John Kerry must think Obama is not doing well in Florida ....

[Maribelle]

Before I type the rest of the message, please let me preface this with a personal rant: I worked on the get-out-the-vote campaign for Kerry in Florida in 2004. At the time, my husband was extremely ill with stage four colon cancer which had spread to his liver. Thanks to use of cell phone communications with my bed-ridden husband, I was able to go out door-to-door through low income neighborhoods. with a team of dedicated people that truly believed John Kerry cared about Floridians. I went out time after time for just a few hours a trip, then back home to care for my husband in all the ways that extremely ill adults need care.

. . On a media call that was led off by Sen. John Kerry. Here are quick translations of Kerry's opening remarks, which were directly specifically and near exclusively focused on the Clinton campaign's attempt to claim significance from what happens today in Florida:

The bottom line is that Florida offers no delegates. It should not become part of some spin campaign. . . . You have a contrast today, a juxtaposition. You have an avoidance of a rule set up by the chair to create something that isn’t supposed to be something. In my judgment, personally, as voters look at the meaning of the Florida primary, the voters are not looking for spin to win the news cycle . .

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/1/29/14140/0050

So Floridans are only good to Obama if they can produce delegates? Thanks a lot, Mr. Kerry. Thanks a lot. I cannot tell you how terribly dissapointing your dismissive attitude towards me, and my fellow Floridians that worked so hard for you, is. I am extremely glad now you've chosen to spin this for Obama.

And I truly hope the rest of this nation is watching Florida tonight.

[bigdarryl]

1. Florida doesn't count he hasn't even campaigned there

[Ravy]

7. Obama is the only one that has campaigned here. nt

[Maribelle]

10. Obama's advertisements reached 6 million households in Florida.

But, it seems, he was forced to do this because he was sold a bill of goods on national advertising, probably not realizing that most Floridians know better.

[WCGreen]

50. Oh dear....

If he get's taken by a couple of shaky national advertising reps, how can he handle Putin...

:sarcasm:

[jlake]

52. Actually, Obama is the only candidate who HAS campaigned in Florida.

But don't let the truth get in the way of a good line.

[ChiciB1]

2. I Share Your Thoughts... I Live In Florida... I Waited Years For Kerry To

run, worked my butt off for him, and NOW, I just feel betrayed! In more than one way too!

But then, it doesn't surprise me anymore, I'm getting used to the crap... just thought SOME were more honorable than others. Now I SEE, it just not so! And as Ronnie Rayguns used to say... I didn't leave the Democratic Party, The Democratic Party left me!

I'm staying til the GE and then it's all over for me! And NO, I'm not going to be a Repuke either. Don't think I'll be ANYTHING!

[Maribelle]

11. Perhaps the DNC have given the general election to the Repulicans in Florida.

Tragic, really.

[Tarc]

3. I'll be watching, for one

I certainly wish the state party wasn't so petty in moving the primary up against the established order set by the national party, but it was the right thing to do to strip the delegates. The unfortunates caught in the crossfire are the Floridian Democratic voters, and I certainly do not feel that their votes are without value. Hillary is coming down there post-vote to campaign a bit I believe, too.

[OHdem10]

4. If Kerry were honest he would say Fla is one of the Southern

states which has been slowest in resolving civil rights
issues. Every Election shows this.

I do not like to criticize someone for whom I showed support
in his election but John Kerry is not the most astute political
person. There are times he appears to have a tin ear.

[Maribelle]

14. If Obama were winning, Kerry would be saying ....

something totally different.

[beachmom]

17. No, he wouldn't. Because Obama isn't a cheater, nor is Kerry. n/t

[DJ13]

5. Your own state's Democratic Party screwed you over

Its not "Kerrys fault", its not "Obamas fault", the fault lies solely with your states Party.

They were warned by the National Democratic Party they would be disenfranchising your vote, and they didnt care.

[politicasista]

8. I hear crickets chirping n/t

[Maribelle]

24. Nope. There rant only concerened delegates. Floridians had other issues to vote on, as well.

And they did. And Kerry does not want you to hear about their votes.

[ChiciB1]

61. I'm NOT Saying It's Kerry's Fault... I KNOW Who's Fault I Think It Is...

but I will say this... it was MY understanding that they weren't supposed to be campaigning here! But that's gone by the way side and BOTH Clinton & Obama are campaigning here. I have YET to hear the REAL reason this got changed, so I have to come to my OWN conclusions!!

I certainly DON'T BLAME Howard Dean as many do... and I feel that when the candidates made their decision, they should STICK by it. And that means, who campaigns for whom isn't the "main" issue, but it does say a LOT to me about what's going on!!

So if Edwards wants to campaign here, since the other two are... I can't fault him for it. I wonder if he will, but I'm so "soured" by the front two that it's very difficult to support either. It's gone so far now that I REALLY don't see much difference between them and what we have now. I know many sincerely feel differently, but in a couple of years, if I should check back in here... I wonder what people will be saying!!

Also, I don't think the vote IS disenfranchised, just like so much else that goes on here... it may well have been "cooked" up to CONFUSE people again. Only THIS time is IS the Florida Democratic Party! Somehow they'll find a way to explain it ALL AWAY!!

JMHO!!

[featherman]

6. Clinton will win the non-binding Florida referendum

The demographics are made to order for her. It will have good spin value so I am not dismissing it
Congratulations

[mrreowwr_kittty]

9. What's so special about Florida?

Why shouldn't every state move their primary up to whatever date they want? Why bother with rules?

[LittleClarkie]

23. Let's all keep leapfrogging each other until we're having 2012 primaries

in 2009.

[sandnsea]

12. Florida is not a legitimate election

He's exactly right. Sorry you support status quo machine politics. Some of us want change.

[Maribelle]

13. Millions of Floridians have legitimately voted in this election.

Voting for the presidential nominee was not the only issue on the ballot.

That those votes do not turn into delegates at the national convention is a totally separate issue.

[sandnsea]

18. Responding to the specifics of your OP

which is the Democratic primary, Florida broke party rules so there is no legitimate election of delegates happening in Florida.

[Maribelle]

22. If I intrepret what Kerry said correctly, this is not about delegates. Kerry does not want MSM

even talking about the Democratic vote in Florida.

[sandnsea]

27. Of Course It's About Delegates

Good lord, that's what we're doing - electing the damn delegates. There can be no win because there can be no delegates.

[Maribelle]

32. I think what Kerry was saying today was not about delegates, but about the popular vote.

Kerry does not want MSM to talk about the democratic popular vote - - even though all the candidate's were on the ballot, and democrats had to vote for other issues, as well.

[sandnsea]

34. Oh fuck, the vote elects the delegates, it's the same damn thing

:crazy:

[Maribelle]

35. Kerry does not want you to know how many Floridians, in millions, voted for Hillary.

Nothing at all to do with delegates.

[sandnsea]

43. He wants people to know there was NO CAMPAIGN in Florida

Because there's no delegates to be seated. You can spin it unethically if you want, everybody knows the truth.

[Maribelle]

49. Two separate issues: (1) the delegates (2) the popular vote

Floridians voted for many issues in the popular vote on their primary ballots. Taxes and ground rules were some important issues to them. They want the world to know how they voted.

There is nothing unethical about this.

Attempting to marginalize their popular votes with bureaucratic bullshit is unethical.

[joshcryer]

28. You wish.

[beachmom]

15. MadFloridian has been posting on this for a long time.

She tried to warn us of what was going on. I realize now how right she was. Florida did not follow the rules, and everyone agreed the delegates wouldn't count. It is not honorable to play Calvinball in the middle of a primary season.

Good for Kerry for telling it like it is.

[Maribelle]

19. Listen, all the while Obama was saying Michigan didn't count, out one side of his mouth

...out the other side of his mouth he said look at all those undecideds and my name was not even on the ballot, shame shame shame Hillary. And all the while he was campaigning in the state for his supporters to vote undecided.

Triple forked tongue, that is.

Kerry and Obama are going to spin Florida in their toilets, if it sounds good for Obama.

[sandnsea]

20. Who knew there were so many unethical Democrats

I sure as hell didn't. I don't blame the voters of Florida, but DUers know better.

[politicasista]

21. I have a feeling that if Kerry had endorsed Clinton, the OP would be singing a different tune n/t

[joshcryer]

30. The delegates don't count toward the nomination, but they certainly matter, and will be seated.

Anyone ignoring this fact is just delusional beyond measure.

[robbedvoter]

16. Kerry - not one to care much about voters. Elections - something that benefits HIM

or not.
I also remember a thread here:
"REMEMBER FOLKS! POPULAR VOTE MEANS NOTHING! IT'S ONLY DELEGATES THAT MATTER"
I hope they make a campaign slogan of it.

[Maribelle]

26. You're correct: Popular vote is the key. Kerry does not want you to hear this.

And quite frankly, I do not understand how Kerry can stop MSM from talking about the popular vote. That's the key to this OP.

:hi:

[forsberg]

25. Florida counts and Obama is going to get demolished

A precursor to Super Tuesday

[in_cog_ni_to]

29. "stop crying in your teacup"

:grr: On questioning the STOLEN ELECTION.... "Stop crying in your teacups," he told one audience. "It isn't going to change. Get over it." That sums up John Kerry for me.

Kerry's mad at Hillary for not defending him when he made that bad joke about Iraq. It's "get even" time.

[robbedvoter]

37. It's why he NEVER got my support. My vote but no support. Then he recalled

the Ohio bound lawyers from the tarmac saying "they'll say we are crybabies" (Mike Papantonio was one of those lawyers - Air America). He picked his personal comfort over my vote. Now, he picks his protegee's.

Look at the abuses this leads to - Democrats are refused ballots - told there is no primary! Today! in Florida!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4269492&mesg_id=4269492

[in_cog_ni_to]

41. I saw that thread. Not making the thugs pay for stealing elections, the Dems have set themselves up

for election thefts FOREVER.

[krkaufman]

62. Look to the common denominator between this issue and past.

Florida Democratic Party officials. The Florida Democratic Party is wholly at fault in this matter, thinking they should be allowed to break the agreed-upon primary calendar, without any consequences.

[LittleClarkie]

31. Rather like when Hillary claimed victory in Michigan

when she was the only one on the ballot.

It's not what's happening in Florida so much as how the Clinton campaign will spin it that he's talking about.

[rox63]

33. Florida's delegates DON"T F***ING COUNT in the primary

Why would anyone who's trying to build up delegates for the convention waste his or her time campaigning there for the primary?

[robbedvoter]

38. Do voters count? Do we want their votes in GE? because - we probably lost lots of them today.

Read this and tell me about f*ing delegates:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4269492&mesg_id=4269828

[AGirl]

39. Obama and Kerry are so willing to undermine the democratic spirit

of Floridians , their win at all cost strategy is certainly opposite of their so called plea for greater involvement in the government.

What a bunch of phonies.

[rox63]

42. Blame the FL Dem Party for refusing to play by the rules n/t

[krkaufman]

63. Note that the candidates are actually banned from campaigning in MI & FL. n/t

[AGirl]

36. I don’t know why anyone can say the Florida vote has no meaning.

Seriously, that’s really stupid. Floridians have heard the debates , they have internet and tv access, they can decide for themselves which one they like. That decision does mean something, and I am offended anyone suggesting that it is meaningless simply because it has no "delegates".

[beachmom]

44. Nobody CAMPAIGNED in it, that's why. Not just candidates, but

no ground organization. It doesn't COUNT, because the Florida State Democratic Party did not listen to the DNC. Their primary COULD HAVE COUNTED, but they chose not to follow the rules. Sheesh, how hard is it to understand?

[Maribelle]

53. The primary today in Florida counted.

Other issues were on the ballot besides the Democratic candidates.

[Jensen]

45. AGirl, Thanks! I'm a Floridian and I proudly voted today!

I walked miles for Gore,Kerry, met Edwards in 2004 and will continue to make up my own mind, work hard to get my Dem candidate in the WH, for me it counts... BIG TIME !

[AGirl]

46. Don't thank me, it's your vote. :) Good for you!

[krkaufman]

40. I feel your angst is misdirected.

The Florida politicians who opted to break with the agreed-upon primary schedule are the root source of the FL delegate issue, followed by a perhaps less than ideal "solution" from the DNC. However, none of the candidates should be blamed for the problems, unless the accusations are spead evenly amongst those who earlier agreed to the DNC "remedy."

For one of the campaigns to now be calling for the seating of the Florida and Michigan delegates, after it is too late for any of the candidates to advertise or campaign is suspect -- and even moreso when the candidate making the request stands to benefit most from fulfillment of the request, and when the request is suspiciously made in the days before one of the primaries in question.

Is it fair to Obama and Edwards supporters for their candidates to not have been able to campaign or advertise in Michigan and Florida, and so to see their state's primary voting trend toward the candidate with the most built-in name recognition? (Especially in Michigan, where Obama and Edwards weren't even on the ballot?)

And is it reasonable for the media to characterize the Florida or Michigan results as indicative of popular support for the platforms and issues of the various candidates, when the candidates haven't been able to communicate directly with the voters?

I empathize with the difficult situation you describe, but suspect there are many other Michiganders and Floridians who support Obama, Edwards and other Democratic candidates who would view the delegates of these two states as tainted by a lack of openness, having fallen short of a free and fair election process.

[Maribelle]

47. Putting the delegates aside for the time being, and just speaking on the popular vote:

It has been argued that the Obama campaign and the Edwards campaign did in fact campaign in Michigan to have their supporters vote undeclared. And on the other end of the vote, they tried to cast aspersions on the fact that Hillary's vote tally was not high enough over the undeclared.


All of the candidates names are on the ballot.

Most Floridian voters know full well who John Edwards is from the 2004 election.

On many occasions, deep in Florida, I saw many many folks out campaigning for Obama, and have heard reports of the same thing happening in other parts of Florida. It has been reported that roughly six million households in Florida received many Obama advertisements thru his "national" advertising package.

Most Floridian households watch national networks, watched the debates, listen to national news, and are keenly aware of each of the democratic candidates. Don't underestimate the knowledge of Floridians.

The built-in name recognition pomp is bogus.

The Governor of Florida has been on television for quite some time urging all voters in Florida to vote in the primaries, that their votes were important.

Kerry and Obama should not be allowed to prevent the popular vote from being broadcast tonight.

[politicasista]

48. I think you just want to target Kerry because

he didn't endorse your candidate. I agree with those who say your anger should be directed at the Florida Democratic Party.

[Maribelle]

51. Nope. I want to target Kerry because of what he said in the OP.

I am actually glad the creep didn't endorse my candidate. The popular vote is a separate entity from the Florida Democratic Party's delegates.

amen

[ProSense]

54. Yeah, it must be that! It has nothing to do with following the rules. n/t

[politicasista]

55. The "creep"? Nice personal attack

You don't do Hillary any favors by attacking someone who has pledged to defend her is she is the nominee.

[UALRBSofL]

57. Well, I'm glad MSM is reporting it

MSM, especially CNN will be covering it tonight. And of course all the papers throughout the country will report it as well.

[krkaufman]

60. Sure, but the popular vote will be tainted by a lack of campaigning...

... which is why the delegates should never be seated. Nor should any "respectable" media outlet report the Florida and Michigan results as reflective of a free and fair election process.

[robbedvoter]

58. Been targetting him since the teacup remark. It was in my profile for years

I only changed it recently for the primaries. Obama is welcome to his arrogant ass!

[krkaufman]

59. Candidates haven't campaigned in the state, nor advertised...

... certainly not to ANY degree coming close to the campaigning in any previous states; and your disregard for the influence of name recognition ignores historical and statistical fact.

Florida's and Michigan's delegates should not influence the selection of the Democratic nominee; doing so will taint the selection as much as the US Supreme Court's selection of Bush in 2000.

[karynnj]

56. The time for Hillary Clinton to have made the point that Florida and Michigan

should count was when Dean and the states were fighting. Instead she and all the candidates sided with Dean.

I think Dean created this mess. The Republicans agreed to have them get half the delegates, which is a much better solution. Not, to mention that may the races real and everyone participated and no one was compltetely disenfranchised.

The problem is when Clinton decides mid game to change the rules.

Kerry was not involved in that mess - he did not make the rules. He is simply saying that when you agree to rules - you follow them.