For anyone who thinks Hillary's "Xerox" comment will HELP her, you're as tone deaf as she is.

[jenmito]

Sorry, but last night, even after her FIRST comment about Obama's "plagiarism," when Obama's response drew applause from the audience, she stuck with it and went even MORE negative with her Xerox comment and got BOOED! People did NOT like it. Not ONE headline read anything like, "Hillary's Xerox comment a knockout punch." Don't you GET it? It was a dumb thing for her to say. I hope she keeps using it, but you can bet she won't.

[mkultra]

1. in every democracy, there will be loonies on both sides

I guess we are trying to purge ours.

[jenmito]

2. It's just so funny that I've seen comments by her supporters saying it was a GREAT line and that

her poll numbers will go UP as a result. :shrug:

[mkultra]

29. If everyone saw things the saw way

No one would disagree. I do think this is more than perspective though and maybe a little mental illness.

[L0oniX]

85. Hey ...I resemble that remark

[book_worm]

3. I agree.

She hurt herself with it. She did well in the debate overall, but what is it that everybody is talking about? her being booed with her xerox comment. Negative campaigining hurt her in Wisconsin and I doubt it will help her in Texas.

[jenmito]

9. Yup. It will NOT help her in TX. People clearly accept what Obama said about it...

and for her to keep going with it shows her bad judgement once again.

[bunnies]

4. It was a huge blunder.

I actually felt sorry for her after she said it. She really should have known better.

[Angela Shelley]

7. That´s the point "she really should have known better"

just like with the vote on Iraq.

[bunnies]

17. I absolutely agree.

If she actually had the game she boasts she has, she wouldnt be making such dumb mistakes. She comes across as so out of touch.

[Angela Shelley]

18. I have the same to say about GWB.

He has been the POTUS for 7 years, and he seems to not have learned anything over time.

Maybe they are "just too busy" making contacts with other power-hungry people.

[Whisp]

5. out of toner?

:waves:

That was a very sorry moment for her.
I think they are all too tired and frantic in that campaign, they are pulling such unbelievable boners. I almost feel sorry for them - but not quite.

[jenmito]

12. Good one!

Yes, she's out of toner! :D

[Deep13]

6. I have to think the remark was directed toward the >40 crowd.

I thought it was pretty funny.

[GarbagemanLB]

8. No, it was directed at everyone, and booed by everyone.

[Deep13]

21. I didn't boo. I was at home of course. nt

[Alexander]

60. Call her campaign and ask her to repeat it then. It's only helping Obama.

The more she says stupid stuff like this, the bigger Obama's landslides will be.

[scheming daemons]

10. It bombed for them too....

....it was Carvillian.... and people are tired of that crap.

[Colobo]

13. It didn't work.

[jenmito]

16. Not only was it NOT funny, it made her look mean. Not a good look for her. n/t

[Deep13]

19. Are you suggesting that there is some sort of universal yardstick for funny?

I laughed, therefore, it was funny.

[jenmito]

23. Nope. But you were clearly in the minority of people who thought it was a GOOD line. n/t

[Deep13]

25. I always am. nt

[jenmito]

28. Good thing you're not advising her. n/t

[Deep13]

38. I wish I were. I hear it's pretty lucrative.

And I could not possibly do a worse job that who she has. I'd let someone else write the jokes, to the extent that this race is anything to joke about.

And I'm a little sick of back-handed insults from know-it-all neophytes. You can make all the smart-ass remarks you want when O turns the economy around and gets us universal health care. Until then, be reminded that you and your candidate haven't proved anything yet.

[jenmito]

40. That was NOT a joke. It was a mean-spirited attack.

Who's a "know-it-all neophyte"? Obama has done things for his state of IL. He's been in public service for 20 years.

[Deep13]

52. It was accurate.

I have yet to hear what he has done for Illinois. I don't live there and have no real way of knowing. You'd think he would have mentioned it by now.

[Greyskye]

57. The info is out there if you bother to look

MSNBC just did hour long profiles of both Hillary and Obama. He's been working on behalf of the underprivileged in Illinois for his entire career, bypassing much more monetarily lucrative opportunities the whole time.

I'll make it easy for you - here is a link to both the transcript and the documentary.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23257295/

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts after you have a chance to read or watch this. :hi:

[jenmito]

63. No it wasn't. And if you have yet to hear what he's done for IL, you're not listening. n/t

[Greyskye]

91. So, have you looked yet?

You did indicate that you wanted to know...

:shrug:

[scheming daemons]

58. What has our candidate "proved" on universal health care?

That she can botch it so bad as to cause the Democrats to lose the congress for 12 years starting in '94?


Seriously... her botched attempt at universal health care brought us 12 years of GOP congressional rule.


That's what SHE proved.

[Cha]

108. Whomever advised her did her no favors as the UK Guardian

suggests..

<snips>

"Somewhere in the dark wilderness of Texas, a car door is being opened and the lifeless body of whoever wrote Hillary Clinton's attack lines is being dumped in a ditch. OK, that might be a little extreme, and even the Clinton campaign isn't that tough. But metaphorically at least I wouldn't be surprised, because in her self-described "must win" state of Texas, she murdered her lines while attempting to go after Barack Obama in last night's debate.

For those who came in late, this was about Obama borrowing a phrase from an ally, and not attributing it. It should have been a simple one-day sly dig, of the sort that campaigns toss around on an hourly basis. Last night Obama rightly dismissed it as silly. But the Clinton campaign wanted to make a meal of it - and in the middle of last night's debate, when the subject came up, Hillary pulled the trigger, saying: "Lifting whole passages from someone else's speeches is not change you can believe in, it's change you can Xerox."

At which point the crowd booed her - the only such display of the night. But instead of cutting her losses and leaving it, she ploughed on, and even told Obama to "look at the YouTube of these videos". Xerox? The YouTube of these videos? Anyone under the age of, oh, 30 would have found all of that amusing, reminiscent of Ted Stevens' "series of tubes". It smacked of both confection and confusion, a desperate hunt for a "Where's the beef?" moment.

It was reported yesterday that the Clinton campaign spent $1,300 on donuts last month. Maybe the speechwriters were hyperglycemic when they came up with that one."

<more>>>
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4710036

[mkultra]

34. i didnt think it was funny but whos to say

Who knows my mustard tastse good. Often though, people find diminishing humor funny because they wish hard or look down on the recipient. Perhaps that why you found it funny.

[mkultra]

30. well, she did say "the youtube"

I bet her VCR clock blinks 12:00 all day long.

[XemaSab]

53. I read this comment and I laughed

and then I read it again and laughed some more. :D

[mkultra]

109. Thanks, ill be here all week

Be sure to tip your waitress.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

11. Hillary has to choose...

Does she want to be President of the United States or does she want to be a Seventh Grade English Teacher?

The President of the United States has bigger things to worry about than some pissant question about whether Obama gave proper attribution to one of his sources. It's one thing for her surrogates to make this an issue, but another thing altogether for her to raise the issue as though it's a matter of national security.

[jenmito]

20. Good point.

I don't think she'll have to WORRY about being President for much longer. It seems like she's flailing all over the place, trying to figure out which persona people want to see instead of just being herself like Obama.

[godfather08]

14. Xerox end of Campaign

The Xerox comment was the end of Hillary's campaign. She knew it as soon as she said it.

[jenmito]

27. I agree...

She ended the debate strong (with "borrowed" lines) but the Xerox comment is getting most of the play today.

[jgraz]

78. Not exactly the knockout punch she was looking for

[Adelante]

15. Tone deaf is right on that

I have to say, though, the one that troubled me most, and is getting less play, was the heartless crack on the former Mayor of Austin and State Senator who was fried by Chris Matthews. Talk about tone deaf. I realize she meant it to hurt Obama, but considering the location of the debate, huh? Tone deaf, only more.

[jenmito]

31. That's true. It's not OBAMA who couldn't name anything. It was the poor guy who couldn't

and it was another low blow. She's mean and will be seen as mean.

[Tarc]

22. I love it. Obama can disparage Hillary's age and gender

with comments like "likable enough" or the "she's just upset" line, but she cannot comment on something that actually happened?

The Obama culties are a study in pathological hypocrisy.

[scheming daemons]

26. Obama got shredded, rightfully so, for the "likeable enough" line..

The difference is... 25X more people were watching last night.

[WinkyDink]

46. Where was he "shredded", in the MSM?

[TSIAS]

88. At the polls

Likely one of the reasons Clinton took New Hampshire.

[jenmito]

35. Um, no he can't. He got criticized for that. And if you think her comment was a good one, I'll bet

you she won't use it again!

[mkultra]

36. your interpretation of those comments

as disparaging is a huge stretch. perhaps your imagining insult. Does it happen to you in daily life?

[Alexander]

61. If you think those comments referred to age and gender, you're delusional.

Then again, you probably thought the Xerox line helped her, proving how delusional you are.

:rofl:

[yurbud]

24. she has a problem. If she switches to issues, she might offended corporate donors so...

personal attacks have to be in the foreground.

or more precisely, if she says anything substantive on issues that would win over voters, it will offend corporations.


If it doesn't offend corporations, it is either a bland platitude or it will hurt regular people.

[jenmito]

39. Well, then she's going to lose. And rightfully so.

:hi:

[RoadRage]

32. The comment was not well received - but add the "Plagerized" last comment

she made at the end of the night that is now being shown as lifted from Edwards & her husbands '92 run.. and I really think THAT was the Death Blow.

She made that one comment to be her "punch" for the night.. and then basically ended up punching herself in the face with her own hypocrisy.

Clinton's been the most destructive person to her own campaign so far.. Obama's just sat back, talked to voters and won their confidence.

[jenmito]

42. True...

but I don't know if she's the most destructive person to her own campaign. Bill is giving her a race for the money.

[AtomicKitten]

33. Anyone that tries to spin being booed is irretrievably tone deaf.

I'm beginning to think it's a kind of viral delusion, in fact. Ha, ha. Ironically many of the Clinton accusations of this nature end up really being a reflection of themselves.

[jenmito]

45. Exactly...

like candidate like supporters.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

37. tell it to this guy.....

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/video/122.aspx

[jenmito]

48. You think that guy would think it was a smart thing to say?

[krabigirl]

41. I don't think it will help her, but it's not the horrible thing everyone's making it out to be.

[jenmito]

49. She got BOOED! That doesn't happen very often.

[WinkyDink]

43. For the first time in my adult life, I was really..... stunned by an HRC gaffe.

Heh.

[AlertLurker]

44. I think that you are right, but I also think that the comment was "spot on."

Obama's full of shit, period. He's got nothing - NOT.A.THING. - that he didn't steal or simply bastardise from someone else. Hillary has peobably lifted a few good ideas from Bill and other candidates, but she didn't steal her entire campaign, the way Obama did.

Still, as you say - it didn't seem to help her much in the debate. Perhaps if she can expand on the comment - "The Xerox Candidate" - and talk more about how his entire candidacy is fake and stolen from others, perhaps she might get a little more traction.

I doubt it, however, seeing as how so many people were stupid enough to buy into Obama's stolen bullshit in the first place.

O-baaaaaaa-ma.

[jenmito]

50. So you think Obama "stole" his entire campaign??? From whom, Bill Clinton who "still believe in a

place called 'Hope'"? :eyes: He proved again last night that he has just as many detailed positions as Hillary. Being an inspirational, uniting figure just adds to it.

[AlertLurker]

55. Mostly From Dennis Kucinich:

Bear in mind, every time you see the word "(Response)" during this speech, what you hear from the WHOLE audience is "YES WE CAN!"


"We are the party of Lyndon Johnson and the Great Society. We are the party of John F. Kennedy and the New Frontier. We are the party of FDR and the New Deal. We are the party of the people. We are the party whose president faced a broken nation--a nation of people without jobs, without homes, without health care, without retirement security--and he exhorted our people to have courage. Seventy years ago, FDR stood before a fearful nation and said, We have nothing to fear but fear itself. And he ignited a nation to reaching its promise and that brought almost a hundred new Democrats into the House. It enabled a sweeping mandate to bring deep, transformational change to our social, our political, and our economic structures.

It remade a government of the people and for the people. That kind of change is needed today. We can empower a new beginning.

Democrats, I remind you that we have nothing to fear but fear itself. We need a new faith in America and in ourselves. Faith that we can change the present condition; faith that we can change the outcome; faith that we can regain the confidence, the optimism, the whole world has identified with America; faith that it is the Democratic party that can once again lead the way to a better day, to a better America, to a better world.

Democrats, Democrats can move this country forward from a condition where of 8 million people out of work to a full employment economy with a living wage for all. If you believe our party can do that, let us tell this nation yes we can. (scattered response "Yes we can.").

...

Democrats can move this country forward from 40 million people without health insurance to a single payer system which provides quality health care for all. Do you believe we can do that? (Response).

Yes we can. Si se puede.

Democrats can move this country forward from underfunded schools, underpaid teachers, and undereducated youths to making education our top funding priority and providing free college education for all. Do you believe we can do that? (Response).

Democrats can move this country forward from a condition where our air, our water and our land is now being ruined
by multinational corporate interests; where we can demonstrate that environmental protection is our path to sustaining the life of the planet. Do you believe we can do this as a party? (Response).

Yes we can. Si se puede.


---------------------------------------------
http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2004/dnc0203/kucin022203spt.html
Rep.11:46 AM 2/22/2008 Dennis J. Kucinich
Democratic National Committee Winter Meeting
Washington, DC
February 22, 2003



Ya - Obama's an "inspiration, all right. He's the new "green candidate" - his entire campaign is recycled.

:eyes:

[jenmito]

62. So when he answers questions, he's not using his own positions and words? n/t

`

[AlertLurker]

67. If none of "his" positions or words are actually "his," how can he?

[jenmito]

69. His positions on the issues are his positions on the issues. Simple. n/t

[AlertLurker]

72. "Simple" is RIGHT!

You sound like "the little guy from Shawinigan:"

"A proof is a proof. What kind of a proof? It's a proof. A proof is a proof. And when you have a good proof, it's because it's proven."
-- Jean Chretien

:rofl:

[jenmito]

73. You obviously don't get it. His positions are HIS positions. No matter HOW many lines he uses from

his buddy, those ARE just words. They speak of what HE will do, though. He WILL get things accomplished with the majority of people on his side.

[AlertLurker]

77. I get it, I get it. I actually do. I don't agree, but I DO get it.

Your "His positions on the issues are his positions on the issues," just reminded me of our old PM, that's all.

[blues90]

47. I hope Obama wins , I really do and I'll tell you why

Because if Hillary wins then there will be none stop bashing with Bill brought through the mud all over again .

But more than that , Obama will now after all the rage and raving will have to pull something really big off and all who joined the ranks of hope and change will also be held accountable if he can't affect the change he promises .

It will then be fully in the hands of the youth where it should be finally . Then you will learn how everything is corrupt and controlled and that any president is nothing more than a figure head and it does not matter who the president is , never did . Few have done much , very few and what they did do was soon broken down to dust .

The world is now fully globalized , the economy is global and there is no going back now .

The word change is not descriptive enough to define what needs to be done now . People across the globe all have to change and this must come from the people not any government can do this .

[jenmito]

51. I agree...

And of course Obama will have to follow through with his rhetoric. And I think he will. The face he'll put on this country will change our country for the better. So will his willingness to negotiate with our enemies. I hope/think he will get the chance.

[blues90]

54. It's not Obama or any president who will make this change

Look through history , everything through the years really has not changed especially for the better . It was not just bush who screwed things up , if it were not for people and corporations things would never have become so screwed up . It is the willingness and ignorance of the people who bring these horrors to reality .

There are powers far beyond the president who control things and this is where people have to begin to effect change .

We have wars breaking out all across the globe and americas standing is gone as the leader of peace , it's far beyond this now .

The only reason many countries are called our allies is because the US funds them , a new face will not change this .

[jenmito]

65. The president CAN affect change. He can change foreigners' opinions of America. Have you

seen the enthusiasm by other countries who are so excited about the prospect of Obama being our president?

[blues90]

70. whatever gets you through the night

[jenmito]

71. Whatever makes you feel better to say

[blues90]

76. What's left to say ? You are fully convinced there is a new

sort of grand form of change ready to sweep all the wrongs into beams of sunshine as if this will happen anytime soon if ever .

There is a massive chain affect that has to change world wide that no one person can do .

It's fine to have hope , if it were only this easy .

I have been around a long time and so far no one has been able even with more ability and much less in the way of world wide issues to deal with yet we are no further now than then .

We still have poor and homeless , we still have racism and sexism and bombs and war , we have even more added to the poor list and far less in the way of jobs and our dollar has never been worth less that I know of . The population has increased ten fold or more and everything else has been cut in programs and everything else has risen in cost .

There is another year left of bush and many more will fall victim to despair before there is even a start for change .

[jenmito]

81. Please don't put words in my mouth. I never said Obama could cause

"a sort of grand form of change ready to sweep all the wrongs into beams of sunshine." But I DO think he'd make the world see us in a very different and better light. Have you listened to him EVER? He constantly talks about what he thinks hope is. And it's NOT easy.

[blues90]

86. Of course I've listened to him , you can't avoid it

I listened and I have heard it all before in different times and through different generations . Hell people once thought Reagan was the man , the great communicator and many still do .

They thought JFK was as well and he is now dead and we will never know the truth .

We will never know the truth about 9/11 and when we are not allowed the truth then we will never move forward with hope other than to be assured we will be fed more lies .

No one can put words in anyones mouth that is a old age insane false hood .

You leave an impression that you feel One person is the answer to everything and nothing could be further from the truth . I did say impression .

There are still the congress and senate with many positions to be filled and no one has a clue how this will turn out and won't until it's all said and done .

Many thought that 2006 was the most important election of the century and look how well this turned out . The main reason was they were voted in to end the occupation of Iraq and what happened , it's been funded none stop , the brought on their surge and the killing remains to this day . Bush has gotten his power grabs and a year left to use them if the right situation should arise .

People can speculate all they want , all there is now are the facts we know about which is actually very little in the grand scheme of things .

It's one step at a time and as you can see things change day to day that no one speculated on and got right yet .

[jenmito]

92. In 2006 we didn't really get a majority in the Senate with Lieberman there, and with a

fear-mongering president who was STILL able to scare enough people into believing if congress cut off funding or didn't allow warrantless wiretaps, "the terrorists would win." In '08 the Dems. will get a large majority along with the Dem. president (Obama) and he WILL be able to affect change.

[blues90]

98. it wasn't the people bush scared

It was the dem party who allowed the repubs to push . The dems did not have to allow this . Who know what their real reasons are , this is something no one but they know .

It's the same with impeachment being off the table , we don;t have a clear idea why this is either .

There has been alot of speculation out there about all of this but no answers .

All I do know is we will have to go through another year of bush and then see who gets what seat in 2009 if we get that far without incident .

In the mean time people will lose their homes and jobs and insurance , prices will continue to rise and Iraq will remain in chaos as well as most of the ME . NOLA victims will still be in toxic FEMA trailers as will many of the resent tornado survivors .

Who ever becomes president will have to stand in the tracks and try to stop this runaway freight train .

[jenmito]

103. The Dems. were scared that Bush's scare tactics would work IF there were to be another attack-

Bush would blame the Dems., and the CIA, generals, etc., would back him up. We need a new president to get us on the right track.

[blues90]

104. I don't believe that for a second ,

That's what the media wants people to buy . The Iraq occupation is wrong and the dems know it . It's deeper than that . If anything the Dems are afraid of losing their seat for their own personal reasons as weak as many of them are .

[jenmito]

107. Well, Obama sponsored the "Iraq De-escalation Act."

But he's only one Senator.

[Medusa]

56. It would be interesting to see an age-breakdown on this

my guess is that people of a certain age "got it" and those younger did not. Almost perfectly matches up with Hillary's base: people over 50, esp. women over 50.

[scheming daemons]

59. I don't know about women over 50... but by 41-yr-old wife cringed and said...

..."oh God, Hillary. That was horrible!"

[Greyskye]

64. This 46 year old guy 'got it'

I got that it was a cheap attempt at a laugh line, and failed miserably. It was awkward, forced, pretty obviously not of her own making, and it simply fell flat.

People 'got it' all right. They got that it was a lame, cheap shot.

If Hillary hadn't hit a home run with her final answer, it would have been her Waterloo moment. IMHO.

[Qutzupalotl]

90. Not of her own making. Exactly.

And she's criticizing him for using someone else's words?!

I think HRC has an irony deficiency.

[jenmito]

66. I think EVERYONE "got it." They just didn't LIKE it. Is was cheap, mean, and FALSE. n/t

[kwassa]

74. but Obama really needs to stop with the collagen shots in his cheeks

Ms. Expert

:rofl:

[jenmito]

75. Hillary's collagen was very obvious yesterday at certain angles. She has those same

little lumps above her cheeks/under her eyes that Kerry had.

[jillan]

83. Do you have a problem with people over 50?

I hope not, because chances are good that you will be over 50 one day.

[Fox Mulder]

68. Agreed.

[Catherine Vincent]

79. The only one it will help is the Xerox corporation.

Other than that, today is a new day. No one is talking about it. Well, except some of you Obama supporters. :eyes:

[Rosa Luxemburg]

95. A free Xerox commercial

did they donate?

[babsbunny]

80. I guess I'm having a "blonde moment" but.......

What does the Xerox comment mean?

[jenmito]

84. She referred to Obama's "plagiarized" words as meaning Obama's campaign isn't about

"change you can believe in but change you can xerox."

[jillan]

82. I agree - it was an unfortunate comment.

[cbayer]

87. Oh, goody! A Clinton Bake.

Don't forget to clean up after yourselves when you are done.

[citizen snips]

89. I hate to ruin the party but...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1094742133212157865

[jenmito]

93. You ARE as tone deaf as Hillary. n/t

[citizen snips]

94. Obama is such a good influence on college students.

plagiarize and you might get somewhere.

[jenmito]

97. HE DIDN'T PLAGIARIZE. And the audience agreed. I'm sure the reaction of the audience

reflected the reaction of the majority of Dems.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

96. ~.~.~.~.

[knixphan]

99. doom and gloom

...have no place in the human heart.

If the fight is drained out of you, then fill it back up. Barack is practically giving it away for free. I'd rather DIE fighting for 'the way things should be', no matter how idealistic - than die with my miserable, jaded, hopeless head in the sand, as the rest of me is raped by the corporatist rightwing.

I'll take words that stir me to action any day, over words that convince me to just accept my plight.

I'd rather be the slave who gets shot trying to escape than the one who dies of old age in his chains.

SI SE PUEDE CAMBIAR.

It's a good way to live.

[jenmito]

101. Great post!

And welcome to the DU! :hi:

[Hieronymus]

100. Most of the audience wouldn't have know what a Xerox was ....

or who Barbara Jordan was. Hillary's campaign is run by an old crowd. Even their "young" musical ad was pitiful.

[jenmito]

102. Did you hear that on Hardball?

They said all that, and I agree. :hi:

[mudesi]

105. VIDEO for the Clinton revisionists

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x96397

[jenmito]

106. Thanks for the video, but I'm sure they heard the boos. I saw one person say those were from Obama

supporters. :eyes: