The problem with Rev. Wright is that he didn't tell the whole story

[journalist3072]

I just made this point in another thread, but I think it's worth stating again in my own thread.

The problem I have with Rev. Wright is that he didn't tell the whole story.

I was thinking earlier today about how thankfully, I, as an African-American, never had to endure going to water fountains or restrooms that said Colored Only. I've never been forced to the back of a bus or had tear gas poured on me.

The fact that I've never had those experiences is not because of anything I've did. It's because I had brave ancestors who paved the way for me, so that I might enjoy a better life than they did.

But for the people of my parents and grandparents generation who did have those experiences, I think there is still a lot of pain. And I think Rev. Wright is an example of someone who still carries that pain.

However, his comments, specifically the one he made from the pulpit about "Hillary's never been called a (racial expletive)" trouble me becaue they don't tell the whole story.

Does she know what it's like to be an African-American? Of course not.

But Hillary Rodham Clinton certainly knows what it is like to have your government make judgements on you based NOT on the quality of your character or how hard you've worked...but to make judgements on you based solely on your outside appearance.

When she was a young girl, Hillary Rodham wanted to become an astronaut. And she wrote to NASA to ask them what she needed to do to prepare to become an astronaut; what type of classes, etc. she would need. NASA replied and told her they weren't interested in female astronauts, so she need not apply.

So, don't tell me she doesn't know what it's like to have your country devalue you based on how you look.

Even more still, he didn't tell the story of how Hillary Rodham had a youth minister who taught her (and the other youth in the church) that there was a whole other world out there than the one they had been exposed to.

Hillary Rodham's youth minister, Rev. Don Jones, took her and other youth to hear Rev. Martin Luther King speak, and she got to shake his hand.

And as author Judith Warner states so eloquently in her book "Hillary Clinton: The Inside Story"--

"A great deal happened in the world during the last six months of her senior year in high school. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., had the led march on Selma, Alabama. For the first time northerners had seen fire hoses and police dogs raining hate on African Americans down South. Hillary Rodham, who only two years before had shook Dr. King's hand, saw white policeman in storm trooper boots using cattle prods on peaceful black and white demonstrators, saw federal troops called in to keep the peace. Such images did not fail to make a mark on her."

[Rockholm]

1. Very nice post. K&R

[Nitrogenica]

2. Perhaps then Hillary should be talking about things like this more often.

Especially now that this topic has been thrust into the public arena.

[Ronnie]

35. Perhaps it's because

every time she mentions race, she's called a racist.

[polmaven]

52. And perhaps because

every time she mentions her gender she is accused of "whining" about sexism. Just look at this board alone. And it is all over the MSM as well. All she has to do is SAY the word "female" and they jump all over it as proof that she is "playing the gender card" is a "whiny" way...You know, just like "feminists" do....Why, on THIS board she has even been referred to as a "Feminazi".

[Tellurian]

44. Yes, great suggestion..

I would hope Hillary uses this post showing how not all AAs feel and espouse Wright's incendiary hate as a purposeful nor desirable disposition for interracial harmony.

[againes654]

3. I understand what you are saying but,

what would make you thing that Rev. Wright had any reason to "tell the whole story". Obama is a member of his church, he isn't going to research HRC, and "tell her story to be fair". It just isn't something I think you should expect from a man like Wright.

[journalist3072]

5. I think that he had an obligation to tell the whole story. But he chose to ignore that obligation.

Instead, in a violation of his church's tax-exempt status, he endorsed Obama from the pulpit and said "Hillary ain't never been called a (racial expletive.)"

And again, as I stated, I believe he had the obligation to tell the whole story. The fact of the matter is that both Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton know what it is like to have your govnerment make judgements on you based on your outward appearance, whether it's your color or your gender.

[againes654]

16. You are correct

but exactly who is this obligation to? Jesus, maybe, so he isn't lying in God's house, but who else? Obama, so as not to damage his campaign? Maybe.

I am pretty sure that Hillary has never been called a n****. Other than the offensivness of that word, where is he wrong?

Yes Hillary knows what is like for the government to judge her, but she never had to step off the curb to let a man walk past her. She never had to eat in a seperate cafe from men. Or sit in the back of the bus from where the men sit. There is more that that story than just the government, so follow your own advice here.

I am not debating that women have been discriminated against, I am a women myself, but it has never been, nor will it ever be on the same level as blacks.

[polmaven]

53. He has to "research" HRC

to see that she is a woman? He has to "research" HRC to know that women have been mistreated as well?

He doesn't have to be HRC to "tell her story". He only needs to recognize the treatment women endured for so long.

[Avalux]

4. Then why isn't she speaking out against this ridiculous hatefest against Wright?

I would at least expect her to unite with her fellow Democrat to squash the rampant racism flying around. Many of her supporters are joining in and that just isn't right.

[spooky3]

24. Maybe because he personally attacked her and her husband

in a very disgusting way (as well as denying the reality of sexism she faces every day in order to make points about racism)? Maybe despite the legitimacy of some of his points, because other comments were very offensive and that he first needs to take responsibility for saying them and apologizing? Maybe because Wright deserves many of the things said about him?

Guess you should raise your question to her.

I have not see her fellow Democrats (Obama, Kerry, Kennedy, Dean, or even my favorite Edwards, or others) speak out when sexist comments have been directed at her during this campaign. I am not about to impose an expectation on her that goes well beyond what has been expected of any of them, and that none of them have fulfilled.

[journalist3072]

26. Amen!!!!!! I agree. eom

[Little Star]

6. Thank goodness I read your post. It was kind and insightful. I

have been having a hard time trying not to let my anger harden. You have brought tears to my eyes and relieved a pain in my heart.
I really want to find something to like about Barack, it has not come yet, I wish it would hurry up. I wish he were of the same caliber as Rep. John Lewis of SC, I could be there in a heartbeat.

[Berry Cool]

7. One of my issues with Wright is that he stooped to playing the "I am more oppressed than you" game.

As in: "Let's set up a contest in which we determine who is oppressed more, a black man or a white woman. The winner: the black man, because no one ever calls a white woman the N word."

The basic gist of his argument is that if you come from a relatively wealthy background and you're white, you can't possibly know what being discriminated against is like, even if you're a woman.

I find that to be pure nonsense. No, you sure don't have a clue what it's like to be discriminated against for your skin color, but you sure as heck do know what it's like to be discriminated against on the basis of sex. And he never even begins to acknowledge that. I imagine it's because he's a man, and it simply doesn't occur to him--the same way it doesn't naturally occur to white people how black people are discriminated against merely by the circumstances of their society.

For that reason, I try to be understanding of where he's coming from. However, he could probably benefit from a bit of the same kind of consciousness-raising in that area that he'd like white people to try.

[spooky3]

25. agree

[polmaven]

54. You are right there.

and no, no one ever calls Hillary the "N' word. I would ask Reverend Wright anyone has called Barack the "C" word? How often has someone set up a whole blog calling Barack the "C" word?

I do have to disagree somewhat that because I am a white woman I don't know what it is like for black people to be discriminated against merely because of the circumstances of their society.

I have been discriminated against merely because of the circumstances of my society.

It was not always unlawful for a husband to beat his wife.

It was not always unlawful for a husband to force a woman to have sex with him at his whim. It was not always called the rape that it is.

Domestic violence, as a matter of fact, was not something the police could do anything about, UNLESS it was a woman assaulting her husband.

It was not always to reject a woman for a job because she is a woman.

IT IS STILL NOT ALLOWED in some religious institutions to ordain women.

Women have been, and in many cases still are, considered to be the "property" of their husbands and/or fathers. Just look at the still fairly common practice of a father "giving" his daughter in marriage.

I am not saying that racism is not still a very real occurrence in our society. It is real and it is undeniable. Misogyny is real too, though....still very real...."I will not vote for ANY woman president" is, I think, still an acceptable statement in this society.

OK....rant over. At least until the next time. This 55+ woman has fought the fight for too long a time to let it go now.

[oasis]

8. I nominate your post for "Thread of the Week" honors.

:toast:

[ecstatic]

9. Is that why she embraced Goldwater?

:shrug:

[journalist3072]

19. Read my response to silverweb for your answer. eom

[silverweb]

10. Sure, that makes sense.

All those experiences in racial sensitivity led her to become...

...a Goldwater Girl who was against the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

How touching. :crazy:

[journalist3072]

13. Once again...an Obama supporter NOT telling the whole story

Like many children, she intially took the political leanings of a parent.

Her father was conservative, and she grew up in conservative Park Ridge. Turn to page 23 in her autobiography Living History, where she writes "Though my eyes were opening, I still mostly parroted the conventional wisdom of Park Ridge's and my father's politics."

But that was PRECISELY my point about Rev. Don Jones. He showed Hillary Rodham and the other youth that there was a whole other world out there than the one they were being exposed to in Park Ridge.

THAT'S why he took them to see Dr. King.

And she also writes that when Rev. Jones took them into Chicago to Black and Hispanic churches, she realized that she had more in common with her Black and Hispanic counterparts, than she realized.

Here's what she wrote in her book:

"We visisted black and hispanic churches in Chicago's inner city for exchanges with their youth groups.

In the discussions we ahd sitting around church basements, I learned that, despite the obvious differences in our environments, these kids were more like me that I ever could have imagined." (Pages 22-23)

So again, I say to you---tell the whole story. Although I'm guessing that you have no clue what the whole story is.

Hillary Rodham arrived at Wellsley college a Goldwater girl. That's no secret. As she said, she parroted her dad's politics.

But she left Wellsley as a Eugene McCarthy convert.

If you read Judith Warner's book, turn to page, where a friend of Hillary's, Kris Rogers, talks about their transformations, and the difficulty of going back home.

"All of us talked about the difficulties of going home again," reflects Kris Rogers of that time. "Our personal evolutions mirrored so much of what was going on in the times, and we all went through conflicts- my dad voted for Goldwater. We were asking ourselves: how can we be children of these parents?- but then realizing that we very much were."

[Bluenorthwest]

43. Thom Hartmann

Was a Goldwater guy back then. That radical conservative Thom Hartmann. Worked on the Goldwater campaign. Like Hillary he was very young. And he is no longer young, nor a conservative.
Just saying.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

11. Best thread I have read all week.....thank you for your very thoughful mind and kind heart

[juajen]

12. Very nice post and thanks for pointing out some "truths" about Hillary

While Hillary was a senior in high school, I was four years out of high school and working as a secretary in downtown Birmingham, Alabama. My life would be forever changed by the treatment I watched Dr. King and his marchers receive on my street.

The front doors of our business were padlocked, but were all glass. We were worried that bricks would be thrown through the glass. We saw the marchers in the street, the dogs and highway patrolman on the sidewalks, supposedly protecting white businesses on either side of the street. I watched Dr. King in all his magnificence and his followers and supporters bravely march down that street with dangerous people watching. It was a terrible time and a lot of very good people realized that their convictions were not based on their beliefs, but that of their parents.

I was one of those people forever changed, and, eventually, left all of this horror behind me. Dreams of the mistreatment of the marchers, the frightening bricks thrown in the windows of white people's cars if they came too close, the bullhorn of Bull Conner, the dogs, the firehoses; and, worst of all, the bombing of the church and the killing of innocent children will remain with me forever, and the experience colors everything I did afterward and now. I raised my children to hate no one because of the color of their skin, and I did everything I could to make sure Dr. Martin Luther King was a respected historical figure in our household. I am white and aware that my history was very different, though with different struggles.

No struggle makes us different from other people who struggle. We need to love and try to understand all of those people and the individual roads we all have walked. Being a democrat should make us proud, as so many of us struggle every day to be better people and more understanding of the heartaches of others.

I love being an elder American. Though I am older than Hillary by about 6 years, we both personally experienced black America during its most traumatic time; the thrill and danger of the movement and the horror and sadness of the deaths of Dr. King and JFK and RFK, and the turmoil of those times are horrific and mind boggling.

I will take my history living life above all of you young whippershappers in an instant. Perhaps you should be looking for a leader with these kinds of eye opening experiences to lead you, rather than untried young people, who lack maturity and judgment.

Most of us Hillary supporters are not against Obama, we're just against Obama now. A lot of us have lived long enough to appreciate the wisdom of years. He's too young, McCain is a pug and too old, but Hillary, my gosh, is wonderful and just right. Our first woman President and one who has had amazing experiences of history in the making and is ready to make her own.

Jump on board children, jump on board.

[journalist3072]

14. No, thank YOU for YOUR post. eom

[NastyRiffraff]

17. I recommended this thread...wish I could rec this individual post, too

Your experiences touched me, juajen. I'm a bit younger than you, in fact I'm Hillary's age, but I remember going to Alabama after I was married...it was 1965. It was the first time I'd ever been in the deep South. I didn't see any violence there, but I was shocked at the signs..."Colored only" for water fountains, blacks still riding in the back of busses, forced to the balcony in theaters, not allowed to even eat in restaurants.

I was very young and naive...I couldn't believe what I was seeing. Truthfully, I hadn't paid much attention to the civil rights struggles before this; I lived in my own white, selfish little world. I didn't hate blacks, or think less of them; I just didn't think of them at all. At the time, in the outskirts of DC that I just left, you rarely saw anyone other than whites, except for maids. And I never wondered why. It was simply a different form of segretation than I was seeing in Alabama, where it was pervasive and couldn't be avoided.

This is why I resent it when the race card is played. I think the Obama camp has played it shamelessly. And now it's catching up to them; there's no way to blame Rev. Wright on Hillary (however hard some people on DU are trying).

(edited for a stupid typo)

[juajen]

21. Isn't that unreal? We were there at the same time.

I was that young starry-eyed newlywed walking down the street, beautiful and full of life, not knowing any of the heartache in front of me.

Perhaps it's best that we not know; so, I will not be going to an astrologist to find out who will be President or if I will live to see a woman in the oval office.

Thanks all for your kind remarks about my post. It was heartfelt.



Juajen

[Berry Cool]

42. Your post is a good example of how it is possible for a white person to see racism

and be aware of it and be revulsed by it, even without having experienced it. And Hillary would of course be aware of it and how deadly it could be, even without experiencing it herself.

Unlike you, I don't consider Obama a "whippersnapper" or an "untried young person who lacks maturity and judgment." It's not as if he's 20something. He's 46...my age. He's developed some "wisdom of the years." I disagree that he is "too young" and that Hillary is "my gosh, wonderful and just right," and for that reason I will not "jump on board" with you.

But at the same time, I think it is wrong to say she has no idea whatsoever what it's like to be discriminated against, and that's largely because she's a woman, and ALL women share that.

[juajen]

57. Uh oh, I forgot to answer the "whippersnapper" remark.

My dear, I am 67 years old. To me, he is a whippersnapper, with little or no judgment. Witness this latest flap. If he had good judgment and wanted to go into politics, don't you think he could have gone to a less controversial church. A President of these United States has to represent all the people, not just black America. This is what is turning off whites. They do not think they will be represented, or, indeed, if he even knows what middle class white America is; and, I believe, though I may be wrong, that we still are in the majority. I also do not believe that he would represent latinos well. This is where age comes in. The longer you live, the more experience you have with different aspects of American life. I hope you understand what I'm trying to say better now.

[Irishonly]

51. Wow, just wow eom

[oasis]

64. DU Double Bonus: Juajen's Post of the Week on the Thread of the Week.

:bounce:

[mtnsnake]

15. Beautiful!

Thanks, journalist :)

[Tatiana]

18. This is a valid point.

But I think Wright's overarching point is that people look at Obama and see "media darling" and "privileged Ivy Leaguer." Nothing could be further from the truth. As a black male in American society, he's had to overcome much more than the average person to get where he is today.

Hillary Clinton (or unnamed white female) won't get pulled over for being female.

Hillary Clinton (or unnamed white female) isn't likely to get a harsher sentence in the criminal justice system.

Hillary Clinton (or unnamed white female) will have an easier time getting a loan or credit.

Hillary Clinton (or unnamed white female) won't have an empty taxi pass her up.

Hillary Clinton (or unnamed white female) will get served in a restaurant.

These are just a few examples of the discrimination that people of color STILL face, no matter how many class action lawsuits we file and win. Hillary Clinton (or unnamed white female) would not have been dragged to her death in Jasper, Texas.

The United States is the only country in the Western world that has this level of discrimination based on the color of one's skin. So, yes, it would have been a good thing if Wright had told the "whole" story. But it doesn't minimize the truth of some of what he did say. Maybe no one had the guts to say it, but I'm sure a lot of people thought "G-d Damn America" when we invaded Iraq. Or during the 1953 coup d'état against the democratically elected Iranian government. Or during the Chilean coup d'état of 1973 which overthrew Allende's democratically elected government. Or during the failed Venezuelan coup attempt of 2002 against Chavez's democratically elected government.

If people only studied and learned history they would see why a good portion of the world has reason to say "G-d Damn America."

[juajen]

27. My son, who has long hair is treated badly in this area because

he does not look like the norm. I have seen no restaurant refuse to serve a person of color in So. Louisiana, and no one targeted any less than my long haired hippie type son. My single daughters have no problem getting any kind of credit, so, you might have a legitimate point there, and job selection I'm sure is better if you're white, which is wrong.

However, it is my contention that Barack Obama looks every inch the aristocratic young man that he is, and I'm sure would have no problems in "White America." It is also my contention that we are now sorta light brown-whitish America. We are so many colors, latinos contributing even more to our color. So perhaps it's time to stop with the "White America" bullshit. I never think of Bill Richardson or Barack as anything but Americans. I know everyone doesn't think as I do, but there it is. It's a beginning, you know, the place we all start, but are not there yet.

[Tatiana]

36. I'm so glad you responded. Your viewpoint explains a lot.

JUSTICE DEPARTMENT SETTLES RACE DISCRIMINATION LAWSUIT AGAINST CRACKER BARREL RESTAURANT CHAIN
WASHINGTON, D.C. - The Department of Justice today announced the filing and settlement of a lawsuit alleging racial discrimination against African-American customers by Cracker Barrel Old Country Store, Inc., a nationwide family restaurant chain. In the agreement, memorialized in a consent order filed with the United States District Court for the Northern District of Georgia, Cracker Barrel commits to implementing far reaching changes to policies and practices, to prevent discrimination.

The Justice Department’s complaint alleges that Cracker Barrel violated Title II of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 by engaging in a pattern or practice of discrimination against African-American customers and prospective customers on the basis of their race or color. Specifically, the complaint alleges that Cracker Barrel:

- allowed white servers to refuse to wait on African-American customers;

- segregated customer seating by race;

- seated white customers before African-American customers who arrived earlier;

- provided inferior service to African-American customers after they were seated; and

- treated African-Americans who complained about the quality of Cracker Barrel's food or service less favorably than white customers who lodged similar complaints.

The Justice Department’s investigation revealed evidence of such conduct in approximately 50 different Cracker Barrel restaurants in seven states: Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, North Carolina, Tennessee, and Virginia. The Justice Department’s investigation included interviews with approximately 150 persons, mostly former Cracker Barrel employees, of whom 80 percent stated that they experienced or witnessed discriminatory treatment of customers at a Cracker Barrel restaurant. The investigation suggested that managers often directed, participated in, or condoned the discriminatory behavior.

http://www.industrypages.com/artman/publish/Industry_News_4145.stm

Justice Department Settles Discrimination Lawsuit Against Virginia Beach Nightclub Owner

MONDAY, FEBRUARY 11, 2008, WASHINGTON – The Department of Justice today reached a settlement resolving allegations of racial discrimination with the owner and operator of Kokoamos’ Island Bar & Grill (“Kokoamos”), a restaurant and nightclub in Virginia Beach, Va. The Justice Department alleged that the nightclub discriminated against African-American patrons by denying them admission into the facility for discriminatory reasons. The settlement requires the nightclub to implement changes to its policies and practices in order to prevent such discrimination.

“It is unfortunate that in today’s society, African-Americans and other individuals still must endure discrimination and segregation in public gathering places such as restaurants and nightclubs,” said Grace Chung Becker, Acting Assistant Attorney General for the Civil Rights Division. “As long as such illegal discrimination persists, the Civil Rights Division will remain committed to vigorously enforcing this nation's civil rights laws.”

http://www.allamericanpatriots.com/48742799_justice-department-settles-discrimination-lawsuit-

NAACP FILES RACIAL DISCRIMINATION LAWSUIT AGAINST FRIENDLY'S RESTAURANT

The NAACP, the Conway, S.C. Branch of the NAACP and a Maryland resident have filed a class action lawsuit against a major family restaurant chain for racially discriminatory practices at one of its Myrtle Beach, S.C. restaurants.

The lawsuit challenges Friendly’s Ice Cream Corporation, local franchisee, Myrtle Beach Friends Boulevard LLC, and the franchisee owners for discriminating against African Americans by closing the Ocean Boulevard location during every Black Bike Week from 2000 through 2005.

The lawsuit arises from different treatment of two large motorcycle events held each May in Myrtle Beach. In mid-May, thousands of white motorcyclists and tourists visit Myrtle Beach for an event known as “Harley Weekend.” A week later, over Memorial Day weekend, a similar number of African-American tourists attend Black Bike Week in the Myrtle Beach area. This is the only weekend each year when the majority of tourists in the area are African American.

The lawsuit asserts that the defendants did not allow customers to eat inside the restaurant and only offered inferior services outside the restaurant. Customers during Black Bike Week were not allowed to order items on the full national Friendly’s menu and instead were only offered a limited selection of items cooked on an outdoor grill. As described in the lawsuit, defendants closed the ice cream window and refused to serve the restaurant’s national recognized ice cream products.

During Harley Week, the same Friendly’s restaurant location was open for business. Defendants allowed customers to eat inside the restaurant and the full national Friendly’s menu was available. The defendants sold their famous ice cream and operated the outside ice cream window.

http://www.naacp.org/news/press/2007-10-30/index.htm

And so on and so forth... Even someone as "light-skinned" as Harold Ford Jr. has admitted to racial discrimination. Bush's (Bush's!!!!!) justice department is prosecuting and settling numerous racial discrimination lawsuits. That is how bad it *STILL* is. So perhaps the "White America bullshit" you speak of will end when the pertinent White Americans stop discriminating against people of color. Until it ends, you will hear more of the fiery rhetoric that has caused so much controversy.

It has been more than 40 years since Title II of the Civil Rights Act became law. Forty years and by your own admission, "It's a beginning, you know, the place we all start, but are not there yet."

Think about that. Think about why you describe Obama as an "aristocratic young man" (BTW, did you ever call Bill Clinton "aristocratic" or a "young man" when he ran in '92?).

I don't mean to get on your case at all, but I have to point out that attitudes like yours sound suspiciously like "get over it." The point is we WANT to get over it, WANT to move past racism and the ugliness it exemplifies, but unfortunately the same violation of our civil rights keeps happening to us even today.

[juajen]

56. I'm so sorry. I left the thread after the last two responses to my post.

I certainly do know that racism still exists, and these instances should be addressed when they happen. I had neighbors move in across the street from me, a black family. My neighbors started to twitter with some of them upset because a black family was moving in our neighborhood. On their first night, I took over chicken and dumplings and met their adorable three children. I welcomed them to the neighborhood and we became friends. Not close friends, because of their tiring schedule, but we visited back and forth. They were very busy and I was retired, so there was not much chance for us to hobnob. My neighbors all knew I had welcomed them with food, and though I don't know of any more offerings, the twittering stopped and people were more accepting.

I don't frequent Cracker Barrels, and have never seen any black family or person denied service or treated in any way different here in my city. If I did, I would do something about it. I made a point in my post that there are all types of racism, and I know that's true. However, there are many people like me, who are trying and actually making a difference by our easy acceptance and respect. I know it's not perfect, but it is so much better than in all the years I've been trying to make a difference.

Where I am still dismayed is with the police, because I hear they is still a lot of discrimination in that regard, and it should and is being addressed. Probably not as well as it should be, but there are a lot of people besides me that are trying to make a difference, and, in my opinion, this is closer to what Dr. King wanted than the Rev. Wright's fiery messages.

As I'm sure you know, racism exists everywhere today, against arabs, jews, irish, American indians, latinos, my gosh, the list is endless. We can't live without seeing it everywhere. It is our duty in life to try to help every situation of racism that exists today, including the bias against my son, because he's a hippie. BTW, he gets stopped by the police because he has long hair, and he is often called a hippie by our native Acadians.

See what I mean? I'm not trying to diminish the wrongs done to African Americans, but I didn't do it and the only way I can change it is a little bit at a time, as Dr. King did. He is my hero do, even though I am white.

[bigbrother05]

48. Barack Obama certainly didn't come from an "aristocratic" background

Through hard work and guidance from his family, he worked his way into Harvard and on to the US Senate. One thing he obviously learned was how to present himself in a positive light to pursue his goals in life. He knew that that was part of the price of admission to the elite world.

How different that is from a life of privilege that deems it a given that good, well paying jobs are there for the asking, that family connections will assure a continuous string of employment regardless of personal failings. How easy it must seem for someone allowed to join or quit military service at a whim, to know connections will keep any missteps from derailing your life. How different it must be when a prep school/Ivy League legacy finds that the persona of a mumbling party boy will elevate you to the WH.

Barack Obama may be many things, but a product of "aristocratic" privilege he is not.

[juajen]

58. I don't believe I said he was an aristocrat, but that is his persona.

I believe you get it automatically when you graduate from Harvard Law School. Barack Obama has certainly not had the normal "black experience". Your college days color you all your life, and his is colored aristocratic, no matter how you shake it. I have worked for two Harvard Law School graduates and I know that persona well. He certainly has it.

I grew up much poorer and less privileged than Barack Obama, and I had no connections to get a job. I was very pretty, and that certainly got me in many doors. It also allowed many men to sexually harrass me, and fear for my job kept my mouth shut. Hillary's presidency is highly desired by this woman who fought sexual bias every step of the way, and there was never anyone who paved my way.

It's way past time for a women to break this glass ceiling. Please remember we are over half the population and have been discriminated against since way before the birth of this nation.

[ProgressiveEconomist]

20. Sean Hannity peeped through a keyhole and cherry-picked what he saw. IMO,

Wright had an obligation to minister to the specific misery of his congregation. Evidently he succeeded, since his Trinity United Church of Christ is the largest US congregation of its faith. Over 36 years, starting with 87 church members in 1972, Wright became one of the most successful church leaders and one of the most higly regarded inspirational sermonizers of his generation. THAT is why there has been for years a market for audio and vidio of Wright's sermons. Many seminary students evidently have bought Wright's sermons to learn how to preach.

Wright was talking -- in their own language -- to 8500 mostly African American congregants on the desperately poor South Side of Chicago, people with one in ten male family members in jail mainly for the inability to afford good lawyers.

Hillary Clinton for all intents and purposes could be on the other side of the moon. The context for communication is not to be ignored--especially when it is captured by an evil-minded spy on a sanctuary for truly oppressed people.

How can people criticize so vehemently what they should not have heard or seen and evidently do not want to try to understand?

See http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5100515

[Tellurian]

22. Yes, thank you, journalist3072..

Have been missing your thoughtful and insightful posts.

Happy to see you back posting..

[journalist3072]

23. Awww..thank you. I've been extremely busy and really haven't had much time to post here. Thanks for

your kind words!!!

[Tellurian]

31. Believe me, we noticed!

:hi:

[Petrushka]

28. Much to think about . . . thank you!

K&R

[hfojvt]

29. She wrote to NASA as a young girl?

She was born in 1947, and NASA did not start until 1958, and John Glenn flying in the Mercury 6 in 1962. So maybe when she was 15. A teen-aged girl more than a young girl. Sally Ride, by the way, was born in 1951, and women were flying during WWII. Jacqueline Cochran even broke the sound barrier in 1953.

http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/women_gallery/gallery3a.htm

If she really got a discouraging letter then that was not really much of a barrier. You make it sound like they stomped on the dreams of an 8 year old.

[journalist3072]

30. She wrote to them as a junior in high school.....From page 15 of Judith Warner's book

Page 15, Judith Warner's book "Hillary Clinton: The Inside Story":

"Although home, and her parent's gentle nudging, gave Hillary a sense of unlimited possibility, the outside world wasn't quite so encouraging. While she was still a junior in high school, she decided she wanted to be an astronaut. It was the early 1960s and the nation, under President Kennedy's leadership, was thinking moonwards. Hillary wrote to NASA and asked them what she needed to do to start training. She included some mention of her background and academic strengths. NASA wrote back telling her that girls need not apply. It was, she said, "infuriating." She told the Washington Post: "I later realized that I couldn't have been an astronaut because I have such terrible eyesight. That somewhat placated me."

[NOLALady]

32. Interesting.

At that time NASA accepted males only? Or was it white males only?

If it wasn't for Affirmative Action, women and non whites wouldn't have much of a chance.

Let's hope we don't get another Republican who may completely destroy the program.

[juajen]

60. My brother was with the Apollo missions. He worked for GE at NASA

in Houston. At the time there were black employees at NASA, but I don't remember any black astronauts during the Apollo missions, and, as Hillary found out, it was a man's world.

[NOLALady]

65. Well,

Was it a man's world or a white man's world? Do you know if the black employees could train as astronauts at that time?

I'm the same age as Hillary. I didn't think I had a chance to train as an astronaut not because I'm female, but because I'm a black female. I could be wrong, but I couldn't get a job at 15 waiting tables.

White females had advantages that we didn't at that time. I did not see it as a man's world because just as many women as men turned down our job applications.

I have a different perspective which has nothing to do with hate. My perspective is based on my experiences.

[LisaL]

50. Wow. Even USSR had women as astronauts.

Shocking.

[polmaven]

55. India, Pakistan...those great bastions of democracy..

have had women leaders. Germany has one now. England had Margaret Thatcher.

I am often scratching my head over some of the countries that have broken that barrier, and we still have so many who will refuse to vote for a woman for anything.

[sueragingroz]

33. Great Post . K & R

[rodeodance]

34. REC

[GoldieAZ49]

37. Rev. Wright has never been a woman

that had to work twice as hard for half the pay and none of the recognition

[rodeodance]

38. right on

[ej510]

39. What women are you talking about?

Black or White because whether you want to believe it or not white women have always had an easier life than black men or blacks in general. I'm sure that white women would never want to trade places with anyone that is black.

[juajen]

61. Don't be so damned sure. Poor white women had it every bit

as rough as blacks. I saw it first hand and I know what I'm talking about. It was not just black women that were expected to make progress by being raped or sexually assaulted. You would also be amazed at the number of incestuous relationships in the good ole south. A lot of these men had all of the power and there was not a damned thing a woman could do about it. Where have you lived and under what rock? There has always been horrible mistreatment of wives as well. We still fight that. Many men still say you can't rape your wife. Nice, but there it is.

[avrdream]

40. Read this at work earlier.

But couldn't kick and rec until now.

Good job.

[pecwae]

41. Great post. K&R. nt

[Iceburg]

45. Best thread in months...thank you journalist3072/nt

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

46. K & R. Such a great post.

:toast:

:kick:

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

47. K & R. Such a great post.

:toast:

:kick:

[citizen snips]

49. Best anaylsis on Wright yet.

[oasis]

66. I agree. (nt)

[Yes We Did]

59. How do we know he didn't? We saw a 3 minute clip.

That is the problem. Everyone is judging him and Obama on a 3 minute clip.

You cannot possibly make an informed... "judgement" (for lack of a better word) on Wright based on that.

[Zhade]

62. So sayeth the poster who once procalimed that all people need Jesus in their lives to be decent.

Please, we're not buying the bullshit you're selling.

[oasis]

63. kick