Shame on both Obama AND Hillary supporters regarding Michagin

[Endangered Specie]

Shame on Hillary supporters for pretending that the only reason she wants those delegates seated isn't that most of them did/will vote for her and nothing else.

and Shame on Obama supporters for being holier than thou and pretending that he wouldn't do the same damn thing if the positions were reversed.

[thunder rising]

1. Hillarys position is a fact and your assumption about Barack is tainted projection

This thinking is so much who you are you can't even begin to think that somebody could think differently.

[sidwill]

2. Ahem.

The only provable point you make is that Hillary is trying to cheat.

The point you make about Obama is speculation, nothing more.

[babylonsister]

3. One thing I like about Obama is his integrity. It's in short supply elsewhere. nt

[indimuse]

15. one word.

Rezko.:spank:

[LittleClarkie]

4. I'd be disappointed if he did. Just as I would be disappointed if he

claimed victory when he was the only one on the ballot. I would hope he wouldn't. But we already know Hillary DID.

[MercutioATC]

5. Two issues with that:

1) All of the other candidates followed DNC direction and withdrew from the Michigan primary. Clinton didn't.

2) Because of this, she would get ALL of the Michigan delegates if the decision to bar them from the convention was reversed.

[Sparkly]

8. Two issues with your two issues

1.) She did withdraw from the MI primary. The prohibition was against campaigning there. Three Democrats went an extra, unnecessary step and requested their names removed from ballots; three Democrats didn't take that step.

2.) If the delegates were seated, they wouldn't necessarily go by the results of a primary that didn't actually occur.

[MercutioATC]

11. Two followups...

1) You're absolutely correct. However neither Edwards nor Obama had their names on the ballots, so of the three frontrunners, she was the only candidate listed.

2) The delegates that would be seated are Clinton delegates. I think there's a pretty good chance they'd vote for her.

[Seen the light]

6. How could the positions been reversed?

Obama followed the rules and Clinton did not. Shows that he has some integrity. How could the positions have been reversed if he wasn't even on the ballot? How was he supposed to win that?

[Cant trust em]

7. For sure

I don't think that the original poster knows what the DNC did to Michigan or Florida.

[Endangered Specie]

9. Perhaps you should turn in your crystal ball, its defective...

The DNC stripped the two states of all their delegates because they moved their primaries up before 5 Feb even though they were told they aren't allowed too. Blame the state party for that if you want.

[Cant trust em]

14. and the major candidates agreed to keep their names off the ballot

Hillary Clinton reneged on that agreement.

[Endangered Specie]

18. if anything Hillary gains points in my book for that one...

this game, its called politics. The rest should have immediatly reneged as well.

[Cant trust em]

25. Are you defending her actions, or just acceding to reality?

I think it's unfortunate how if one person lowers the ethical bar then everyone else should do the limbo too. How low can we go?

[Endangered Specie]

26. Im not defending it... but this is politics

its about not whose fair, its about who wins. You can be 'fair' and 'ethical' all you wan't it doesn't matter two shits if you end up as the "also ran".

[Cant trust em]

27. At least you're honest

I do think, however, that this tells something about Mrs. Clinton's trustworthiness. What other rules/agreements/laws will she brush aside to achieve her gains if she continues down this path?

[Lucinda]

10. Hillary got 55% - Uncommitted got 40 % - NOT that much difference

in the delegates that would be awarded.

It's about being fair,and not pissing off voters before the GE.

[Endangered Specie]

12. Thing is I think voters get pissed off equally both things:

Those being a politician who breaks the rules and a politician who pretends to be holier than thou.

[Lucinda]

16. I disagree. There was great turnout in MI and Kucinich was the ONLY one who

campaigned there. The absentee vote for Dems in Florida is HUGE this year. People are very engaged. Even though the state parties tried to jockey for position, and the delegates, for the moment don't count, the voters care. And if their voices aren't heard in the nomination, its a bad thing.

For me, it's about a whole lot more than who gets what delegates.

[Endangered Specie]

20. you said you disagreed with me, but I didnt see a rebutall...

again, my position is that voters dislike "holier than thou" attitudes just as much as "rule breakers"

[Lucinda]

23. Voters want their votes to count.

Really isn't that difficult. Is it?

[Endangered Specie]

24. Then they should take it up with the state Dem parties

they should have known good and well what would happen if they moved up the primary.

or blame the DNC for being so harsh.

or blame the entire primary process.

either way, whats done is done.

[joshcryer]

17. Exactly, it's not as if all the delegates would go to the winner! What a joke!

[BeyondGeography]

13. There's no equivalency between the two here

Much as you'd like to try.

[hayu_lol]

19. Hillary stayed on the ballot. She is, after all, running for the presidency.

The others, because of their political inexperience, fought tooth and nail to get their names off the ballot in Michigan. They were successful. They successfully pandered to the Iowa/NH election process and lost thereby

Hillary, unlike Dennis, did not campaign in Michigan. That was complying with the boycott. Names on the ballot had nothing to do with the DNC edict.

Shame that the Party machine in Michigan screwed their own voters.

[frogcycle]

21. tastes great

[Stephanie]

22. He had the opportunity to do it and he did NOT.

WTF? Do you even understand what happened?