If Obama wins the primary...I honestly believe he will be chewed up and spit

[Auntie Bush]

out if he has to debate McCain and I think Hillary can hold her own or even beat McCain.

#1 McCain is a smooth calm down to earth talker...like Cheney. Edwards with all his trial experience couldn't effectively debate him either. Obama sounds more like a preacher and you don't get a chance to use that effective preacher tone of voice in a debate. IMHO that's why he hasn't really won a debate. Hillary doesn't have a soothing voice either...but when she isn't campaigning it's a lot softer and she knows the facts and figures and explains them and her plans best of all.

#2 Obama can't hold a candle to John McCain and his years of foreign policy experience in and out of the senate. Hillary has also had a lot more than Obama and maybe even more than McCain.. She's met 80+ world leaders and has her husband to boot...plus her years on the foreign relations committee (or whatever it's called) Promises of hope and change is good but very hard to use in a debate.

#3 I'm afraid Obama just doesn't have the political experiences to draw on in a debate...but again, that's just MHO
#4 Hillary has had far more experience in Health care and will come across as an expert with her facts and explanations. Both Obama and Clinton could far out weigh McCain on health care. He won't be able to hold a candle to either of them.

#5 As far as ending the war... No one wants to to go on and on forever like McCain. They both have him beat. Most people will think Clinton and Obama have a much better position. Moderates will probably prefer Clinton's more cautious well planned, thoughtful approach to removal of the troops.


#6 I also think both our candidates have better ideas on education and could out discuss McCain. Same thing goes for taxes but I don't know which one has the best or most realistic plan. We'll have to wait for Congress to tell us what's possible.

#7 Anyway that's my take...what's yours? What do you agree with and what do you disagree with? A good diversion from the liar in chief lying his ass off.

[1corona4u]

1. Like I said before; I'm just about ready to say fuck it.

let Obama win. This way, he'll be out in 4, and we will be done with him, forever.

[DemBones DemBones]

22. Or we'll be stuck with a Republican.

I'm not sure Clinton or Obama could win. The country is nothing like DU. I think a lot of people will not vote for a woman or a black to be president at this point in time.

[1corona4u]

25. Probably....

I can see a McCain presidency....

[DemBones DemBones]

50. Me, too, and it's a scary sight.

I don't feel too positive about the future of the US.

[ginchinchili]

56. I'm not sure I can bring myself to vote for this woman or this black...

and I damn sure can't vote for any Republican. I'm afraid our country is officially dummied down. We just can't think for ourselves anymore. Obama is certainly a likable guy, but he's not qualified to be president. Bush wasn't qualified either and look how that worked out. Obama lacks substance. I was looking at his website and his plans lack detail, and some sound like a bureaucratic nightmare. He wants to pass all these laws protecting the rights of minorities and women, but most are already in place. We have a black female supervisor where I work who is a nightmare. All my coworkers in my department are African American, except one, and female, and none of us can stand her. She does a terrible job and breaks rule after rule and even has a work-related lawsuit against her, yet they can't fire her because she's African American and female. It's insane. Yeah, we need more of that. That will sure bring Americans together.

[BeyondGeography]

35. We won't have to worry about record Democratic turnouts anymore either

That'll be cool. Guys like Beltway Biden and gals like Over the Hill, they'll take us back to 55% participation rates and no governing mandate.

Awesome.

[1corona4u]

49. Maybe, maybe not....

but we definitely won't have to deal with the Obama arrogance or the arrogance of his supporters. That would be a nice change right now...

By the way, Biden isn't a part of the 'beltway'. Get your facts straight.

[femrap]

42. If you look back at history,

Americans do not vote for CHANGE....they'll hold their nose and stay with the repugnant.

If everyone who calls themselves a DEMOCRAT and really, truly cares for this nation, its Constitution and its working people, I think they need to ask themselves a question, "Who would be the best candidate we can put forward to beat the repugnant candidate?'

Forget young vs. old, male vs. female, black vs. white....forget all of it. Which candidate stands up for the average American citizen and is willing to fight for our Democracy against these fascist, Greedy Corporations who are killing our way of life?

Who has the best chance of beating McCain or Romney? If Democrats were honest, I think they'd have to say Edwards.

[Sapphocrat]

54. Problem with that is...

...after Obama's out, we're looking at eight years after that of a Repuke, guaranteed. Then said Repuke's VP runs, and...

That's why it's vitally important to save Obama from himself (and the Democratic Party from Obama) before he can get in. Unless, of course, everyone will be satisfied with another Jimmy Carter blip between Nixon-Nixon-Ford and Reagan-Reagan-Bush I. Y'know?

[Proud2BAmurkin]

2. your point #2 and #3 is why I'm with Clinton

[maddiejoan]

3. My fear is the MSM

is giving us Obama --so they can rip him to shreds.

Even if he wins --they will do to him what they did to Carter.

Anyways --that IS my fear.

[Zueda]

13. That because you haven't found hope.

[maddiejoan]

16. I want a sure thing

[Auntie Bush]

21. That's my greatest fear too. They can make the masses believe anything they want and

right now they want Obama...and I'm afraid they will get him and lose the election to McCain. Horrors!

[KennedyGuy]

4. I think his supporters actually expect this gushing and fawning coverage to continue..

if they manage to knock off Hillary.

[Zueda]

5. Hillary can't stand on her own now. She is not self-made like a true leader should be.

[surfermaw]

18. I am and Edwards supporter, but I beg to differ on Hillary

without Hillary, Bill Clinton would never have been President of the United States... I remember like it was today, I was worried about who we would run, my husbands said don't worry that young Clintion kid from Arkansas is going to be the nominee and his wife is as intelligent as he is an both are lawyers and college P.

[Zueda]

30. Why then does Bill have to hold her hand instead of portraying an unbiased position...

as one would expect from a former president.

I could understand some nice words about his wife from time to time but to act the way he has been is just ridiculous.

seriously...do you think if she weren't married to Bill that she would be where she is right now...running for president?

[elixir]

41. HRC earned a lot of her acclaim through her work in the senate.

[busymom]

6. only...

If we don't unite as a party.

The mudslinging by democrats has to stop and we have to rally around the final 3 candidates and create a more positive tone...all of us. This is about democrats taking back the presidency.....not about getting our favorite candidate to be the nominee.

[Skip Intro]

7. We would lose with Obama at the top of the ticket. Period.

Whining about how mean the opponnet is seems strangely to work here and there with some Dem primary voters. Won't work in the GE, tho. Won't work on an international scale.

I truly believe the end result of an Obama presidency would be worse. We would quickly become a minority party for years to come.

[kelligesq]

17. I agree - the result

will be a McCain or a Mitt....and the people screwed by war and more corporate sponsorship, military industrial good times

[ErnestoG]

8. If we get HRC, you can say hello to the first McCain administration

[Tom Rinaldo]

26. I think the opposite is more likely n/t

[ErnestoG]

33. Really? Go do a Google search on Hillary hate sites vs. Obama ones

You're about to get an eye opening harbinger for the general election

[Tom Rinaldo]

37. Really

McCain's ace cards are experience and national security credentials. Those are Obama's weakest cards. That is a potentially dangerous match up for us. Obama against a Governor, Obama against a Mayor, Obama against a back bencher one term plus Senator like Thompson; those match ups would not create as stark a perceived contrast of a skilled veteran against a wet behind the ears rookie as a McCain Obama match up might. I know some here at DU give minimal creedence to any assertion that Clinton is a more seasoned and experienced political leader than Obama, but that flies in the face of all national polling done to date. Most of the public believes Hillary is far more experienced even if some here do not.

One of Hillary's other strengths this primary season has been her ability to convey a deep understanding of and mastery of the details concerning a wide array of issues and policy matters during her debate performances. She may not always be the most inspirational speaker but she comes across to most observers as highly intelligent and competent. Those qualities will be needed in a Democratic candidate opposing McCain.

McCain's other great strength is that he almost always comes across as the real adult in the room when he is surrounded by the other Republican candidates. That quality is driving his success now even though many of his past positions remain at odds with the core Republican base. Everyone knows McCain has paid his dues and that he is a very serious candidate. Again, Hillary Clinton can stand up and hold her own against those qualities better than any of our other remaining candidates.

No matter who we nominate, that person will run on a Democratic platform and McCain will have to overcome the negative stigma associated with the Republican Party coming out of two terms of a Bush Jr. Presidency. It is my feeling that the race is ours to lose, and that the only way Republicans can win is if they sow deep enough seeds of doubt about the capacity of who ever the Democrats nominate to lead our nation through difficult times. Obama has only been a player on the national scene for three years. The last time America elected a President Obama was among many thousands of American politicians serving in State legislatures representing very local districts.

The logical basis for sowing doubt over our candidate's ability to lead our nation and the world will be handed to McCain on a silver platter if Obama should become our nominee. The buzz word will be inexperienced, and inexperience fails to elicit confidence, especially when contrasted with someone like McCain. Hillary Clinton would nuetralize that particular advantage for McCain far more than would Barack Obama, and I think any Democrat will win in 2008 if the election actually revolves around the issues.

Further I trust in Clinton's toughness under political fire. I know she won't have a momentary melt down that could throw her campaign seriously off track. She can get thrown momentarily off stride, that happens to everyone in politics, but I don't think she can get thrown off her feet. Hillary has held up under the worst that the national media can throw at her already, for well over a decade. I think any Republican, even McCain, will need for the Democrat to have some serious stumbles in order to win, and Hillary Clinton is the Democrat who is least likely to stumble. It's like knowing your vehicle has four wheel drive as you head into a likely snow storm. It is reassuring for solid reasons.

Hillary Clinton showed that in the adjustment she made when the front runner campaign strategy she had been holding to failed to connect with the actual voters she was asking to support her. She took a blow in Iowa and she made a real adjustment and became a better candidate because of it. That to me is very encouraging. She will adjust again after South Carolina. And she will end up a winner.

Finally, yes there is the matter of her being a woman. The thing is, women are not a minority group in America, they are a majority group. And every time some Republican talk show Yahoo takes a negative below the belt swing at Hillary Clinton (and you know that they will even if McCain himself doesn't) that will strengthen her appeal to women, including Independent and Republican women. If Hillary Clinton is our nominee I expect some surprises to be revealed in the exit polls conducted on election day. Many Republican women who will be assuring their husbands (and telephone pollsters calling them at home) all along that they too can't vote for Hillary will do exactly that, in the privacy of a polling booth.

[Mz Pip]

44. Except that McCain

is wrong on just about everything. He may have 'experience' but he is still wrong. The majority of people want us out of Iraq. He's cool with our being there for another 100 years.

Experience ain't worth diddly squat if all that experience leads to to the wrong conclusion.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[existentialist]

9. I think that you underestimate Obama and his debating ability,

and his knowledge if not his experience in foreign affairs.

It was, after all, Obama, who stated that Pakistan was the most dangerous country in the world about two weeks before Benizar Bhutto was assassinated.

Don't get me wrong, I think Hillary Clinton and John Edwards could more than hold their own in a debate against John McCain too, and I am NOT endorsing anyone.

[peoli]

10. I think you are out of touch with the desperate need to start anew in this country

[CK_John]

11. IMO, we will not know the GOP candidate until their convention and it will be a

ringer and not one of their current candidates.

[kelligesq]

12. The media HATES bill clinton - always has - so doing a number

[NJSecularist]

14. Kerry dominated Bush in the debates and he still lost the 2004 election

Let's face it, the debates mean little to nothing in the grand scheme. Campaigning and good ground games in the swing states will ultimately be the difference in this election.

[kelligesq]

24. Kerry can only dominate a debate by boring you to capitualtion

[Meshuga]

43. You didn't watch the debates then because it was fun (not boring)

watching Bush losing the debate to Kerry. Too bad the debates didn't seem to matter in the final result.

[ShortnFiery]

15. Right, and of course, we all know that your concern is both genuine and objective?

:crazy:

[Auntie Bush]

29. And what did I say that wasn't a genuine comment?

I personally feel I was as honest as possible.. I may frequently be wrong...but I'm always HONEST. Stop projecting! It isn't becoming.

[canoeist52]

19. God herself would be chewed up and spit out by the Republican Machine! It's what they do .

I don't know of any democratic candidate in history who could withstand today's media.

[Occam Bandage]

20. If Clinton can't do it, McCain can't.

[featherman]

23. Nah... not really.

McCain - total media love
Clinton - total media disdain

Not a good formula for success. I'd rather run a charismatic candidate that the MSM gives more love to than they will to Clinton so as to even that playing field a bit this election. We've been done that Gore/Kerry road too many times with the entire MSM arrayed against the DEM.

Saying all that it is obvious that Clinton is the party anointed candidate and will likely get the nomination so I guess we'll all have to deal with another cycle of consistent negative coverage of our candidate versus "he can do no wrong" from theirs.

That's my take but, hey, what do I know? I've only been campaigning for Democrats since 1960.

[pearl]

34. Does anybody honestly believe

That the Clintons (a known quantity) will draw any independents. Anybody? Hell, I'm a loyal dem and will have the hardest time ever voting for her. Do we really think there's going to be the incredible enthusiasm to get out and work for her. After they left our party in shambles in '01.

[flyarm]

27. the only one who beats McCain nation wide is Edwards..when the hell are dems going to wake up? eom

[Catherine Vincent]

28. I think whether Hillary or Obama wins, the republican nominee will not want to step on any toes.

Hillary because she's a woman and Obama because he's black.

[katsy]

31. If your prediction comes to pass...

stick a fork in this country, it's done. We'll get exactly what we deserve. Like 8 years of republican policies aren't devastating enough.

That being said, it's my hope that the majority of American voters are not stupid enough to vote republican again for at least a generation.

Seriously, do you think that any of our 3 top candidates would be unable to beat mccain... the guy running around wanting to stay in Iraq for 100 years, wants more tax cuts for the wealthy and sings "bomb bomb bomb Iran"?

I have no dog in this race - tho I'm leaning Edwards and think highly of all 3 candidates.

[cd3dem]

32. Obama 3.6% probability of winning against McCain

Obama
3.6% probability of winning
Mean of 236 electoral votes

McCain
96.0% probability of winning
Mean of 302 electoral votes

http://hominidviews.com/?p=1250

Clinton
Wins 91.7%
Mean of 293 electoral votes

McCain
Wins 7.8%
Mean of 245 electoral votes

http://hominidviews.com/?p=1237

[Tarc]

36. Pretty much nails it

[Helga Scow Stern]

38. How about this, for a worse case scenario:

the fix is in for Guiliani, but in order to make it look the least bit plausible, they have to come up with a reason why the impossible happened, like hanging chads and gay marriage, etc. If Obama continues to be super popular, they might have a revolution on their hands. Much easier to say it's because there is just too much Clinton hatred.

Just considering all the possibilities. They have seized power all along, why would it be different now? McCain doesn't play by their rules, does he? Not enough, and Rush hates him. Guiliani is the racketeering choice, the criminal element that runs the country need him or another like him in power. The good news is, if this happens, I doubt that the people will stand for it. Not after the third election is stolen, and especially not with so many young people involved. Oh but by hyping the polarity in the media, the Obama supporters might hate Hillary and not care. That might be the hope. I doubt if it would work. And I hope I am wrong about this worse case scenario.

[JAbuchan08]

39. All you have to do is get McCain angry and he exposes himself

[comradebillyboy]

40. I am aHillary supporter and I think Obama

can kick McCain's ass. But we won't need to worry about big John because Mittens will be the pubbies nominee, since the Republican establishment hates McCain as much as they hate Clinton(either one). And all the evangelicals will stay home rather than vote for a heretic.

[BlackVelvet04]

45. I think all someone has to do is ask Obama the same

question I asked his supporters and he's dead meat. Either he loses republican supporters or Dem/Ind supporters with his answer.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4253512

[Cant trust em]

46. Keep talking about 100 years in Iraq, John

Keep it up. Most Americans didn't want to be here 2 years. They're tired of it and they want out. A protracted occupation is a non-starter for most folks.

[Triana]

47. The only one who could beat McCain is Edwards....

..and he got shut out by corprat-owned media.

Good luck - the other two.

[Freida5]

48. I wouldnt worry about what McCain will do-He'll be mild. It Hannity, Limbaugh etc

that will tear him apart.

[ihelpu2see]

51. McCain is easily beaten on age, on the war and on economics.... I spewed nonsense

on economics in the republicant debate the other night, his constant overt use of the troops sacrifice as a reason to continue this horrid occupation and he is 71 years old..... Maybe Hillary loses to him but not Obama....

GO BAMA !!!

[ihelpu2see]

52. deleted dupe, sorry

[ihelpu2see]

53. deleted dupe, sorry

[Colobo]

55. You say that, because you support Hillary and not Obama.