Breaking: Texas Dems warn of Clinton lawsuit that could shut down caucuses!!!

[mckeown1128]

The Texas Democratic Party is warning that its March 4 caucuses could be delayed or disrupted after aides to White House hopeful Hillary Clinton raised the specter of an "imminent" lawsuit over its complicated delegate selection process, officials said Thursday night.

In a letter sent out late Thursday to both the Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama campaigns, Texas Democratic Party lawyer Chad Dunn warned that a lawsuit could ruin the Democrats' effort to re-energize voters just as they are turning out in record numbers.

Another Democratic source who was privy to the often intense discussions confirmed that representatives of the New York senator's campaign had issued veiled threats in a telephone call this week.

"Officials from Senator Clinton's campaign at several times throughout the call raised the specter of 'challenging the process,' the official said. "The call consisted of representatives from both campaigns and the Democratic Party."

http://www.kansascity.com/449/story/510802.html

This seems to be about an unnamed problem with the caucus rules. Both campaigns seem to be having a problem agreeing on the rules. Both campaigns have denied that they are suing.... but the Texas Democratic Party seems to think that a Clinton lawsuit is imminent. If true it reminds me of the Clinton supported lawsuit in Nevada. I don't like these last minute lawsuits before elections.

[BringBigDogBack]

1. Disgusting.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

33. why only 1 recommend? Kicked and recommended, this should go on front page!

:kick:

This ought to turn off some voters, or HIllary is trying to find another way
to divide and conquer.

Its Big State Hillary this week, turning Latinos against African Americans,
joining Bush/MCCain in attacking democratic contender Obama.

She will do ANYTHING to get her coronation.

[WHAT]

45. won't recommend without proof...

(well, mostly)

too much lying

[tekisui]

59. The Clinton campaign officially denied the threat.

And, they said the have no reason for legal action.

As per the linked article.

[CaliforniaDreaming]

193. Their denial doesn't take away the written memo. nt

[Evergreen Emerald]

81. Obama challenged every state in which he lost--and you are complaining about

Clinton challenging the process? Don't you want a fair process?

[BearSquirrel2]

161. Judging from New York precinct results ...

Judging from some audited results, this seems wholly appropriate. This isn't a "winner take all" process. Rather Democratic primaries are typically proportional. So, yeah if the established Clinton machine is under counting votes, then it's appropriate for O'Bama to challenge for audits.

Note though, I think he was challenging regarding following the rules as opposed to changing them.

[rodeodance]

107. typical--condemn before you read the entire article:

"Officials from Sen. Clinton's campaign at several times throughout the call raised the specter of 'challenging the process,' the official said. "The call consisted of representatives from both campaigns and the Democratic Party.''

The source, who asked not to identified by name because he did not have authorization to speak about the matter, said Clinton 's political director, Guy Cecil, had forcefully raised the possibility of a courtroom battle.

But Adrienne Elrod, Clinton's top Texas spokeswoman, said campaign and party officials had merely discussed election night procedures and that the campaign was merely seeking a written agreement in advance. She could not elaborate on the details of the agreement the Clinton campaign is seeking.

"It is our campaign's standard operating procedure that we need to see what we are agreeing to in writing before we agree to it,'' Elrod said. "No legal action is being taken. We have no reason to take any legal action.''

[PITBOS]

188. Hillary will do ANYTHING to win. She's bad news.*

*

[BeyondGeography]

2. Last I looked, Texans hated lawyers getting in the way of anything

Feels like another Mark Penn political masterstroke to me. :sarcasm:

[FrenchieCat]

3. Master plan Penn?

Oooh. Good for Obama, no?

[BeyondGeography]

5. Sarcasm now included

[BenDavid]

4. unnamed sources and of course it is always HRC that is

going to be suing.....obama again is mr clean in this....wow.....oh and one other thing....the sun will rise and set tomorrow without the assistance of mr obama....

[The Anti-Bush]

7. Well, last time I checked, the only one with a problem with caucuses

was hillary clinton... are we forgetting Nevada?

[BringBigDogBack]

12. yep.

Hey Ben, put down the shades for a moment.

Do you really think it is Obama that wants to keep the caucuses from going off?

I didn't think so either.

Usually the one that stinks is the one who needs the bath.

[mckeown1128]

8. The Texas Democratic Party...isn't a reliable source...

:rofl: We will see who sues. I have no doubt in my mind as to who that will be. I would be willing to wager.

[anonymous171]

9. Caucuses aren't exactly Clinton's strong suit.

[John Q. Citizen]

16. The sun is setting...on Hillary. She did it herself to herself. Worst campaign in my lifetime, and

I'm in my 50's.

[BringBigDogBack]

18. me too,

and me too.

[Jawja]

60. Yes, I'm in my 50s and I will

have to agree it is one of the worst. Hillary is a great, capable candidate who ran a terrible campaign.

[goclark]

152. I'm over 60 and it is the most disappointing campaign

that I've seen from a skilled politician that I respected.

:cry:

[Cha]

172. If she were so great this wouldn't

be such a terrible campaign. The clintons have been campaigning since they left the whitehouse and the need to make hilary look tough helped the War on Iraq go forward.

If she were so capable she wouldn't have hired mark penn and all the others around her who have had their part in the inevitable one's being not so inevitable anymore.

[David Zephyr]

130. Mark Penn and the Clintons are really taking the low roads at every opportunity now.

I agree with you.

As much as I've posted I want her as VP, with these sort of continued actions, with keeping Mark Penn and his sick crowd in such comfy relations, I am beginning to feel she would stain Obama's high ethical reputation, his shunning lobbyist money, his high road approach.

If this story turns out to be true and the Clintons start twisting the rules (yet again), I will not be able to support her for VP anymore.

[LSK]

119. why would Obama have incentive to do this????????

He wins the caucuses.

I guess you skipped out on Logic 101.

[The Anti-Bush]

6. Please tell me this isn't true.

[mckeown1128]

10. The threat of suing is probably true...

Whether someone actually sues...I doubt it.

[tekisui]

61. The CLinton camp officially denied the threat to sue, said no legal action needed.

Read the article.

[mckeown1128]

66. umm... I did read the article... and I even stated that BOTH

campaigns denied preparing the lawsuit.

[IndianaGreen]

156. The Clinton camp is as credible as the Bush White House

If her lips are moving, she is lying!

[tekisui]

157. I can't say I disagree with you.

[krkaufman]

191. I expect it was a threat, as a trial balloon ...

... but they're backing-off after seeing the s**tstorm that was brewing. (It's not as though the HC campaign hasn't been trying to change the rules mid-game this election season, so this threat of a lawsuit is inherently believable.)

[rodeodance]

108. READ the article-

"Officials from Sen. Clinton's campaign at several times throughout the call raised the specter of 'challenging the process,' the official said. "The call consisted of representatives from both campaigns and the Democratic Party.''

The source, who asked not to identified by name because he did not have authorization to speak about the matter, said Clinton 's political director, Guy Cecil, had forcefully raised the possibility of a courtroom battle.

But Adrienne Elrod, Clinton's top Texas spokeswoman, said campaign and party officials had merely discussed election night procedures and that the campaign was merely seeking a written agreement in advance. She could not elaborate on the details of the agreement the Clinton campaign is seeking.

"It is our campaign's standard operating procedure that we need to see what we are agreeing to in writing before we agree to it,'' Elrod said. "No legal action is being taken. We have no reason to take any legal action.''

[ruggerson]

11. If one actually reads the article it's both campaigns disagreeing on the rules

the headline this journalist chose is misleading at best.

[mckeown1128]

13. that is why i posted that both campaigns have a problem with the rules.

But it seems the the Texas Dem party thinks that the lawsuit will be coming from the Clinton camp.

[ruggerson]

14. I doubt there will be any lawsuit

campaigns often have their reps talk about "challenging" the rules and then everything ultimately gets negotiated to mutual satisfaction.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

36. McClatchy Papers are thorough and careful

Their reporters do a good job.

[K Gardner]

73. This is all over the Texas Papers.. Austin, Dallas,, Ft Worth, etc..

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=texas+democratic+party+clinton+caucus+lawsuit

[Yael]

79. Good!

[rodeodance]

104. but you posted overzealous interpretations of what transpired

[BringBigDogBack]

19. .

"Officials from Senator Clinton's campaign at several times throughout the call raised the specter of 'challenging the process,'

"could be delayed or disrupted after aides to White House hopeful Hillary Clinton raised the specter of an "imminent" lawsuit over its complicated delegate selection process"


good call.

[ruggerson]

26. .

"It has been brought to my attention that one or both of your campaigns may already be planning or intending to pursue litigation against the Texas Democratic Party," Dunn said in the letter, obtained by the Star-Telegram. "Such action could prove to be a tragedy for a reinvigorated Democratic process."

"Both campaigns have made it clear that they would go there if they had to"

thanks.

[tekisui]

57. I wish people would read the article.

It says Clinton had threatened, not even currently threatening, and that both campaigns had raised the specter of a suit, only Clinton's was perceived as imminent. And this line:

"The Clinton campaign has officially denied any such threats."

and:

But Adrienne Elrod, Clinton's top Texas spokeswoman, said campaign and party officials had merely discussed primary night procedures and that the campaign was merely seeking a written agreement in advance. She could not elaborate on the details of the agreement the Clinton campaign is seeking. "It is our campaign's standard operating procedure that we need to see what we are agreeing to in writing before we agree to it," Elrod said. "No legal action is being taken. We have no reason to take any legal action."

jeez.

[catgirl]

Read THIS article! Houston Chronicle

The dem party announced this info. yesterday (Thurs.). They sent out letters to both
camps warning that this kind of action would undermine the elections in TX.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/politics/5580749.html

[loveangelc]

15. I hope this is heavily reported in Texas.

[mckeown1128]

17. It should be... all the major newspapers endorsed Obama...

But... somehow... I think this will die out before then.

[saltpoint]

20. The girl who can't dance claims the band can't play,

as the proverb goes.

[BringBigDogBack]

22. sad, no?

[saltpoint]

23. Hi, BBDB. I don't know what's going on down in Texas in these

private messges and phone calls, but it would really stink up the place to start threatening lawsuits at about the time the polling shows a reverse in fortunes.

I'll wait and see what happens, I guess.

[BringBigDogBack]

25. I was kind of thinking the same thing,

old friend.

Hopefully nothing comes of all of this.

[GoreVidalIsGod]

21. Oh, nothing these people do surprise me anymore.

[SeattleGirl]

24. What I wonder is, if either Clinton or Obama have a problem with

the Texas process, why wait until less than a week to say something about it? They have tons of staffers; couldn't they have put people on this earlier? Their complaints may be legit, but speaking up so late doesn't look good.

[JackORoses]

27. Obama pities the fool who messes with Texas!!!

[bigbrother05]

28. interesting

[bluestateguy]

29. Goddammit this better not be true!

Where were the Clintons when Baby Bush was stealing the election in 2000? Why didn't Bill Clinton use his Justice Department to take over the vote counting in Florida when Katherine Harris was pissing all over the Voting Rights Act?

[ArizonaJosie]

30. Oh God

[City Lights]

58. Hiya, ArizonaJosie!

:hi: Welcome to DU! :hi:

[ArizonaJosie]

154. Thank you!

[RiverStone]

31. Her motives would be so self evident...

That any attempt to win (or stop Obama from winning) with lawyers would backfire in a HUGE way.

Talk about taking an unpopular position...

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

32. This must be the "Anything to Win" Hillary - Election Fraud part of Kitchen Sink

Speaking of the Kitchen Sink Strategy, we are reminded once again how low
Hillary has "sunk".

[jackson_dem]

34. Good. Caucuses are a sham

Any system that allows Ron Paul to finish second or come within 6% of first is obviously not representative of the electorate as a whole. Rather it is subject to being purchased by candidates with deep pockets.

[GarbagemanLB]

35. Change the rules mid-race! Yay! If she does this, her future will rightfully be destroyed in the Dem

ocratic party.

[DesEtoiles]

41. Hillary - ready to whine and cheat on day one.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

48. dont forget her advisor Mark Penn is with same firm that advises McCain

its been a 24 hour hate fest, with Bush McCain and CLinton working together.

[Politicalboi]

167. And The New World Order

This is scary shit. Hillary and Cheney and Bush talking about NWO

http://www.jabberwonk.com/flinker.cfm?cliid=j1oex

[rodeodance]

112. says both camps are involved in negotiating the rules. Read before you spout!

[jefferson_dem]

77. Yeah. Citizens gathering together and telling others who they support and why...

A real "sham" there...

It's obvious to all what's happening here, jackson, whether you care to admit it or not.

Hillary is losing so she threatens and employs legal mechanisms to obstruct the election process.

Stay classy.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

170. Bill didn't whine about Texas rules when he ran

guess he's a lover not a whiner.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

177. Then Hillary should have challenged the caucus system before

the election season began. The complaints only came once her campaign realized that they were getting their asses handed to them in caucus states. Changing the rules midstream would turn this election into a sham - not unlike 2000 and 2004.

I would hardly categorize the Obama caucus victories this year as being "purchased by candidates with deep pockets". The difference in the amount of ground troops in the Obama campaign vs. the Hillary campaign is enormous, and he is bringing out independents and republican crossover voters. I know many.

[Barack_America]

37. First we support it. Then we understand it. Then we sue to change it.

The Clinton approach to "delegate math".

[meow mix]

38. wtf, is this primary getting ready to become a complete disaster?

i really dont like the way this thing has gone so far how bad is this going to get? riots?

[jlake]

39. I support Hillary 100%. She speaks for me!

[DesEtoiles]

42. is that a joke?

[DesEtoiles]

43. Where was she when the 2000 and 2004 elections were stolen????????

[metamars]

165. Where was she when the 2000 and 2004 elections were stolen????????

Taking notes?

[Yael]

82. 5 more days

[jefferson_dem]

84. "I had no idea how bizarre it is. We have grown men crying over it."

--Hillary on the Texas voting system.

http://www.caller.com/news/2008/feb/27/pres-_two_step_scramble/

[JustinL]

40. what makes this especially despicable, if true

Bill Clinton benefitted from the system in 1992. From an article by Carrie Dann at MSNBC:

With the last tones of a mariachi band hanging in the air at a rally in Odessa, he launched into his critique. "Frankly, the party leaders set this up," he said. "They knew nobody else would go to these conventions, and they could make sure they had a fair share of the folks that went to the national convention."

"It was never intended to basically reverse the results of a popular election in the daytime," warned the former president. "But it could happen."

What Clinton fails to mention is that in 1992, when he first ran for the White House, Texas and its hybrid system were very good to him. He captured 66 percent of the primary vote over his leading rival that year, former Sen. Paul Tsongas of Massachusetts, and won 94 of the pledged delegates at stake in the primary while Tsongas took 31 -- a 3-to-1 margin that Sen. Clinton can only dream about today.

And in the caucuses, which allocated another 69 pledged delegates, Clinton ended up walking away with 63. His campaign outperformed Tsongas in large part because he was supported by many of the "party leaders" -- such as the chairman of the Texas Democratic Party at the time, Bob Slagle, and two of Slagle's predecessors, Calvin Guest and Billy Goldberg -- whom Clinton seems to chastise today.

link

[City Lights]

63. So she knew about the system, but was unprepared for it because

she didn't think she'd need it. So she threatens to file a lawsuit.

Thanks for the info, JustinL. :hi: It makes her actions even more reprehensible.

[Tarheel_Dem]

115. Good catch...JustinL

It seems suspect that the Clinton camp, who has complained all along that caucuses benefit Obama, would even consider disrupting this process just because she finds herselef running behind now. I will be so glad when the Clintons leave the national stage, and are no longer the face of the Democratic Party.

[rodeodance]

IF?--no --NOT true--both camps say if suits NOT until after March 4--see this:

"Spokesmen for both campaigns said there were no plans to sue ahead of the March 4 election."
http://www.kansascity.com/449/story/510802.html

[Political Heretic]

44. And wow, the high level of respect I had for Hillary in 2007 and before had dwindled....

...to next to fucking nothing.

This is just getting so fucking ridiculous.

[judaspriestess]

46. Funny how Texas has been so hated for delivering bush and for just being Texas

all the post I've read on here how Texas is stupid, rednecks, they can leave the union blah, blah, blah

and now Texas is so fucking cool since it seems its going Obama's way. HIGHlarious

so so many glass houses.

[mckeown1128]

67. Well, you win the award for weakest attack on Obama supporters...

You have essentially set up the oddest straw-man argument. Please, tell me... Who said any of those things about Texas.... and who thinks it's cool now? ohh wait... you were talking out of your ass?! Try finding something real to throw the hypocrite/glass house insult at. Your weird small minded insult has nothing to do with my post.

PS: I don't think Texas is "cool"

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

47. Can't win em, break the rules

Bush Bush Bush Clinton Clinton Bush Bush QueenClinton

[Major Hogwash]

49. Oops, here's another one about it.

More reliable source - it's in the paper.

Good for lining the cage with later.

[CyberPieHole]

50. Sounds good to me...she should work the legal system for all it's worth.

Caucases suck big time.

[harun]

55. Like B*sh and Harris worked the legal system in 2000?

[billyoc]

65. I agree, that whole "voting" thing is *definitely* not working out.

:rofl:

[cui bono]

187. Yeah! FUCK DEMOCRACY!!! Let whoever can afford the best lawyers run the country!

:crazy:

:eyes:

[grantcart]

51. Obama is ready

One of the volunteers from my CD in California is an attorney and they specifically wanted him in Texas

They are also trying to prepare by having people bring video cameras to the caucuses

Here is more detail
http://www.texasobserver.org/article.php?aid=2689

Consequently, the potential for caucus confusion or worse is significant. For starters, the March 4 precinct conventions can’t begin until the last regular precinct ballot is cast. With record turnout expected, long lines could delay the start of caucuses in some precincts by hours. In just one Harris County precinct, which presents an unusually long ballot this year, Harris County Democratic Party volunteer Leif Hatlen expects 2,000 primary voters. But heavy turnout won’t be the only hurdle to an efficient caucus. There’s also enormous complexity.

“It’s a Byzantine process,” said Glen Maxey, a former state representative from Austin and caucus expert.

Ed Martin, an old Democratic hand, describes a recent DNC conference call he was on. “The biggest concern they’re getting from the campaigns is the potential for mischief,” Martin said.

Democrats are vague on the specifics of what irregularities might arise, but one potential problem area is the manner in which delegates are awarded to candidates in the precinct conventions. When voters arrive at the caucus they sign in with their name, address, voter ID number and presidential preference. They will then be checked against voter rolls to make sure they voted in the Democratic primary for that precinct. Then delegates are divvied up based on each candidate’s share of sign-in-sheet supporters. Even insiders are confused about the system’s nuances and potential loopholes.

“You can literally sign people in who aren’t there,” Davis told the Observer. “… It’s just ripe for abuse.”

Texas Democratic Party communications director Hector Nieto insists that only those who are present can be counted, but that message clearly hasn’t reached everyone.

Nieto said his office is training county chairs in the process, coordinating with the campaigns, and planning to deploy field staff statewide to monitor the caucuses. “We’re confident that we’ll have a smooth caucus process,” Nieto said.

But with more than 8,000 precincts in the state, it will be impossible to place independent monitors everywhere. Davis, of Texans for Obama, is encouraging Obama supporters to take video cameras to the polls. “I want to shine a big flashlight on this so nothing under the table happens,” he said.

Party insider Martin is less worried, arguing that the highly competitive nature of the contest itself could help prevent widespread irregularities. “The campaigns, ultimately, are the police,” he said.

Regardless of the Texas primary’s absurdly involved and unwieldy infrastructure, Texas Democrats expect to profit from the unprecedented focus on the state. The expected surge in turnout at the polls will deliver new donors, activists, and fresh energy as the party tries to rebuild, Martin said.

In fact, Martin thinks the process, despite its inherent difficulties, “has the potential to be beneficial to Democrats more than ever before.”

It also has the potential, of course, to put Hillary Clinton right back in the hunt, or push Barack Obama imposingly close to over the top. And that, finally, despite the arcana and the moving-target math, is why Texas matters come March

[Tatiana]

52. I suspect this is just another idea Penn and Wolfson are floating to gauge reaction.

Much like the whole superdelegate thing. Once they see that the majority of voters are vehemently against this tactic, they will likely back off.

[babylonsister]

53. For cryin' out loud, desperation, thy name is Clinton? This is beyond

the ken. Howard Dean needs to get the hook if they even attempt this. :grr:

[Mass]

54. We already knew that the Clintons do not think rules apply to them.

Either that or she really did not know of these rules and in this case, it raises a lot of questions about her ability to govern.

[City Lights]

56. I'd think long and hard before "George Bushing" my way into the WH

if I were you, Hillary. :thumbsdown:

Shame on you, Hillary, for being unprepared for the primary season to continue beyond Super Tuesday, and crying foul now that you've realized you're in a pickle. :spank:

[jakem]

62. kick.

middle of the game is not the time to change the rules.

[nlb]

64. it'd be devastating for her

whether she wins it that way or loses .

same goes for the FL and MI delegates.

[Occam Bandage]

68. Wow. The Clintons are literally going to shut down democracy if they think it won't go their way.

[flyarm]

87. seems to me the article said it could be clinton or obama..so you are assuming alot!

i guess you don't read do you..you just go about bashing without reading !

[Avalux]

69. Clinton becomes more like Bush every day. This is something he and Rove would pull.

The primary rules have been in place for a long time; it's not anyone's fault Clinton's campaign can't get their shit together enough to figure it out and instruct their supporters.

[Independent-Voter]

70. Clinton is already Bush in a Pantsuit. Who are you kidding?

[K Gardner]

71. Clinton seeks WRITTEN AGREEMENT in advance of Texas Caucus

But Adrienne Elrod, Clinton's top Texas spokeswoman, said campaign and party officials had merely discussed election night procedures and that the campaign was merely seeking a written agreement in advance. She could not elaborate on the details of the agreement the Clinton campaign is seeking.

"It is our campaign's standard operating procedure that we need to see what we are agreeing to in writing before we agree to it,'' Elrod said. "No legal action is being taken. We have no reason to take any legal action.''

Obama spokesman Josh Earnest said the Obama campaign had no plans to sue.

"We're confident that by working closely with the Texas Democratic Party and the Clinton campaign we'll have a caucus that Texans can be proud of — because every eligible voter will be allowed to participate and have their vote counted in a timely manner," Earnest said.

The letter to the two campaigns did not specify what procedures or rules might trigger a lawsuit. But one party official said the campaigns were most concerned about the caucus process, or, as the party refers to it, the "precinct conventions.''

Texas has 228 delegates, the biggest single cache remaining. But only 126 delegates are doled out based on the selection voters make at the ballot box. Another 67 delegates — more than in many states — are to be apportioned based on the number of people who participate in the caucuses that begin in over 8,000 precincts once the polls close at 7 p.m. (The remaining 35 are so-called "superdelegates'' free to support whomever they choose).

Clinton campaign aides have argued that caucuses favor Obama, whose campaign organization has turned out overwhelming numbers at caucuses in other states.

Democrats have described the enthusiasm in Texas, as evidenced by the record turnout among early voters in the most populous counties, as a sign that the party is undergoing a revival after years of decline under virtually unchallenged Republican rule.

"If it is true that litigation is imminent between one or both of your campaigns and the (Democratic Party), such action coule prove to be a tragedy for a reinvigorated democratic process that is involving a record number of participants here in Texas and across the nation,'' Dunn, the state party lawyer, wrote.

[WolverineDG]

175. WTF

:wtf:

Why does she need a "written agreement" in advance of the caucuses? The goddamn rules are posted on the internet & have not changed FOR YEARS!! FFS! Now I know why the local clintonistas were whining about being able to video & audiotape the caucuses---I guess they're telling each other that we big mean Obama people are going to cheat. :eyes:

And thanks for another reason for me to vote against her.

dg

[Pryderi]

72. JAMES BAKER TO REPRESENT CLINTONS!!!

j/k

[Arugula Latte]

150. Next they'll orchestrate a "riot" of "citizens" (aka Hillary staffers)

[K Gardner]

74. This was just reported on MSNBC and Chuck Todd verified

that it was true, that Clinton is gearing up to make a possible Obama "win" appear inconsequential. It is also being reported in all the Texas papers today.

[Pryderi]

75. It's too late, Hillary. There's nothing left in you that I can live with.

You're one of those humanoids. If I stay with you, I'll be destroyed. Like Howard Dean was destroyed. Like John Kerry was destroyed. Like everything you and the institution of Clinton touch is destroyed. You're Bush incarnate, Hillary: Indifferent to suffering; insensitive to joy. All of life is reduced to the common rubble of banality. War, murder, death are all the same to you as bottles of beer. And the daily business of life is a corrupt comedy. You even shatter the sensations of time and space into split seconds and instant replays. You're madness, Hillary. Virulent madness. And everything you touch dies with you. But not me. Not as long as I can feel pleasure, and pain... and love.

[jefferson_dem]

76. More from TPM and politico...

Suing Texas?

On a conference call earlier this week, Clinton field director Guy Cecil reportedly took a hard enough line on the Texas caucuses that the Texas Democratic Party sent a letter (.pdf) to both campaigns warning that any lawsuit would be a "tragedy" that could "cripple the momentum of a resurging Texas Democratic Party."

Caucuses in the past have been chaotic and overcrowded. I was told by a participant in the call that Clinton's representative specifically refused to agree in advance to moving elements of the process outdoors if the caucuses sites are over capacity.

Moments like this always have two sides: The substantive, legal one; and the political side. And whatever the substance, you can be sure the reported litigation threat will be an Obama talking point in the run-up to the election.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/


Report: Clinton Camp Threatened Lawsuit Over Texas Primary/Caucus
By Eric Kleefeld - February 29, 2008, 8:53AM

The Texas Democratic Party has taken an interesting step for the upcoming hybrid primary/caucus: Asking the campaigns not to sue. "It has been brought to my attention that one or both of your campaigns may already be planning or intending to pursue litigation against the Texas Democratic Party," wrote party attorney Chad Dunn in a letter. "Such action could prove to be a tragedy for a reinvigorated Democratic process."

According to party officials speaking under anonymity, the threat of a lawsuit has come from the Clinton campaign, during a conference call between the party and the campaigns. "Officials from Sen. Clinton's campaign at several times throughout the call raised the specter of 'challenging the process,'" according to one source.

Adrienne Elrod, spokeswoman for the Hillary campaign in Texas, denied the allegation and said the campaign was merely seeking a written agreement. "It is our campaign's standard operating procedure that we need to see what we are agreeing to in writing before we agree to it," Elrod said. "No legal action is being taken. We have no reason to take any legal action."

It's not clear what the campaign would be threatening to sue over, nor what issues are/were the subject of negotiations between the campaigns and the Texas Dems. We'll have more information soon.

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/02/report_clinton_camp_threatened.php

[dailykoff]

78. She's right -- voting is just another name for discrimination!

Hillary is a victim of democracy!

[jefferson_dem]

80. Hillary: *Votes* don't count.

n/t

[City Lights]

83. Good night, Hilly!

Your 15 minutes are up. Don't let the door hit ya in the backside on the way out!

[dempartisan23]

85. clinton is ripping us to shreds

this woman will get mccain elected with her hate and lawsuits.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

86. TX is fucked up only 100 of the 200+ delegates are awarded on Tuesday the rest not until June caucus

[tammywammy]

140. Too bad it's been set up this way for decades

:eyes:

[my3boyz]

88. They just reported this on MSNBC...I think this could

actually hurt Hillary with the people that live in Texas.

[dempartisan23]

89. hillary has delared war on the democrat party

im starting to wonder if she is secretly working with john mccain

[City Lights]

92. DemocratIC Party.

Just sayin'...

[Scurrilous]

90. K & R

:thumbsup:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

91. I Applaud Her And Obama's Efforts With This. The Caucus System There Is A Disgrace.

And to those knee jerk Obama supporters going for her throat on this, use your damn heads for a change. The process is a sham and we should ALL care a bit more about the legitimacy of the electoral process, even during primaries. Try, just TRY for once to be not so blindingly partisan in your knee jerk reactions. Jesus.

[flyarm]

93. no kidding...that system is not democratic and it is a sham! and a shame. eom

[rodeodance]

99. Yes as it says-"both campaigns have made it clear that they might consider legal options"

Democratic sources said both campaigns have made it clear that they might consider legal options over the complicated delegate selection process, which includes both a popular vote and evening caucuses. But the sources made it clear that the Clinton campaign in particular had warned of an impending lawsuit.

[mckeown1128]

118. It's not the argument it is the timing...

There was no news of lawsuits until the polls changed directions.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

126. What Is Right Remains Right, Despite Timing Or Intent.

I care more about the process itself, than the reasons as to why someone would or wouldn't want it changed.

[cui bono]

190. Them's the rules. You can't go changing them just because you see trouble ahead.

Just like the Michigan and Florida primaries. Everyone knew the rules, when they went ahead with them they knew the Democratic Party would not count their delegates.

Anyone can see she's grasping to get delegates because she's fallen behind and doesn't want to lose. Remember the story that she was going to try to use the superdelegates to override the voters if she needed to? And then there was the story about her planning on "stealing" delegates at the convention that were pledged to Obama.

You don't even have to open your eyes to see it. Anyone who won't admit it is in denial.

[crispini]

120. Excuse me? We've been using it for TWENTY YEARS.

I for one LIKE IT. And I LIVE HERE. Please tell me on what grounds you find our process that we have been using for A LONG time "a sham?" This is a completely unfounded accusation.

[tammywammy]

141. Thank you Crispini

Ditto on that.

[IndianaGreen]

139. Bill Clinton won the Texas prima-caucus in '92 and '96. Hillary didn't bitch about it!

But now she is!

[JackORoses]

144. What do you mean her and Obama's efforts? This threat of lawsuit is all Hillary's

I can't believe you even typed that. You had to intentionally decide to propagate this a talking point.

Talk about being blindingly biased.

Look at what your candidate is doing! She cannot win, so she sues.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

153. Please Learn How To Read.

It is clear they both have issues with it. One side may be talking a bit more strongly, but the other is upset with it and trying to resolve it as well.

The only knee jerking and bias is coming from you pal.

[JackORoses]

162. wrong, one side is defending the rules as they are

the other is threatening a lawsuit to get them changed.

It won't help.

And it just makes Hillary into more of a laughing stock.

[Fire_brand]

94. Your honor, I move that this court declare that

Texas doesn't count

[rodeodance]

102. article says BOTH camps are considering legal options

[Occam Bandage]

122. And it says Clinton's is the only camp that's been threatening lawsuits.

[TheZug]

95. NPR: Texas system has been in place since 1972!

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=19211076

It may be crazy, but it's not like they cooked it up this year to foil the Clinton campaign.

[suston96]

96. But why isn't the real question being asked?

Can Texas voters participate in BOTH the daytime elections AND the evening caucuses?

[blogslut]

142. Yes

That is why it is called the Texas Two-step. Vote in the primary and then caucus that night. A hybrid primary and caucus.

Why is that a problem?

[tammywammy]

145. Yes

You have to participate in the democratic primary in order to participate in the caucus. If you vote in the democratic primary you get your card stamped or a slip of paper that allows you to participate in the caucus.

[ericgtr]

97. Just because her campaign didn't understand it

doesn't mean the voters don't. Obama's campaign knew from the very beginning what it would take and has articulately planned a well thought out plan for it and educated them on how it works.

[rodeodance]

100. Then why does it say that BOTH camps " have made it clear that they might consider legal options"

Democratic sources said both campaigns have made it clear that they might consider legal options over the complicated delegate selection process, which includes both a popular vote and evening caucuses. But the sources made it clear that the Clinton campaign in particular had warned of an impending lawsuit.

[rodeodance]

98. "both campaigns have made it clear that they might consider legal options "

Democratic sources said both campaigns have made it clear that they might consider legal options over the complicated delegate selection process, which includes both a popular vote and evening caucuses. But the sources made it clear that the Clinton campaign in particular had warned of an impending lawsuit.

[rox63]

101. I guess TX won't count (according to HRC's campaign) after Tuesday

Another firewall goes up in flames. :eyes:

[rodeodance]

103. OP is FLAMEBAIT at best-read the entire article:

"Officials from Sen. Clinton's campaign at several times throughout the call raised the specter of 'challenging the process,' the official said. "The call consisted of representatives from both campaigns and the Democratic Party.''

The source, who asked not to identified by name because he did not have authorization to speak about the matter, said Clinton 's political director, Guy Cecil, had forcefully raised the possibility of a courtroom battle.

But Adrienne Elrod, Clinton's top Texas spokeswoman, said campaign and party officials had merely discussed election night procedures and that the campaign was merely seeking a written agreement in advance. She could not elaborate on the details of the agreement the Clinton campaign is seeking.

"It is our campaign's standard operating procedure that we need to see what we are agreeing to in writing before we agree to it,'' Elrod said. "No legal action is being taken. We have no reason to take any legal action.''

[rodeodance]

110. OP left out details--like this:

"Officials from Sen. Clinton's campaign at several times throughout the call raised the specter of 'challenging the process,' the official said. "The call consisted of representatives from both campaigns and the Democratic Party.''

The source, who asked not to identified by name because he did not have authorization to speak about the matter, said Clinton 's political director, Guy Cecil, had forcefully raised the possibility of a courtroom battle.

But Adrienne Elrod, Clinton's top Texas spokeswoman, said campaign and party officials had merely discussed election night procedures and that the campaign was merely seeking a written agreement in advance. She could not elaborate on the details of the agreement the Clinton campaign is seeking.

"It is our campaign's standard operating procedure that we need to see what we are agreeing to in writing before we agree to it,'' Elrod said. "No legal action is being taken. We have no reason to take any legal action.''

[mckeown1128]

116. No flame bait... I could only put 4 paragraphs...

I also summorized the rest. I said that both campaigns denied a lawsuit. What exactly did I lie or misrepresent?

[dailykoff]

105. They know they'll lose the caucuses. The electronic voting they can rig.

It worked in NH.

[rodeodance]

109. Try reading the article before you spout off.

[dailykoff]

111. 'Hillary Clinton raised the specter of an "imminent" lawsuit '?

That part?

[rodeodance]

125. overinterpretation as is the OP

[rodeodance]

106. Read what the Clinton spokes person said please:

"Officials from Sen. Clinton's campaign at several times throughout the call raised the specter of 'challenging the process,' the official said. "The call consisted of representatives from both campaigns and the Democratic Party.''

The source, who asked not to identified by name because he did not have authorization to speak about the matter, said Clinton 's political director, Guy Cecil, had forcefully raised the possibility of a courtroom battle.

But Adrienne Elrod, Clinton's top Texas spokeswoman, said campaign and party officials had merely discussed election night procedures and that the campaign was merely seeking a written agreement in advance. She could not elaborate on the details of the agreement the Clinton campaign is seeking.

"It is our campaign's standard operating procedure that we need to see what we are agreeing to in writing before we agree to it,'' Elrod said. "No legal action is being taken. We have no reason to take any legal action.''

[dailykoff]

113. "'Clinton's campaign at several times ... raised the specter of 'challenging the process,'

the official said."

That part? :shrug:

[Occam Bandage]

121. It seems that more and more, we're playing "who do you believe--Clinton or everyone else?"

[Kittycat]

114. Hillary For Republican Nominee!!!

This, coupled with her latest fear mongering ad... I say she's trying to switch sides.

[stillrockin]

117. Bien joué, Hill. Like a true rethug.

[high density]

123. Why wasn't the Clinton campaign fighting this stuff a year ago

This is insane.

[City Lights]

132. She was supposed to have the nomination wrapped up on Super Tuesday.

She literally didn't think Texas was gonna matter.

[Obamaniac]

124. Hillary seems to want lawyers to tell us who the nominee should be...

This is what? Her third law suit? First Nevada, then Florida/Michigan, now Texas.

Let people choose the nominee Hillary, not lawyers!

[book_worm]

127. The Clinton's looking at the polls and deciding to change the rules in the 4th quarter.

[NoBorders]

128. I really don't get why her campaign pulls this stuff

It's common sense and obvious that pulling a move like this, trying to change the rules at the last minute in her favor, would be widely viewed as a cynnical, manipulative ploy, and it would almost certainly destroy what's left of her chances. Makes me wonder what they think they gain with this kind of posturing and sabre rattling.

[seafan]

129. "...representatives of the NY senator's campaign had issued veiled threats in a telephone call ..."

This is taking a very ugly turn.



Officials: Clinton aides threatened lawsuit over Texas caucuses

By JAY ROOT
McClatchy Newspapers

February 28, 2008

The Texas Democratic Party warned Thursday that election night caucuses scheduled for next Tuesday could be delayed or disrupted after aides to Hillary Clinton threatened to sue over the party's complicated delegate selection process.
In a letter sent out late Thursday to both the Clinton and Barack Obama campaigns, Texas Democratic Party lawyer Chad Dunn warned a lawsuit could ruin the Democrats' effort to re-energize voters just as they are turning out in record numbers.

.....

Democratic sources said both campaigns have made it clear that they might consider legal options over the complicated delegate selection process, which includes both a popular vote and evening caucuses. But the sources made it clear that the Clinton campaign in particular had warned of an impending lawsuit.

"Both campaigns have made it clear that they would go there if they had to, but I think the imminent threat is coming from one campaign,'' said one top Democratic official, referring to the Clinton campaign. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity.
Another Democratic official who was privvy to the discussions confirmed that Clinton representatives made veiled threats in a telephone call this week.
"Officials from Sen. Clinton's campaign at several times throughout the call raised the specter of 'challenging the process,' the official said. "The call consisted of representatives from both campaigns and the Democratic Party.''
The source, who asked not to identified by name because he did not have authorization to speak about the matter, said Clinton 's political director, Guy Cecil, had forcefully raised the possibility of a courtroom battle.

.....

Obama spokesman Josh Earnest said the Obama campaign had no plans to sue.

"We're confident that by working closely with the Texas Democratic Party and the Clinton campaign we'll have a caucus that Texans can be proud of — because every eligible voter will be allowed to participate and have their vote counted in a timely manner," Earnest said.

.....

Clinton campaign aides have argued that caucuses favor Obama, whose campaign organization has turned out overwhelming numbers at caucuses in other states.
Democrats have described the enthusiasm in Texas, as evidenced by the record turnout among early voters in the most populous counties, as a sign that the party is undergoing a revival after years of decline under virtually unchallenged Republican rule.
"If it is true that litigation is imminent between one or both of your campaigns and the (Democratic Party), such action coul(d) prove to be a tragedy for a reinvigorated democratic process that is involving a record number of participants here in Texas and across the nation,'' Dunn, the state party lawyer, wrote.

If this is true, Hillary Clinton is showing us that she is willing to destroy the party to feed her blind ambition.

This development is very ugly.


But, something is deeply happening in this country. And it is a tsunami that Mrs. Clinton's candidacy will likely not survive.

[Orsino]

131. This is how machines operate.

The Clinton campaign, whatever the talents of the candidate, is a machine.

[Gman]

133. It is absolute insanity to expect to report caucus signins on Tuesday night

because of the 10's maybe 100's of thousands of precincts in the state. Nothing is even official until the precinct chair turns in the forms and he/she has 3 days to do that. Anybody that thinks differently doesn't have a single, solitary clue how it works in Texas.

Hillary is 100% within her rights to do what she's doing to stop this looming sham of a process due to the Obamabot cult that want to hide the true results so they can cry, whine and complain that the results weren't what their media friends said they were.

I will now hide GD: P again, but I saw this story and knew the Obamabot cult would have voted it up to the top of the page in mindless reflexive action.

[jefferson_dem]

134. Method to the Clinton camp's madness - delay and disrupt the reporting of the delegate count (mydd)

Freaking scumbags...

Threatening the Texas Primary/Caucus
by Glenn Smith, Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 11:42:02 AM EST

There is method to the Clinton campaign's mad preemptive sword rattling over the Texas primary/caucus. They want to delay and disrupt the reporting of the delegate count. They hope that if they win the popular vote, they can avoid, at least for one news cycle, news reports that even if they do so they will very likely lose the delegate fight in Texas and fall further behind Obama in the national delegate contest.

This is not speculation. This has been the subject under discussion. While I have not been part of that discussion, plenty of sources last night and this morning confirmed this as the core of the dispute.

It is widely assumed that Obama's organizational advantage will achieve in the caucus portion of the Texas election just what it has achieved in earlier caucuses: a significant victory in delegates. There are 67 delegates at stake in those caucuses. The Clinton campaign would like to delay the reporting of the caucus results, and that is why they have continually "reserved the right to challenge" Texas law and Democratic party procedures.

Throw the Texas delegate results in dispute, and win or lose the popular vote, they will have advanced their case that the contest remains close and should go all the way to the convention if necessary.

<SNIP>

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/2/29/11422/4348

[mod mom]

135. I heard an atty for the TX Dem Party on Ed Schultz say TX Dems are not happy w

a challenge to their process. Said the rules were set by them.

[SteveM]

136. A Ford Edsel is "complicated," but why wait til now to fix it? (nt)

[IndianaGreen]

137. Bush gave us Bush v. Gore. Hillary will give us Clinton v. DNC.

Never mind that Bill Clinton benefited from those very rules when he won the Texas prima-caucus in 1992. Hillary will just as soon destroy the Democratic Party than to see anyone other than herself as the nominee.

[RBInMaine]

138. HRC aka "Frustrated and Desperate"

[rcsl1998]

143. If This Is True (or believed to be), Blowback On Clinton Will Be Huge... nt

[TexasObserver]

146. Hillary wants to prove she's a lousy lawyer as well as a lousy candidate

She's hoping to pull a rabbit out of her ass.

[adoraz]

147. how stupid are they?

wow. this is NOT the way to win. This news will only hurt them.

[blogslut]

148. You know what? Go ahead and sue, Hillary.

Today is the last day of early primary voting in Texas. The formal primary is this Tuesday. Tell the whole state you're going to sue its Democratic party. You do that. You announce it to the world. Go on a publicity blitz! Get yourself to court and begin the proceedings. Please.

Come back on March 5 and we'll talk about what happened to you in the popular vote.

[dchill]

149. And this will help her...

how?

[backscatter712]

151. She'd better not try this.

The Texans will tar and feather her if she pulls a stunt like this.

[Maineman]

155. Desperation is an ugly thing, isn't it?

An obsessive thirst for power is pretty ugly, too.

[butterfly77]

158. The more she does things like this...

the more people run to Obama, because they see her as whining as though she is suppose to be the nominee..

[natrat]

159. jeez wonder why people think she's a duplicitous scumbag

[golddigger]

160. Self delete...

[Emillereid]

163. These kind of tactics not only make Clinton look like a spoil sport, it may wreck the party.

The State democratic parties make the rules and Clinton didn't say peep until she started losing. Bad form all round!!

[graywarrior]

164. Jeeze, has someone threatened Hillary with her life if she didn't win this election?

[tmoore411]

166. You lose all rights to claim the msm is lying later on when you

use the newspapers and televisions talking points without doing any research and/or vetting of this. The article states that BOTH candidates have problems with the process, that BOTH campaigns have prepared legal responses and yet when some anonymous RNC staffer leaks to the press that the Clinton campaign will be more likely to sue and then runs back to the RNC offices to watch the fireworks, suddenly, Clinton is a cheating, evil person and should just lay down and give Obama what he RIGHTFULLY :sarcasm: deserves. This gives you NO LEGS to stand on in 2 months when the MSM is tearing Obama down with lies and innuendo, because you can't choose when to believe the lies, you believe ALL of them or NONE of them.

I still have not decided on a candidate, and probably won't until I go to the primary polls on Mar. 4th (and yes, I am a Texas resident and yes, this system is one of the biggest crocks of bullshit ever perpetrated on a voting public, regardless of how long it has been in place). Because of the overwhelming CRAP I have seen not just here, but internet, television and MSM wide regarding Clinton AND Obama and the vitriol and sarcasm and outright viciousness of the supporters of both candidates, it would seem that we have indeed come to the proverbial "When in ROME moment" as democrats.

My family is mostly Republican except for myself and my grand-parents and most of them adhere to the notion that Bush is not to be questioned, because that would be admitting they were wrong. Well, that is all I see with this campaign and honestly, at least IMO, it is decidedly coming more from the Obama campaign. Everything they say, when wrong, is we "misspoke" or "weren't in the loop" or "didn't know what was going on", yet anything Clinton says is immediately dissected and when she says it was a mistake, she is vilified because she only said that because it made her look bad, etc.

My 9th grade civics teacher taught me the difference in the 3 branches of government, and anyone who thinks Obama is gonna clean up Washington should be out farting in a hurricane, the result will be the same. The President doesn't MAKE laws, the office of President is in place to ENFORCE laws. Until the entire culture (and that means entrenched reps and senators on both sides) is swept clean (well cleaner anyway) there will be no significant change in government, and Obama insults everyones intelligence by claiming he can do this.

Again, just my 2 cents, but really, most of you are kidding right ?? I got a third grader that knows more about government than most of the people on this board show in their posts.

[mckeown1128]

181. Sounds to me like you HAVE made up your mind.

And what RNC staffer are you talking about... this story comes from the Texas Democratic Party... I didn't know the Texas Democratic Party was really a branch of the RNC. :sarcasm:

[tmoore411]

189. Then you don't know Texas very well

There are so many R's here, sometimes I wonder if there really is a DNC down here. And what I was inferring was that suddenly, on the WORD of an anonymous staffer, Clinton is a lying, cheating bitch and SAINT OBAMA just wants what is right.

And yes, as of the unmitigated bullshit coming out of both the Obama camp and from his own mouth, I have made up my mind that until the primary season is over, I will support Clinton. At least she is honest when she lies, whereas Obama lies while holding up his "virtue" :sarcasm: for the world to worship.

GET A GRIP.

[mckeown1128]

199. So, pretty much you lied about not deciding who you were going

to support. ohh wait...wait... now your gonna tell me that you just decided... :eyes:

Hey, why do you have to resort to Sexist crap huh? I am sure all of those concerned Clinton supporters who have a problem with sexist statements about Hillary will rush to condemn you...any minute now... ... ... ...

[WolverineDG]

168. No wonder the Clintonistas in my county

asked if they could video & audio-record the caucuses. THEY are the ones who are trying to game the system here, not Obama.

dg

[rodeodance]

174. Know your facts before you spout off:

"Spokesmen for both campaigns said there were no plans to sue ahead of the March 4 election."
http://www.kansascity.com/449/story/510802.html

[WolverineDG]

176. so why was the clinton spokesperson so quoted? n/t

[apocalypsehow]

169. Now there's a Rovian tactic: if you can't win with votes, try to sue your way to victory. Typical.

n/t

[rodeodance]

173. And it is typical of you NOT to read before you spout off!--read this:

"Spokesmen for both campaigns said there were no plans to sue ahead of the March 4 election."
http://www.kansascity.com/449/story/510802.html

[tabasco]

178. Take your own advice.

"But the sources made it clear that the Clinton campaign in particular had warned of an impending lawsuit."

[rodeodance]

171. "Spokesmen for both campaigns said there were no plans to sue ahead of the March 4 election."

"Spokesmen for both campaigns said there were no plans to sue ahead of the March 4 election."
http://www.kansascity.com/449/story/510802.html

[tabasco]

179. Clinton campaign in particular had warned of a lawsuit.

"But the sources made it clear that the Clinton campaign in particular had warned of an impending lawsuit."

[rodeodance]

184. from someone not authorized to speak. get a grip. Neither camp wants a suit before march 4

[rodeodance]

182. Here--read this before you make yourself look more foolish:

"Spokesmen for both campaigns said there were no plans to sue ahead of the March 4 election."
http://www.kansascity.com/449/story/510802.html
"Glory Days"

[stop the bleeding]

180. FUCKING APPALLING

I do not care who the article is in favor of, but to even think that a lawsuit could/would stand in the way of laws and the will of the people is APPALLING.

I spit on this idea - fucking bs

edit for typo

[rodeodance]

185. Fricking APPALING THAT YOU CAN NOT READ!=see this:

"Spokesmen for both campaigns said there were no plans to sue ahead of the March 4 election."
http://www.kansascity.com/449/story/510802.html

[stillcool]

197. uh-oh

Clinton campaign aides have argued that caucuses favor Obama, whose campaign organization has turned out overwhelming numbers at caucuses in other states.

Democrats have described the enthusiasm in Texas, as evidenced by the record turnout among early voters in the most populous counties, as a sign that the party is undergoing a revival after years of decline under virtually unchallenged Republican rule.

"If it is true that litigation is imminent between one or both of your campaigns and the (Democratic Party), such action could prove to be a tragedy for a reinvigorated democratic process that is involving a record number of participants here in Texas and across the nation,'' Dunn, the state party lawyer, wrote.

http://graphics.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/politics/20080112_nevada_lawsuit.pdf
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/17/a-feisty-bill-clinton-defends-nevada-lawsuit/
CLINTON ALLIES SUPPRESS THE VOTE IN NEVADA...
On Meet the Press on Sunday, Hillary Clinton said her campaign had nothing to do with a lawsuit--written about by Nation Editor Katrina vanden Heuvel--that threatens to prevent thousands of workers from voting in the Nevada caucus on Saturday.
Back in March, the Nevada Democratic Party agreed to set up caucus locations on the Vegas strip for low-income shift workers, many of them members of the state's influential Culinary Union, who commute long distances to work and wouldn't be able to get home in time to caucus. It was an uncontroversial idea until the Culinary Union endorsed Barack Obama and the Nevada State Education Association, whose top officials support Clinton, sued to shut down the caucus sites.
The Clinton camp played dumb until yesterday, when President Clinton came out in favor of the lawsuit.
Clinton's comments drew a heated response from D. Taylor, the head of Nevada's Culinary Union, on MSNBC's Hardball. "He is in support of disenfranchising thousands upon thousands of workers, not even just our members," Taylor said of Clinton. "The teachers union is just being used here. We understand that This is the Clinton campaign. They tried to disenfranchise students in Iowa. Now they're trying to disenfranchise people here in Nevada, who are union members and people of color and women."
Rank-and-file members of Nevada's teachers union also come out against the lawsuit filed by their leadership. "We never thought our union and Senator Clinton would put politics ahead of what's right for our students, but that's exactly what they're doing," the letter stated. "As teachers, and proud Democrats, we hope they will drop this undemocratic lawsuit and help all Nevadans caucus, no matter which candidate they support."
The lawsuit's opponents make a persuasive point. Creating obstacles to voting is what the GOP does to Democrats, not what Democrats should be doing to other Democrats.

[Tarc]

183. Good, any effort undertaken to undercut the inherently undemocratic caucus system

is a good thing.

[sloppyjoe25s]

186. More of "Anything to Win"

Gotta love every attempt to circumvent the rules & damage the party.

She is really endangering her political future - she needs to watch out.

[CaliforniaDreaming]

192. It's absolutely true. I've seen the memo on Daily Kos...

The goal is to delay the announcement of the results long enough so that HRC can claim victory with the popular vote (if she gets it).

Never mind the fact that Obama will net at least 11 more delegates from the primary and caucus.

I am just digusted with the maneuverings of this campaign. First Nevada, now this. My bet is that this will totally backfire and blow up in their faces.

[quantass]

194. Wouldn't this HURT Hilary and drop her #'s -- I know if i'm Texan i'd be pissed and vote Obama

[jamesinca]

195. agree to the rules?

What is wrong with them? They agree to how a state party runs its nomination process then the state party is supposed to change to fit the whim of the one with the biggest mouth? I think if they are having problems understanding how a state does its process, maybe they should sit and figure it out, talk with the state party and actually act like they care instead of making veiled threats about law suits. If the state party explains it till the cows understand it, maybe the candidate not getting it is to stupid to be president (that would be hard considering the standard that the current one has set). If the state parties are not explaining it, then maybe the candidate needs to ask Chairman Dean to step in and get an explanation from them. Instead it sounds like they are being selfish children that will destroy the party if they can not win the nomination. No I don't read the whole article, just the posted part, I was to irritated to continue with it.

It truly is silly season!!

[stillcool]

196. Again?

Damn.

http://graphics.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/politics/20080112_nevada_lawsuit.pdf
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/17/a-feisty-bill-clinton-defends-nevada-lawsuit/
CLINTON ALLIES SUPPRESS THE VOTE IN NEVADA...
On Meet the Press on Sunday, Hillary Clinton said her campaign had nothing to do with a lawsuit--written about by Nation Editor Katrina vanden Heuvel--that threatens to prevent thousands of workers from voting in the Nevada caucus on Saturday.
Back in March, the Nevada Democratic Party agreed to set up caucus locations on the Vegas strip for low-income shift workers, many of them members of the state's influential Culinary Union, who commute long distances to work and wouldn't be able to get home in time to caucus. It was an uncontroversial idea until the Culinary Union endorsed Barack Obama and the Nevada State Education Association, whose top officials support Clinton, sued to shut down the caucus sites.
The Clinton camp played dumb until yesterday, when President Clinton came out in favor of the lawsuit.
Clinton's comments drew a heated response from D. Taylor, the head of Nevada's Culinary Union, on MSNBC's Hardball. "He is in support of disenfranchising thousands upon thousands of workers, not even just our members," Taylor said of Clinton. "The teachers union is just being used here. We understand that This is the Clinton campaign. They tried to disenfranchise students in Iowa. Now they're trying to disenfranchise people here in Nevada, who are union members and people of color and women."
Rank-and-file members of Nevada's teachers union also come out against the lawsuit filed by their leadership. "We never thought our union and Senator Clinton would put politics ahead of what's right for our students, but that's exactly what they're doing," the letter stated. "As teachers, and proud Democrats, we hope they will drop this undemocratic lawsuit and help all Nevadans caucus, no matter which candidate they support."
The lawsuit's opponents make a persuasive point. Creating obstacles to voting is what the GOP does to Democrats, not what Democrats should be doing to other Democrats.

Debate over location of Nevada caucus in court
Thursday, January 17, 2008
http://www.sunjournal.com/story/247770-3/National/Debate_over_location_of_Nevada_caucus_in_court/
LAS VEGAS (AP) - A last-minute federal court battle over caucus rules demonstrates just how important a tight three-way Democratic presidential contest in Nevada has become in the battle for momentum headed into Super Tuesday's votes.
At issue in a federal court hearing Thursday is whether Democratic caucuses will be held in nine casinos along the Las Vegas Strip. The special locations were designed to make it easier for housekeepers, waitresses and bellhops in the state's biggest industry to caucus at midday near their jobs rather than returning home to neighborhood precincts.
The rules were unanimously approved by the state Democratic party last March and ratified by the Democratic National Committee in August.But last Friday, six Democrats and a teachers union, which has ties to the Clinton campaign, sued to shut the sites on grounds they allocate too many delegates to one group. Of roughly 10,000 delegates to Nevada's presidential nominating convention, more than 700 could be
selected at casino caucuses, depending upon turnout, which could make them more valuable than some sparsely populated Nevada counties, the lawsuit said. Four plaintiffs are on the committee that approved the sites.
The DNC petitioned to join the suit on behalf of the state party Tuesday.
-------------------------------------------------------
By Monday, Bill Clinton was defending the lawsuit. "I think the rules ought to be the same for everybody," the former president told high school students near Las Vegas. The Culinary Union circulated a less subtle message on fliers to members: "Backers of Hillary Clinton are suing in court to take away our right to vote in the caucus." It's airing the same message in Spanish-langauge radio ads.

[Raejeanowl]

198. Cut It Out!

Can everyone just get a grip and not go flying off into another wave of speculation?

Until and unless someone actually files a lawsuit/makes a formal challenge, this is a non-story.

[rodeodance]

200. "Spokesmen for both campaigns said there were no plans to sue ahead of the March 4 election."

"Spokesmen for both campaigns said there were no plans to sue ahead of the March 4 election."
http://www.kansascity.com/449/story/510802.html

[ElsewheresDaughter]

201. And Obama Sued to Win His First Election...wipped out 4 opponents and ran unopposed

[stillcool]

203. I thought he challenged signatures...

on petitions? Is questioning the veracity of signatures the same thing as suing the State Democratic Party because you don't like the rules, you've already agreed to?

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-070403obama-ballot,1,57567.storyThen Palmer's congressional bid collapsed. On Nov. 28, 1995, she placed a distant third behind political powerhouses Jesse Jackson Jr., who holds that congressional seat today, and current state Senate President Emil Jones Jr.

Palmer didn't fade quietly away. Citing an "outpouring" of support, she upended the political landscape by switching gears and deciding to run in the March 1996 primary for her state Senate seat.

But she had two big problems. To get on the ballot, Palmer needed to file nominating petitions signed by at least 757 district voters -- and the Dec. 18 deadline was just days away.
--------------------------------------------------
Just in time for the Dec. 18, 1995, filing deadline, Palmer submitted 1,580 signatures -- about twice the minimum required. That day, Obama lashed out at her, telling the Tribune she had pressured him to withdraw
------------------------------------------
Davis and Dobry marshaled volunteers and began poring through the nominating petitions of Palmer and the three lesser-known Democrats, according to interviews.

"We looked at those petitions and found that none of them met the requirements of the law," Dobry said. "Alice's people, they'd done it in a great hurry. Almost all her petitions were signed a day or so before the deadline."

According to Davis, Palmer "had kids gathering the names. I remember two of her circulators, Pookie and Squirt."

Davis and others urged Obama to file legal challenges.

Such tactics are legal and frequently used in Chicago. Ballot challenges eliminated 67 of the 245 declared aldermanic candidates in Chicago before this past February's elections, an election board spokesman said.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-070403obama-ballot,1,57567.story

http://graphics.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/politics/20080112_nevada_lawsuit.pdf
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/17/a-feisty-bill-clinton-defends-nevada-lawsuit/
CLINTON ALLIES SUPPRESS THE VOTE IN NEVADA...
On Meet the Press on Sunday, Hillary Clinton said her campaign had nothing to do with a lawsuit--written about by Nation Editor Katrina vanden Heuvel--that threatens to prevent thousands of workers from voting in the Nevada caucus on Saturday.
Back in March, the Nevada Democratic Party agreed to set up caucus locations on the Vegas strip for low-income shift workers, many of them members of the state's influential Culinary Union, who commute long distances to work and wouldn't be able to get home in time to caucus. It was an uncontroversial idea until the Culinary Union endorsed Barack Obama and the Nevada State Education Association, whose top officials support Clinton, sued to shut down the caucus sites.
The Clinton camp played dumb until yesterday, when President Clinton came out in favor of the lawsuit.
Clinton's comments drew a heated response from D. Taylor, the head of Nevada's Culinary Union, on MSNBC's Hardball. "He is in support of disenfranchising thousands upon thousands of workers, not even just our members," Taylor said of Clinton. "The teachers union is just being used here. We understand that This is the Clinton campaign. They tried to disenfranchise students in Iowa. Now they're trying to disenfranchise people here in Nevada, who are union members and people of color and women."
Rank-and-file members of Nevada's teachers union also come out against the lawsuit filed by their leadership. "We never thought our union and Senator Clinton would put politics ahead of what's right for our students, but that's exactly what they're doing," the letter stated. "As teachers, and proud Democrats, we hope they will drop this undemocratic lawsuit and help all Nevadans caucus, no matter which candidate they support."
The lawsuit's opponents make a persuasive point. Creating obstacles to voting is what the GOP does to Democrats, not what Democrats should be doing to other Democrats.

Debate over location of Nevada caucus in court
Thursday, January 17, 2008
http://www.sunjournal.com/story/247770-3/National/Debate_over_location_of_Nevada_caucus_in_court/
LAS VEGAS (AP) - A last-minute federal court battle over caucus rules demonstrates just how important a tight three-way Democratic presidential contest in Nevada has become in the battle for momentum headed into Super Tuesday's votes.
At issue in a federal court hearing Thursday is whether Democratic caucuses will be held in nine casinos along the Las Vegas Strip. The special locations were designed to make it easier for housekeepers, waitresses and bellhops in the state's biggest industry to caucus at midday near their jobs rather than returning home to neighborhood precincts.
The rules were unanimously approved by the state Democratic party last March and ratified by the Democratic National Committee in August.But last Friday, six Democrats and a teachers union, which has ties to the Clinton campaign, sued to shut the sites on grounds they allocate too many delegates to one group. Of roughly 10,000 delegates to Nevada's presidential nominating convention, more than 700 could be
selected at casino caucuses, depending upon turnout, which could make them more valuable than some sparsely populated Nevada counties, the lawsuit said. Four plaintiffs are on the committee that approved the sites.
The DNC petitioned to join the suit on behalf of the state party Tuesday.
-------------------------------------------------------
By Monday, Bill Clinton was defending the lawsuit. "I think the rules ought to be the same for everybody," the former president told high school students near Las Vegas. The Culinary Union circulated a less subtle message on fliers to members: "Backers of Hillary Clinton are suing in court to take away our right to vote in the caucus." It's airing the same message in Spanish-langauge radio ads.

[Imagevision]

202. Billary merely prolonging defeat, this defeat is a harsh blow to both Bill and Hil...Bill Clinton

had some serious prince-like plans for the next 8 years...

[zulchzulu]

204. Another sad chapter to the many sad chapters of the worse run presidential campaign ever

Hillaryworld's campaign is indeed unprecedented.

[TexasObserver]

205. Calling Van Helsing!!

Time to get this vampire of a campaign behind us. Her campaign is going out badly.