I think we should continue to Swift-boat Sen. Obama

[Guava Jelly]

Because then we get to hear a 37 minute beautiful speech that is talked about all throughout the media.
Hell if you think about it He got free campaigning time and owned this news cycle.
You can't buy this type of positive exposure..
I'll start the next swift-boating campaign
"I like puppies,I like them baked and stuffed with a yummy oyster and mushroom stuffing"..Sen Obama (not)

[Life Long Dem]

1. He has a speech today on Iraq. I don't know what time though.

[Guava Jelly]

2. Can't wait to hear it.

:D

[shadowknows69]

3. CNN going to be covering it again?

[Guava Jelly]

4. I don't know

But I am sure it will be on youtube later

[mmonk]

9. You can see his speech at abc11.com I belive.

It's an NC affiliate.

[Bentcorner]

5. Didn't "swiftboating" Kerry involve saying things about him that were not true?

How is this even applicable in this case? What has been said about Obama that is factually not true about him or his "moral compass"?

[Guava Jelly]

8. What has been said about him is carefully selected and twisted

B.S. that isn't said to expose anything it is said to imply something.
On that note...His moral compass is fine..

[Bentcorner]

10. Really? What was twisted? Everything I've heard concerning Jeremiah Wright

-- the man he calls his "moral compass" -- came right from Jeremiah Wright's mouth. The things said about Kerry (the "swiftboating") were things that were factually incorrect.

That's not the case with this situation.

[Guava Jelly]

11. I don't know? Maybe 3 or 4 soundbites from several hundreds of sermons

I found it refreshing that Sen.Obama didn't throw Wright under the bus..It would have been so easy to do.
But he didn't.

I'll leave you with a quote from one of my favorite movies
"I'm not a judge or jury. But I can tell you this: he won't sell anybody out to buy his future!! And that, my friends, is called integrity! That's called courage! Now that's the stuff leaders should be made of" Al Pacino scent of a woman

[Bentcorner]

14. They aren't just soundbites. As Barack Obama says, "Words Matter".

Once again, how has anything been twisted? Jeremiah Wright said what he said.

[Guava Jelly]

15. It is twisted because they aren't heard in their entirety

If I said "I hate Americans" in a several hundred word speech and that is all you heard then you weren't listening.
Maybe I said "I hate Americans attitudes regarding race"

The issue is dead and you are beating a sad dead horse..
And if you still are outraged over this it tells me more about you than about the words of an Ex Marine turned Preacher.

[Bentcorner]

16. The issue is not a dead horse. To many Americans, this isn't just going away with a speech.

I find it ironic that we have no problem condemning awful things said by the likes of Rush Limbaugh or Ann Coulter. Not once have I heard a fellow Democrat say that their words were twisted because we didn't hear what they said in it's entirety. And I'm not trying to excuse anything those two or the many like them have said over the years. I find the things Limbaugh and Coulter to be just as offensive as what Wright said.

And I'm sorry, but the fact that he is a former Marine (nobody is ever an ex-Marine) isn't relevant. For example, Lee Harvey Oswald was a Marine. Many of us have served in the military. That doesn't give us a free pass from saying deplorable things.

This wouldn't be worth talking about if Obama had already locked up the nomination. Neither he nor Clinton will be able to secure the number of delegates needed before the Democratic Convention. The superdelegates will have to pick or nominee. My hope is that they choose the candidate that has the best chance in beating McCain. I used to think that was Obama. Now, I'm not sure.

[Guava Jelly]

18. Would you rather him march Wright out to a field

and put a bullet in his head?

For some nothing will ever be enough..

[Bentcorner]

22. No. Why would you say something like that?

[Guava Jelly]

25. I am just trying to settle an injustice.

And make you smile :D

[Bentcorner]

26. Why would be accused of wanting to murder someone over some dumb things they've said make me smile?

[Guava Jelly]

28. Sen Obama denounced the statements of Rev .Wright

But it will never be enough for those who are outraged over the fact that a certain group in our country feels this way.
We have a shameful past regarding race..And Rev Wright had a right to say what he did.
Obama denounced them as divisive and they were.I almost wish that he didn't but that is politics

Why is it so wrong to love the man and hate the word?

[Bentcorner]

34. It's not about the statements and it's not about race.

It's about Obama's judgment. Why would he chose a man with that particular outlook to be his so-called moral compass? To baptize his children?

[Tyler Durden]

36. Or advise on his campaign?

Guilt by association is wrong, but it is a canon of politics: you ARE who you "Run" with.

[Guava Jelly]

44. Maybe because he knows Rev Wright to be a good man.

You do not know Rev Wright.
All you know of the man is the 1/2 a dozen sound bites you have heard.

And on that note..
He will make a fine President..

[Bentcorner]

45. Wow, there is such a double-standard going on here. For years, we

have all made judgments about people because of the stuff they've said. Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Ann Coulter, etc. Why can't we hold the people our candidates surround themselves with to the same standards?

[Tyler Durden]

48. Because it's OBAMA.

Didn't you get the memo?

[Guava Jelly]

53. In that case you should be angry at the Clintons for going on Rush Limbaughs show

And btw..you are way off base on this one..

[Bentcorner]

54. You are really not following this are you? Why would I be angry if the Clintons go on Limbaugh?

Did you think I was defending Limbaugh or Hannity or Coulter? I wasn't doing that. I was pointing out how we routinely criticize these people for the things they say. We should be able to do the same for the people on our side of the aisle. We shouldn't have two sets of standards.

To criticize Barack Obama for associating himself with someone like Rev. Wright is not "swiftboating" him as you claim. People like me that have a huge problem with Barack's judgment about Rev. Wright aren't making stuff up. Believe me, I wish that were the case.

If you think a candidate who has attended a church for the last 17 years were the paster stood behind the pulpit and said things like "God Damn America" can win a general election, you are kidding yourself.

[Tyler Durden]

47. Hope you're right.

A lot more than 1/2 dozen sound bites out there.

Personal opinion: in this day and age, Rev. Wright is an asshole. If I see him in the White House in January 2009, I'm leaving the party.

[demokatgurrl]

43. Oh really?

"Not once have I heard a fellow Democrat say that their words were twisted because we didn't hear what they said in its entirety. "
Clinton? Both Clintons? MRS. Obama/ And those are the ones that immediately come to mind. Bill clinton did it just yesterday about his remarks in South Carolina.
I'm sure there are others- no one likes being quoted out of context, Dem or Rep.

However I do agree about the Marine thing- Wasn't the guy who blew up the OKlahoma govt building (name has slipped my mind) a former Marine? Haven't there been treasonous acts in this very Iraq wartime by service members against their own fellow soldiers?

[knixphan]

50. It's twisted.

Twisted because, no matter what you think of those words... Those are not Barack's words.

They're someone else's.

Barack is a grown-ass man.

He made the point clearly that he marches to his own drum.

If white men can march to a non-racist drum despite having a racist family, then Barack can march to his own drum, despite having a *former pastor with debateable policy views.

[MethuenProgressive]

20. Yep. Like saying over and over that the Clintons are racists.

Obama's Swiftboating of the Clintons on race matched the GOP's success of the Swiftboating of Kerry on his military record.

[Guava Jelly]

23. Nobody in their right mind would believe Clinton is a racist

Or that Sen Obama is a Radical Black man..
God the fucking hatred is thick in here..:eyes:

[Tyler Durden]

31. You're just finding that out?

CRIPES GPU. This has been going on for MONTHS.

Welcome to the chimp cage, where if we aren't throwing shit at each other, we're masturbating.

Personally I'm looking toward another election handed to the Republicans on a silver platter.

[Guava Jelly]

32. yeah no shit

This place is a den of poo slingers.

[SammyWinstonJack]

41. You sling no poo?

:shrug:

[Guava Jelly]

42. I sling at thee what is slung at me

you see.

[karynnj]

56. This is Clinton reframing -

People have said the Clintons played the race card. You can evaluate that claim by looking at the Bill Clinton and other surrogate comments. There is a huge gap between "being racist", which the Clintons aren't and "playing the race card" - an action that the media has called them on.

The "being racist" is the strawman argument they want - they will win that. That however was not the issue.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

27. The Clintons are not necessarily racists, they're race baiters - big difference.

[knixphan]

51. exactly!

[karynnj]

55. Can you cite specific lies that Obama - or even his team said of the Clintons?

It was the media that deemed Bill Clinton's comments to be race baiting. Personally, I think they were borderline, carefully crafted so Bill Clinton could bite his lip and say that he had not intended them that way. It didn't work and the media called him on it. The comments are available and can be listened to and people can parse them as they will. (I did not think that HRC's LBJ/MLK was the least bit racist - what I did see it as was the consummate insider's view - giving ultimate credit to the President who signed the law instead of the equally needed movement people who created the demand for change and the people, who earlier quietly wrote the legislation needed.)

I don't think the Clintons are racist. There is absolutely no history of that - and much to counter it. I think the truth may be that Bill Clinton was used by the campaign to subtly play the race card. In addition to diminishing Bill Clinton, it backfired politically. There are comments by BC and Clinton surrogates that play the race card. It was never in Obama's interest to have race a factor. Other than an internal memo that compiled those real comments - that any competent campaign would have compiled, I don't see anything Obama or his campaign has said that even comes close to touching this.

This is NOT swiftboating. Bill Clinton is NOT Kerry here. In fact, it was Bill Clinton who complemented Rove weeks after the 2004 election for how he ran the campaign and Wolfson, who is on record saying that swiftboating works. What this whole the Clintons are being swiftboated nonsense is is an attempt to answer the attacks by getting them defined by that word as political, untrue and unfair. Here, the comments exist, were said and can be evaluated - we are not speaking of 35 year old events where the entire official record shows an exemplary record.

[democrattotheend]

40. Not entirely

I know I will probably get raked over the coals for this, but I did a paper on the Swiftboat Veterans a couple years ago, and not everything they said about Kerry was entirely untrue. But the way in which it was distorted and the fact that it was brought up at all was offensive.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

Swiftboating Kerry...

was an attempt to portray Kerry as a coward who didn't really earn the medals he won.

Swiftboating Obama was an attempt to portray him as an anti-white racist who hates America.

Both are equally untrue, ridiculous, and underscore the total lack of decency in those who keep them up.

[Danger Mouse]

6. He likes his baked puppies...with a side of roasted kittens.

[Guava Jelly]

7. puurfect addition

:D

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

12. Obama is a master tactician, unlike Hillary, who always follows her base Rovian instincts.

[Kokonoe]

13. Ok...Um... Obama inspires a hopeful future and spreads

love, but yesterday, he never once told us, in fact, we are all going to die. :thumbsup:

[Perry Logan]

17. Where has be been swiftboated? His screw-ups have been his own doing.

[high density]

19. You mean Obama's pastor's comments have been Obama's doing?

Yeah, that's the ticket... in Republican Fox News land, at least.

[Perry Logan]

24. Do you deny that there are real issues of judgement, hypocrisy, and stupidity in the Wright affair?

"Swiftboating" implies that the facts were being distorted or made up. Kerry was a hero, and the Swiftboaters tried to make it appear otherwise.

But that isn't happening here. The Wright connection is incontestably real. If it takes Obama down, it isn't because the wingers made it up.

[high density]

29. You said "his screw-ups have been his own doing."

Yet this last "screw-up" was made by his pastor and given a megaphone by the likes of Sean Hannity. Then we had NewsMax and that Bill Kristol tell us erroneously that Obama was lying about not being at a specific sermon. It's a manufactured controversy and it followed the Swiftboaters in using the media to get virtually infinite free airtime for something that was damaging, or supposed to be damaging at least, to one of the candidates.

A guilt by association attack certainly seems in the same vain as the Swiftboaters in my opinion.

[Tyler Durden]

33. His screw up is Political Immaturity, without experience on his team.

This is not to say that, Dog Willing, if he got elected he didn't have a chance of being a good president. This is to say that his CAMPAIGN and his SUPPORTERS are inexperienced.

This leads to the Naive attitude that "telling the truth" (whatever THAT is) will get you elected. What he has done is to take another 100 pound of handicap on his horse.

Example: was Ferraro wrong? Well, not really. Was she not "tactful?" YES, definitely. So Ferraro is being sacrificed for telling the truth BADLY. Remember, she was FINANCIAL, not ADVISORY.

Example: was the Rev. Wright wrong? Well, not really. Was he not "tactful?" YES, definitely. Was he "sacrificed for the good of the campaign?" No. Was this a mistake? Yes, possibly fatal. Wright WAS ADVISORY, and African American Religious Community Committee or whatever it was called. Just a question from the fat, old, atheist white guy: What is Obama doing even HAVING such a committee?

So...Obama, advised to "throw Rev. Wright under the bus," didn't. SURE he risked some Black support by doing so, but he stood to gain in other communities, and his refusal to do so (my way or the highway) SURELY alienated some members of those groups. Was this a net gain or loss? Time will tell, but I don't see this as a plus: I think if he did the politically expedient thing of jettisoning Wright, he would have seen a net gain.

My opinion, but I've been right before.

[high density]

37. His "inexperienced" campaign has pushed the super-experienced Hillary campaign off the rails

I think any people who aren't voting for Obama because of Wright had plenty of other reasons not to vote for him as well. They can say this was the last straw or whatever, but I think there are insanely few single issue voters on Wright given the way it has been handled so far.

It's about time we have a presidential candidate that finally stops putting "politically expedient" ideas above the right thing to do. I know the hypothetical voters in Joe Scarborough's head don't like this, but I think it's a refreshing change myself.

[Tyler Durden]

38. Can ANYONE in that camp discuss something about Obama WITHOUT bringing up HRC??????

What is WITH you people?

And who says we don't want the same thing YOU DO (of course, a little support for the 14th amendment would be NICE...)????

And a race where the difference is about 10% in delegates, with MOST of one Candidate's wins in RED STATES that won't vote Democratic anyway is a little dubious, but I digress and do not say this to stir the pot.

As to insanely single issue voters, I'm in that camp, at least as far as the 14th amendment goes, but nobody running is supporting it, so....

[high density]

39. What is it with you people repeating the same crap over and over?

Obama is inexperienced and his campaign is stupid. Check.

Obama wins states that don't matter. Check.

Obama people are mean for bringing up the fact that he's winning against HRC. Check.

[Tyler Durden]

46. Glad we agree on 2 out of 3.

Now maybe we can both shut up now.

[Guava Jelly]

21. riiiiight

I've already talked to a brick wall up thread..
and btw
You are doing a smashup job echoing right wing talking points..:yourock:

[Tyler Durden]

35. Friend, he echoes nothing but that Obama screwed up...and he did.

He went into politics with baggage GUARANTEED to alienate hundreds of thousands if not millions.

We as a country should not be PROUD of this fact, but FACT IT IS, and to deny it and not deal with it is to lose elections.

Don't do what the others have done. Perry merely said Obama screwed up, and screw up he did. This isn't RW; it's fact. UNPLEASANT, but fact.

[knixphan]

52. and after he's sworn in...

I'm sure we'll continue to debate his baggage.

[cooolandrew]

30. Not really sure about that idea, but good effort.

[Capn Sunshine]

49. oh Damn, they're on to our strategy

LOL