Is Kerry showing the leadership that you're looking for?

[Guaranteed]

Poll question: Is Kerry showing the leadership that you're looking for?

[FloridaPat]

1. No - but compared to Bush he's great. Unfortunately, a melon

compared to Bush would look great too.

[bowens43]

2. I don't believe that leadership is important or even desirable.

We don't need a leader, we need a technician, an engineer, someone competent to the job at hand. Being the president is , in my opinion , no different then being a plumber or a carpenter or a mechanic or programmer. We need someone who will be able to perform competently in the position. I wouldn't want Kerry to try to fix my pipes or take out my gall bladder but he is one hell of a politician and that's what we need.

[sangha]

6. People looking for leaders often accept demagoogues

Be careful what you wish for

[JI7]

20. i know what you mean

many bush supporters , especially the biggest ones are the type who always talk about what a "leader" he is. they are usually not informed about specific policy issues and don't want to debate it. it's about how bush is such a great moral leader and how proud he makes them. complaints about the opposition such as bill clinton and john kerry are usually about personal, non policy things such as clinton was a "moral" failure because he commited adultery and now with kerry it's "he looks french", or he is elitist, he snowboards, i think he is boring etc. when you point out that bush has no plan to help people with jobs, health care, education etc, they respond by saying things like john kerry's hairstyles are expensive. as if people are losing their jobs because of kerry's life style. i live in la and met with some of the grocery workers on strike who had met with kerry earlier. and they all liked him because they saw him as understanding the issues which are important to them , issues they were on strike over. this is why he did well in iowa. not by claiming to be like them, or trying to act like something he wasn't. he did it by listening to others and trying to find ways he can help them.

[arewethereyet]

35. you're joking, right ?

it is the job of a president to lead and inspire. Period.

[sangh0]

44. How shallow

Bush* has led millions of people and inspired a war, so I guess in your eyes, he's doing his job.

[arewethereyet]

53. yes. you may not like the direction but he is doing his job.

and that, in a nutshell, if what Kerry has to defeat, the direction.

[Lexingtonian]

3. yes

Every day that Kerry's winning in the polls and unregenerate Deansheviks whine about missing their fix of Leninist fools' certainty, it's leadership I like.

[ima_sinnic]

4. "Leninist fools"?

blather on with your creepy rhetoric.

[DaveSZ]

5. LOL

Well, I'd rather have an FDR Democrat, but Kerry will have to do I guess.

[jonnyblitz]

63. where do these people come from?

geeezuz fucking christ...

[edzontar]

9. Wow!! Leninist fools..that's right out of the lexicon of folks

Like Robert Novak.

I guess anyone who finds fault with Kerry's campaign is a communist.

Nice sentiment.

[The Magistrate]

10. Indeed, Mr. Zontar

Trotsky-ite would be a bit more apt: much of the complaint does seem to arise from people who have some attachment to ideas of "permanent revolution" as a political orientation....

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[edzontar]

14. Some folks criticize Kerry because they fear he might LOSE

For example, myself.

There is a long ideological line between the Corporatist/Liberal ideology of Kerry and either Trotskyism or Lenisism--or Maoism, for that matter, which is another one that is brought up.

Further, it is intellectually dishonest to label anyone who wishes Kerry would be stronger on issues like the war--for both moral AND political reasons--a Trotskiite or anything else unless you really know a LOT more about them.

These are tactics and systems of thought that should be left to the pukes.

[The Magistrate]

19. People Do Things For A Lot Of Reasons, Mr. Zontar

Seconding your objection to the Leninist usage, and providing one more apt in some cases, hardly calls for a hostile reaction.

We have both been involved in discussing this matter for some time, Sir, and have some knowledge of the regular cast of characters who participate in it. We are both aware that some of the persons who criticize Sen. Kerry do so from a revolutionist's perspective: when persons have proclaimed this themselves, it it hardly a slur against them. A person certainly has a right to view things from this perspective, just as others have a right to view their doing so as Quixotic at best, and pernicious at worst.

Persons who simply wish Sen. Kerry expressed himself more strongly on the topic of the war in Iraq are hardly affected by the acknowledgement that some wish for a good deal more, and simply see that as a handy hook on which to hang their more profound objections to the current system. It is certainly possible to make the critique you urge from within the current system, though in my view it seems a poor one: it does not seem likely to me that a much harder anti-war line would bring much political benefit in the current campaign, and appeals to morality in political life generally strike me as sour notes indeed; the business is, by its very nature, an amoral one.

"We would have had Socialism long ago, if not for the Socialists."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[edzontar]

26. Just so. I am indeed a socialist of sorts. But I want Kerry to win.

And I am not Trotskyte or Maoist either.

[The Magistrate]

29. Then We Have Much In Common, Sir

In just about any European country, my vote would be routinely cast for a Social-Democrat party list.

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[Bozola]

13. I am a little confused here.

"Every day that Kerry's winning in the polls and unregenerate Deansheviks whine about missing their fix of Leninist fools' certainty, it's leadership I like."


What an interesting construction. I am not sure I can parse this. But, I can try, in the spirit of helping to clarify what you said.



"Every day that Kerry's winning in the polls" ok. check. I know it's not all that often, but that makes it all the more memorable.



"unregenerate Deansheviks whine about missing their fix of Leninist fools' certainty"

Ok. Stubborn and suffixing Dean with a "commie" label. Clever touch. It really is. Original, too. Check. Since Dean, who is not a candidate, supports Kerry, who is, and, the vast majority of "Dean supporters" have avow electorial support for Kerry, wouldn't it be more accurate to call them Unregenerate Kerrysheviks?

I'm not sure what "Leninist fools' certainty" is. Are they certain about the color of the sky, or perhaps, the method of brewing vodka?

"it's leadership I like". Who's leadership do you like? Do you mean a eunuchoid Bush?

So let me get this straight: what you are saying is, that in those times when the polls are favorable to Kerry, and the communist Kerry supporters are complaining about vodka production, you appreciate asexual guidance?

[Name removed]

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[Bozola]

24. Mr. Bozo is a personal attack. The name is Bozola.

Sen. Kerry has generally been leading in the polls
'Nuff said. Haw! Golly, you're a little sensitive about polls. Don't worry, a dead Wombat could beat Bush, but I have to wonder why he's only tied.

The situation at present hardly seems to require complaint, certainly not from those who support his candidacy....
Haw! That is a good one. Pull the other.


"It's quiet today in the old town of Tombstone."
Gee, is this a threat?

[The Magistrate]

25. The Name, Sir?

It struck my eye as indicating Bozo in L.A., but some of the new "text" used by the young can confuse me. There does not seem to me anything particularly inappropriate about Mr. Bozo, however, and we are both aware of just how committed you are avoiding personal attacks. Still, if you feel maligned, by all means, use the alert function: it is there to protect your delicate sensibilities from abuse by mean old men....

The mention of polls was engaged because it was the only portion of your effort that rose much above a second-grade lunch period and actually touched on a fact, which you managed to mis-state. There is, actually, some signifigance to polling results out this early, when they are tending to run against an incumbent: any election involving an incumbent is in large degree a referendum on that official, and the early results indicate feelings built up over the entire term, which are difficult to reverse with a few months' course of advertisements.

As regards your final confession of timorousness: it is amusing in the extreme to find you claiming you feel threatened by that little blurb from a tourist brouchure. But doubtless you know best where danger to you lurks....

"It's quiet today in the old town of Tombstone."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

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[Bozola]

33. You should stick with your strenghts

You would not, Mr. Bozo, be asking if you were being threatened if you were not predisposed to view the world as something threatening to you
Not only a parking ticket adjudicator, but a psychotherapist and logician! A man of diverse talents! My hat, for yes, I wear such things, is indeed off to you.

Actually, I don't care about you, sorry.

--------------------------------------------

"Break wind superannuated codger, seeking artful words, priest of subtlest hogwash."

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Bozola]

48. Ah. A typo vile hath laid me low!

"your effort that rose much above a second-grade lunch period".

11:30am?


I am interested in this comment "Mr. Bozo, however, and we are both aware of just how committed you are avoiding personal attacks".
I would like to say thank you for your honest and kind words!


"Timorous". I like that word. It evokes the works of George Gordon. I would suggest you try to use "obstreperous" and "verisimilitude" in conversion.

So getting back to the original node before it was hijacked, you agree with the original poster's comment on calling Dean supporters whining "unregenerate Deansheviks"?


-------------------------------------------------------------
"It is curious that physical courage should be so common in the world, and moral courage so rare."

[Bozola]

47. Polls?

Oh, dear me. Those nasty, nasty polls!

That's Gallup, btw.

-----------------------------------------
WASHINGTON - Neither President Bush nor Democrat John Kerry has gained an advantage in the presidential race, despite millions of dollars spent on advertising, though Americans are growing concerned that violence in Iraq is increasing the threat of terrorism, an Associated Press poll found.

Bush was backed by 45 percent of voters and Kerry by 44 percent in the poll conducted for the AP by Ipsos-Public Affairs. Independent candidate Ralph Nader had 6 percent support. The numbers are essentially unchanged from AP-Ipsos polls taken in early and mid-March.

http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/news/...ics/8391785.htm

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

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[ulysses]

28. if someone questions corporate power, does it make them Leninist?

Trying to feel out the definitions in the new DU...

[LWolf]

7. No.

But I'm holding out hope. I'm hoping that underneath the recent er...errors in judgement (patriot act, IWR, etc) and slippery positions on issues, that the earlier Kerry incarnation is still alive and kicking. I'm hoping that much of what I'm not comfortable with is election positioning/posturing, to raise the comfort level of the more conservative dems, swings, and disgruntled repubs. I'm hoping that he hasn't evolved into one of them.

When I hear Kerry speak, I hear rhetoric and buzzwords meant to generate support among his listeners. I don't hear what the man himself thinks. I don't have a clue what the man really thinks.

[bushbegone04]

11. He puts me to sleep

my husband also thinks he comes off as too much of an elitist when he speaks, but when he tries to fix that by wearing the flight jacket or by snowboarding, he ends up looking phony - who are you, John Kerry?

[formernaderite]

16. Hopefully regardless of Kerry anger against Bush will be enough....

...I find him worse than Gore as a speaker. He tends to ramble, and that upper-crusty accent is very grating. I actually like his wife alot, although they seem to be hiding her at the moment. If Americans can get over the fact that she's rich and foreign, she has a very engaging and soothing tonal quality to her speech....as my wife has said: She's very motherly in her quality....I think that's an important point. I heard her on the stump in Iowa, she was clear and deferential to her audience. Actually asking them to vote for her husband.

[JI7]

18. yeah, someone who complains about snowboarding and flight jackets

even when that person has been doing those things for years and makes no mention of phony ass like bush in the flight suit will tend to fall asleep when someone discusses policy issues in depth.

[sangh0]

22. Imagine that!!

A candidate in a Presidential race is speaking "rhetoric and buzzwords meant to generate support among his listeners"

Will wonders ever cease?

:crazy:

[LWolf]

23. "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain."

Absolutely standard issue campaign crap; you're right.

Some of us want to meet the man we're dealing with.

[sangh0]

27. Too bad

You had more than 30 years to meet the man. You should have woken up sooner. Now he's introducing himself to millions, and he doesn't have the time for your special order.

[LWolf]

32. I've been awake all my life, thanks.

I never felt the need to meet a senator serving a state on the other end of the country; I've spent my time paying attention to the senators and reps working for me.

I don't think universal health care is a special order. I think health care is a right. For all. Not just me.

I don't think expecting responsible use of our armed forces is a special order. I don't think cooperation with the rest of the world is a special order.

I don't think protecting our civil rights is a special order. None of this is about me.

You don't represent Mr. Kerry well, IMO.

[sangh0]

45. Big mistake

I never felt the need to meet a senator serving a state on the other end of the country; I've spent my time paying attention to the senators and reps working for me.

Now that one is about to become President, I hope you see that ignoring Senators from other states was not a Good Idea.

I don't think universal health care is a special order. I think health care is a right. For all. Not just me.

Not, but thinking that Kerry is going to make a special presentation of it just for you is a special order. If you want to know Kerry's position on UHC, you had plenty of time to do so.

You don't represent Mr. Kerry well, IMO.

I don't represent Kerry at all, I speak for no one but myself.

[LWolf]

46. It could be a mistake, I agree.

Focusing only on local leaders rather than the whole congress.

I prefer to call it a judicious use of limited time. ;-)

Of course, I did spend considerable time learning about all ten of the original primary candidates so that I could make an informed choice.

I do know what Senator Kerry's take on UHC is; I checked that out more than a year ago when I was looking at the wide range of primary choices. And again; universal health care is not a special order for me. It's a right, and it is universal. For all. I do know that health insurance coverage in no way equals "care." And that Kerry's plan leaves some people un-insured, and that even those that have insurance may not get "care." I don't think this is a "special order" for me. I think that, other than the quagmire in Iraq, health care is the biggest single issue facing all americans today. All. I don't think that wanting a president, or a senator, to respond to that issue in a way that serves the need for all is a "special order."

Again, just my opinion, but I think the repetitive "special order" rhetoric is a poor talking point. Why shouldn't voters expect a candidate to consider their perspectives? Or to include something like universal health care, which enjoys strong support from most (except the insurance companies, of course), in the plans?

[sangh0]

49. You said "Some of us want to meet the man we're dealing with"

That's what you said. You didn't say "I want Kerry to change his opinion on UHC." You didn't say "I want Kerry to respond to the issue in a way that serves the needs of all"

You said "Some of us want to meet the man we're dealing with"

If you think "Special order" is a poor talking point, you might want to rethink the efficacy of demanding to "meet the man we're dealing with"

Garbage in, garbage out.

[LWolf]

55. The man behind the curtain.

That's the man I want to find out about. I want to feel comfortable that the public man bears some resemblance to the real man. I don't see a problem with that. What sane person wouldn't want to know who or what they're really voting for? That's not a special order. That's essential to responsible voting.

You keep the garbage, thanks. I'll take truth in, and truth out.

[sangh0]

56. You want to feel comfortable?

Is that what the election is about for you?

What sane person wouldn't want to know who or what they're really voting for?

The kind of sane person who isn't very well-informed about politics. It's hard to get an accurate and detailed look at a Presidential candidate in the middle of a Presidential campaign. Right now, the press is ALL OVER him. If you wanted a detailed and honest look at Kerry, you should have started sooner.

You keep the garbage, thanks. I'll take truth in, and truth out.

In politics, you have to wade through a lot of garbage to find the truth. If you avoid the garbage, then you will miss the truth

[The Magistrate]

8. Sen. Kerry Is Doing Fine, Mr. Looney

This is a marathon, not a sprint.

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

12. I think Kerry is doing a good job hammering away at Bush

While distinguishing himself.

[mobuto]

15. Absolutely

He's showing a kind of leadership that no Democrat has shown since Jack Kennedy. I'm blown away.

Kerry in '04!

[Bill Todd]

17. No: he's showing pretty much the kind I'm *not* looking for

The politics-as-usual, bash your opponent rather than stand up clearly for something yourself, pander-to-the-lowest-common-denominator kind, with a healthy pinch of DLC neocon imperialism thrown in.

But I did have a revelation last night, as my daughter (who has a taste for off-beat horror movies) was watching Reanimator: Kerry looks, and acts, remarkably like "Dr. Carl Hill" - right down to the hair style and the voice that puts people to sleep (or mesmerizes them, in some cases). Another remarkable similarity is that actor David Gale also died in the early '90s.

- bill

(edit: typo)

[Dr Fate]

38. So I take it you are not voting for him?

???

[Bill Todd]

39. Not without seeing convincing evidence of major improvement (n/t)

[Dr Fate]

41. So who are you voting for then?

Bush?, Nader?, Voo-Doo Man?,- who?

[sangh0]

52. Kerry looks, and acts, remarkably like "Dr. Carl Hill"

I'm guessing he'll vote for Dr Mark Green from the series "ER"

He doesn't look anything like Kerry. Dr Mark Green represent REAL CHANGE

[Dr Fate]

54. I'm voting for Curly Howard- he does not look like Kerry either.

...

[Bill Todd]

57. Someone I'd actually want in the White House

and where my vote will make it clear to the party that it was theirs to lose (assuming that they do in fact lose it, which they're still on course to do).

Since that decision doesn't need to be made any time soon, I'm happy to keep my options open - especially given the hope that Kerry may become an acceptable choice.

- bill

[mitchum]

58. Who cares?

[Bill Todd]

61. Apparently Dr. Fate, since he asked (n/t)

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

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[Dr Fate]

37. So I take it you are not voting for him?

???

[David Zephyr]

40. John Kerry Has Surprised Me With How Good He Is Doing.

Today, he looked and acted like he was a President when he was speaking.

I'm not too proud to eat some humble pie.

Kerry is looking very, very good.

[kodi]

42. nope. i & many here are already where he is allegedly leading us towards

kerry is playing catch-up with his supporters.

it is hard to call that leadership.

[Slide]

51. Kerry's doing fine

Remember that this is a general election and he has to appeal to a wider spectrum of voters, hence the modifications of his record, beliefs, positions, etc. The important thing is to get Bush out of the White House.

I worry about the money thing, though. I mean he got his money by marrying into it, and his wife got that money the same way. These two are not "folksy" and they certainly can't do the "average American" thing like Clinton. After all, how many mansions do one couple need? Rove hasn't even started on this. Yet.

Whatever. I'll still vote for him. Sheesh.

[salonghorn70]

59. Yes

I am pleased and proud of his message. Apresident does lead. Its all about leadership. I am particularly pleased that he has begun to emphasize the Clinton message. He is moving to the middle of the road. This is where elections are won.

[tedoll78]

60. When he's visible, yes.

I like what he says usually.

And I like it when he makes the news, which isn't enough for my tastes. We see the Chimp everywhere, and then we get a three-second retort from the Kerry camp. It sucks.

[Name removed]

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[TheDonkey]

64. Yes, Kerry is a leader I can look up to

I'm very proud of him.
Can't wait until he's our president.

[Kanary]

65. You left off "Hell, no" on your poll

You might be surprised to know just how many "traditional" Dems are being left out.

Not that it matters.

Kanary

[Only Me]

66. Voted

I voted "Yes". He is not perfect, obviously no one is. There is going to be people that are unhappy with him no matter what does or has done. I don't think anyone one person could ever please everyone.

But overall, I believe he will be a good president, considering the complications he is inheriting from this administration.
Not to mention the division within his own party.

If he stays in the campaign, he has a lot to look forward to.:eyes:

[sleipnir]

67. Kerry's a laugh and he's proving it each day.

I wish Kerry were a real leader, but alas he's not....

He's a follower and it's a damn shame we've given him the Nod, but it's over and done with so I'll be forced to vote for the guy. Damn shame the world we live in.