Ralph Nader truly sickens me - I can't stand to see him on TV now...

[sfam]

Yes, he did great things in another life - not this one. In this life, he's responsible for George Bush's war, and all the other crap done to our country over the last 7 years. The worst part of it is he simply will NEVER own up to his own complicity in the horror that's been foisted upon us. Once upon a time, there was no difference between Gore and Bush, but of course he doesn't acknowledge this now. He's right up there with Terrel Owens and Paris Hilton as one of the most narcissistic people in America.

I can't wait for next week to come, as his time on TV will diminish drastically. At this point, watching him sickens me to the point that I would rather watch a George Bush speech than a Nader interview. Am I alone here?

[MADem]

1. I hope the people who voted for him engage in some sort of public penance.

They should be ashamed of themselves....and they so smugly thought they were so fucking right voting for an asshole who couldn't win and who claimed there was NO DIFFERENCE between Al Gore and Little Boots Bush...

[sfam]

3. Great idea - would LOVE to see it...

especially those assholes in Florida. They REALLY need to do MANY hours of community service or something.

[John Q. Citizen]

2. Something has to be done to limit the domination of third parties. They have usurped the power

apparatus in this country for sure.

[Lefty-Taylor]

4. Hey, JQ, I know, third party politics are really hitting hard at the Big Two.

And they have every advantage in terms of money and media exposure. :>)
By the way, I'm voting for Obama but respect Ralph and all he's done and hope that someday we have a viable progressive Third Party in this nation. I despise the myopic thinking of some about 2000 and Nader. Gore ran a poor campaign and Bush stole the election. Nader only brought people into the fold.

OK now, DU-ers vilify me!

[Big Blue Marble]

7. I stand with you.

Ralph Nader is one of the finest Americans of our time. He was not the reason that Gore lost.
If Al Gore had won his own State of Tennessee, he would have had enough electoral votes to win the Presidency.
He mostly likely lost Tennessee due to the Clinton fatigue. Remember Clinton won Tennessee in 96, It should have
stayed blue with a favorite son.

Florida was lost for so many reasons starting with Jeb Bush and Katherine Harris.
Butterfly ballots and Pat Buchanan were part of the story, too.

To blame all this on Nader is beyond stupid and I am so tired of it.

[Lefty-Taylor]

11. You said it, B-Marble, "so tired." I've interviewed Nader twice for two different publications and

I found him smart, modest and creative. And I say this knowing that many DU-ers have lost sight of just what he's done and, frankly, continues to do for progressive causes. Remember, he backed Edwards because of JE's stance for the poor. (Again, I'm voting for Obama, though.)

[Big Blue Marble]

14. Me too Lefty.

I am a committed Obama supporter. I have strong respect for Nader and the contributions that he has made
for our country. He is one of the few people who has successfully stood against corporate power and won.
He changed all of our lives when he did that.

He has lived an acetic life. He has made many personal sacrifices for the good of our country and our people.
It is a tragedy that so many Democrats refuse to recognize that he is the best of what we as progressives stand
for.

You are fortunate to have had the privilege to interview him. Thank you for your personal insight into his character.

[Lefty-Taylor]

16. Yeah, it was a real privilege; the second time I interviewed him, I rode to the Portland airport

with him (with my tape recorder running) and talked to him about his Internet fund-raising, which Howard Dean emulated four years later in 2003-04 -- to great success until Corporate Media sabotaged Howard.

Thanks for your insight as well.

[BzaDem]

19. The blame should be placed squarely on Nader.

The idea that Nader is not at fault, because some others (such as Katherine Harris, Tennessee, SCOTUS, etc) were at fault is such a bad argument. Imagine if that were a defense in this country. I didn't do it, because these 3 others were involved too. If Katherine Harris were replaced before 2000, Gore may have won. If the SCOTUS decided Bush vs. Gore differently, Gore may have won. But if Nader didn't run, Gore absolutely positively would have won. The idea that Nader attracted more voters to the polls to vote for GORE (his other main argument) is rediculous too. If he didn't place his name on Florida's ballot, 4000 of our bravest would not have died in Bush's war, and we would not have 4 fundamentalists on the Supreme Court (and everything else Bush has done). To argue that all of that isn't true because others were also involved is misrepresenting the facts.

[Lefty-Taylor]

21. Now that's simplistic thinking -- first and foremost because you focus only on Florida.

There are so many other states where Gore just failed to win what should have been easy-for-any-Dem wins. But this is a tired discussion. Nader's done so much more to help our country than most office-holders; look at his record and compare it to anyone else's and you'd have to admit that's true (if you're being an honest progressive). I'll vote for Obama, hope he'll turn further left and NEVER vilify Nader but honor his achievements in making this a better nation.

[John Q. Citizen]

13. We can and need to implement a system where third parties can run without being

forced to be spoilers.

Fusion voting and instant run off are two such constitutionally acceptable voting schemes that would accomplish that.

Unfortunately the Big Two aren't much interested in greater democratic pluraism.

They have fixed the rules so third parties have to be spoilers, and then they whine about it when they are.

I too am voting Obama, and happily, but I do like Nader. I'm not even sure i'd like him to be president, I'm still a little pissed at him for how he didn't deliver for the Greens. But I love to hear his analysis.

[Catherine Vincent]

5. I can't stand his ugly face either. nt

[depakid]

6. Sorry, but the Democrats are responsible for Bush's war

and for FAILING to regulate the media and the financial sector in the 1990's -and FAILING to stand up to Bush- no matter how egregious his conduct and legislation- or how extreme his nominees were. Hell, filibustering, a sizable bunch went right along and voted straight up with the Republicans!

It was the Dems who cowered and voted for war -not Nader, who wouldn't even have had a constituency in 2000, except for Clinton's repeatedly lurching to the corporate right and enabling their policies.

[Big Blue Marble]

8. Outrage misplaced.

There are so many to blame for the war including Hillary Clinton. She voted for it. Ralph Nader spoke against it.
If you listen to his populism, it maps onto DK's. He wants a single payer system. He wants to stop corporate control
of government. He wants to save the over 300,000 lives that are being lost each year in this country due to
poor government oversite and excess corporate power.

Are you against these issues as well.

Viva Ralph Nader, a true liberal.

Edit to add: man, you have really lost perspective, if you would rather listen to * than Ralph.

And I do not think he will play any significant role in damaging an Obama Campaign.
I would hope that Obama will take him seriously enough to incorporate a few populist ideas.
I am sure that is what he really wants.

[sfam]

27. I disagree...leading up to the 2000 election, it was clear that...

Nader was going to make a difference in a close race. He really should have dropped out in the last few weeks. From an advocacy standpoint, his "message" had already been heard. By staying in, knowing that he might throw the thing to Bush, he served as an adjunct Bush Surrogate. He made statements saying that there was no difference between Bush and Gore.

Bottom line, he can try to spin it all he likes, but when it comes down to it, today Nader is nothing more than a Bush enabler - a stooge to help him get elected. This is why republicans contributed to Nader's 2000 and 2004 campaigns. Did Nader have a problem with this? Not at all, as the truth is its all about Him now.

[spag68]

9. Nader

I'm still pissed that he made GM stop making the Corvair. I had a new one in 1963, it was great in the Western Pa. winter and got 28 mpg. I'm sick of his crap, and even if it is true that he did not cause us to lose in 2000, he sure didn't help.

[Big Blue Marble]

12. Do you realize Nader is probably responsible

for saving more lives in this country in the last 50 years than anyone else alive.

His reforms brought safety to so many areas of our lives at work, at home, and in our cars.

Back when you lost your Corvair, 50K people died on our roads each year with half the population that
we have now. And tens of thousands more were badly injured.

Nader is truly one of the good guys.

[spag68]

17. IMHO

If that is true, and I'm not sure it is, maybe seat belts had something to do with it. I do respect some of what Nader did then, but now he just seems delusional.

[Big Blue Marble]

18. He was responsible for seat belts as well as other safety features.

If you listen to him, he sounds much like DK. A very populist message. A very anti-corporate pro people message.
He is an authentic liberal. You may like that; you may not. I do.

[sfam]

28. Are you including the lives lost in Iraq in that equation?

Just wondering, 'cause I'm guessing Gore wouldn't have invaded Iraq.

Again, Nader was a good guy back in the 60s and 70s. Today he competes for Paris Hilton as one of the most narcissistic Americans alive. Its all about Him now.

[Thrill]

10. Nader will ultimately be another attack dog against McCain

He will help not hurt

[Medusa]

15. i change the channel as soon as I see him

he sounds delusional

[pettypace]

20. I like Nader

[sfam]

25. Exactly!!! Bush-Cheney-Nader - stop the Dems!

That's what Nader stands for these days. Again, his safety advocacy occurred in another life as far as I'm concerned. Now its all about him.

[johnnydrama]

22. i would have much more respect for him

If he just didn't show up every 4 years and run for President.

What about change from the bottom? What about forming a party, and having people run for things in cities and states.

Showing up every 4 years does nothing for nobody.

[Beacool]

23. The man has the right to enter the race,

just as Bloomberg does if he so chooses. Plenty of countries have several candidates running in their elections and they seem to do just fine.




:shrug:

[sfam]

26. And I have the right to be sickened by him nt

[Cobalt-60]

24. He should stand down

I admired his dedication and frugality.
I like much of his message.
But the cost of allowing more fascist criminals into the white house
makes it necessary for me to vote for the Democratic Nominee, no matter who
it is.
The Democratic Party is my best weapon against the Republicans.
Republicans Raus is my personal theme for this election.
I'll turn on them like a rabid badger if i hear a single word about reconciliation with
Republicans later.
Self respect calls for maximum payback.