Are Edwards and Clinton REALLY finished? hmm... And what do YOU think?

[musicblind]

Tell me the truth, honestly, (not based on who you are supporting, but what you honestly believe) is Edwards finished, or can he maybe, sorta, kinda, fingers crossed ... bounce back and get the nomination?

And tell me, being honest, not trying to just because you love/hate Obama, do you think that Clinton and her machine can pull out a comeback and take the nodd?


There are a lot of states left to go, and the debates on Saturday.


I like both Edwards and Clinton, (and I don't at all hate Obama and will fight for him if he is the nomination) but what do think? Is it possible? Can they do it? Honestly?

[NYCGirl]

1. This is only the first lap of a long race. Chill. NT

[SaveElmer]

2. Hillary on the ropes...Edwards done...nt

[TwilightGardener]

3. They're finished. Obama's victory was a big signal--he is where all

the excitement is in this election.

[krabigirl]

36. LOL

[melody]

4. Edwards beat Clinton with a fraction of the money. If any of the three are out, it's not Edwards nt

[lastliberalintexas]

5. Neither is

They both probably have the money, profile and clout to hang in at least through Super Tuesday. AS does Obama if he somehow stumbles a little in NH or SC. It will be a 3 way race for some time to come.

[kurth]

6. Opening minutes in the first quarter

[onehandle]

7. There have been no primaries yet.

And often, the winner in Iowa doesn't go on to be the nominee.

Nice try.

[Joe the Revelator]

8. I think Edwards is certainly done, and Hillary is now on a bit of life support

Hillary HAS to win NH or she'll continue to bleed untill she loses Super Tuesday.

[Colobo]

10. Exactly; Hillary has been knocked down. She needs to get up quick

and hurt Obama or he'll KO her.

[BenDavid]

22. tell me other then illinois where obama is going to win-feb 5

Alabama 60 Primary
Alaska 18 Caucus
Arizona 67 Primary
Arkansas 47 Primary
California 441 Primary
Colorado 71 Caucus
Connecticut 60 Primary
Delaware 23 Primary
Georgia 103 Primary
Idaho 23 Caucus
Illinois 185 Primary
Kansas 41 Caucus
Massachusetts 121 Primary
Minnesota 88 Caucus
Missouri 88 Primary
New Jersey 127 Primary
New Mexico 38 Caucus
New York 281 Primary
North Dakota 21 Caucus
Oklahoma 47 Primary
Tennessee 85 Primary
Utah 29 Primary

Okay lets go with your premise HRC wins N.H.....Now we go to S.C. and that is a toss up. Okay so Obama wins S.C. now go back to the list and tell me other then Illinois where Obama can win? Once you start counting out the clintons you have just done yourself a disservice. Never count out a clinton.

Ben David

Ben David

[Joe the Revelator]

28. There is no reason he can't win all of those states. Why wouldn't he?

Obama is being framed by a winner, and Hillary as a loser. The meme now is "The Torch has been passed". His bump will carry him through NH, SC, and NV.By that point Hillary becomes an afterthought in this race.

[loveangelc]

32. he could win a lot of those

because HRC will lose in NH and SC. 3 losses in a row???? She looks weak. WEAK. We say goodbye to inevitability, a huge point of her campaign pretty much. So what does she run on, Bill Clinton? The fact is most Dems don't like her, adn the only reason she's been up this much nationally is because Hillary has name recognition and an air of inevitability which has now been destroyed and I think will continue to be. A month from now things could look a lot different than they did yesterday nationally.

[Tom Rinaldo]

57. I agree with your subject line, but not the follow up text

Winning NH would cure most all that currently ails her, but while Hillary can't afford a distant second placer finish in New Hampshire, if she comes in a reasonably close second she still potentially has time to turn it around. Nevada would then become critical for her. If she won Nevada, even if she finished a close second to Obama in SC, she would still have a chance on Super Tuesday.

[ashling]

9. I'm hoping for Edwards/Dodd

its not over by a long shot

[man4allcats]

11. I wouldn't be surprised to see Edwards rally,

but I doubt that Hillary will.

[jgraz]

12. Hillary was hurt a lot more than Edwards

Not only did she place third, but she lost among women and independents. Add in the fact that only 20% of caucus-goers thought experience was important and you have her entire campaign strategy in shambles.

[PurityOfEssence]

45. She will get some derisive press, and he will finally get some.

The story is going to be Obama, and the secondary story is going to be Hillary; in many news stories, Edwards isn't even mentioned. (I'm listening to the BBC on NPR right now, and "third" is not mentioned, nor is JRE by name in the opening story.) Still, he gets SOME press, which is better than it has been.

The dangerous fact is that New Hampshire is in 5 days, and it's a very conservative state by New England standards. This is followed by South Carolina, where both Clinton and Obama both have great support.

[Jim Sagle]

13. Obama has no chance. None.

[Colobo]

21. You're in denial.

[Jim Sagle]

33. Riiiiiiiight.

[AshevilleGuy]

47. Obama can get the nomination, but

win the general election?? As you say, no chance. None. The republik's smear machine will tear him to pieces.

And that is why this is a bad night for us Dems.

[snowbear]

50. You give the THUGS too much credit..

If you don't think the Democratic Party hasn't learned a few tricks since the swiftboat liars, you haven't been paying attention.

Senator Obama has a superb chance of winning. You, and a handful of others here are in DENIAL.

[FlyingSquirrel]

14. Well, let's see. Most recent poll numbers in New Hampshire:

Clinton 32% Obama 28% Edwards 19%, Franklin Pierce - Dec 27-31
Clinton 31% Obama 27% Edwards 21%, ARG - Dec 27-29
Clinton 34% Obama 30% Edwards 17%, CNN/Univ NH - Dec 27-30


What do you think, is it over?

[SaveElmer]

37. Think you forgot one...

Suffolk/WHDH New Hampshire poll: Clinton 39%, Obama 23%, Edwards 17%, Richardson 5%

And I think it goes without mentioning that tonights result is going to elevate Obama further...

[snowbear]

53. LOL !!!

You guys are reciting polls pre-Iowa.

OMFG....

She didn't just lose ---- as David Gergan just said, she got rolled by Obama.

[begin_within]

43. .

[mmonk]

15. No.

[2rth2pwr]

16. My take is that since Edwards has been in Iowa since 2004

his showing has to be a sign that the end is near. Hillary was hurt by some side dealing with Kucinich and other candidates for Obama
and she will start winning in NH and nobody will even remember this stubbed toe.

[avrdream]

35. And some side dealing by Republicans, don't forget.

Race isn't even close to over.

[Auntie Bush]

42. I hope you are right and I can go to bed happier and more confident

after reading your post.

[snowbear]

58. More happy and confident......

.
.

.....that we now actually have an excellent chance of winning the WH !!!



Sleep tight!

[donheld]

17. If Hillary and John are done, should we cancel the rest of the primaries?

:shrug: how insane.

[tigereye]

18. no, one state does not constitute an entire primary process

[dailykoff]

24. It turned out to be in 2004

and Obama did even better than Kerry. I'm expecting a pretty identical replay.

[harmonicon]

19. is the next debate the top four finishers from tonight?

I thought I'd heard that (well, only five are left in the race anyway, if reports I've seen are accurate). If so, I can even see it becoming a 4-way race. Sure, Richardson had a much smaller percentage than the big three, but some of Obama's margin likely came from deals with BR and DK. I wouldn't count any of them out yet. Yes, I know it's not likely that Kucinich or Richardson will win the nod, but they aren't out for the count yet. Still completely up in the air.

[Ravy]

20. Two things....

Independents in Iowa came out for Barak. Independents in NH may think that Barak has the momentum that their vote could best be cast for McCain to knock Romney for a loop.

Also, there is a debate between now and NH, and debates have not been the place that Obama has excelled, by most accounts.

I am just anxious for us to have a nominee decided so we can start focusing on republicans and the harm they have done to our country. Edwards is still my choice, but if Obama really shows that he can steamroll from here, then it is Go Barak! Go!

I don't think he will, but if he does I am prepared to be happily surprised.

[Catherine Vincent]

No.

This is only one state, newbie.

[musicblind]

30. thanx

I hope that you are right. Though I'm not THAT new, even though I'm young I've been following politics since I was 16. I would prefer Edwards/Clinton or Clinton/Edwards. Again, nothing wrong with Obama either, just mere preference. I'd like to see them at least have sooooome chance to come back.

However, in reality, i fear that it may be over for both of them. :(

[dailykoff]

23. Yes, but I'm expecting a long death rattle

from the Clintons, who refuse to go away.

[Bullet1987]

29. It's too early to count either of them out...but it's not looking too good

Let me put it in football terms. Obama has scored two BIG touchdowns in the 1st quarter. Edwards has thrown an interception and Clinton has fumbled the ball. At this point, with Obama being 14 points ahead this early, Edwards and Clinton NEED a turnover to put them back in the game...or Obama will ride his lead into the 4th quarter and mount a score (NH, SC, Nevada) that's too hard to make up.

[dailykoff]

31. That's good, but there's also the quality of the candidates.

and the momentum. Obama mopped the floor with both of them and IMHO he deserved to.

[Jim Sagle]

49. This isn't football, and Obama isn't a Democrat. He's going nowhere.

[Yukari Yakumo]

25. Edwards, yes. Hill, not yet

While JRE spent less money in Iowa, he spent way more time in Iowa. Lemme me show you somethin'

Zogby - 26 March 2007 - John Edwards 27%, Hillary Clinton 25%, Barack Obama 23%, Bill Richardson 3%, Joseph Biden 3%, Dennis Kucinich 1%, Christopher Dodd 1%, Not Sure 15%

Iowa is one of only two states that has ever showed Edwards consistently in the lead (the other being NC). To think he will miraculously turn virtually every state around to his corner based upon a vote that was a Obama Victory in Iowa is idiotic at the very least. Edwards needed a win in Iowa, and he didn't get that. He is done.

HRC... don't count her out. Not until at least SupTues.

[unc70]

39. Edwards in Iowa less than Obama, Biden n/t

[youthere]

26. If Hillary doesn't win NH I'd say she's finished.

And I would echo what others said upthread about Edwards. He was better known in Iowa than anyone else so it's unlikely he'll go on to win. Last time he picked up all his momentum from Iowa. AND Edwards put his all his eggs in Iowa.

[killbotfactory]

27. Nope

It ain't over yet.

But it's looking pretty good for Obama right now.

[ZinZen]

34. As an Obama supporter

we still have a few more states to go. Hillary is not through yet, nor is Edwards.

[Beacool]

38. Some of you are too funny!!

Obama wins in a state that has not been a an absolute predictor of future presidents and his supporters are already questioning whether Hillary is finished?????

A little reminder, Bill didn't even caucus in IA and came second in NH.

Of course it's a disappointment to come in third place, but finished???

Far from it..........

[Didereaux]

40. heheh, they're kids, and kids need to fantasize a bit to fill in where they have not seen reality.

[Beacool]

52. Yep, they have the arrogance of extreme youth.

Since I'm Obama's age, I see right through his slick rhetoric. Where's the beef? Too much fluff (sorry, "inspiration") and too little substance.

[bigwillq]

41. No

49 states to go.

[begin_within]

44. One week in politics = a lifetime in "real time"

Wasn't it that long ago when Hillary was considered inevitable?

[WA98296]

46. Edwards CAN get the nomination. I hope he does.

[Seabiscuit]

48. Clinton took a tumble. Edwards sprang into 2nd place.

The momentum is all with Edwards. His poll numbers were in the teens in Iowa a few months ago. Back then, Obama was just beginning to nip at Hillary's high heels.

[AtomicKitten]

51. I'm encouraged by the point spread.

[Imagevision]

54. A lot of peeps are still clueless on Obama, some need to see the masses move before they do.

[incapsulated]

55. No, no, no.

This is all hysteria. Happens every year.

I'm so sick of Iowa and their bullshit vote trading excuse for a non-primary, they shouldn't matter.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

56. Let's see a few more primaries first

Both Hillary and Edwards are close enough that they could win some.

The winner of Iowa does not necessarily get the nomination. In fact, no one paid any attention to the Iowa caucuses at all till 1988. Nobody among the general public even knew that Iowa had caucuses, and all the attention was focused on New Hampshire.

This changed in 1988 when someone noticed that Pat Robertson had placed second in the Iowa caucuses. This took everyone so much by surprise that one never heard the end of it. Always ready to find something new to cover, the MSM have hyped the Iowa caucuses since then.

But when I was growing up, it was the New Hampshire primary that was considered the first real contest.

[Egnever]

59. Finished?

Not at all. I think Edwards will need a lot to go his way for him to come out with the nod. Hillary's machine is unmistakable. They aren't giving up easily. She can go the distance with just her ground operation thats set up already more than likely.

Obama followed the win with an incredible speech, I do think he will see a significant bounce.

[Chasing Dreams]

60. They are both goners

As I said elsewhere, I really like Edwards and wish he had a chance, but with this victory tonight Obama is unstoppable.

Obama is channeling MLK, RFK, and Abraham Lincoln. He's the best speaker the Democrats have ever had.

Stick a fork in monotone Clinton. Ditto for the great John Edwards. He's just happens to be second best in the greatest Democratic candidate field ever assembled.

[ShadowLiberal]

61. Unless Obama & Clinton really screw up soon then yeah Edwards is finished

Right now I don't see how Edwards could win the nomination. I mean if Edwards gains some momentum and beats Clinton in New Hampshire (while losing the Obama realistically) the media may hype up Edwards growing and Hillary being toast, but the fact will be that Obama will have won two clear victories in a row, and will be extremely difficult to unseat, especially with South Carolina being the next major nomination contest, where half the democrats voting will be black.

The only way I could possibly see Edwards winning is both Hillary and Obama screwing up really bad, and I mean REALLY bad to the point that they suddenly look unelectable or something. I mean even if Hillary can beat Obama in New Hampshire (thus crushing Obama's momentum) then the momentum will only go back to Hillary, and not to Edwards. And last I remember checking South Carolina polling Edwards loses pretty badly to both Obama and Hillary, so it doesn't matter which of them is the front runner, Edwards can't win either way.

[JPettus]

62. Not that big a deal.

Always nice to win 'em all but it's not the one who wins Iowa who always wins the nomination.

[ThePhilosopher04]

63. Clinton's done...Edwards will beat Obama...

nm

[K8-EEE]

64. Edwards had a nice showing. He came UP to 2nd. She went down from lead..

Obviously he came UP to second and Hillary DOWN to third. And he had a lot less money...she spent a ton and still came in third, so put a fork in her.

[Yukari Yakumo]

69. You do know Edwards was leading til about June or July? {nt}

uguu

[AshevilleGuy]

65. If they are, we are screwed in the general election! n/t

[jcla]

66. Clinton is injured... Edwards less that slightly bruised.

We have a long way to go to the nomination.... anything can happen... but I have never thought that Hillery was electable especially after the repukes got finished with her health care program during Bill's administration. After Iowa many people see her as passing the torch not receiving it.

[musicblind]

67. Kerry and Dean ...

It just seemed very frightening after what happened to Kerry and Dean last year.

[THUNDER HANDS]

68. i said months ago whoever wins iowa wins the nomination

and I'd be lying if I said I thought differently now.

[Rockholm]

70. Neither of them are finished.

Obama WILL be the Howard Dean of 2008. Mark my words. Hey, I may even start a new thread on this.

[laureloak]

71. Strangers showing up at Iowa caucus to throw the vote.

That's the only reason BO won. So, hell no, Edwards and Clinton are far from finished.