This Edwards supporter will be voting for Clinton

[jsamuel]

My wife will as well. Our major issues are Education, Global Warming, and Health Care. She is most like Edwards with all three of those issues.

[Andromeda]

1. Glad you've seen the light!

:hi:

[LostinVA]

2. And, I bet we'll see John Edwards, Esq., as AG

I like the man and wish he had waited until at least after Tuesday to capitulate.

[Ninga]

4. Did he? capitulate? To whom?

[Texas_Kat]

5. Circumstances....

Not a 'whom' .... a "what"

[LostinVA]

26. Thank you for getting what I meant

[jsamuel]

6. lol, I know... He didn't capitulate.

[LostinVA]

13. He did capitulate -- he dropped out of the race yesterday, remember

Why are you fighting with me? I like Edwards alot -- I even posted a thread about him yesterday. I've said for months that I like him.

Jesus. You can't even fucking say something NICE about a candidate on here without being attacked.

Welcome to my Ignore list.

[Unsane]

19. "Capitulate" has negative connotations, doofus.

It's reasonable to see why Edwards supporters wouldn't take kindly to your statement.

[LostinVA]

24. You people are such little snots

And you ALWAYS have to personally attack and cause trouble in threads where there's no reason to.

[Hieronymus]

47. Like I've been saying .. those who want the status quo will vote Hillary...

Younger well educated voters want change.

[LostinVA]

51. ?????

[Bread and Circus]

17. nice choice of words LOL!!

capitulate
(kə-pĭch'ə-lāt') pronunciation
Sponsored Links
Definition Server Virt.
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intr.v., -lat·ed, -lat·ing, -lates.

1. To surrender under specified conditions; come to terms.
2. To give up all resistance; acquiesce. See synonyms at yield.

----

I'm sure that's exactly how people would like to remember their candidate... :crazy:

[LostinVA]

21. What the fuck ever -- twist my words as usual

Everyone knows I like and respect Edwrads, so go ahead and make an issue where there is none.

Jesus Christ.

[Bread and Circus]

69. the exact definition of a word is twisting it? Are you doing a "it depends

on the what the meaning of is is"?

/confused.

[hfojvt]

32. I would hate to see him as AG

He's never worked as either a DA or as a defense attorney, has he? Presumably he cares about the poor and would want to be secretary of HHS. Not as high profile a cabinet position, but one much more in line with his stated purpose. Fitzpatrick can be AG, he's already got a start on prosecuting Cheney.

[Hoof Hearted]

76. Secretary of HHS! YES! That's what we thought too!

[bvar22]

77. Besides that,

Edwards has pledged to fight Corporate Crime, NOT join in the looting by the White House.

[Kira]

3. my husband and I as well

I hope she does well tonight.

[emilyg]

54. And my whole family.

[cali]

7. congratulations on making your choice. n/t

[RaleighNCDUer]

8. She is NOT most like Edwards on health care.

His plan would gut the insurance companies. Hers gives them all the power.

How is that "most like"?

[jsamuel]

10. Both mandate coverage so that they actually Universal, unlike Obama's.

[RaleighNCDUer]

27. Edwards' plan includes a federal program that can be bought into.

Hers doesn't. Since the federal program will be built around the existing structure of medicaid/medicare/SCHIPS/VA/military hospitals, it will start out at a run, being able to offer more at lower cost than any of the private insurance companies. If it IS mandated, are you going to choose the expensive plan over the inexpensive plan? His plan puts the private insurance companies virtually out of business, leaving them to supply supplemental and optional coverage. IOW, it leads directly to single-payer universal healthcare in the European model.

Mandates without that means the insurance companies will enrich themselves to unprecedented degrees, with no promise of better coverage. The hope that the mandate will bring costs down is absurd, because those who cannot afford the insurance will, when complying with the mandate, choose the very lowest possible option - meaning they will still have very high deductibles and very low benefits and a single visit to the emergency room will still put them in bankruptcy.

I don't know anything about Obama's plan, but since Hillary's plan can only make things WORSE, I cannot accept that as a reason to jump from Edwards to Clinton.

I may just stay home.

[jsamuel]

29. Yes it does. So does Clinton's.

[RaleighNCDUer]

43. No, hers talks about 'expanded Medicare', and means-testing.

His plan allowed ANYBODY to go with the government plan. Hers reserved the government plan for those who meet certain economic criteria, in effect expanding and formalizing a two-tier 'have and have nots' system. As the 'have nots' all belong to the government system, but the prices are guaged by what the prevailing rates are in the private sector, the government rates will continue to rise with the inflated costs of the private sector. There will be NO control over costs.

I have decent, cheap, state-furnished (state employee BC/BS) insurance. When I had an emergency appendectomy two years ago it cost me $4000. That was with the state paying 80%. Why did it cost so much? Because the hospital still charged the $1 each tylenol to the insurance. Being part of the state plan does NOT bring down costs. It just forces the state to pay the private insurance rates.

Hillary's plan is a giveaway to the insurance companies. Just as the prescription plan bill was a couple years ago. "Sure, it's not perfect, but we can get SOMETHING done now and fix it later."

"Later" never comes.

[Maven]

45. Her plan allows the same.

Again, please provide some evidence other than your own claims.

[RaleighNCDUer]

58. Her plan has not been tested.

When it comes to a fight, will she fight the companies that are FUNDING HER CANDIDACY?

And they will fight. She will compromise it into oblivion.

Frankly, i had not looked at her 'plan'. Edwards had a good one. Kucinich had a better one. Why would I bother with hers?

She will no more fight for this 'plan' than she did in 92. And we will get a gutted 'reform' that will prevent any move to universal healthcare for the next 25 years. (Assuming she could even beat McCain to begin with.)

[Maven]

59. Sigh.

She will fight. Especially since this is some unfinished business for her. She has a personal reason to fight for it.

Otherwise you can go with Obama's loose-knit "plan," which has ABSOLUTELY NO CHANCE of changing the current system.

[RaleighNCDUer]

67. No, I can vote for real progressive down ticket and ignore the presidential race.

There is a far better chance of really fixing health care by putting up with more of the same for the next 4 years than there is by getting a 'reform' that will stop all progress for a generation.

There IS a third choice besides the two corporatists.

[Hieronymus]

49. Clinton says she can get universal care by working with private

insurance companies ..... Edwards knew better.

[jsamuel]

52. that is true, that is a difference between Clinton and Edwards

However, Obama is willing to work with them too.

[Maven]

33. ABSOLUTELY WRONG. If you had bothered to read her paper, you'd know.

A Choice of a Public Plan Option: In addition to the array of private insurance choices
offered, the Health Choices Menu will also provide Americans with a choice of a public plan
option, which could be modeled on the traditional Medicare program, but would cover the
same benefits as guaranteed in private plan options in the Health Choices Menu without
creating a new bureaucracy. The alternative will compete on a level playing field with
traditional private insurance plans. It will provide a more affordable option, in part through
greater administrative savings. It will not be funded through the Medicare trust fund.

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/feature/healthcareplan/americanhealthchoicesplan.pdf

Please READ before misinforming people.

Her plan is almost identical to Edwards'.

[RaleighNCDUer]

53. "The alternative will compete on a level playing field with

traditional private insurance plans."

And with the traditional plans deciding what the playing field is, where does that leave us?

I remember a lot of pie-in-the-sky crap about the prescription plan, too. Keep the insurance companies at the reins, and NONE of those cost savings will appear.

[Maven]

55. Again, point out the fundamental difference with Edwards' plan

in terms of policy.

And please document your claims.

[RaleighNCDUer]

62. The difference is in the person promoting the plan.

Edwards, who has a career of fighting the corporations.
Clinton, who has a career of working for and compromising with the corporations that fund her campaigns.

All her talk of saving costs through technology is just pie in the sky bullshit. As long as the profits are there, the costs remain. You CAN'T control the costs with the insurance companies calling the shots.

That 'plan' is big on ideas, but sucks for nuts and bolts. If you can prove any of the assertions she makes in it, please document.

[PATRICK]

31. Didn't Hillary

wait for both plans to come out before finalizing her own? I forget the chronology but this was both smart and a case of moving the posts closer to what is needed and popularly desired. Obama could have responded by modifying his own closer to the others whatever the price at revealing his newness. By that same token Hillary has had years more time to formulate her plan rather than waiting for the political match-up to determine the outline. They can be shrewd all they want so long as they bring single payer closer to reality.

Not making concesions to the best policies is some sort of weak point for Obama and whatever pre-dispositions or political binds he is in doesn't help with specific issue voters. If he is going to work with Republicans he might start by working with his own party liberals.

(Not an indication of my vote, just noting how and why Edwards voters may prefer Hillary.)

[Maven]

11. Explain please.

Edwards' plan from what I've read is almost identical to hers. In fact if you remember when they both came out with their plans Edwards chided Clinton for cribbing from his plan.

[RaleighNCDUer]

28. See my reply, #27, above. nt

[newmajority]

68. Isn't Hillary's health care plan pretty much a carbon copy of Willard Romney's plan?

From Massachusetts, that is. Or in other words, mandatory corporate care.

[RaleighNCDUer]

72. Yep.

Back when Kucinich was the only one with a plan, what was coming out was the mandates, means-testing for government insurance (expanded Medicare). Apparently she has since stolen the open enrollment for the government plan that Edwards proposed, but when it comes to a fight I guarantee that will be the first thing to go. It is the MOST progressive part of the plan, and the Clinton methodology is to throw away the progressives - IOW, it is only there as a bargaining chip.

When Edwards said it, he meant it. She never did. It was nothing she ever considered prior to hearing Edward's plan.

[quinnox]

9. Congrats

K & R

[Maven]

12. Thanks for actually comparing the positions, instead of just eating up the narratives

[jsamuel]

14. Haha, yeah, that is why I always supported Edwards... the issues.

[OHdem10]

15. Good for you.

[InvisibleTouch]

16. Yeah, this one too...

...but it seems every candidate I switch to, drops out. I'll be curious to see what happens on Tuesday (I don't get to vote until March).

[SoFlaJet]

18. Consider this...

Source: ABC News

In six years as a member of the Wal-Mart board of directors, between 1986 and 1992, Hillary Clinton remained silent as the world's largest retailer waged a major campaign against labor unions seeking to represent store workers.

Clinton has been endorsed for president by more than a dozen unions, according to her campaign Web site, which omits any reference to her role at Wal-Mart in its detailed biography of her.

Wal-Mart's anti-union efforts were headed by one of Clinton's fellow board members, John Tate, a Wal-Mart executive vice president who also served on the board with Clinton for four of her six years.

Tate was fond of repeating, as he did at a managers meeting in 2004 after his retirement, what he said was his favorite phrase, "Labor unions are nothing but blood-sucking parasites living off the productive labor of people who work for a living."

-----

An ABC News analysis of the videotapes of at least four stockholder meetings where Clinton appeared shows she never once rose to defend the role of American labor unions.



Read more: http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4218509&page=1

[jsamuel]

22. I am not going to get into all this fighting over the past stuff. I vote on issues. She is better

than Obama on them. End of story.

[jsamuel]

23. dupe

dupe

[Metric System]

35. Of course you left out this part:

"The videotapes do show that Clinton used her role to push for more environmentally friendly policies and better treatment of women."

[BeyondGeography]

20. Lobbyists are people too...enjoy

[jsamuel]

25. I do not trust Obama with the Lobbyist issue.

He has claimed his ethics reform was a huge step forward and that is not true. While I like his commitment to not take their money, he has shown hypocrisy by allowing them to run parts of his campaign.

[BeyondGeography]

30. You're supporting the most secretive, anti-reform candidate in the race

what Obama was able to achieve with his ethics reform package with a Republican in the White House was remarkable. He has strong records on transparency and reform, going back to Illinois. Behind the scenes, she has fought every attempt to open the process and reduce the role of special interest money.

If you don't fix the basic legislative process and expose special interests to the light of day, all those gaudy position papers mean nothing. I think Edwards understands that.

[jsamuel]

34. I support Edwards, I am voting for Clinton.

I think Edwards would have accomplished that change, but I do not trust Obama to do it. The whole point of that change is to limit the power of the corporations in our democracy, but Obama is to the right of Clinton on many of the issues, so that kind of defeats the purpose.

[BeyondGeography]

36. Just got an e-mail from Obama...they now have 500,000 individual donors

they have built the best fundraising operation in the history of this party by emphasizing the grass roots. She relies heavily on $4,600 checks...and Obama is the "corporate" candidate.

There are reasons to support Clinton over Obama. "Corporate influence" isn't one of them.

[jsamuel]

37. I did not say that. I said that I think he is no better than her on that issue.

Not that he is worse. The difference is that I think he is being sneaky about it. Getting grassroots donations does not make up for his positions on the issues being to the right. He also gets his fair share of 2300 donors.

[Maven]

38. Not all Obama's donors are "small"

http://wizbangpolitics.com/2007/07/26/not-all-obamas-donors-are-small.php

Obama has used PACs and lobbyists to generate donations

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Barack_Obama/Campaign_Financing

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2007/08/09/pacs_and_lobbyists_aided_obamas_rise

Comparing dollars and cents, generally:

http://opensecrets.org/pres08/index.asp?cycle=2008

[BeyondGeography]

40. Oh, and I left out the part about Obama not owing any favors to his library donors

you know, like the Saudi royal family and uranium mining moguls.

Don't get into a dirt contest on behalf of the Clintons, you'll lose every time.

[Maven]

41. Give Obama time, he's a quick study it seems

[BeyondGeography]

46. You put your finger on another problem

No one comes out unscathed in our system. I fully expect him to be damaged goods if he has the chance to run the government for eight years. Power always comes at a price, but he goes into it with far less baggage than his opponent. That's to our benefit in the GE.

I wrote this earlier. As you can see, I'm sympathetic to the Clintons, but they (and we) should have the good sense to move on after all they've been through:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4310938&mesg_id=4310938

[kelligesq]

50. I'd ask you to continue voting for Edwards thru Feb 5, because

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4309698

[in_cog_ni_to]

39. YAY! Welcome aboard and your wife too. You made a wise decision.

:hi:

[flyarm]

42. this edwards supporter will never vote for either of the crooks..eom

[jsamuel]

44. I can certainly understand that.

[Raffi Ella]

48. Welcome!

She is not very well liked around here and my guess is that a lot of people that do support her stay silent in order to avoid the scorn and vitriol.As you can see,I'm not one of them,lol.:7

Edwards is a good man,I was sorry to see him go.I'd hoped Super Tuesday would make a difference in his favor.

He'd recently caught my attention in a big way.With the msm focusing on non issues and what with the "Billary" hate, I felt Edwards was the only Candidate speaking to me.I was wavering between him and Hillary.Their issues and concerns are similar but I felt a lot of passion and determination from him whereas with Hillary the msm drowns her out for the Hatred and Lore that they've created around her for decades now.

I now fully believe she can overcome that.Hillary has convinced me she is up for it and cares enough to actually get things done.

We're in for quite a ride,it's not going to be a cake walk but I am fully behind her and will work to ensure she does indeed get elected.

Good to have you and your wife with us.

[musicblind]

78. you are correct in that

I have stopped posting NEARLY as much in the past week or so as I used to. I just don't want to hear everyone jump down my throat if I say something nice about Clinton. And I try and be nice to ALL the candidates. I am sure that there are many like me... who have been scared into silence by the overly agressive (often times mean spirited) Obama supporters.

[OzarkDem]

56. Tell Hillary to Raise the Bar

Don't sell your vote cheap.

Ask her to adopt Edwards Health Care Reform plan if she wants your vote.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4313523

[Maven]

61. Again, Clinton's proposal allows anyone to buy into the public plan.

Please point out fundamental differences between Clinton's and Edwards' policies.

[surfermaw]

57. Going with you jsamuel, remember WJC even with both houses was an excellent President

And after all Hillary was there every step of the way, going with the tried and true.

[Yossariant]

60. ..

:yourock:

[CarolNYC]

63. Good for you...

and your wife both....I agree.

[shayes51]

64. thank you

[be inspired]

65. I respect your decision.

I will vote for Edwards, because I've been looking forward to that and he will still be on the ballot in Maryland. But I hope Clinton wins, for the reasons you mentioned. That said, I don't feel strongly enough about it to change my vote.

[robbedvoter]

66. Welcome! Carl Bernstein agrees with your choice:

Bernstein: Hillary Opposed NAFTA, "closer to John Edwards than you would think"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4313303

[jasmine621]

70. Thank you from a Clinton supporter. nt

[REDFISHBLUEFISH]

71. Thank You.

Thank You for supporting Hillary!

[jannyk]

73. The Two of us will too - not in the primary already voted for JE but

if it really is just a choice between the other two - then it will have to be Clinton. We will support her campaign, not with the enthusiasm we had for John, but we will support her.

[BlackVelvet04]

74. Me, too. n/t

[Hoof Hearted]

75. Thanks for your vote, and thank you to your wife as well. Welcome aboard! n/t