Hey Hillary! "Shuck and jive" Obama as a drug dealer and went to a Madrassa, etc. many Black folk...

[wndycty]

...ain't buying the claims that these words by your supporters were accidents. The list keeps piling up and folks are taking notice. That "shuck and jive" comment will be discussed on Black radio, in Black papers on Black blogs. . .we getting sick of this shit.

Don't piss on our shoes and tell us its raining.

ON EDIT: THIS IS A GOD DAMNED PATTERN! I'm livid.

[geek tragedy]

1. I'm registering Independent if these racists take the party over again.

Go back to Arkansas, you damn racist redneck hillbillies.

[wndycty]

6. They are doing everything in their power to undermine their legacy in the Black community. . .

. . .when my parents and my grandmother see stuff like this they are heart broken. I was speaking to my mom the other day and she said while she still loves the Clintons she now wonders if all those stories she has dismissed over the years might not have a bit of truth.

[ariesgem]

125. My mother just walked in the door and I told her about this. She's livid.

She's picked up on the racist overtones of Hillary's campaign and is throughly disgusted by their tactics.

Her and I were always supporters of the Clintons in general. I choose to sit out this election (for the first time in 25 years) if Hillary's our nominee. I'm done with the Clintons and will never look at them the same again. My mother will hold her nose and vote.

[Bonobo]

146. I told my mother. You SHOULD have seen her face. Like 50 years of progress had just died.

[Muddy Waters Guitar]

150. Sad implications-- this could split a coalition that's lasted since the 1920's

African-Americans were with the Republicans for 80 years after the Civil War, and it's now been 80 years with the Democrats. The Clintons might just succeed in pushing them away again with these idiotic antics.

[Barack_America]

158. Oh man, don't say that. Nobody likes heartbroken mothers.

Shit, now I'm pissed again. I'm not letting this die.

[jasmine621]

118. Please provide evidence of Hillary saying these things.

Otherwise, STFU!

[Muddy Waters Guitar]

167. Hillary trashed MLK

while her surrogates such as Sheehan, Kerrey and Cuomo made the other comments. Bill Clinton made some of the most insulting comments of all, calling Obama "a kid." It's easy to find these-- it's called Googling. You might want to try it sometime.

[avaistheone1]

181. Nonsense. It is a lie. HIllary did not say this, Nor did anyone in her campaign.

Andrew Cuomo said this not in reference to Obama but in terms of the Democratic presidential primary.
FYI Andrew is not a part of Hillary's campaign.

Here's the link.
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/ny-uscuom115533466jan11,0,3011306.story

People are really losing a grip.

Why are people interested in giving life to what is obviously an ugly lie?

[Rockholm]

169. Then I guess you will be leaving DEMOCRATIC Underground?

This is for Democrats, ya know.

[ursi]

192. Hillary Clinton is a Divider. She doesn't care about real people, just elites

I believe that in my heart and soul. She lost hers when Bill embarrassed her. Now she is all Borg machine.

[Egnever]

2. I hope Black folks aren't the only ones not buying it.

I hope all people of conscience are rejecting it.

[BeyondGeography]

7. Seconded

:thumbsup:

[Nedsdag]

110. I wonder how Hillary supporters like

Sheila Jackson Lee and Stephanie Tubbs Jones feel about statements such as the one Cuomo made?

I know I'd be upset and disappointed with Cuomo.

[babylonsister]

37. I'm not buying it, and it IS a pattern. nt

[Muddy Waters Guitar]

106. Agree

On the heels of Hillary's swipe against MLK, there's more than a mild pattern in evidence here.

[Essene]

42. Doesnt matter... because the media will prop up the Al Sharptons (as usual)

Who will proceed to cry about the race card and give the fear mongering more fuel.

[annie1]

140. I rejected little Cuomo day 1. He's a tool and EVERYONE knows it.

[Muddy Waters Guitar]

162. Most Democrats I know are Caucasian and are furious at Hillary's campaign for this

It's driving not just African-Americans, but all Democrats with conscience away not only from Hillary, but the party. What should be an inspirational contest, is being sullied by the Clintons' tactics.

[Big Blue Marble]

194. All of us are paying attention to this and it is tragic for our

Democratic Coalition. The Clinton Cluster is banking that we will have no where
to go but back to her. No me. I voted for Bill twice. I am done.

[William769]

3. Hey Hillary! When did you say this?

[jefferson_dem]

10. That's what I would like to find out.

Did she tell her people to launch into these disgusting, bigoted, racist, attacks or did she simply create an envivornment whereby they feel free to do it on their own?

Let's hope the press asks her.

Either way, she should be held accountable.

[Occam Bandage]

4. I hope it isn't just Blacks who pick up on this disgusting tactic.

[Muddy Waters Guitar]

184. It's getting worse, much, MUCH worse

It's definitely a broad cross-section of the public that's picking up on this, and the problem is the pattern that's been forming-- not just one off-color remark but 6, count 'em "6" statements with either openly racist or cryptoracist undertones from the Hillary campaign, plus a lot of the "code words" which are designed to marginalize Obama as "the Black candidate," like someone said, rather than a unifying candidate who happens to be Black.

They were discussing this on a Black radio station recently and the rage was so intense, the host had to almost shut the program down temporarily (around Memphis IIRC).

Folks, look, looking at the big picture here-- beyond just the 2008 election, the Clintons have effectively endangered the survival of our entire coalition, one that's held solid now for about 8 decades. Nominating Hillary would ice it and possibly be the nail in our party's coffin. I'm personally leaning toward Edwards, but I would be in favor of Obama if he turns out to be the most viable candidate. But the Clintons may well be managing to destroy our party here!

[MethuenProgressive]

5. When will Obama call for an end to the email smear campaign against Hillary?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4020811&mesg_id=4020811

[annie1]

13. i was just thinking this. he better know how to leran how to manage these people...

if he's going to start whipping upset people into a frenzy over him then he's gonna find out that they're quickly turn into a nasty mob.

[Occam Bandage]

29. Yes, Obama better start learning how to manage freepers.

:eyes:

[madrchsod]

21. do you have proof these came from obama`s staff

i mean real documented proof?

[0007]

34. I don't think so!

The person ask for links but never produces or come with anything except contempt and agitation. In fact that's the game with the wryly one.

[Occam Bandage]

28. No evidence those came out of his camp. In fact, those look like freeper shit to me.

[Muddy Waters Guitar]

115. Agree

Check out the tone and convenient slips of logic that dot Freepers posts. These have Freeper written all over them.

[MethuenProgressive]

32. They're all anti-Hillary, so they must be directly from Obama himself.

Using ObamaNation's "logic" that is.

[ellacott]

84. If these came from those who are in his camp you might have a point

[moriah]

33. Is it Obama or the Repugs responsible there?

I'm a Hillary supporter but I'm not going to say that Edwards OR Obama are responsible for those kind of smears.

They've been happening a long time -- and I think it is the Repugs you can thank, not Obama or Edwards or any other Democrat.

[Imagevision]

8. Hell no! you don't have to be black to pick up on Clinton camp racist crap...

[Barack_America]

9. It will be discussed amongst whites as well...

We're not putting up with that bullshit either.

That comment has me so pissed off right now that I'm pulling a Hillary and am nearly on the verge of tears.

[Dawgs]

12. But your tears are real.

[Bread and Circus]

11. I'm white and pale as a ghost, I live in whitebread America...

and I find it immensely offensive. I find the dissing of MLK, one of America's greatest heroes ever, by her personally, was beyond offensive.

Hillary cannot allow her surrogates to act like this without making comment denouncing them and encouraging her election machine to knock it off.

And as for Bill calling Obama "a fairy tale", yeah.... that was really poor taste too.

[Karenina]

124. They got invited to the Bilderberg BIG WHITE HOUSE.

Heart attacks change people. ALL BETS ARE OFF.

[Tarc]

14. Playing the race card

is a sure sign of desperation in the Obama camp. Seems like some a little worried if New Hampshire decided that he isn't the anointed one, and that he cannot walk on water, more may follow suit.

[wndycty]

16. Typical racist post. The Clinton camp uses racism, Obama supporters respond. . .

. . .and we are accused of playing the race card. Typical, very fucking typical.

[Tarc]

31. There is no racism here, son

Either in the Obama camp or the Hillary camp. Just sycophants who will stoop to whatever level possible, and use whatever cheap tactics available (i.e. the race card) to prop their chosen candidate up.

If you seriously think that there is racism in the Clinton campaign, then you are one very dim bulb.

[wndycty]

36. Me and MILLIONS OF OTHER BLACK FOLK!

Go ahead call us dim bulbs, I expect that from someone like you.

[Tarc]

40. Is that all you can muster?

Go let out your faux outrage on someone who cares. It is about as genuine as Hillary's tears were.

[Nedsdag]

111. So you admit that Hillary was faking it?

Whoa! That's interesting!

[Rockholm]

171. What about Donnie McGluckin?

Or whatever his homophobic name is.

[cloudythescribbler]

176. As I noted elsewhere, Obama SHARPLY distinguished himself from McClurkin -- QUITE IN CONTRAST TO HRC

[Rockholm]

177. I don't believe that is true.

[cloudythescribbler]

180. Here, I even found the LINK for 'ya ... and all others harping on the McClurkin thing

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=221x62898

All the info on this point that you need is here in this discussion.....

[Rockholm]

182. Honey, there about 50 threads on this subject.

You'll need to do much better than this.
McClurkin is a homophobe, plain and simple. Obama should have never have teamed up with this worthless POS.
This, of course, is my opinion.

[JVS]

52. son?

[Essene]

71. hey, at least he didnt say "boy," right?

sigh

[wndycty]

83. Right, I feel so much better

:kick:

[jefferson_dem]

78. Dim bulb? Son?

The tone is unmistakable.

[Mythsaje]

18. It was a very racist statement.

No way to spin it away. None.

[Dawgs]

25. Wow, ignoring racist comments to attack the person who was discriminated against.

I thought I've seen everything on DU. This might be the worst yet.

[Muddy Waters Guitar]

155. This on top of Hillary's trashing of MLK's legacy

shows the Clintons truly have lost their bearings. They are no longer fit to represent the Democratic Party or our principles.

[Barack_America]

160. Personally, I see Cuomo's backtracking and calling Obama...

a "beautiful symbol" to be exactly what Hillary was saying about MLK, a beautiful, but ultimately ineffective symbol.

If that is the Clinton campaign line, then fuck them.

[Muddy Waters Guitar]

166. Very perceptive

I didn't catch that initially, but Cuomo's non-apology and his choice of words are very much in line with Hillary's slight of MLK. The Clintons truly won't stop at anything to smear their opponents in the primaries.

[goldcanyonaz]

64. Exactly, and they're pissing off a lot of black people by doing it, myself included.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

75. LOL

[Muddy Waters Guitar]

185. This is leading to a very large number of Democratic voters

now pledging not to vote for Hillary under any circumstances. This is just not something we can countenance for the viability of our movement.

[returnable]

94. So your position is "shuck and jive" isn't a racist comment?

Good to know where you stand. If only all racists were as forthcoming.

[Rockholm]

170. Where are Al Sharpton and Jessee Jackson?

This is about the time they appear.

[Mythsaje]

15. It was a TREMENDOUSLY stupid thing to say.

Almost to the point of deliberate sabotage.

[Muddy Waters Guitar]

114. and damaging to the Democratic Party

for the first time in possibly 80 years, we are in danger of losing the broad support of African-Americans that we've taken largely for granted.

[creeksneakers2]

153. I don't see how one offensive comment can do that

That would have to be weighed against the whole of the party that has a black in front runner status. That should count for more than what some idiot says.

[Muddy Waters Guitar]

157. It's more than just Cuomo's comment

it's also the way that Hillary has belittled MLK's legacy, Bill Clinton's childish attacks on Obama, all the allegations of drug-dealing, and many other Swift-Boat attacks that make Karl Rove seem like a Boy Scout in comparison.

[creeksneakers2]

159. That would explain not liking the Clintons

I'm thinking of switching to Obama myself because I don't like the dirty tactics the Clintons are using. That doesn't mean I agree with your characterizations of what was said.

I don't see how things the Clintons said can be attributed to the entire Democratic Party though.

[Muddy Waters Guitar]

183. I agree, but it's not a matter of generalized attribution to the party

It's more the effect that perceived party representatives such as the Clintons-- whether the perception is fair or not-- have on the party when they make statements that are seen as so insulting and disparaging to African-Americans. That's more damaging to us than anything the Rethugs could throw at us, and much more lasting in its awful effects.

[Karenina]

121. Bingo!

[Muddy Waters Guitar]

191. The drug-dealer and Muslim Manchurian candidate remarks

were by far the most racist of all. Some of the comments were borderline racist or perhaps slips of the tongue. Openly insinuating that Obama might be taken for a drug dealer or a Muslim terrorist is full-out racist.

[hedgehog]

195. I posted when I first read Andrew Cuomo's comment that I thought it was

very subtle pay back for something that Bill Clinton did in 1992. Mario Cuomo would have swept the primaries and taken the White House if he'd run that year. I've always thought he withdrew from the race to protect his family from threatened slander.

[madrchsod]

17. hey the east coast finally realized that chicago was a real place!

digging up the rezko story which is what-almost two years old. i think this story has been investigated to the max by the media here...but unless it`s the times and abc news i just happened.

as for hillary`s crew....bring it on!

[wndycty]

19. We can throw elbows and set picks with the best of them . . .

. . .in Chicago we don't stab you in the back, we will stab you in the front!

[madrchsod]

23. ya...it`s the polite thing to do....

[Muddy Waters Guitar]

189. FWIW Chicago is perhaps my most admired city in the USA

IMHO as Carl Sandburg wrote, Chicago really is The City that Works, a multiracial, multiethnic metropolis with both manufacturing excellence and high-tech prowess, in which people work wonderfully together. If most American cities were like Chicago, we'd be an outstanding nation.

[Adelante]

20. Oop, wndy's pissed

I agree, it's been a pattern since the summer. I hate that I think this, but I do.

[wndycty]

22. Yes its a goddamned pattern and I'm pissed when Obama folks are

accused of playing the race card when the Clinton's are using racial code words, I really get pissed.

[BootinUp]

24. Is someone going to tell us wtf you are talking about? nt

[MethuenProgressive]

26. Obama's staff is combing everything ever said by anybody who ever met a Clinton to find...

anything at all they can frame as racist so they can throw a hissyfit over it.

[Occam Bandage]

30. Or rather, the Clinton camp is saying these to the media.

[Tarc]

39. Or rather

the nuttiest fringe of the Obama camp(most of them are rather normal, thankfully) are taking extremely cheap and fraudulent shots.

[hughee99]

79. Or you could say that Obama's staff is doing the "spade work"

necessary for opposition research.

[MethuenProgressive]

92. :groan:

At least you didn't say 'black ops'...

[jefferson_dem]

80. Do you not have a problem with the Hillary's surrogate referring to Obama's "shuck and jive"?

:shrug:

[MethuenProgressive]

91. Every person who ever met a Clinton is a "Hillary's surrogate"?

Gad. According to you, I'm a Hillary surrogate too!

[cloudythescribbler]

178. No, troll, these are NATIONALLY KNOWN LEADING FIGURES for HRC

The argument is like the nonsense about how the only issue in NH is that HRC won the primary over Obama, as if there weren't anything in the final AND THE EXIT polls diverging from the reported results to even arouse suspicion.

By the way, this method of perverting someone else's argument in order to slap it down is an old one -- it's used all the time by US courts.

[wndycty]

27. Here you go

A prominent New York Clinton supporter, Attorney General Andrew Cuomo, on how Hillary beat Obama in New Hampshire by beating him at retail politics:

”It’s not a TV-crazed race. Frankly you can’t buy your way into it,” Cuomo said. “You can’t shuck and jive at a press conference,” he added. “All those moves you can make with the press don’t work when you’re in someone’s living room.”

(Cassell's attributes the phrase to a racial, if not racist, origin.)

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0108/Dept_of_word_choice.html

[BootinUp]

35. Seems like you are getting a little hot

over a pretty minor thing to me. But so be it.

[wndycty]

38. Oh so racism is a very minor thing? As word of this spreads throughout the . . .

...Black community you will see how "minor" it is.

[BootinUp]

43. the comment is in the gray area

but I don't read it is racism in the context. Racism is in the intent not just the words. Many words are not in the gray area on the other hand.

[wndycty]

48. Of course its in the grey area to you. 1) you are spinning for your candidate and 2) you aren't...

. . .aren't Black. You are better off trying to convince me that Hillary doesn't support the comment, as opposed to trying to convince me it was not racist.

[BootinUp]

50. I gave you and any other readers my opinion

I am not surprised it didn't convince you, but its still my opinion, and your response to me is nothing but a personal attack btw. :thumbsdown:

[wndycty]

55. Personal attack? And I'm accused of being sensitive?

Oh the hypocrisy!

[BootinUp]

59. Mental jumping jacks?

I object to your claim I was just 1) spinning and 2) Unable to have a valid opinion on racism because of my skin color.

Have your last say, I won't bump this overhyped thread anymore.

[wndycty]

63. LOL

:kick:

[Tarc]

44. I think we'll bookmark this thread

and come back in a few weeks and see just how much the pseudo-outrage really amounted to.

[wndycty]

46. Go right ahead. . .

:kick:

[Muddy Waters Guitar]

187. Or real, intense, damaging, visceral outrage

Like the evidence right in front of you. Take a look.

[Muddy Waters Guitar]

186. Jim, this isn't minor

I'd go and suggest you turn on a Black radio station, they've nearly had to shut some of the programs down due to the rage this has inspired.

[incapsulated]

126. Andrew Cuomo does not work for her campaign AND

You left this out:

UPDATE: Though the report I link refers specifically to New Hampshire, Cuomo called to play the tape of the interview, in which he says nice things about Obama, and in which the quote above is describing both Iowa and New Hampshire — meaning it's not a direct reference to Clinton's primary victory, or attempt to explain it — that is, he's talking about the primary process in general, not Obama in particular.

"Barack Obama is a beautiful symbol. He's a powerful speaker. He's a charismatic figure. And what he has to say is important for the Democrats," Cuomo says in the interview, with the New York Post's Fred

"It was never about Obama in the first place," Cuomo told me of the use of the phrase, which he said he was using "as a synonym for 'bob and weave.'"



Is just being a supporter enough to attribute anything you say directly to Hillary's mouth, now?

[Tess99]

41. I will be calling into black radio today and tomorrow

Tom Joyner, Michael Baisden, Warren Ballentine, all of them. I suspect this will be all over the black blogoshere by this evening.

I have lost all respect for Bill and Hillary Clinton. They just love us black folk....as long as we know our place. I see it everyday, black people are waking up and seeing that these just aren't meaningless incidents. This is a systematic effort to use Sen. Obama's race to bring him down. Just as there has been a concerted effort to paint Hillary as a picture of innocent white female victimhood. I and disgusted by these people. I am disgusted with white liberals and their efforts to defend these disgusting attacks. I am disgusted with the Democratic party.

I can barely type I am so angry and upset about what they are doing to this wonderful, brillant, kind, idealistic black man who could be president less than 50 years since me and mine have been able to vote without our lives being threatened.

I am just disgusted and I will be changing my registration to Independent after I vote in my primary. I suggest other black democrats do the same. It is time for us to leave this party whose leaders and followers have decided to embrace a racist past it claimed to have left behind.

I'm done with the Clintons and I'm done with white liberals. I am disgusted.

[ieoeja]

95. Why are you disgusted with me? n/t

[BluegrassDem]

138. Tess, you summed up my feelings perfectly!!

I couldn't agree with you more. And this is coming from a black guy that about got into fights defending the Clintons in the 90's! I'm so sick of them. I'm over them and I'm over white liberals too. They can be just as racist as conservatives. The one good thing about Obama running is that we are seeing the true colors of supposed white liberals. They love you so long as you don't challenge them from power.

[JohnnyLib2]

142. How did the talk radio go today?

(I've been at work, asking Thurs. p.m.)

[creeksneakers2]

154. What about all the white liberals who are voting for Obama?

And why blame the Clintons for this?

[Essene]

45. The Clinton Smear Campaign (Facts & Sources)

Add the Cuomo comment to the growing list...


### He's likely to get assassinated. Yes, somebody who introduced Hillary Clinton emphasized the comparison with JFK and how he got killed. “Some people compare one of the other candidates to John F. Kennedy. But he was assassinated." The Clinton admin distanced themselves from his comments, calling them inappropriate, but the damage was done. http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/07/civilrights/

### He's no MLK. She dissed MLK first of all, suggesting REAL change only happened because of President Johnson not MLK's dream. She then implied that he doesn't remotely compare to MLK or Kennedy. "“You know, today Senator Obama used President John F. Kennedy and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. to criticize me. He basically compared himself to our greatest heroes because they gave great speeches." Think about what she's actually saying. Sad. http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/07/civilrights/

### Al qaeda will strike!! "Look what happened in Great Britain," she said. "Tony Blair leaves, Gordon Brown comes in, the very next day, there are terrorist attacks... So you've got to be prepared on Day One with everything ready to go." Sorry, but that's a disgraceful comment, directly suggesting terrorist will strike with the election of Obama. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0801/05/cnr.06.html

### Flip flopper. Just watch the ABC debate from 1/5/08. She repeated this charge in various ways, although in fairness she did get into specifics in a few cases (which i think is fair game if you challenge the record itself on the issues). However, for a couple months... this has been her primary charge against him. http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=4092530

### Male chuavanism and the gender card. Folks may reasonably disagree on the interpretation, but she's clearly playing the gender card lately - even implied that her gender alone equates to meaningful change in the White House (just imagine the outcry if Obama said that about being black). She said that in the 1/5/08 debate. Similarly, the spin out of NH is that his comment was rude and poor Hillary's being beaten up on by the boys *tear*. That's how i intepret this spin, and it seems very clear to me. And if you question her crying about her campaign hardships, she implies THAT is male chuavanism too. http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=4092530 & http://bourbonroom.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/01/07/clintons-candid-assessment/

And additionally... i'd like to just focus on this clip from the NH Debate. She was attacked on the issue of likability. She joked that he's likable. He DEFENDED HER in return. She even says "i appreciate that," yet all the Clinton spin doctors (and Rove) are trying to pretend he attacked her. Watch for yourself and be honest. These 2 were just handling an obnoxious question with grace, but now the Clinton base is trying to turn this into a chuavanistic attack by him? Get real. Watch it. It was friendly. http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ac7RuzYvtCw

### Bush V2. "He’s very likable . I agree with that…. You know, in 2000 we, unfortunately, ended up with a president who people said they wanted to have a beer with." “I think it’s good to have a likeable president. But if I remember right, many people said they wanted to have a beer with George W. Bush. Maybe they should’ve left it at that – have a beer, don’t vote him in as our president.” It's a slick way to deflect the likability argument, but she even tries to imply this has policy implications, electing an inexperienced guy just because he's likable.

### False hope. "An untested man who offers false hope." "We don't need to be raising the false hopes of our country about what can be delivered." Clinton herself said this. http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/Story?id=4088317&page=1 & http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2008_01/012851.php

### Obama lacks depth and reality. "On a lot of these issues it is hard to know where he stands, and people need to ask that." "As famously was said years ago, 'Where's the beef?'" Clinton said that herself. http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/story?id=4088317&page=1

### Obama is soft on crime. "Mandatory minimums take too much discretion away from judges." "Barack Obama's kind of change is where you sit down and you cut a deal with the corporate world." http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/story?id=4088317&page=1 & http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/04/hillary-hits-obama-for-op_n_79918.html

### Obama is just poetry. She's been stumping with comments about how he's just talking poetry and she's ready to govern with prose. Cute. " a doer, not a talker." http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080107/ap_on_el_pr/democrats_rdp

### Obama is just a fairy tale. Bill Clinton's rant the other day that i think shocked more than a few of us. Clinton flat out called Obama a liar, said he was a fairy tale. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLDx4NZr2u4

### Obama is in this still because of blind media. Bill Clinton also suggested it was "wrong" that Obama has been able to get through 15 debates without being called a liar by the press. He implies the blind, uncritical media is the problem. "The press never reported on" yadda yadda. "Give me a break!" He thought Hillary was going to lose NH and was basically blaming the media for this "fairy tale." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLDx4NZr2u4

### Obama is too conservative. They claimed he was "unwilling to take a stand on choice." His controversial gay marriage position is a legitimate issue, for sure, but they've tried to paint him as too conservative. http://tpmelectioncentral.com/2008/01/hillary_mailer_hits_obama_on_abortion.php

### Muslim extremist. Several Clinton campaign folks were removed over this. One may argue this absolves her from responsibility, yet anybody paying attention realizes this smear is arguably one of higher impact ones. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/12/10/second-clinton-volunteer-_n_76047.html

### Drug record makes him unelectable. Top Clinton advisor steps down after making various arguments about how Obama can't get elected due to his drug use. http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/13/clinton.obama/

### Obama is too liberal. "Hillary's aides point to Obama's extremely progressive record as a community organizer, state senator and candidate for Congress, his alliances with 'left-wing' intellectuals in Chicago's Hyde Park community, and his liberal voting record on criminal defendants' rights as subjects for examination." http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/04/new-hampshire-will-be-key_n_79873.html

[Essene]

51. On the "racism" charge against Cuomo (RANT)

The words themselves do not have to be either explicitly "racist," or even be intended for harm, in order for statements to imply racism.

Racism isn't merely a question of bad intention.

It's the look in a child's eye when they hear somebody subtly implies the world doesn't offer them the same hopes and dreams as another child. It's the unspoken historical weight carried by many of our words, our arguments and our delusions of a real meritocracy.

It's the power structure that subconsciously allows an Attorney General for the State of New York to say something so incredibly insensitive and directed at black candidate for President of the United States.

Cuomo is likely to state he meant no harm and poorly picked his words. Mea culpa.

Clinton will have operatives deflecting any ties to her campaign. She may herself comment on his bad choice of words... but the truth is... what he said is PRECISELY the message she's been conveying to the voters.

[wndycty]

53. "Cuomo is likely to state he meant no harm" and he should be asked would he . . .

. . .have used those words to discuss John Edwards. . .simply put.

[Essene]

60. fair point.

For all we know, he uses that term generally.

It doesn't matter. It's the insensitivity of using it in the context of THIS campaign.

[wndycty]

67. Well I doubt he would use those words to describe Edwards. . .

. . .seriously doubt it.

[Essene]

69. agreed

[hedgehog]

196. A New Yorker using the term "shuck and Jive" frequently? No way.

On edit: I remember my mother using it occasionaly as a disparaging term (she applied it to whites: Republicans and certain of her supervisors.) I have never used it. My children are unfamilar with the phrase.

[JohnnyLib2]

61. "unspoken historical weight" -- for damn sure.

Thank you for stating that so clearly.

I can't quite accept the direct link to HRC, but the only appropriate course would be a sharp denunciation by her, IMO.

(and yes, I'm a Clinton supporter)

[Essene]

68. She has to change course and message

The problem is that what he said EXACTLY reflects the overall attack on him by her Campaign.

She's going to blow up both of their campaigns by the time South Carolina hits, and turn off a TON of the voters with airways filled with people arguing about race relations and such. This is poisoning the water.

And it's her fault.

She cant just say Cuomo was wrong at this point. She has to UNDO all the non-sense coming out of her camp about MLK, about false hope, about his being "just poetry," about him being merely a fairy tale.

They've gone way over the line...

[madrchsod]

54. ohhhh that last one....

she just let those people throw her work on the south side of chicago under the bus. maybe it`s easy to forget your roots when it may not been real to begin with. some white people have soul and other`s don`t. i guess hillary never got the holy ghost spirit...

[Barack_America]

47. On edit, I'm fucking livid too! So I donated to Obama!

It's the only thing I could think to do...besides kick and scream and rant on here.

But EVERYONE I know will know what Cuomo said, I guarantee you that!

[madrchsod]

49. one of the worse examples of this shit can be found on "hillary is 44".

i`ve read code words that i have`t heard since i was a kid 45 years ago.

"smiling faces" who ever wrote that song sure knew what they were talking about.

[MethuenProgressive]

56. Link to the bit on that blog you refer to?

[Alizaryn]

72. Here is the one discussion thast I've seen ...

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/1/10/121356/396/20/432207

[MethuenProgressive]

74. Thanks, but I wanted mad to provide a link to what he said was on Hillis44.

Thank you, though.

[madrchsod]

105. i`ll get to it it`s going to take some searching

from two months ago...

[madrchsod]

109. do to time and a tad bit over reaction

i retract that accusation

[rodeodance]

57. IP's such as this are sickening. Buying into this crap and passing it on is what it represents!

[rodeodance]

58. In other words--the IP is nothing but a Hil hit piece.

[Bitwit1234]

62. I am going to go back and list each and every single dirty filthy lie

Obama and his supporters are making about Hillary. Every single time some thing shows up the press that the doodle boppers don't like about Obmama they blame Hillary...they are full of bullshit and they know it...but then when he is supported by the dimwits of the world what can we expect.

[wndycty]

65. Have fun making that list

:kick:

[Essene]

66. id be eager to see this list

I'm sure it will TOTALLY justify all this stuff from the Clinton camp.

[City Lights]

108. How's that list comin'?

[Nedsdag]

112. What lies?

What are you talking about?

Put the Kool-Aid down and take a deep breath, will ya?

[goldcanyonaz]

70. It's bullshit to blame Clinton for this, but par for the course around here.

[JohnnyLib2]

76. Clinton supporter here, disagreeing with ya.

She needs to act on this forcefully. For her campaign, for the greater good. I think she can -- we'll see. :shrug:

[wndycty]

82. Yes and thank you. . .as the person who started this thread let me tell you . . .

. . .where my anger comes from:

1) Its racist

2) I would expect this from Republicans

3) I want Barack to win, I don't hate the Clintons, and I believed I can support Hillary if she got the nomination, but my opinion of them has taken a major hit. I doubt I would ever support a GOP candidate and will still vote for Hillary if she gets the nomination, but I wouldn't be nearly as excited about it as I thought I would be.

[Essene]

96. she has to undo the comments about MLK, false hope, fairy tale, etc

The full force of the various attacks from the CLinton campaign add up to basically the same outcome as Cuomo's statement.

1. MLK's dream wasnt much without a (white) President making civil rights happen. Yea, she said that.

2. Obama isnt even on par with MLK.

3. Obama offers false hope

4. Obama is a fairy tale crafted thanks to an uncritical media

5. Obama has no substance, just poetry and fancy talk


That's the message STRAIGHT OUT OF CLINTON HQ, not to mention the insane stuff out of her wider camp.

She cannot undo the "shuck and jive" comment and damage, without fundamentally changing her tone and course. She's already on the record saying stuff that is just outlandish and an insult to civil rights history.

It's truly mind-boggling.

[annie1]

141. Fairy tale is correct. False hope, why does she have to undo that?...

etc. What is wrong with the fact that people here are ranting her war vote and ignoring that the only reason we don't know what he would have done is b/c he said himself he didn't know AND he wasn't in the senate at the time.

what is wrong with reality?

[Bluerthanblue]

145. you are getting your talking points directly from Bill I see- you might

want to include the full statement by Obama- and the context in which he spoke them-

We don't like it when * manipulates words to make them fit his agenda- we shouldn't be copying him.

What you are stating isn't reality- it is gossip and twisted hear-say.

:shrug:

[vee]

73. Between now and

the next few months be prepared cause you will be hearing
lots of Willie Horton, brown paper bag, shuckin n' jivin' crap all
designed for the sole purpose of subtly sparking the
flicker of racism that resides in all of us.

Just douse the inflamers with a cool level headed response and
we won't have a raging racially sparked blaze to contend with.

This is the archaic racially based politics of the past that
will ultimately have the reverse effect that its perpetrators intended.

[wndycty]

77. I expect that BS from the GOP in a general election but to deal with this BS from other Democrats

. . .in a primary is very disheartening.

[vee]

85. Some people

are aware of where we came from and the myriad of racial
issues and divisions we have had in this country,
and wish to continually move forward in progress.

Others wanna go back, and they are in both parties.
Thankfully for us the positive thinkers far out weigh
the negative ones.

[workinclasszero]

86. The Rethugs are laughing...

..no doubt.:cry:

[William769]

81. You mean like the cackle?

[FrenchieCat]

89. was a "cakle" comment spoken by Obama or his surrogates' mouth?

Didn't think so.

[William769]

90. Did Hillary make a racist statement?

I didn't think so.

[Essene]

97. Her attack on MLK and the idea of "having a dream" certainly was

Combine these statements with common sense.

1. “Dr. King’s dream began to be realized when President Johnson passed the Civil Rights Act.” - Hillary

2. “It took a president to get it done.” - Hillary

3. "Senator Obama used President John F. Kennedy and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. to criticize me. He basically compared himself to our greatest heroes because they gave great speeches." - Hillary

4. "We don't need to be raising the false hopes of our country about what can be delivered." - Hillary

5. " a doer, not a talker."

6. "As famously was said years ago, 'Where's the beef?'"

Put it together.

Obama is a smooth talking brother who has no substance. He's a fairy tale emerging out of a media that's scared to ask him questions. Even MLK's dream wasn't enough. It took action by a (white) President to BEGIN realizing this dream. Speeches and fancy talk don't matter. You need a doer, not a talker. He's no MLK, anyways. All Obama offers is fancy talk and false hopes.

She surely isn't attacking him on substance... and is flat out attacking him on his style, which is decidedly grounded in black, christian, civil rights oration.

It may not be EXPLICITLY racist, but in terms of the societal power dynamics it surely is. This would be like the Republicans attacking her by slandering women's rights, attacking her style as a strong woman and then implying she is a failed feminist.

[William769]

98. What bullshit.

It was MLK who put Hillary on the path to where she is today. Know your history.

[Essene]

102. Spare me the lectures. Look at the disgraceful things she's saying...

And again... spare me the lectures on history. Don't go there.

Her statements paint a very clear logic.



You need a doer (a President, like Johnson or her)... not a talker (like MLK and the weaker Obama).

[William769]

107. Give links for context, then we will talk.

And disect what was said.

[Essene]

193. i tried... and DU staff systematically deleted them all, actually

i havent followed the last day of events, but this was my record before then...

SMEAR FACT CHECK: Hillary's attacks on Obama

### Clinton aids confirm race baiting agenda

It isnt a direct quote and it's the Guardian after-all, but it's on record. "Aides believe that, combined with a surge of support among women, Clinton's 'crying' incident, and the possible role of race in bringing white voters to the New York senator's side, they see the makings of a reconfigured strategy to carry the campaign forward." http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/11/as-new-hampshire-dust-set_n_81159.html

### He's likely to get assassinated.

Somebody who introduced Hillary Clinton emphasized the comparison with JFK and how he got killed. “Some people compare one of the other candidates to John F. Kennedy. But he was assassinated." The Clinton admin distanced themselves from his comments, calling them inappropriate, but the damage was done. http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/07/civilrights/

### He's no MLK. And dreams need a President not speeches.

She dissed MLK, suggesting REAL change only happened because of President Johnson (not MLK's dream or the civil rights movement). She then implied that he doesn't remotely compare to MLK or Kennedy. "You know, today Senator Obama used President John F. Kennedy and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. to criticize me. He basically compared himself to our greatest heroes because they gave great speeches." Sad. http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/07/civilrights/

Think about it...

“Dr. King’s dream began to be realized when President Johnson passed the Civil Rights Act.” “It took a president to get it done.”

“You know, today Senator Obama used President John F. Kennedy and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. to criticize me. He basically compared himself to our greatest heroes because they gave great speeches. President Kennedy was in Congress for 14 years. He was a war hero. He was a man of great accomplishments and readiness to be president. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. led a movement. He was gassed. He was beaten. He was jailed. And he gave a speech that was one of the most beautifully, profoundly important speeches ever written in America, the “I have a dream” speech. And then he worked with President Johnson to get the civil rights laws passed, because the dream couldn’t be realized until finally it was legally permissible for people of all colors and backgrounds and races and ethnicities to be accepted as citizens."

Somebody remind Hillary that she supported Barry Goldwater back then... o.0

### Al qaeda will strike!!

"Look what happened in Great Britain," she said. "Tony Blair leaves, Gordon Brown comes in, the very next day, there are terrorist attacks... So you've got to be prepared on Day One with everything ready to go." Sorry, but that's a disgraceful comment, directly suggesting terrorist will strike with the election of Obama. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0801/05/cnr.06.html

### Flip flopper (abortion swiftboating)

Just watch the ABC debate from 1/5/08. She repeated this charge in various ways, although in fairness she did get into specifics in a few cases (which i think is fair game if you challenge the record itself on the issues). However, for a couple months... this has been her primary charge against him. http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=4092530

However, when they intentionally distorted his record on abortion to effectively swiftboat him in NH, that's really the kind of politics the democrats cannot afford in the primary. http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080106/NEWS01/801060396/1043

### The hip black male who can't provide

In the words of that Clinton adviser: "If you have a social need, you're with Hillary. If you want Obama to be your imaginary hip black friend and you're young and you have no social needs, then he's cool." http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,2238148,00.html

### False hope.

"An untested man who offers false hope." "We don't need to be raising the false hopes of our country about what can be delivered." Clinton herself said this. http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/Story?id=4088317&page=1 & http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2008_01/012851.php

### Obama just shucks and jives

Andrew Cuomo, NY Attorney General, and Clinton fan... came out swingin at Obama after NH primary. “You can’t shuck and jive at a press conference,” he added. “All those moves you can make with the press don’t work when you’re in someone’s living room.” http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0108/Dept_of_word_choice.html

### Hispanics won't vote for him

Clinton pollster Sergio Bendixen: “The Hispanic voter—and I want to say this very carefully—has not shown a lot of willingness or affinity to support black candidates.” http://thepage.time.com/2008/01/12/racial-tensions-a-potential-boost-for-clinton

### Obama is just poetry.

She's been stumping with comments about how he's just talking poetry and she's ready to govern with prose. Cute. " a doer, not a talker." http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080107/ap_on_el_pr/democrats_rdp

### Obama is just a fairy tale.

Bill Clinton's rant the other day that i think shocked more than a few of us. Clinton flat out called Obama a liar, said he was a fairy tale. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLDx4NZr2u4

### Obama is in this only because of blind media.

Bill Clinton also suggested it was "wrong" that Obama has been able to get through 15 debates without being called a liar by the press. He implies the blind, uncritical media is the problem. "The press never reported on" yadda yadda. "Give me a break!" He thought Hillary was going to lose NH and was basically blaming the media for this "fairy tale." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLDx4NZr2u4

### Obama lacks depth and reality.

"On a lot of these issues it is hard to know where he stands, and people need to ask that." "As famously was said years ago, 'Where's the beef?'" Clinton said that herself. In the context of the other smearing, this takes on racial overtones (onfortunately, because it otherwise is fair game). http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/story?id=4088317&page=1

### Muslim (danger danger!).

Several Clinton campaign folks were removed over this. One may argue this absolves her from responsibility, yet anybody paying attention realizes this smear is arguably one of higher impact ones. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/12/10/second-clinton-volunteer-_n_76047.html

But this is only wacky emails having nothing to do with Hillary's camp! Not like Bob Kerrey and others kept this issue alive in the public dialog or anything. http://themoderatevoice.com/religion/islam/muslims/16573/clinton-support-bob-kerry-continues-to-raise-obama-muslim-issues/

### Drug record makes him unelectable.

Top Clinton advisor steps down after making various arguments about how Obama can't get elected due to his drug use. In the context of all the other stuff, this most certainly has racial overtones and will be taken that way by many minorities. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/politics/2004077664_obama17.html

### Male chuavanism and the gender card.

Folks may reasonably disagree on the interpretation, but she's clearly playing the gender card lately - even implied that her gender alone equates to meaningful change in the White House (just imagine the outcry if Obama said that about being black). She said that in the 1/5/08 debate. Similarly, the spin out of NH is that his comment was rude and poor Hillary's being beaten up on by the boys *tear*. That's how i intepret this spin, and it seems very clear to me. And if you question her crying about her campaign hardships, she implies THAT is male chuavanism too. http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=4092530 & http://bourbonroom.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/01/07/clintons-candid-assessment/

And additionally... i'd like to just focus on this clip from the NH Debate. She was attacked on the issue of likability. She joked that he's likable. He DEFENDED HER in return. She even says "i appreciate that," yet all the Clinton spin doctors (and Rove) are trying to pretend he attacked her. Watch for yourself and be honest. These 2 were just handling an obnoxious question with grace, but now the Clinton base is trying to turn this into a chuavanistic attack by him? Get real. Watch it. It was friendly. http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ac7RuzYvtCw

Lying about a black man's "tone" towards a white woman is easy to get away with in 2008, I guess.

### Obama is Bush 3.0

"He’s very likable . I agree with that…. You know, in 2000 we, unfortunately, ended up with a president who people said they wanted to have a beer with." “I think it’s good to have a likeable president. But if I remember right, many people said they wanted to have a beer with George W. Bush. Maybe they should’ve left it at that – have a beer, don’t vote him in as our president.” It's a slick way to deflect the likability argument, but she even tries to imply this has policy implications, electing an inexperienced guy just because he's likable.

### Obama is too liberal.

"Hillary's aides point to Obama's extremely progressive record as a community organizer, state senator and candidate for Congress, his alliances with 'left-wing' intellectuals in Chicago's Hyde Park community, and his liberal voting record on criminal defendants' rights as subjects for examination." http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/04/new-hampshire-will-be-key_n_79873.html

### Obama is too conservative.

They claimed he was "unwilling to take a stand on choice." His controversial gay marriage position is a legitimate issue, for sure, but they've tried to paint him as too conservative. http://tpmelectioncentral.com/2008/01/hillary_mailer_hits_obama_on_abortion.php

### Obama is soft on crime.

"Mandatory minimums take too much discretion away from judges." "Barack Obama's kind of change is where you sit down and you cut a deal with the corporate world." All the attacks on his record now are going to be cast in racial terms, unfortunately. http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/story?id=4088317&page=1 & http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/04/hillary-hits-obama-for-op_n_79918.html

[creeksneakers2]

156. Some of those are dirty negative attacks but I don't see most

most of them as racist. Obama is a good talker and she's justified in calling for people to look at more than his charisma. I don't see anything racist about that. We said the same thing about Ronald Reagan a million times. I don't see anything racist about the takes a president quote either. It didn't say a "white" president. I don't know where that inference comes from. I don't know what she means by false hopes. She really ought to be more specific there. I do think its unrealistic for Obama to believe he can get cooperation from conservatives.

I am bothered by the fairy tale analogy. That implies that somehow Obama is someone who really doesn't belong in the big leagues and something like that could never happen in the real world. In other words, he's black, so he can't possibly be elected. That one sounds racist to me, but not the others.

[BringBigDogBack]

87. She's blown it with the black vote

a few times already... This is just a footnote at this point.

'False hopes'.

We'll see, Hill. :hi:

[vee]

88. There are just as many White/Yellow/Brown

voters that are just as put off by
subtle racist statements also. The problem of racism
effects the quality of life for all Americans.
It's not just a Black issue.

In this political arena, the sooner we can
immunize ourselves from it's destructive effects
the sooner we will be able to distinguish the best candidate
without the filter of race/prejudice to cloud our judgment.

[Essene]

93. Not quite yet... but if she doesnt change course, she's in trouble

These attacks on MLK, on Obama, on hope, on everything around him... are going to stir up a massive backlash.

That backlash could take down both her and Obama.

[Name removed]

122. Deleted message

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[moriah]

130. "Drug dealer"?

"Barak's a drug user and dealer"

If this wasn't Sarcasm, please provide your evidence that he ever dealt drugs.

[2rth2pwr]

99. This is ridiculous, Bill was our first Black President. nt

[Essene]

103. Hate to break it to ya... but that status is getting revoked now

[Karenina]

123. Sucking up to Poppy Bush

after Welfare Reform, NAFTA and Telecommunications just might get your card pulled...

[Muddy Waters Guitar]

100. How many bridges is Hillary planning to burn

with African-American voters before her campaign realizes how much damage is being done to her campaign, and the Democratic Party overall?

[wndycty]

101. I'm beginning to think they don't care

:kick:

[Essene]

104. certainly not when behind in the polls

[jlake]

113. When Obama renounces McClurkin, I will take these charges seriously.

[Name removed]

116. Deleted message

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[David Zephyr]

117. Don't worry, wndycty. This shit is going to backfire and backfire big.

Obama is going to win South Carolina in a very, very big way.

Obama will take Nevada as well.

And after those victories, Jimmy Carter will endorse Obama.

And then comes the bomb: Al Gore will endorse Obama right before the California Primary.

And then Obama is the nominee.

[Name removed]

119. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

120. Deleted sub-thread

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[Name removed]

128. Deleted message

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[Yuugal]

129. Welcome to DU!

I hope you get to read this before.............. well , never mind.

[moriah]

131. Again, evidence please...

.... that he ever did crack (there is a difference between crack and cocaine) and that he ever sold drugs.

Thank you.

[VotesForWomen]

165. yeah, just like the hysterical Hilary bashing will backfire. nt

[DivorcingNeo]

127. I'll have fun with this thread

Disclaimer: Do not read this if you lack a sense of humor. *raises a brow*

THE DNC: "Black boys and Girls...you WILL vote for Hillary Clinton! What other option do you really have?" *Diabolical laugh*

BLACK AMERICA: "Yes suh, yes suh, right away suh...I'm stepin and fetchin fo' ya boss!" *big ole grin*

:sarcasm:

[Catherine Vincent]

132. Xultar was right! nt

[xultar]

172. SHO NUFF.

[indimuse]

133. here have at it! There are 2 sides to RACISM..Why are WHITE people the ONLY Racist???

Is Barack Obama's Church Racist?
From the Trinity United Church of Christ web site:

Trinity United Church of Christ adopted the Black Value System written by the Manford Byrd Recognition Committee chaired by Vallmer Jordan in 1981. We believe in the following 12 precepts and covenantal statements. These Black Ethics must be taught and exemplified in homes, churches, nurseries and schools, wherever Blacks are gathered. They must reflect on the following concepts:

Commitment to God
Commitment to the Black Community
Commitment to the Black Family
Dedication to the Pursuit of Education
Dedication to the Pursuit of Excellence
Adherence to the Black Work Ethic
Commitment to Self-Discipline and Self-Respect
Disavowal of the Pursuit of "Middleclassness"
Pledge to make the fruits of all developing and acquired skills available to the Black Community
Pledge to Allocate Regularly, a Portion of Personal Resources for Strengthening and Supporting Black Institutions
Pledge allegiance to all Black leadership who espouse and embrace the Black Value System
Personal commitment to embracement of the Black Value System.
Do you think that if Mitt Romney's local church talked about the White Community, White Institutions, and the White Value System that it would have gotten more attention from the Liberal Media than this has? (via Marquette Warrior)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNTGRL0OJWQ&feature=related


Here is a link...it is a FOX/Hannity interview with Obama's Rev... You must really hear this and tell me this is not...a RACIST Segregated Church... WHAT IF ...WHAT IF...Hillary wnet to a Church that was Commitment to the WHITE Family
Pledge allegiance to all WHITE leadership who espouse and embrace the WHITE Value System
Personal commitment to embracement of the WHITE Value System.etc...


And when did this man EVER mention Christ?


Enough with this racist crap! There is plenty of Racist to go around!

[DivorcingNeo]

135. You are the biggest distortion hit person known to man...

No wait...there's some on here worst than you!

Tell me truly, what is wrong, after years (and presently) of disenfranchisement, mental beat down and suppression, with American black men and women attempting to lift (and fix) their broken families, neighborhoods and spirits?

Is this really about America or is this really about you and the Clintons?

Maybe you haven't noticed or heard but Black men, women and children are dying or being incarcerated in record numbers. What is wrong with Black Americans attempting to save themselves?

Or can we not act, think, speak or do anything without the hand and aide of the White American establishment?

Pathetic!

[indimuse]

136. Nothing wrong with any of what you said...

BUT...It's the double standard and all the SHIT about Hillary being a racist that has to stopped! How would you feel if she aligned herself with a church that was and CLAIMED Allegiance to WHITE America..White Progress..etc..EVERYBODY would be ALL over it! And why can't I get an answer ...? And do you think this subject will just disappear...Please explain..Is this a "Christian Church...Or not? Obama should just come out and explain Afrocentric because this is a New Religion A LOT of people are curious about.

And as far as your comment about being beat down and disenfranchised and broken families....I would say...WOMEN IN ALL CULTURES HAVE SUFFERED UNSPEAKABLE ATROCITIES....AND STILL DO...So my feeling is to lift ALL PEOPlE UP ...Whites...Blacks...Hispanics...Asian...Indains...GET IT!???

[DivorcingNeo]

143. True and...

"WOMEN IN ALL CULTURES HAVE SUFFERED UNSPEAKABLE ATROCITIES....AND STILL DO...So my feeling is to lift ALL PEOPlE UP ...Whites...Blacks...Hispanics...Asian...Indains...GET IT!???"

I have never denied or asserted other groups of women have not, but we are talking about America and there is not a bigger disenfranchised group of people in this country than Black Americans. Since you were addressing Senator Obama's (predominately black) church that is what I was specifically addressing. From the experience in this country of being a black woman.


Furthermore, in your last sentence, if that is your stance then (in my opinion) it is you who are backing the wrong candidate.

[indimuse]

149. I mean no disrespect to you or others..I get frustrated...

Again...I'm trying to understand this new doctrine. I wish somebody who attends this church would respond.:eyes:

[M0rpheus]

161. What is wrong with this?

We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian... Our roots in the Black religious experience and tradition are deep, lasting and permanent. We are an African people, and remain "true to our native land," the mother continent, the cradle of civilization. God has superintended our pilgrimage through the days of slavery, the days of segregation, and the long night of racism. It is God who gives us the strength and courage to continuously address injustice as a people, and as a congregation. We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expression of a Black worship service and ministries which address the Black Community.

The Pastor as well as the membership of Trinity United Church of Christ is committed to a 10-point Vision:

1. A congregation committed to ADORATION.
2. A congregation preaching SALVATION.
3. A congregation actively seeking RECONCILIATION.
4. A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA.
5. A congregation committed to BIBLICAL EDUCATION.
6. A congregation committed to CULTURAL EDUCATION.
7. A congregation committed to the HISTORICAL EDUCATION OF AFRICAN PEOPLE IN DIASPORA.
8. A congregation committed to LIBERATION.
9. A congregation committed to RESTORATION.
10. A congregation working towards ECONOMIC PARITY.


Disclaimer: *I am not a member but I have attended many services there.*

There's nothing new about attempting to uplift your own community.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with being proud of who you are, especially if that is the first thing people see and condemn you for.

He is a Christian BLACK MAN, who attends a BLACK CHURCH. A church which happens to have a commitment to it's congregation.
Right there on the corner of 95th and eggleston on the edge of the hood and a middle class neighborhood, someone is trying to make something better. No where does it say you aren't welcome. As a matter of fact, you might find it much better than your assumptions.

Would you complain about a Jew who attended Synagog? Or a Greek Orthodox who attended services in a Greek Orthodox church?
A Muslim who goes to Mosque?
There's no bigotry here. Just a bunch of people trying to be connected to God, and not ashamed of it.


Your intent may not have been disrespectful, but damn... Let's just say I was offended and leave it at that.

We can be our own people. We are entitled to our own experiences with God, and otherwise. Nothing to be ashamed of here.


Xultar was very right... http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2586801&mesg_id=2586801
{edited for removal of unnecessary inflammatory verbiage}

[KaptBunnyPants]

163. Reverse racism! Reverse racism!

How dare a black church talk about black issues. That's almost as bad as a Synagogue talking about Jewish issues! The link to Sean Hannity proves your point entirely!!!

[Alexander]

134. At DU, I learned Obama was a "crack dealer" at 14 who consorts with "gangsters"...

And people say there isn't any racism coming from the Clinton camp. :eyes:

[ileus]

137. Maybe GW isn't the only person that doens't like black people, as Mr. West once said.

[Barack_America]

147. Everybody likes black people.

As long they stay in their place and vote how they're expected to.

:sarcasm:

[annie1]

139. Little Cuomo is a tool, Kerrey meant no harm. And if Hil thought Cuomo was a biggot ...

who spoke about black people being sinners, would she put him on a tour, like Donnie McClurkin? No.

[ecstatic]

144. oh lord... PLEASE tell me she didn't use those words! nt

[BootinUp]

151. She didn't. Andrew Cuomo did

there was a suggestion he is a surrogate for her campaign but I have seen no evidence of that at all.

[cloudythescribbler]

179. Andrew Cuomo not just an ordinary HRC supporter, but a NATIONAL figure; and this is a PATTERN

THere is a PATTERN of these kinds of 'stirring of the pot' remarks from the HRC camp, including her own comment about LBJ and MLK.

As I've said elsewhere, it's nectar offered up as a 'bribe to the Gods' (who in THIS power elite, welcome it)

[peaches2003]

148. As always, anything for votes

The Clintons assume they will lose the black vote to Obama, so they are not above going after the racist vote.

[Diane R]

152. You bet they're doing it on purpose. And Carville is involved.

[KaptBunnyPants]

164. Hiring that slime is about as low as anyone can get.

[jackson_dem]

168. It does smell

Taken alone you can explain the comments away but when they begin to pile up it raises more questions. On top of what you listed Bill called Obama a "kid." We know what he meant but that must have rekindled memories of the Old South when African-American adults were called "boy." The Clinton camp must be careful about this are they may lose the substantial share of the African-American vote they still have.

[LittleClarkie]

173. Reminds me of when Bush sent out that story that McCain had a little black baby out of wedlock

when he'd actually adopted a child from India.

As Kerry said, we need someone who can end swiftboating, not perfect it.

[xultar]

174. PLEASE POST THE LINKS TO THE DISCUSSIONS ON THE BLACK BLOGS...AND NOT JUST THE ONE

Y'ALL ALL QUOTE FROM.

[cloudythescribbler]

175. Note the contrast with how Obama handled McClurkin, CLEARLY distinguishing his own position

And yet Obama still gets raked over the coals by a chorus of Obama-bashers on DU. Here there's a PATTERN, which includes at least some statements by HRC herself (like about MLK and LBJ). They are like nectar offered up as "bribery to the Gods"....

[Alexander]

188. Note also how the candidates' supporters deal with these issues...

Most Obama supporters at least concede that McClurkin was a dumb move, which it was.

Hillary's supporters offer only excuses ("Calling Obama a 'kid' isn't racist!!!1!!") or deflection ("Why didn't Obama vote on Kyl-Lieberman?").

[David Zephyr]

190. I'm still shaking my head from Andrew Cuomo's vulgar mouth.

I simply am stunned by what an ass he turned out to be. Well, there has been a lot of little "spontaneous" comments. Accidental? It's getting hard to believe anymore. K&R.

[AtomicKitten]

197. "Don't piss on our shoes and tell us its raining."

Sadly the denial is a pattern too.