Hillary Clinton wants to be a "tough president" -- Obama wants to make "politics cool again"

[bigtree]

--Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-N.Y., speaks during a campaign stop at the Wisconsin Democratic Party's Founders Day dinner


Feb. 16 (Bloomberg) -- Presidential hopeful Hillary Clinton told Wisconsin Democrats that she, not rival Barack Obama, is the candidate of change who will most effectively fight Washington special interests and chart a new course for the U.S.

"The choice is really whether we are going to have a fighter, doer, a champion again in the White House,'' New York Senator Clinton said at a Wisconsin Democratic Party dinner in Milwaukee. "I know some people have said that I am tough. You know what? We need a tough president.''

Clinton took aim at Obama, who also spoke at the event. She said she's the best one to go "toe-to-toe'' with Arizona Senator John McCain, the likely Republican nominee, and repeated her claim that Obama is a good orator, though doesn't equal her in the experience and drive needed to win the White House and lead the country.

Along with Wisconsin, Obama and Clinton are gearing up for nominating contests in Ohio, Texas and Pennsylvania. Obama is working to build on momentum after eight straight wins while Clinton is seeking to regain footing. Wisconsin holds its primary Feb. 19.

Obama countered Clinton by stressing the importance of inspiring citizens and "making politics cool again . . .''

article: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=ay5xBprU5.g8&refer=worldwide

[GarbagemanLB]

1. I guess we'll see when Obama wins the election how it turns out.

[bigtree]

2. oh, so subtle, so cool, so smug

so arrogant.

[Bluebear]

3. ...

:spray:

You hit the nail on the head, subtlety is not their strong suit is it?

[GarbagemanLB]

5. Nah. Arrogance is expecting the Democratic nomination crown to be placed on your head and

not expecting a fighter like Obama challenging you, catching you completely off-guard.

[bigtree]

10. the arrogance is in the calls by Obama supporters for Sen. Clinton to pack it in

before the voters of Ohio, Texas, Pennsylvania, and others have weighed in. It's these folks who are demanding some sort of coronation, even though he'll never achieve the number of delegates needed to nominate on votes cast alone.

[Orsino]

68. I know where they learned it. Back in the first months of the campaign, wasn't it?

Jesus Christ, folks. Confident predictions that anyone's favorite candidate will win are not a threat to anyone. Learn to let 'em pass. And for pete's sake, all the broad-brushing of various supporters sounds petty and paranoid.

[Maribelle]

14. Obama deserves no credit for ....

the too cute for words Kennedy/Kerry undercover operation behind Obama.

Sorry, but it is arguable that Obama and his wife would be big fat zeroes without this undercover operation that tried to hide from Hillary for the better part of perhaps a year.

However, Obama is ultimately responsible for this old-fashioned dirty politics at its worst, as he was the one that has allowed himself to be the Kennedy puppet.

[Alexander]

61. "Undercover operation"? Are you wearing an entire suit of tinfoil?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Tellurian]

85. Only the novice supporters would believe Kennedy & Kerry decided at the last minute

to endorse Obama. So, far their support has done little to overwhelm Hillary!

[Donnachaidh]

56. a fighter? Obama? WHERE?

All we're seeing is his "ascent into Heaven" on the backs of naive bama - heads. With the blessing of Saint Oprah, the patron Saint of Billionaires with Book Clubs.

He's got NO record of anything even resembling an ability to FIGHT. NOTHING at all. In fact -- HE'S the one who wants to *sit at a table* with the very same puke sharks who've destroyed the country.

Good luck with THAT *fight*. :rofl:

[Tellurian]

86. Absolutely..Obama reminds me of Erkel!

:rofl:

[Donnachaidh]

54. thwt's what thinking voters are AFRAID of.

The Repuke Chorus is just salivating thinking of how they are going to turn *COOL DUDE* into a LAME DUCK right out of the chute.

[VotesForWomen]

83. you probably voted for the captain of the football team for class president, didn't you? nt

[BeyondGeography]

4. That means inspiring kids to make choices like he did when he got out of school

instead of heading straight to Wall Street.

Gotta problem with that?

[bigtree]

6. that's his hook, questioning the integrity of anyone who questions his ability

to get any of these things done by pulling his punches as he's promising.

[KittyWampus]

8. and your hook is butchering Obama quotes to make his statements sound trite. LOL!

won't be kicking this pathetic thread again, so you're welcome to the last word.

[BeyondGeography]

9. That was almost a coherent thought there, bigtree

"A" for effort, though.

[bigtree]

13. right, because no one cares about 'HOPE' or 'INSPIRATION' like Obama

It's like he's just discovered these things he's railing against and expects that everyone else is ignorant about them. Like the way he repeated the line from MLK's "Dream" speech, as if there was ANYONE in the room who actually disagreed with that sentiment. It's an interesting tactic, but it just makes him look lame, in my judgment, when he rails against these strawmen.

[Iceburg]

59. You do know his wife went into corporate law ...

and has reapted thousands of dollars from corporations like Tree House Foods (whose main client is Walmart).

[bigtree]

60. of course that's just a shorthand attack. Incomplete and biased

just a portion of her history:

"In 1972, I returned to D.C. to work for Marian Wright Edelman. My assignment was to gather information about the Nixon Administration's failure to enforce the legal ban on granting tax-exempt status to the private segregated academies that had sprung up in the South to avoid integrated public schools. The academies claimed they were created in response to parents deciding to form private schools; it had nothing to do with court-ordered integration. I went to Atlanta to meet with the lawyers and civil rights workers who were compiling evidence that proved the academies were created solely for the purpose of avoiding the constitutional mandate of the Supreme Court's decisions.

As part of my investigation, I drove to Alabama. At a local private school, I had an appointment to meet an administrator to discuss enrolling my imaginary child. I went through my role-playing, asking questions about the curriculum and makeup of the student body. I was assured that no black students would be enrolled."

"My first article, titled "Children Under the Law," was published in 1974 in the Harvard Educational Review. My views were shaped by what I had observed as a volunteer for Legal Services representing children in foster care & by my experiences at the Chil Study Center in Yale-New Haven Hospital. I advised doctors as they tried to ascertain whether a child should be put into the child welfare system. I come from a strong family and believe in a parent's presumptive right to raise his or her child as he or she sees fit. But at Yale-New Haven Hospital, I saw children whose parents beat and burned them; who left them alone for days in squalid apartments; who failed and refused to seek necessary medical care . . .

All it takes for voters is a click of their mouse to find the truth about her history and record.

[KittyWampus]

7. God forbid, politics gets messy by having voters INVOLVED. They need to shut up, Vote Clinton & let

her run things, with the slimmest of victory margins and a Democratic minority in Congress.

[babylonsister]

37. That seems to be what the OP suggests; just too damned bad, and

one of many reasons she hasn't convinced me. She's just not so inevitable after all, and that must hurt like hell.

[bigtree]

65. how arrogant to taunt Clinton supporters about some statement someone made about 'inevitability'

classless.

[lligrd]

11. * Was A "Tough" President

I've had enough of the cowboy mentality.

[bigtree]

16. as if that 'cowboy mentality' defines ANY of the Democrats' approaches in the past.

Until Obama came around and reinvented politics, that used to be the term we used for Bush, NOT used to describe dedicated Democrats fighting for OUR agenda against republican obstruction.

[lligrd]

17. "Until Obama Came Around And Reinvented Politics"

And you think that is a bad thing?

[bigtree]

20. I don't think he's 're-invented anything at all. He's promising comity with obstructionists

. . . it's been done. It's called Centrism.

[lligrd]

24. But You Did Say It

And Hillary doesn't promise comity? What has she been doing all of this time? :rofl:

[bigtree]

26. little laughing cartoon! That's what I forgot. Sarcasm has to be labeled here with a little cartoon

that says :sarcasm: cute.

[mkultra]

12. she was against seating the delegates before she was for it

She has great integrity.

[bigtree]

15. Watch your own candidate's attitude toward the superdelegates dance around

with events at the end, and then talk to me about integrity.

[mkultra]

21. ill take proven dishonesty over the prediction of such

thx for playing. you can sound sane letter if he actually does change his signed and pledged position on it.


Until then, im right and your wrong. how does that feel?

[bigtree]

28. yep, it's a tricky thing waiting for a politician to do something opportunistically political

and hypocritical. Almost never happens.

[tularetom]

18. Yeah she's so "tough" she voted for the IWR so the repubs

wouldn't say she was "soft on terror". Cosponsored a flag burning amendment because she wanted to impress the right wing idiots (didn't work by the way).

There is nothing at all tough about this woman when it comes to standing up to republicans. She and her husband are scared to death of them and they will not run a negative campaign in the general election against McCain. They have bought into the MSM spin that Dems are pussies who won't fight back and that is what has caused them to "misunderestimate" Obama.

[bigtree]

25. Obama's promising up front that he'll pull his punches when he rags on fighting for what we need

Is he just saying this to belittle Clinton or does he really mean that there was something wrong with the aggressive defense of our Democratic agenda most folks in our party waged in the past, and are waging today? He never spells out who and where this aggression against the actions of republicans was wrong. he just promises to unify and coalesce with the same pack of warmongers and obstructionists who are intent on sacrificing our lives and destroying our planet for their financial gain. I think he's either bullshitting or ignorant about what his options are in this fight. And, it is a fight. He can either stand and fight, like Clinton promises, or he can follow through on his promise to reach out and touch republicans and expect for them to just hand over power because he's 'inspiring them' . . .

[Straight Shooter]

19. So Kerry didn't get elected because he wasn't "cool" enough?

All these people weren't willing to go out and fight to make Kerry president, to get an overwhelming majority to deflect the election tampering. Kerry could have actually done something to end the war and stop the slide of extremism, but that wasn't good enough for the country back then. Along comes Mr. Cool with his very nice clothes and his silver-tongued rhetoric, and people are falling all over themselves to vote for him.

Kerry being president would have stopped maybe another thousand American deaths and thousands of Iraqi deaths, needless to mention the injuries and the financial toll the war has taken on this country, and his presidency could have calmed the tension in the Middle East. But obama supporters insist that all the carnage and destruction is Hillary's fault.

All I've got to say to them is, where were you when we needed you?

[PurityOfEssence]

22. I want to barf

Anyone else care to chime in?

[Tennessee Gal]

23. These times require a tough President.

[bigtree]

30. Amen

[bridgit]

27. Obama to make "politics cool again"...dammit! I knew I should have kept...

my Smokey Robinson vinyl :cry:

A 60yr caller on the Randi show the other day had it exactly right after all, maybe cause he is old enough to have seen both sides of the same coin.

Obama is 'the cool guy' candidate. And Clinton is 'the policy/get it through congress' candidate. Leaving Obama = JFK to grip/grin & do The Neo-Camelot Thing with children running round on the sofas in the oval office from within flowing robes of Oprah and light. While Clinton = LBJ to button hole people up close & personal in the halls of power where legislation is more likely to shaped & passed.

I'm less than convinced DU understands how much we need both.

[bigtree]

29. I don't need 'cool'. And, I'm not sure I find Obama cool

Who's really cool who says they're cool?

[Straight Shooter]

32. Ironic, isn't it, because "cool" became extremely popular as slang in the '60s.

Some people just have a knack for self-parody.

Maybe next he'll talk about how "groovy" it would be to get elected. Yeah, far out.

[mkultra]

81. anyone who says this

Is not listening. Obama isnt cool, Its cool that he says the things that alot of us think needs ot be said. I know that alot of things seem tough to accomplish, and they may not all get done. But i think the things that do get done will be the important ones.

[Mz Pip]

31. That's not all Obama wants

but you already know that.

[bigtree]

33. right, he wants a Democratic majority

. . . but, he's promising potential republican voters that he'll "work with" their republican Senators and representatives. And, he's emphasizing that point by denouncing the "fighting" of the past which Democrats waged against republican obstruction. No need for republican voters to vote against their favorite republican obstructionists, if Obama's promising to sidle up to them and give them a platform, a reason for being.

[Mz Pip]

34. Perhaps he will listen to them

which is a whole lot more than BushCo has done with the Dems. And how has that worked out for the good of the country? LIke it or not, people of opposing views do have a right to be heard - unless you want to continue with the totalitarian posturing of the White House.

I'm not interested in going back to more of the same with new people in charge. I know it's tempting to want to slap them all around a bit and maybe we will do some of that, but I am sick of the poisonous atmosphere in Washington.

[bigtree]

35. I think it's unrealistic to expect republicans in Washington to change

. . . or to expect them to relinquish power willingly, without a fight.

[Mz Pip]

36. You may be right

but to draw a comparison to what Howard Dean said about his 50 state strategy: You have to give it a try, you have to ask people for their support. Maybe you won't get it but you sure won't get it without asking. And a funny thing happened; we won in 2006 in some of those never before considered states.

Maybe all of the Republicans won't work with us, but we won't know for sure without giving it a try. Maybe a few will become more reasonable, maybe not. I'd at least like to see an attempt made to change the tone. If it doesn't work, so be it, but at least we tried.

[bigtree]

40. we said that about the change from records to CDs, from VCRs to DVDs

. . . one scratch and they're done for.

My old vinyl record collection may have a few scratches they picked up in their lifetime, but the music still plays.

If his gentler approach doesn't work, will Obama know how to turn it back on?

[Mz Pip]

42. My sense if him

is yes. I don't see him as being easily intimidated. He does not seem to be easily rattled or distracted. He'll attempt to fulfill his campaign promise to change the tone in Washington but he also realizes that the other side has to meet him half way.

If they don't, he can play just as tough as anyone.

[bigtree]

44. that's what I'll be counting on, despite his rhetoric against Clinton's promised aggressiveness.

[babylonsister]

38. After that dinner last night, 4 CSPAN callers expressed their prez

preference. 1=ind., 2=rep., 1=dem. They ALL will be voting for Obama; one rethug said he's also volunteering to work for him. Sorry if that doesn't suit you, but I think it's great.

[bigtree]

41. they'll vote in a consequence-free (for them) contest, and, likely jump ship in the general

have they renounced their warmongering support for their pet republican in Congress? That's what Obama says this outreach is all about. A 'new' majority in Congress. How does he get these republicans who he's mollycoddling to vote a Democratic majority in when he's busy telling them he's prepared to "work with republicans," as if they will just stand still and let themselves be co-opted without a fight.

[babylonsister]

45. Yes, they did renounce McCain. They like Obama's message. nt

[bigtree]

48. Congress, not McCain. That's the goal Obama says is the target of his kid gloves treatment of repubs

Anyone can meddle in our open primaries, or declare early support for a candidate running against their nemesis, Hillary Clinton. But are they good for building the majority we need in Congress? Is Obama making the case for electing Democrats?

I think he's muffing the prospect by promising to work with their republican senators and representatives instead of denouncing the present pack of warmongers and corporatist lackeys for what they are. Republicans supporting him sense no major upheaval of their republican agenda, just a trimming by the centrist Obama.

It's so surprising to see DUers defending the moderate, centrist politics Obama's promising.

[babylonsister]

49. Well thank you for allowing me to defend who I want, bigtree.

The Dem party was considered the party of the big tent; maybe we need a bigger tent, but that's not a bad thing.

And I think * and his disastrous presidency has made the case for electing Dems.

[rodeodance]

39. I like the bottom photo--nice action photo of Hillary with the crowd.

[bigtree]

43. Her venues have been close and personal

Hers really comes across as a caring campaign,

[rodeodance]

47. yes, and yes. Her aim is not SWOOM

[Cameron27]

46. Oh brother,

cool? I'll stick with the fighter, thank you very much Mr. Hopey/Changey.

[Vinca]

50. If only she wasn't so . . . uncool.

She's this scolding, naggy, lecturing figure who reminds you of all the teachers you wanted to forget.

[bigtree]

51. that's some crap there. but, I suspect you know that.

In my view, the preachifying from Obama is withering and a bore. I already believe in and have been aware of the items he includes in his homilies. It's as if, though, he's just discovered these things and he preaches them to Democrats like he's the first person ever to voice these things, with his elevated sense of self-importance.

Hillary Clinton, on the other hand, has been engaging and personal in her campaigning, and not a bit condescending.

[RoadRage]

52. Yeah.. we have the TOUGHEST president of all right now. See how far that's gotten us...

:eyes:

Tough does NOT equal good. Tough does not mean getting things done. Tough means "My way or the High Way".. and Tough means 4 - 8 more years of gridlock, special interests getting ahead, and normal americans left behind.

People who want to be "cool" generally like to make lots of friends.. friends on both sides of the aisle. That seems to bode well for diplomacy, comprimise, and actual work getting done in Washington.

Tough? Bully
Cool? Good Guy.

I'll take the cool guy - thanks.

[bigtree]

58. you think the chickenshit is 'tough'?

NONE of the policies and practices Bush weaseled in behind his republican majorities will be dislodged by merely coaxing them down. The next president will have to stand up and FIGHT. No one is going to relinquish power in Washington just because Obama 'inspires' them.

[MethuenProgressive]

53. "You know what? We need a tough president.'' Amen, sister!

If being President was only a gig on the speech giving circuit, Obama would be sufficient.
But it's not. And he's not.

[cd3dem]

55. What is Obama going to do when Mahmoud Ahmadinejad uses code words?

[Donnachaidh]

57. he'll ask Ahmadinejad to translate for him.

:rofl: He'll be ever so INSPIRING when he asks, too! :rofl:

[NJmaverick]

62. Yeah that's what this Country needs- More fighting!

I was thinking that very thought today. I said the Country is just too damned united. It needs to have more fighting and division. Otherwise how will anything ever get done?

[bigtree]

63. sure blame Democrats for fighting against republican lies and obstruction

Show me ONE damn instance where Democrats fought TOO hard.

ONE.

[NJmaverick]

64. Hillary will fight anyone that gets between her and power

So the target will not be a Republican, unless she somehow manages to steal the nomination.

[bigtree]

66. ridiculous rhetoric

good luck with that.

[NJmaverick]

70. More like fact- something your candidate and her supporters

consider "ridiculous". You remind me of that old joke "who are you going to believe, me or your eyes?"

[bigtree]

73. more ridiculous rhetoric about 'supporters'

Obama supporters good, Clinton supporters bad . . . right? :eyes:

[Orsino]

67. But not tough enough to tell the lobbyists to go fuck themselves?

Or not tough enough to defund the war? To stand up to the * Administration in any way at all?

Oh, she meant talking tough.

[bigtree]

69. you mean like the campaign conversion of Obama

who accepted those types of funding during his Senate campaign?

I also recall that Obama didn't decode to 'defund' the occupation any sooner than Clinton did. But, you go on . . .

[Orsino]

72. I mean like the entire campaign...

...with the exception of a few candidates no longer in the running.

I've been waiting for a long time to see the front runners demonstrate this mythical "toughness," and I'm sorry to say that it hasn't appeared yet. If it does, though, I'm sure the supporters of that candidate will be the first to tell us.

[Alamom]

71. k&r

[MzShellG]

74. America has Clinton/Bush fatigue....

We are tired of a president trying to prove how 'tough' they are. We suffered 7 years of that and it didn't help us much if at all. Our global image is tarnished. She would probly gain the same reputation as Condi Rice around the world. We want CHANGE!

[bigtree]

75. You really believe the preening chickenshit in the WH is 'tough'?

. . . blundering and blustering the nation into two bloody occupations in the Mideast? He'd like to believe his sacrifice of our troops in Iraq is 'tough'. I call it criminally ignorant. You call it what you want. It's not toughness that this administration practices, though. Obstinacy and evasiveness perhaps, but their anti-democratic maneuvering is more of a stubborn deception and denial than the fights for integrity and accountability democrats have been fighting for.

WHERE do YOU find that Democrats like Hillary Clinton and those who advocated against the administration alongside of her, have engaged in "PETTY PARTISAN POLITICS" against republicans as Obama has charged?

[MzShellG]

76. I don't think the Bush misadministration is tough....

They are a bunch of punks using the military to over compensate for their weaknesses. Hillary, like some women in power, seems to think she has to PROVE how tough she is and will over compensate as well (perhaps militarily) to achieve that image. She already chooses her words carefully to not appear weak on national security. That's the problem with SOME women competing in a man's world. They over compensate their rhetoric and actions to promote a tougher image. I have had several bosses like that. No thanks, I'll pass. Bush uses it as a tool to pander to his base for similar reasons.

[bigtree]

77. Obama, though, says she (and, by extention, other Democrats), has been overly partisan

and overly confrontational ("demonizing," as Obama puts it) in her (their) "politics" against republicans. He promises to "change the tone" in Washington by "reaching across the aisle" and "working with" the present pack of republican obstructionists. He's claiming that his approach will move the republicans off of their obstruction by virtue of his "inspiring" outreach.

Where do you think Democrats have been overly partisan against republicans as he claims? Will his centrist approach really advance the progressive agenda he's promising to deliver?

[MzShellG]

78. Obama has more appeal with moderate republicans....

I doubt he is referring to neocon types. Again, it's that tough rhetoric that, while it pleases her base, turns off a lot of reasonable moderates and independents/undecideds. When he says bipartisan outreach, he most likely means the repubicans, etc, who are willing to compromise with democrats for the good of the country. I'm not saying that Hillary doesn't work well with republicans, it's just that her rhetoric suggests otherwise, even if her actions do not. Many republicans see that as a divisive tone. Partisan politics result in gridlock, which is bad when your party does not have a big majority.

[bigtree]

79. moderate republicans

there's an abstract concept.

[H2O Man]

80. Sometimes

I think that you are posting things that you are aware favor Senator Obama.

[VotesForWomen]

82. she's right; "coolness" seems to be behind a lot of O's support. nt

[bigtree]

84. I don't know why. I'm a year older than him

. . . and my 20-something kids certainly don't think anything about my generation is 'cool'.