In many ways, ironically enough, Obama reminds me of Clinton.

[Sparkly]

No, not Hillary Clinton -- Bill Clinton. In 1992, to be exact.

Remember slogans like "A place called Hope?" And "It's time for a change?"

But HRC really can't be, in NH, what her husband was back then. HE was the newcomer, the "change candidate," challenging the "status quo." In may ways, he was where Obama is now.

In fact, here's the text of Clinton's acceptance speech in 1992:

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton's_acceptance_speech_to_1992_Democratic_Convention

Check it out -- lots of similarities. For example:

"I have news for the forces of greed and the defenders of the status quo: Your time has come and gone. Its time for a change in America."

"Tonight every one of you knows deep in your heart that we are too divided. It is time to heal America."

"I want every person in this hall and every person in this land to reach out and join us in a great new adventure, to chart a bold new future."

Even his life story is a bit reminiscent -- the absent father, being raised by grandparents, seeing his mother fight cancer, and how all of this shaped his worldview. He was young and new to many voters.

I like both Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, in different ways for different reasons. (I still wish there were someone with the charisma and oratory skills of Obama or Dean, and the policies of Dennis Kucinich, and maybe the intellect and background of General Clark, all combined. Or I just wish Clark had won the nom last time.) But I think HRC is really in a difficult place, running against Obama right now, with so many decades of media attacks against her. People talk about "The Clintons" as though they were an institution; but if they are, it's an institution whose environment has changed over 15 years, putting it in a different place or perspective than it was.

I'm not sure how they'll go with is or how this will all play out.

Interesting times!

[The Magistrate]

1. An Excellent Point, Ma'am

Among the over-laps, too, is a demonstrated talent for splitting the difference, with the rounding going to the side he genuinely favors.

[Sparkly]

25. I am humbled, Sir!

:D

[MannyGoldstein]

2. That's Why HRC Was So Scared Of Him From The Start - But...

It immediately obvious to me in 1992 that Clinton was a nogoodnik.

In contrast, I get the feeling that Obama is honest.

Either Obama's the real deal, or he's a way-better prevaricator than Clinton.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

4. Hi Manny.

Are you feeling a tad better about Romney, these days?

MKJ

edit to add: :-)

[MannyGoldstein]

13. Oh Dear God Yes

He had the money to make sure that every last voter in Iowa could see he was a phony. I pray for a similar outcome in NH.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

35. I'm glad he did poorly and I'm keeping close watch.

Happy (belated) New Year, MG. :toast: MKJ

[MannyGoldstein]

50. Back At 'Ya

Let's hope that the new year brings a flourishing of Democratic principles!

[kelligesq]

3. Agreed-same keywords - hope - change - I thought the same -

imitating Bill.

[annie1]

6. except clinton was way more specific. if either hil or Obama would do that...

i think they would do so well. Bill used to say a problem, then state a solution, say a problem, then state a solution, continue x10. That's why bloomberg is bugging out and threatening to run, cuz no one's doing that. it's really odd.

[Cameron27]

5. Thank you,

that's fascinating. Interesting times indeed lol.

[JohnnyLib2]

7. Yup, many similarities. Maybe Clinton was more adept at

appealing across the age spectrum, though.

[The_Casual_Observer]

8. Perhaps he should learn something about "bipartisan" from the

the beating that Clinton proceeded to take for 8 fucking years from those bastards after all that feel-good bullshit.

"It is time to heal America." they will try to tear him into little pieces and feed him to dogs.

[Cameron27]

10. I don't want bipartisanship,

the RWers always take it as a sign of weakness and use it against us. I wish Obama would drop the whole red/blue togetherness thing.

[The_Casual_Observer]

14. It's his whole appeal to these "independents". It's pie in the sky

bullshit. It would stand a chance if the gop were anything like the Dems, but their not, they have everything to lose & nothing to gain.

[Adelante]

15. You see, that's one of the commonalities

Wes always talked the red/blue thing. But your other point -- agreed, the one and only.

[parasim]

19. After reading quite a few posts like yours today...

I've realized something. I really am starting to think that DU is just not the place for me to hang out. There seems to be so much hatred of people that don't think like us around here. It makes me think that there is absolutely no hope of this country ever healing from the divisiveness that the Bush admin has engrained in it.

and don't worry, if I ever decide to check out permanently from DU, I certainly won't let the door hit my ass on the way out.

[Sparkly]

22. I certainly hate what they've done.

I would LIKE to see something like what the Democrats did when they first took over the majority in Congress: they shut the GOP out, put their heads down, and didn't engage them until they'd done the work they wanted to get done. (Unfortunately, they didn't do nearly enough after that.)

I'd like to see a strong Democratic majority, and a Democratic president, set about REVERSING all the crap it's possible to reverse from the past eight years. I want them to pursue a Democratic agenda, dust off the Constitution and set it right, make amends to the rest of the world, get the hell out of Iraq, and pursue criminal charges against the Bush cabal.

After what the GOP did to them (and us, and everybody else), it'd be just a start toward getting back some balance.

[parasim]

34. Right. But when I think about bipartisanship ...

I'm not talking about Republican politicians, I think of reaching out to those who tend to vote Republican. The Republican politicians are assholes, but their voters are just misguided. I'm not one of those people that immediately condemn someone because they vote Republican, I try to convince them that a Democratic approach is better. That's why I feel that Obama's words ring true.

[Sparkly]

38. Oh -- I agree with that.

Some Republican voters are assholes, but yes -- many are misguided. And we HAVE to persuade them in order to win (especially to win by an unstealable margin!).

:thumbsup:

[The_Casual_Observer]

24. Perhaps you are unaware of the shit that was launched at

Clinton for 8 years? jr essentially had bipartisan for 8 years. Just wait until the power finally shifts back, it'll be a bloody mess.

[parasim]

40. No, Bush didn't have bipartisanship.

Politically, in Washington, perhaps. But but not amongst voters. Red vs Blue. "RePIGlicans" vs "DemoRATS". The divisiveness in this country, thanks to sites like this and Free Republic just love to pit citizens against one another. It's sick.

Oh, I am well aware of the 8 years of shit launched at Clinton, that's equally sick. But I hope that this country at some point will be able to advance enough to overcome such asinine, old school ways of thinking.

[The_Casual_Observer]

42. It'd be nice too if everyone behaved & we could save all the money

wasted on jails, police, prisons, courts and military. Keeping those bastards from returning this place to the "gilded age" is serious business.

[parasim]

44. That's why we need to reach across the aisle

and try to convince Republicans to vote Democratic. I've personally talked 3 die-hard Republicans to seriously consider voting Democrat. and it was not done by berating them.

[The_Casual_Observer]

45. "Reach out and touch somebody's hand"

"Make this world a better place, if you can!"

"I'd like to teach the world to sing in perfect harmony"
"I'd like to buy the world a coke and have them sing with me!"

Your new friends sustained jr's veto of the SCHIP program hours before Christmas. "It's the real thing"

[parasim]

46. My "new friends" had no idea what was going to happen...

when they voted for Bush. They do now, now that I've pointed all the absolute corrupt things that this administration and the Republican party has done in their name.

and their revelation to this didn't come from me sitting them down in a circle singing Kumbaya, it happened because I urged them to really look at what this admin, that they voted for, is now doing. I'm proud to say, I convinced them. Thy're now trying to decide between Edwards and Obama.

[Egnever]

27. I think you make a good point

One I have thought about often myself the last few months. I do want the administration held to account but I dont think that requires the scorched eath attitude so many here espouse.

[Cameron27]

31. The earth's already scorched by the

policies of this administration and it's republican syncophants. Do you seriously think that any one of them would seek bipartisanship if they weren't in a position of weakness? Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid have been demonized for trying to negotiate with them, why has it suddenly become a popular position?

[BeyondGeography]

17. Clinton governed at a much more difficult time in terms of partisanship

The Republicans felt entitled to the presidency, not least because Ross Perot soaked up nearly 20% of the popular vote. They also thought (and rightly) that Reagan had ushered in a whole new era of market-based solutions to everything and limited government. In fact, we are only just now at the end of the Reagan Revolution, which forced Clinton to play defense for eight years. He was a Democratic President whose most memorable pronouncement was "the era of big government is over." Whose most memorable pieces of legislation included business-friendly free trade agreements and welfare reform. Whose vice president spent his first year studying how to downsize government. They had to do all that crap just to survive politically.

Sixteen years later, we are in a different place. Americans are ready to be sold on the value of government, being overrun by a broken health care system, understanding that government needs to play a central role in energy strategy and climate change, feeling they are losing ground in the so-called ownership society, knowing that Washington has been privatized and corrupted by special interests and seeing the results of ineptitude in Iraq and in response to disasters like Katrina. If we can't build a working majority now, we never will be able to. An aggressive and confident approach to governing and coalition building is much more possible now than it was in 1992. The Reagan Revolution is over, and one of the problems with the Clintons is they don't even recognize it.

[The_Casual_Observer]

20. Right now, today, it takes 60 veto-proof senate votes to pass any meaningful

legislation. Don't sling any bullshit about it being more "kindler and gentler" these days.

[BeyondGeography]

36. Thank you for missing the point entirely

We will get to 60 votes BECAUSE the Republican Party is a spent force and the country is ready for our brand of change. Only, of course, if we have leadership that doesn't take the country back to a familiarly divided place.

You might want to wake up.

[The_Casual_Observer]

39. Sure, and it was safe to vote for Nader in 2000 just to make a

statement, because after all, jr & Gore were identical.

It's the same kind of pie-in-the-sky dreams of a new day that'll end you up in an Iraq occupation every time.


The hard core gop isn't going to be your friend, ever, and they are always going to right there ready to fuck you over at any opportunity.

[BeyondGeography]

41. They are shrinking

Did you even tune in last night? We outpolled them 2-to-1 in what used to be a 50/50 state. Opportunity knocks, as long as you're not too caught up in the last war.

[The_Casual_Observer]

43. It's nice to dream about a world that doesn't exist.

Except in the pages of an Obama speech.

[kelligesq]

21. Yep - you got that right. sorry to say but Obama's bipartisan bs

showws just how naive and unrealistic he is.

[Egnever]

28. I think his record shows

just the oposite and your statement just shows your ignorance of what he has done.

[kelligesq]

32. REally? Essentially Obama did what Hill & Cheney did. Invited the opponents

in, like the HMO's and drug companies, to water down his proposal until he could get something they would agree to - which did not do that much for THE PEOPLE. I think that's called SELLING OUT.

I'll ignore your comment about ignorance cuase now we know who is and isn't. :)

[Adelante]

9. Ironically enough

Obama reminds me of Clark in many ways, the wide world view, pragmatic idealism and strategic sense, the close-in approach to problem solving, which is actually what got me first interested even before I knew Wes wouldn't run. I have the sense about Obama's campaign that it is the kind of campaign Wes might have run a second time around. Obama at his age doesn't have the stature, I know, but he will. Oh well, I'll probably piss two groups off by saying all this - lol.

[Cameron27]

12. You don't piss me off,

but I don't agree lol. There's only one Wes Clark, and his lifetime experience is incomparable IMO.

[Sparkly]

16. “For all sad words of tongue and pen, The saddest are these, 'It might have been'.”

:cry: Don't get me started!!

[Sparkly]

23. You never piss me off, WesDem.

:pals:

[K Gardner]

11. Very nice memories of Bill there, thank you :-)

[Sparkly]

26. Quite something re-reading that speech, isn't it?

:)

[Quixote1818]

18. Lets hope Obama actually comes through though. Bill never did. nt

[laureloak]

29. Bill Clinton is a genius at communicating complicated

issues in simple terms. Obama has no such talent. I'm wondering if he has any talent other than making flowery speeches.

[depakid]

30. Can't disagree with that at all

Same sort of rhetoric.

And if by some miracle he wins the presidency, I anticipate the same sorts of results. Pandering to the far right, comromising away progressive policies, enabling corporatist agendas, all without the hope of turning the economy around, as Clinton seemed to do.

(To be fair- no one's going to be able to turn the economy around, though some will lessen the inevitable impacts better than others).

[Stop Cornyn]

33. Only see the similarity in their traingulation and centrist platforms

[kelligesq]

37. Yes. Obama centrist. Is he a member of the DLC? - must be.

That's Hillary and Bill's DLC centrist movement.

I dont like the DLC, and I dont like Centrist, so far to the right that it's what republicans used to be.

Centrist = ignore the democratic wing of the Democratic Party.

[FrenchieCat]

47. No, Obama is not a member of the DLC.....

But every other candidate running other than Kucinich once were or are.

[THUNDER HANDS]

48. what I see in Obama is what Clinton should have been

plus a hell of a lot more.

Obama is Mickey Mantle to Clinton's DiMaggio.

[mtnsnake]

49. Awesome post, Sparkly

...right from start to finish :thumbsup:

(I still wish there were someone with the charisma and oratory skills of Obama or Dean, and the policies of Dennis Kucinich, and maybe the intellect and background of General Clark, all combined. Or I just wish Clark had won the nom last time.)

Me too. I feel the same way about that and about everything else in your post, too. I can't believe this isn't on the Greatest Page yet.

[Justice]

51. I've often thought that if Bill had free choice to endorse anyone, it would be Obama