070]

55. This is their last chance, last gasp, they finally realized they can't win in 2012...

and probably couldn't even run.

[Avalux]

58. Yep. Let's play.

They must think a lot of us are fools and will fall in behind Hillary no matter what because we are AFRAID McCain might get elected. I will not vote for her, McCain will win the GE and I will do whatever I can to make sure she NEVER runs for president again. Selfish woman.

[JVS]

47. Has Ralph Nader said anything lately? This sounds like his dream scenario.

[RainDog]

66. exactly.

only he won't be the one who has split the vote. she will. he'll only provide a landing space for those who have had it with the Clintons.

[ekwhite]

138. Not Ralph Nader - Cynthia McKinney

I plan to vote Green if Clinton is nominated. A vote for Nader is not a vote for a third party - it is a vote for Nader. A vote for the Greens gets them on the ballot in more places. It may be time for progressive activists to give the Democratic party a raised middle finger.

[anigbrowl]

51. It's not going to bring her enough delegates to cancel Obama's lead though

My rough calculations indicate a net gain of about 60 delegates.

Florida: C: 105 O: 71 E: 34 (maybe - did he hit the 15% threshold?)
Michigan: C: 80 Undecided: 60 - most of which will probably go to Obama, since they already had an option of voting for Clinton and didn't take it

People who think this is a winning play for her seem to forget that the delegates are still allocated proportionally.

[Leopolds Ghost]

126. No, Clinton siezed 75-80% of Michigan's delegates at the state convention.

Over half of the "uncommitted" delegates were awarded to Clinton.

[BlooInBloo]

56. Aaahh.... nothing like the sweet smell of Clintonian spite in the morning.

[Lucky 13]

59. THIRD PARTY.

Carville was right. 1.5 million people isn't a donor's list. It's a political party. She goes the nuclear route and seizes our party? We go start our own. There are principals here way more important than one power-hungry psychopath.

[SurfingAtWork]

60. I just had an interesting thought on this.

I think that they are mostly attempting this to keep $$ flowing into the coffers. The case has been getting harder and harder to make.. and now that they can't even assert that the supers are going to swoop in and save the day for them.. they have to have *Something* that convinces suckers donors to continue to give.

[RainDog]

62. Time for the SUPER DELEGATES

to put an end to her path of destruction. Now. Or, actually, let's say tomorrow night.

she cannot win by actual primary/caucus votes that abided by committee rules. why should she be rewarded any gains from these two states? Makes no sense for the other 48.

"Win at any cost" means she is willing to destroy the democratic party. Therefore, she must be destroyed politically. You do not go against the tide of history with good outcomes.

At this point, since she is trying to go around the will of primary voters, it makes no sense for the super delegates to wait until after the primaries to declare for Obama and put him over the top. By stopping this now, they will stop the implosion of the party. Surely they recognize that, down ticket, Democrats will not benefit from her move - a move that will cause massive amts. of democrats to choose to vote third party or otherwise.

Surely they recognize it is no benefit to the party for her to do this because her campaign is already financially shaky. Such a move will dry up any DNC contributions from the more than one million grassroots supporters who have donated to the Obama campaign.

Surely the DNC's instincts for survival are such they they will stop this NOW. At this point, I am counting on Dean to help end the madness that has become the Clinton campaign. The goal is to win, not for HER to win or no one else.

[WeDidIt]

68. Obama will break 2024.5 delegates BEFORE May 31

So in essence, Obama will have won the jnomination, then Clinton will push her cronies on the Rules and Bylaws Committee to strip him of his win and return stripped delegates froms tates that would not count back to the rolls.

Beautiful statement to the world. The guy can win and back room deals will strip himk of the win.

[Independent-Voter]

72. Wow - what a trainwreck! I certainly hope the Dems can get their shit together soon.

I'm not voting for either McCain or Veruca, period. The pubs have handed you this election on a silver platter, and yet, the dems are finding some way to fuck this up. Unbelievable.

[meow mix]

74. ***Reminder to SD's: Hillary is going to take your decision away from you by force.

time to do something SD

[Khaotic]

75. If It Comes To That ...

I won't vote for her.

If she gets the Democratic nomination that way then I won't vote for the Democratic nominee.

I won't vote McSame either, and I refuse to vote fucking Nader.

The only way I would vote Obama would be if he leaves the Democratic party and goes independent. If his name isn't on the ballot, then he's not in the race.

I don't write in candidates.

So, that said ... I'll probably go Green Party.



I'm doubting that there could possibly be a Libertarian I would vote for, because they don't support public education, and once you examine them, they're usually freaks.

Green Party candidates can be out there too, but McKinney is basically a progressive democrat who has switched to the Green Party because of sellout DLC pieces of shit like Hillary taking over the Democratic Party.

Here in Iowa we had almost a year to look over the candidates, and to tell you the truth Hillary was real far down on the list out of ALL the candidates before even one of them dropped out.

She's proven how low she is and how there's NOTHING or NO ONE she won't pander to.

In November, if Hillary gets the nomination through this 'nuclear option,' then she will NOT have my support and I will vote for another party in the Presidential election for the first time in my life.

It will be a very disturbing and dark day. It won't come easy, but I won't vote for her if that's the way she wins.

That said, let me underscore this ... it will NOT matter who her Vice Presidential pick is, and it will not matter how the party pretends to rally around her.

[npincus]

76. Not if Obama can help it!

German parade float: :rofl:

[WA98296]

79. That float deserves it's own thread! (:

[Khaotic]

83. You couldn't ...

Use enough mouth wash to get the taste of that skank ass out of your mouth.

There's a lot more that will need to be unleashed if she pulls this nuclear option shit!

[WA98296]

86. Cujo endorsement?

[Khaotic]

92. Sure ...

Or call it the Cujo Party.

That's what will form out of the desenters who leave the Democratic Party if she uses this option.

The Green Party will stand to gain a lot.

They have a candidate who is pretty much a Democratic, and a progressive one at that.

I wouldn't have heartburn about voting for McKinney.

However, I won't kid myself. I don't think the Green Party is ready for prime time and they don't have enough support at the state levels to mobilize and beat McSame.

But I won't vote for Hillary based solely on the fact she's a Democrat, especially if she pulls this shit.

I predict that McKinney could come from nowhere if this happens. I think she will get a lot of support from Democrats who feel disenfranchised.

She could start showing up in polls and find as much support from disenfranchised Dems as Perot did from disenfranchised Republicans in '92.

I think Nader is done. He's a joke and there's no reason to support him. He lost the support of the Green Party and the Independent Party doesn't even really exist. When Ventura left the National Independent Party they were nothing.

Yep, if Hillary pulls this it is indeed time to go Cujo and that might mean supporting McKinney for President.

[TragedyandHope]

85. I'm dreaming of a nuclear winter

[totodeinhere]

88. If this happens it will be one of the saddest days in our country's history.

It would mean the end of a great political party. And it mean what would be tantamount to a third term for Bush. It would be so tragic.

[sfam]

91. I'd actually put Dec 7, 1941 and 9/11 as worse days...many others too...

I think we're probably over-hyping this. What it really means is yet another degree of ratcheting up the angst and an even larger chance for McCain to win. I certainly don't see it as the death of the Democratic Party.

[Freedom Train]

115. Yeah, right.

Prone to hyperbole, are we?

The Rules & Bylaws Committee can settle this however they want, and it would be according to any and all rules you can think of. Hillary will legitimately be our nominee. And you can either deal with that and get in line behind her, or help the Rethuglicans retain the White House - in which case I suggest you leave Democratic Underground now.

[Leopolds Ghost]

127. "Hillary WILL legitimately be our nominee according to any rules you can think of."

I guess we better leave.

[totodeinhere]

134. If she gets the nomination through nefarious means, then IMO...

DU would be forced to change it's rules to allow criticism of the illegitimate nominee. If they didn't IMO they would lose most of their members and there would be no more DU.

[rufus dog]

93. Looks like we need to work hard to get Obama elected

and pick up 12 Senate Seats, then strip Lieberman and Clinton of all power.

[AZBlue]

94. If the Democratic Party allows this to happen, I will leave it.

[sfam]

98. What exactly can they do to stop it? If Hillary's supporters want to destroy this election cycle...

there isn't much anyone can do about it. You seem to be thinking that people actually listen to Howard Dean and that he can raise his scepter and call a halt to this. I haven't found evidence that ANYONE listens to him. Have you?

[rodeodance]

99. obviously the campaigns know the PROCESS, stay tuned.

[WA98296]

95. Is somebody in the DNC reading these responses? Dems are PISSED.

[CakeGrrl]

97. If they're trying to shove an illegal primary through, the SDs need to neutralize her.

If she somehow manages to pull it off, I will write in Obama. She will not get my vote by stealing the nomination at any cost to the party.

[WA98296]

112. I agree with you about the SDs, if this is what her camp is going to attempt.

[wiggs]

100. If she tries it, it must be that she's counted votes on the rules committee behind

the scenes and knows she'll be successful. You don't try a harebrained scheme without doing your homework.

[totodeinhere]

135. But Obama could appeal it all the way to the convention floor.

And if he has enough votes on the floor then he could overturn it. And if he doesn't have enough votes on the floor then it wouldn't matter because he wouldn't get the nomination anyway. And BTW, as long as it's being appealed those two delegations would not be seated and under that scenario Obama should have enough seated delegates to prevail.

[gmudem]

103. She'll have no chance of winning the general if she does this

Tons and tons of Democrats WILL NOT vote for her. She will absolutely destroy the Democrats chances in November. Hopefully superdelegates will realize that they all need to endorse Obama for the good of the party and the country.

Hillary just wants power, and those who think she gives a shit about anybody else besides her are extremely gullible.

[Cha]

106. Oh, and some on here yesterday

were giving hilary the benefit of the doubt that she was making plans to bow out gracefully!!?!

Fuck her.

[Downtown Hound]

107. I think this story is bullshit. n/t

[BigDDem]

110. The sky is falling!!

Nuclear, nuclear!!!!!!
BOOOOOOOOO!!!


:rofl:

[kwenu]

117. Thank you, HILLARY! You've now sealed your own DOOM!

The SDs may very well put on the capes and superhero costumes after all to combat this villainy.

[BootinUp]

123. Good!

Seat those delegates. Its long after Feb 5th and long over due. She should continue to press the issue. Call it what you will, nuclear, armageddon, delegate seating, I could care less.

[dansolo]

124. It won't matter

Even if she gets everything she wants with the FL and MI delegates, she will still need more than a majority of superdelegates to get the nomination. As long as Obama gets the majority of pledged delegates, which I am confident he will even with Hillary's shenanigans, he will get the nomination. A lot of the fence sitters are waiting for one of them to get the majority of pledged delegates. They may be uncommitted publicly at this point, but it doesn't mean that they haven't already decided who they will support.

[Snarkoleptic]

129. She'll have a long career in the tabloid press after imploding...

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

133. If she does, she blasts not only herself, but the democratic party goes up in flames as well...

[JCMach1]

140. You are right: please see my post

:(

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5836009