Man what did the Clintons do to Kerry?? He is chewing them up on MSNBC.

[jmg257]

Via Obama support.

[TheDoorbellRang]

1. Returning the favors of 2004? n/t

[elehhhhna]

46. DING DING DING you win!

[anonymeme]

60. What's The Prize? I Respect John Kerry's Heroic Service, BUT The Man Ain't a Rocket Scientist...

I Respect John Kerry's Heroic Service, BUT The Man Ain't a Rocket Scientist...

I loved the guy, felt deep pain for him over the Swift-Boat Liars for Lies attacks on him, defended him like a mother bear defends her cubs...

But he has lost something in his spirit and maybe the old brain pan over the past four years and he is no judge of his own performance or the character of other people any more.

He waited until it as too late to fight back against the slur on him and it was not a very smart move to chose to do it after that "joke" he told bombed.

[ProSense]

69. He's responsible for the SCHIP bill Hillary keeps taking credit for. n/t

[wicket]

100. BULLSHIT.

:eyes:

[karynnj]

102. He is smart enough to:

- Have first spoken the words that HRC now uses as hers on Iraq - that the Iraqi politicians won't make the tough decisions needed unless they know we aren't staying forever. (the Clintons in 2006 were among those calling it cut and run)
- have written a good deal of the bill that eventually became S-CHIP - which HRC claimed as her "change" where what she did was push the DINO Bill Clinton to fund the bill in his budget that a Republican Senate and House passed.
- who represented the US at Bali and from the accounts given to the SFRC by the experts did a great job.
- Who was far more on target on how to deal with terrorism - and now even conservatives concede that he was right.
- Not to mention he is the only Democrat I have seen go head to head with McCain and win decisively. Some how you forgot the debates versus Bush that were FAR better than those I saw when Clinton ran.

In addition, Kerry has the integrity and class that neither Clinton will ever have. They also lack his eloquence.

Both Clintons fought to get Kerry's endorsement because it mattered. In case you didn't notice - he's a far better surrogate than Bill Clinton has been.

[Window]

82. GMTA.

[NJSecularist]

2. The Clintons turned their back on Kerry in 2004

I don't blame him.

[anamandujano]

10. How about some details with proof, however flimsy?

[NJSecularist]

12. The Clintons weren't very cordial to Kerry in 2004

And their buddy Carville threw him under the bus with the provisional ballots in Ohio.

[TheDebbieDee]

56. And you call this proof? I call it heresay and gossip.

[barack the house]

93. It seems to be gossip that adds up to Kerry and in the context of events..

and everything Carville has done since.

[anonymeme]

79. Don't Forget That Kerry Threw John Edwards Under the Bus, Too, When Kerry Endorsed Obama...

Don't Forget That Kerry Threw John Edwards Under the Bus, Too, When Kerry Endorsed Obama...

John Edwards -- one of the most decent people we will ever see in politics -- who looked at John Kerry like Kerry was God when they were together.

Edwards supported Kerry and championed him in every way.

What the Hell was Kerry's excuse for snubbing Edwards?! And now he's running his mouth against Hillary?

He's kind of off my favorites list... and going onto another of my lists at this point. *L*

[JAbuchan08]

91. He just felt that Obama was the better candidate

I wasn't sure John was the best candidate, but he had the best rhetoric and that was what I followed him for. I chose to vote for Obama because I did not trust Edwards to throw his support to Obama and felt that my vote was the equivalent of the same.

I do not feel Kerry thre Edwards under the bus. I do think Edwards could have and should have been more aggressive in 2004. He has a problem with having a somewhat "glad-handing" personality and I think that (Among MANY MANY other things in the 2004 campaign) was a problem.

In short I can accept Kerry's judgement though I am no *great* fan of Kerry or Edwards.

[October]

95. Yeah, no sense of loyalty there

I am so disappointed in him. NOW he has a mouth and opinion? What's wrong with him anyway -- he can only fight against his own party? Makes me sick. Ugh. And I was so loyal to him.

I finally scraped my "Kerry" bumpersticker off my car a few months ago.

[chascarrillo]

109. Loyalty? We've had seven years of loyalty, and look where it fucking got us.

[LittleClarkie]

101. How do you endorse someone who isn't taking your calls

Edwards didn't want Kerry's endorsement.

[karynnj]

110. Edwards cut off communication with Kerry

lied about the campaign and the Edwards bashed both Kerrys - who didn't respond. The Kerrys were FAR more gracious to the Edwards than the other way around.

Edwards REFUSED to even use the campaign slogan as he PROUDLY told the NYT last December. Kerry also praised Edwards and HRC when he endorsed Obama - Edwards spoke of 2 types of change - that was what Kerry spoke of too - but Kerry prefers DIPLOMACY and negotiation - exactly what Edwards blasted - though 2004 Edwards didn't.

He said NOTHING negative about HRC - other than that Obama has more legislative experience - in years he does!

[UALRBSofL]

120. anonymeme I'm glad you made that point because I was reading an article

the other day about Kerry and Edwards how Kerry convinced Edwards to vote IWR. It talked about Kerry went to see Edwards, they were at the Outerbanks, NC on Edwards boat and talked about when they got back to Edwards home, they went into the den, and Kerry asked Edwards to vote for IWR and Edwards was taken back about it because he wasn't for voting to begin with. Edwards did vote IWR and I wonder how he feels about Kerry now. Then Kerry didn't endorse Edwards so In my opinion I would say there might be bad blood between them.

[anonymeme]

121. UALRBSofL...

UALRBSofL... that may be true, about the bad blood due to the IWR vote, but there's no excuse for Kerry's behavior of late. And if it was over the IWR, what moral, ethical ground would Kerry have for not backing Edwards anyway from behind the scenes and not making an open endorsement for someone else, especially that crooked little shape-shifter?!

And what are his moral ethical ground for ripping the Clinton's now?

I think he's lost it at least to some degree. But I don't really know what's going on with him. ~*:shrug:*~

[karynnj]

106. Read the 2 pages on the 1996 MA Senate election in Bill Clinton's book

He gives more praise to Weld! Weld- who incidentally vetoed MA's version of S-CHIP. Somehow Bill forgot Kerry's foreign policy expertise and terrorism expertise, his work on healthcare, and his work for veterans.

The bigger problem was releasing it in JULY 2004 - so every newsman could get the answer "because I could".

[dogman]

20. Bullshit.

I attended a Kerry fundraising rally, downtown Chicago, that featured Bill Clinton.

[jasmine621]

86. Yeah, Bill didn't get out of the hospital bed soon enough to campaign for him.

What a crock of bull. Truth is, Kerry is an elitest and one of the insiders in Dem party who really hate Bill and Hillary as invaders from the outside elite political circle called Washington.

[judaspriestess]

117. and Kerry turned his back on Ohioans and more importantly Americans

too bad, lost my respect for him as a politician right there. Just rolled up like a ball and rolled away

[BenDavid]

140. Clintons turned their back on Kerry in 2004....total bullshit and this

needs to be corrected. On October 25, 2004 Kerry was in some polls trailing bush by 2 points and in some even and in some ahead by 2 but the state was in doubt.....So, guess who kerry called and asked would he come and join him in a campaign event in Philadelphia, on 10/25/2004? Kerry called Bill Clinton who had just went through heart surgery but he said he would...Well, on that day in October over 50,000 people came out see kerry and bruce springsteen and of course Bill Clinton....Bill gave his first speech after the surgery here at this Kerry event.....The crowd was wild and clapping and Bill who did not give his usual roaring speech did well enough to endorse Kerry......

and what happened on November 2, 2004.....John Kerry took Pa.....so this bullshit ABOUT THE CLINTONS TURNING THEIR BACK ON KERRY IS BULLSHIT AND YOU HAVE IT WRONG KERRY TURNED HIS BACK ON THEM....

[tularetom]

3. Undercut him in 04 at every opportunity

so he would not be around to run as an incumbent in 08 thus assuring an easy nomination for Hirraly.

[RL3AO]

Until this Obama character came around.

eh?

[OzarkDem]

39. Malarkey

[LaurenG]

Tin foil hat time?

they wouldn't defend him when he was running in 2004? That's just a guess.

[jlake]

4. He's sublimating his rage against Bush.

Kerry has transferred all of his energy to working against the Clintons..... very sad.

[Skoods]

7. Haha

I find it funny that Obama preaches unity and change yet he rides the endorsements of Kerry and Kennedy. They are the most polarizing Washington insiders around.

[LostInAnomie]

14. "They are the most polarizing Washington insiders around."

Well, except for Hillary.

[Skoods]

17. If Hillary were a man...

No one would find her polarizing...She votes moderately and sticks up for what she believes in. More proof of radical sexism in America.

[TheDoorbellRang]

30. oh, pfui n/t

[LostInAnomie]

51. If Hillary were a man she wouldn't be a serious candidate for president.

She has a totally lack-luster career, and voted for the war. The only thing that kept her alive in this race was her gender, and the willingness of women to vote for her based solely on that.

Talk about sexism.

[CoffeeCat]

76. Polarizing to Republicans maybe...

...but Kennedy and Kerry are Dem stalwarts.

The Kennedy and Kerry endorsements speak volumes about Obama's ability
to galvanize people around his candidacy. You can't exactly enact change,
if you lack the support and respect of the party leaders.

Kennedy and Kerry know that it's time to hand over the reigns to a new
generation. What an honor for Obama, for these Dem leaders to have
faith in Obama's abilities and leadership.

[curvy rider]

118. I think fraud in Ohio cost Kerry the elections

I think Kerr could have been a bit more forceful and demanded a recount or re-evaluation of the voting machines. Anecdotal evidence has shown that in many parts of Ohio the vote was suppressed.

[Lilith Velkor]

133. So has about half of DU.

It's fucking pathetic.

[w13rd0]

5. I think our user "blm" could best...

...give you an outline of "what the Clintons did to Kerry". Lets just say that they weren't exactly hoping for a democratic win for Presidency in 2004, since Hillary was planning on runnin in 2008. Some might even go so far as to say that some loyal to the Clintons (like James Carville), actively sabotaged efforts.

[redqueen]

8. Yeah... I was gonna say, that's quite the invitation there, the question in the OP.

I expect many enthusiastic responses... from both sides.

*sigh*

:)

[OzarkDem]

50. Yeah, campaigning for Kerry right after heart surgery was so lame

I guess Kerry would have been happier if Bill had keeled over for him. :sarcasm:

[karynnj]

112. All of his campaigning likely helped less than he would have helped

by not releasing his 1000 page book in July 2004.

[paulk]

115. that "outline"

has gotten her banned twice...

[beachmom]

127. That doesn't mean what she said was untrue, just that some sites

are uncomfortable with the truth about some Democrats.

[blonndee]

6. Indeed! "This candidate is building an incredible coalition across America." - on Obama.

I wish I had a transcript. I missed the first part of the interview. Love you, Senator Kerry!

[sniffa]

9. As others pointed out: 2004.

Also, the botched joke. And then the Clintons reprehensible campaign tactics.

Thank you Senator Kerry. :patriot:

[jlake]

11. Sen. Kerry should examine himself. He won in 2004, but refused to fight as he had promised

Folks Trying to blame the Clintons for Kerry's loss is weak
And if Kerry believes that conspiracy theory he should speak out about it.

[tabasco]

18. You're the one who needs counseling.

I think you would drink the purple kool-aid for H. Clinton.

[jlake]

22. That is a vile thing to say.

[tabasco]

28. But accusing Kerry of psychological problems is okey dokey?

If you want to get in the gutter I'll get right in there with you.


edit - I see you edited your post. That was the right thing to do.

[jlake]

36. I did not accuse Kerry of psychological problems.

I said that he should seek counseling for his anger issues (which I edited BEFORE your response because I thought it was too inflammatory)
I do think he needs to do some deep introspection and find out why he is so angry.

[karynnj]

123. Kerry is likely the coolest tempered person in DC

This is a guy who forgave Nixon - after Nixon basically attempted to destroy him when he was a young guy.

I think you mistake him for Bill Clinton - who is the one out there wagging his finger in the face of reporters. Kerry is far more at peace with himself than that. Have you ever met him - many of us DU JK people have - he is warm, funny and a very interesting person.

Your posts do you that you are angry - attacking Obama occasionally irrationally.

[sniffa]

I agree with you

even though I have no idea who you're responding to. :D

[Owl]

27. Blah

[truedelphi]

35. I have never forgiven Kerry for the following

One) conceding within 24 hrs of the 8Pm closing times.

Two) Not standing up to Hillary and to Carville

[travelingtypist]

137. Yes, this.

I wish Kerry would just go away.

[DawgHouse]

114. I agree with you.

[karynnj]

122. Kerry could not challege because he had NO proof

Kerry has not said one word against the Clintons on 2004 - that I have ever seen. I didn't even here one word on the "hey John " attack or her piling on the joke.

What I did hear was Kerry jumping to her defense before anyone else when the RW attacked her for asking for an exit plan - his defense was so strong the NYT election section conjectured he was for HRC. Before he endorsed anyone, he made the case that all the Democrats would take the country in the right direction. When he endorsed, he praised Edwards and HRC and said they would be good Presidents. He has acted as a surrogate - where he has defended Obama against HRC attacks. There's nothing wrong with that - and he has been praised for not gratuituously attacking anyone.

I watched the MSNBC interview and I have NO idea what HRC are complaining about. Here is the summary I wrote on DU JK:

"Asked if HRC's comment that HRC has a life time of experience, McCain has the life time of experience, and Obama has a speech - whether that could hurt HRC if she were the ge candidate too. (a sneaky assumption of the Obama slam) - Kerry laughed and attacked the Obama slam - pointed out that obviously he had a life time of experience - which he then listed, culminating in his Senate years - pointing out he has more years of legislative experience than HRC and more fp than Reagan, Bush 2, and Clinton had.

He was then asked about today - said if the races were close in all states except VT, Obama could win fewer but gain more delegates. Hit the big state thing - mentioning that many big states were close - that he even got 42% in her state, NY and he did better in IL."

Where are the HRC attacks - he was asked about an ad - and he defused the attack on Obama - that's what an Obama surrogate does - not a word he said was untrue or even negative. The next part was on delegate numbers - whether right or wrong (and he was right) this is not an attack.

Did anyone here even see the segment?

[islandmkl]

13. karma is a m'f-er, ain't it?

[October]

96. I hope so. Kerry's got it coming.

After being loyal to him since his campaign, giving money, time, etc. it felt good to scrape off the Kerry bumpersticker.

He finally finds his fight -- against his own party? Finally opens his mouth and has an opinion -- but for some reason couldn't find his voice against Swiftboaters, or anything else his fellow Yale-mate in the White House was doing?

[karynnj]

124. He's not fighting against his own party

Did you even see the clip? Here's the summary I wrote on the JK group hours ago - the intent was to accurately write for my friends what he said - and I would include anything negative he said - but he is NOT someone who makes nasty comments.

"Asked if HRC's comment that HRC has a life time of experience, McCain has the life time of experience, and Obama has a speech - whether that could hurt HRC if she were the ge candidate too. (a sneaky assumption of the Obama slam) - Kerry laughed and attacked the Obama slam - pointed out that obviously he had a life time of experience - which he then listed, culminating in his Senate years - pointing out he has more years of legislative experience than HRC and more fp than Reagan, Bush 2, and Clinton had.

He was then asked about today - said if the races were close in all states except VT, Obama could win fewer but gain more delegates. Hit the big state thing - mentioning that many big states were close - that he even got 42% in her state, NY and he did better in IL. - he did not attack anyone, though he spoke for Obama."

[rpannier]

15. He may be angry about 04

I'd have more interest and respect for what he says if he had made an effort to challenge the Ohio race.

He didn't.
So, he and he alone is responsible for his not being in the White House.

[katty]

25. yeah, me too, but he did not challenge--no guts

[Straight Shooter]

54. I have the same opinion of him.

He didn't want to be tarred with a version of "Sore Loserman" and so he threw it all away after promising the night of the election that he would fight, and even made a ruckus when a pundit indicated that Kerry had agreed in a conversation that the election was stolen. Kerry squawked "No way!" and refused to validate the conversation.

He can blame it on Carville all he wants; the point is, he chose not to fight the results. Everyone else had to do the heavy lifting for him. Now he's just posturing in an attempt to get a position in an Obama administration.

[TheDebbieDee]

53. I almost cried when Kerry came out at 10am the next morning and conceded.

It seemed as though he couldn't get to the podium fast enough to concede the election.

I have never forgiven him for that and I never will!

[Horse with no Name]

81. I had forgiven him at one time for that

It wasn't easy but he LIED to us.
Edwards didn't want to give up.
I forgave him to the point that he was a party elder and deserved the respect of such.
UNTIL he started stumping for Obama.
I regressed to the opinion I had of him the day he conceded. Removed myself from his mailing list.
He is just another politician jockeying for a better position in Washington for himself.
After all of the goodwill that many gave him AFTER the election...he should have followed Gore's lead and stayed out of the fray until we had a nominee.

[karynnj]

125. Edwards never said word one on voter suppression, election fraud anything

throughout all of 2005. Kerry and his wife both spoke in detail on the election problems and voter suppression.

Did you forget that GORE ENDORSED DEAN in 2004.

[ProSense]

16. Kerry is just telling it like it is. He praised both candidates on CNN.

Kerry knows how to be consistent in supporting a candidate without using RW talking points to stab them in the back.

[Divernan]

19. Bill and Hillary each individually stabbed Kerry in the back

Bill was on a nationwide book tour where he gratuitously spoke up in support of W's decision to go into Iraq in the months preceeding the '04 election. Kerry mistold some joke in a campaign speech, and the GOP jumped all over it, and Sweet Hillary publicly condemned Kerry also. At one point, Hillary showed up at a Kerry presidential campaign fundraiser used it as an occasion to solicit campaign donations for her already grossly overfunded Senatorial campaign from Kerry's invited guests. Bill & Hill did whatever they could think of to make sure Kerry wouldn't win so Hill could run in 08.

That's Bill & Hill: rude, crude and socially unacceptable. Never turn your back on either one of them.

[JimGinPA]

21. She Also Pointed Her Finger & Slammed Him On That Flubbed Joke

:mad:

[JVS]

23. Hillary fucked him over wrt "stuck in Iraq"

[TheDebbieDee]

31. He fucked HIMSELF over when he apologized for those remarks!

[JVS]

42. Hillary was one of the people calling on him to apologize, along with Bush. Par for her course.

[TheDebbieDee]

63. But he should have stood by his words!

I don't care how many people called for him to apologize, he should have stood his ground and not backed down.

It was spineless of him to fold and apologize then and it's just as spineless of you and others to still blame Hillary Clinton for his deficiencies now!

[JVS]

68. Whatever. Don't be a crybaby. She gave him shit, and now it's his turn to shovel toward her.

That's why.

[TheDebbieDee]

77. Crybaby, my ass! Kerry fucked himself wrt to his laughless joke

and that's that!

He may have reasons to fling shit at the Clintons but him apologizing for his unfunny funny shouldn't be one of those reasons.

[JVS]

80. Hillary piled on. Deal with it.

[October]

99. Deal with yourself

Kerry never had a voice or opinion until it was to be negative against those in his own party.

Where the hell was his voice during his run for the presidency?

Disappointingly weak.

[beachmom]

129. That's funny, but I believe both Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama are running on Kerry's Iraq plan

The one he introduced in June 2006 which only garnered 13 votes.

Then there's their health care plans for which they took Kerry's health plan from 2004 and built on it.

Then there's the concept of Energy Independence, a phrase coined for the first time in a presidential election by Kerry.

Then there is the concept that combatting global climate change and "going green" is actually a way to make money and create jobs. Kerry was talking that up in late 2006 early 2007 when he and Teresa came out with their book This Moment On Earth.

Oh, yeah, and I think both Hillary and Barack are always going on about Bush taking his eye off the ball in Afghanistan where al Qaeda is. Gee -- who came up with that? Oh, that's right, that was a common refrain in Kerry's 2004 campaign.

The truth is that the reason there isn't much difference in policy positions between Hillary and Obama is because Kerry's campaign platform in 2004 plus Kerry's 2006 Iraq plan was SO GOOD it only needed to be tweaked.

[karynnj]

135. He said NOTHING negative about Clinton - nothing

He did refute her ad - that's the right thing to do.

Here is what I remember:
Asked if HRC's comment that HRC has a life time of experience, McCain has the life time of experience, and Obama has a speech - whether that could hurt HRC if she were the ge candidate too. (a sneaky assumption of the Obama slam) - Kerry laughed and attacked the Obama slam - pointed out that obviously he had a life time of experience - which he then listed, culminating in his Senate years - pointing out he has more years of legislative experience than HRC and more fp than Reagan, Bush 2, and Clinton had.

He was then asked about today - said if the races were close in all states except VT, Obama could win fewer but gain more delegates. Hit the big state thing - mentioning that many big states were close - that he even got 42% in her state, NY and he did better in IL.

[Sir Jeffrey]

24. Where the hell is blm?

[Mooney]

64. I know

There should have been 15 posts about BCCI by now.

[Sir Jeffrey]

71. ...

:rofl:

[Mike03]

26. Kerry turned his back on Edwards too.

It seems to be his signature lately.

[karynnj]

136. Edwards turned HIS back on Kerry and cut off contact - not the other way around

It was the Edwards who attacked the Kerrys - especially in Elizabeth's books and interviews. The Kerrys never responded in kind - ever.

[TheDeathadder]

29. Kerry likes to be in control of the party

Doesn't want to play second fiddle to the Clintons.

[OzarkDem]

45. Too late, he's never been in control of the Dem party

He's too lazy.

[TheDeathadder]

47. That's what privilege does to you

[truedelphi]

32. Here is the OP I created yesterday to end confusion over

The issue of what Clintonistas did to Kerry in 2004

http://tinyurl.com/3cm3vg

It has received 22 rec's so far.

[Dogmudgeon]

55. 22 recs? Then it *must* be true!

Besides, it's on the Internet!

--p!

[truedelphi]

92. I was told yesterday that it couldn't be true that he was screwed over because

Kerry never indicated that he was in any way upset by the Clintonistas and their Machiavellian tactics back in 2004

So today when he clearly appears upset with CLinton, it should mean that perhaps he was played for a fool by her and the "experienced" ones.

[Dogmudgeon]

142. Or maybe he was never screwed over by the Clintons at all

But that isn't as much fun, is it?

--p!

[truedelphi]

143. Watch "Primary Colors" the movie

It is being featured on HBO.

Written in 1998, by Joe Klein, it is a detailed portrait of the Clintons. Yes, poetic and dramatic license occurs, but a great deal of it is simply the transfer of Klein's observance of the CLintons' everyday behaviors onto the silver screen.

I found especially telling the scene where the idealist, Libby, has the goods on the Clinton's opponent - a Senator Picker.

Libby tells the Clintons about the Senator's drug days, as a test, hoping the Clintons will be humane and the Hillary character immediately responds - "We can see that that info gets to the media - in such a way that it can't be traced to our campaign."

Hmm, where have we noticed THAT behavior over the last four weeks??

BTW for your info, I wrote the first articles published in a newspaper anywhere in this Country that involved the stolen election of 2004. I was privy to a great deal of discussion about things that happened due to the Machiavellian nature of the Clintons during the 24 hour period immediately following the '04 election.

Google "We the People Do Not Concede"

[surfin]

33. Here is something I find interesting

We all knew Hillary's negatives were very high with the general population but it is looking like it is the same with the press, former President Clinton's staff and dems.

[blonndee]

37. I wonder why that is?

I mean, that so many people who don't know her and who DO know her...don't like her. :shrug:

[surfin]

43. You said it better than me

I really feel so many now have the chance to say what they really think of her and many have been burn by her and Kerry is one.

[sjdnb]

34. Only seven weeks after Bill Clinton's heart surgery, the former president and John Kerry campaigned

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/25/politics/campaign/25cnd-clinton.html?pagewanted=print&position

At the 2004 Dem Convention: Clinton Praises Kerry (transcript)
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,127101,00.html

"Kerry is hoping for a boost from Clinton, whose public role in the campaign has been limited since he underwent quadruple coronary artery bypass surgery September 6.

Clinton campaigned Monday evening in Miami, Florida, after his comeback speech earlier in the day in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. He travels to Nevada on Friday and New Mexico on Saturday.

On Sunday, Clinton returns to his home state of Arkansas for a campaign event."
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/10/25/clinton.monday/

Clintons turned their back on him??? Just more unsubstantiated Clinton bashing. Give me a break.

[OzarkDem]

Kerry is an arrogant jerk

No wonder he and Obama get along so famously.

[Hoof Hearted]

87. This is Kerry's last stab at trying to remain relevant.

He's an ass.

[October]

103. Yeah, truedelphi should read this /nt

[beachmom]

130. Bill Clinton spent all spring and summer PRAISING Bush's Iraq War.

In an election where national security played a prominent role which do you think swung the election more?

1. The former president praising the current president in how he conducted both the war on terror and the Iraq War.

2. The former president appearing with the Dem candidate talking mostly about his own presidency and domestic issues.

Hey, Bill knows how to APPEAR to help, while in the background, passively aggressively hurting the candidate.

[OzarkDem]

38. For starters, Bill won his presidential elections

Kerry is no doubt jealous. He ran a crappy campaign and knows it.

Bill Clinton made all the slacker East Coast Dems look like amateurs when he won 2 terms and left a great legacy of accomplishments.

[ProSense]

66. Is Hillary jealous that Kerry won the primary without using Rovian tactics? n/t

[OzarkDem]

72. Kerry is jealous, not Hillary

I'm sure she doesn't care much about Kerry's opinions one way or the other. The guy is widely viewed as a loser after he blew the 2004 election.

[ProSense]

83. Kerry won his primary, Hillary is struggling, and the only thing Bill is running is

Hillary's campaign into the ground.

[karynnj]

138. Bill ran against a President at 33% with the media mostly behind him

He also had people, like a decorated war hero who helped defend him when he was attacked by the Republicans on the draft.

Kerry had a hostile media and a President near 50% and a party that had let the state parties in key states disintegrate.

What were those accomplishments? - on your favorite topic - it was those New Englanders who initiated and designed S-CHIP. Kennedy and Kerry. On many other accomplishments, you may find they helped.

[stillcool]

40. For one thing....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk1k0nUWEQg
but there is much more. BLM has the goods.

[LaurenG]

85. Wow she was quite snarky and condeming of him, especially

placed next to McCain. :wow:

[stillcool]

108. It might have been bad then...

but it really stings now.

[Mass]

41. May be he believes that Obama is a better candidate and future president?

:shrug:

After all, he has worked with both and must have an opinion.

Also, he has been very polite concerning her, only defending Obama against her attacks (and has been defending her against one of Obama's attacks).

[OzarkDem]

44. Judging by his own performance in 2004

He's not one to judge the merits of another candidate.

[Mass]

59. Who made you judge of that? Thanks for your opinion, but I do not care what you think.

[October]

105. Really.

Other DU'ers might not care what you think...but I no longer care at all what Kerry thinks.

[karynnj]

139. He won the primary a lost easier than she is doing and without

losing his integrity. HRC has lost much of what she once was - she is losing her very soul.

[SoCalDem]

48. they did not want him to win..he would be running for re-election now..no HRC campaign

and she would have had to wait until '12 to run..& by then she might be perceived as "too old" :shrug:..just a guess

[bklyncowgirl]

49. I'm guessing he thinks they didn't help him a hell of alot in 2004.

Payback is a bitch.

Yes, Bill did do a few appearances--he gets a pass because he was recovering from heart surger--but I don't remember Hillary doing too much.

Maybe Kerry remembers that.

[midora]

52. TrueDelph, After I Read Your Thread Yesterday

I decided Kerry would be insane to support HRC after what the Clintons did to him. It's apparent he just can't stand Hillary Clinton.

[Adelante]

57. Kerry is not a spiteful man

He is simply campaigning for his chosen candidate.

[karynnj]

113. and there is absolutely not spiteful, mean,nasty etc he said

[fujiyama]

58. A couple reasons I think

Kerry must have got the impression (fairly obvious I think) that the Clintons were already making plans for running in '08 in case Kerry lost in '04. Kerry may feel the Clintons were never completely behind him in '04.

Also you have several Clinton surrogates after the '04 election trashing him, namely Terry McAullife. Now, needless to say, Terry has always been a Clinton loyalist. Since the election he's been very critical of the way Kerry handled the campaign. Also, I think Carville and his wife are viewed by him with great suspicion (understandably). Those are the main Clinton surrogates I think that pissed Kerry off.

Then there's Bill, who a few days after the election was reported to have advised Kerry to back individual state same-sex marriage bans. Kerry refused. This news came out soon after the election. Maybe Clinton himself leaked this. I don't know the details. Clinton has also made odd comments of praise for William Weld (in his book I believe) who ran against Kerry in a heated Senate election in '96.

Then of course the biggie - Hillary's figurative stabbing in the back regarding the botched joke. Hillary wasted no time in condemning his "joke". I think Kerry was hurt by this - and politically it was pretty much the end of his plans to run for president again. Since he's been somewhat close to Obama over the years (after all he did give him the keynote address) and he was never that fond of Edwards, I think it cemented him support for Obama in this election.

Politics is like a bizarre soap opera.

[meow mix]

61. i saw that too.. he tore em up. i was actually impressed with kerry

he was good!

[seabeyond]

62. clintons fucked him, numerous times. reap what you sow. n.t

[TheDebbieDee]

67. You say it, but you can't prove it!

The only thing sorrier than repuke revisionist history is divisive right-wing talking points regurgitated by Democrats trying to pass them off as unsubstantiated truths.

[seabeyond]

84. there is plenty of proof and fact, and a lot right here in this thread. nothing worse than repug

bury head in sand, except fellow dem doing the same

[OzarkDem]

70. The way he screwed Edwards?

the same way he's now sticking it to Hillary after Bill got out of his hospital bed to campaign for him.

Kerry is a major jerk.

[beachmom]

132. Incorrect. Edwards cut off Kerry after the 2004 election, wanting nothing

to do with him. I mean, say Kerry did want to endorse Edwards -- since Edwards refused to take his calls, how exactly would he tell him he wanted to support him?

[QC]

65. Too bad he didn't chew up Bush in 2004.

We might be living in a very different world now if he had.

[midora]

74. Kerry, You're Beautiful When You're Angry!

I liked you when you were a pussycat, but damn, I like seeing you mad!

[LittleClarkie]

126. My normal avatar is a drawing of Kerry as the Incredible Hulk

Indeed, he is beautiful when angry.

[goddess40]

73. for not warning him about Terry McAuliffe

or maybe to keep McAuliffe away from another democratic presidential candidate? He threw the last two under the bus, we don't need him anywhere near the campaign.

[Horse with no Name]

75. Bill didn't put his whole heart into supporting him during the last campaign

at the last minute he did but it wasn't enough.
Speculation at the time was because Bill didn't WANT Kerry to win in 2004...because the road wouldn't have been clear for Hillary in 2008.
Those were the rumors at the time. Judge for yourself how you want to interpret them.

[Tactical Progressive]

78. Finally blm gets a chance to post

on this topic relevant to an OP, and he's not here!

Calling blm.

Calling blm.

[mps]

88. Bill Clinton Did

Unfortunately, President Clinton had quadruple bypass surgery so he could not give his all to Senator Kerry in 2004 to get out the vote. After getting out of the hospital, Clinton went around the country promoting Kerry to be our next President, but because he looked so white and thin and thus sickly, Kerry probably got angry that people were taking about Clinton and not him.

mps

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

89. He's giving them a dish of something "best served cold". nt

[barack the house]

90. The story is that they got Carville to get him to concede with false info.

He must of just found out. If he conceded they could run 2008.

[Medusa]

94. They needed to clear the deck for HRC's run in 2008

they threw him under the bus. It's all about them, not the party. I wish the HRCers would wake up and see these people for what they truly are.

[LittleClarkie]

97. Feed the cube rats

What's he saying?

[Unsane]

98. Hillary Clinton hammered him on a botched joke in '06 in order to get him out of the race.

[YvonneCa]

111. Yep. n/t

[bentery]

104. Kerry is acting like a bitter loser and thinks the Clintons torpedoed them

[LittleClarkie]

107. He supports Obama. He's like any DUer who supports Obama and is sick of Clinton's tactics

Having a dog in this hunt will do that to a person.

[Beausoir]

116. Too bad he didn't show such fighting spirit last time. Day late...dollar short.

[YvonneCa]

119. Here's what I think...

...about Kerry on MSNBC:

He's fighting for what/who he believes in. He's fighting because he cares about his country. He has been fighting for his country for a VERY long time.

He didn't stop after Viet Nam.

He didn't stop after 9/11.

He didn't stop after we went to Iraq.

He didn't stop after being 'swift-boated.'

He didn't stop after November, 2004.

He didn't stop after the 2006 midterms and the 'botched joke'.

And he's not stopping now.

He is a fighter for what he believes this country needs. Some people here haven't been paying attention.

:patriot:

[beachmom]

128. It's what the Clintons are doing to the Party. It's them or nobody is what they're saying.

He was reacting to her despicable comments this past weekend where she "endorsed" McCain over Obama. I believe a lot of us were pretty damned angry about that. It ends up John Kerry was, too. He is a Democrat first and foremost, and the Clintons are at the point where they are harming our party.

I also don't think this endeared Kerry to Clinton much:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk1k0nUWEQg

[YvonneCa]

131. A picture is worth a thousand words...thanks for the video...

...link, beachmom. I watched it again and it made me ill. What an awful way to treat someone of your own party...especially after the days and months Senator Kerry put in to re-take the Congress for the Democratic Party.

[girl_interrupted]

134. Bill was recovering from heart surgey & still campaigned 4Kerry

And today, John Kerry played his trump card.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN (voice-over): At least 100,000 people jammed a Philadelphia park to cheer Bill Clinton's return to the campaign trail.

WILLIAM J. CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If this isn't good for my heart, I don't know what is.

ZAHN: In his first public appearance since heart surgery last month, the former president lavished praise on Senator John Kerry.

CLINTON: I am very proud of John Kerry and the campaign he has run. He never gives up. He never gives up.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0410/25/pzn.01.html

How quickly people on this board forget.

The 2004 election was Kerry's to win & he blew it all by himself.

Mr. "I've got your back" Kerry conceeded so quickly it made your head spin.

Mr. "I've got your back" Kerry who turned his back on John Edwards.

And oh yeah, When things were finally looking good for the dems in 2006...along comes Kerry & his "botched joke". Nearly gave us all a heart attack with his stupidity.


Yes we must hate the Clinton's...they never quit, they always win...yeah, thats what you have to hate about them...they never lose. How awful! Bill Clinton the only Democrat to defeat repubs twice in the last 20 years. How awful!

[YvonneCa]

141. I think it was great that...

...Bill Clinton campaigned for Kerry. I remember I was worried for his health, because he continued to look so ill for a long time after the quadruple bypass. Then he had another surgery and finally got well.

I love Bill Clinton...and Hillary. I think she'd be a very good president. If she's the nominee, I will work to get her elected.

And I love John Kerry. What's the deal with 'hating' members of our own party? I just don't like to see one Dem bash another Dem. I think that hurts all of us.

[Justitia]

144. Have you forgotten the knife in the back Hillary gave him over his joke?

The Clintons are way too quick to cut down other Dems for their own personal ambitions.