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Why I'm Not Voting for Obama: A Liberal's Gut Check

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DemKR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-31-07 06:55 PM
Original message
Why I'm Not Voting for Obama: A Liberal's Gut Check
An EXCELLENT READ from
MyDD:
by arkansasdemocrat, Mon Dec 31, 2007 at 12:17:03 AM EST

For months, I have been alarmed at the vitriol leveled against Democrats who aren't supporting Barack Obama on this and other blogs. I have been as snarky as anyone else, but as the Iowa vote nears I feel somewhat compelled to lay out in a dispassionate way why I am not voting for Obama, and I hope that it might even change a few minds among other members of this community.

1. Iraq / Opportunism

Obama has been as cynical as anyone else on Iraq. We have all heard, ad nauseum, ad infinitum during the year that Barack Obama opposed the war in Iraq from the beginning, thus proving that he possesses judgement that Clinton, Edwards, Dodd, and Biden lack. However, let's look at a few Obama quotes from before the campaign:


...when asked by the New York Times in July 2004 how he would have voted in 2002, he said, "What would I have done? I don't know."
Source:http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/20 07/04/when-it-comes-to-his.php


I think what people might point to is our different assessments of the war in Iraq, although I'm always careful to say that I was not in the Senate, so perhaps the reason I thought it was such a bad idea was that I didn't have the benefit of U.S. intelligence. And, for those who did, it might have led to a different set of choices.
Source:http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2006/

Clearly, this is a Barack Obama that is divorced in some way from his rhetoric of 2007- constantly chastising his fellow candidates for their vote. I find this kind of contrived digust on the part of Obama pure political opportunism. It is repugnant. Obama wasn't in the Senate in 2002, we don't know how he would have voted, and apparently, neither does he.

I want as my President someone who has the intellectual consistency to carry a thought from non-campaign year to campaign year without flip-flopping on issues of core importance. He is playing on the emotions of Democrats without providing an honest accounting of his opinions.

2. Those Pesky "Present" Votes

I am aware that as often as not, these votes were a part of a strategy to protect vulnerable Democrats, but not always.

A few examples:


In 1999, Obama voted "present" on SB 759, a bill that required mandatory adult prosecution for firing a gun on or near school grounds. The bill passed the state Senate 52-1. Also in 1999, Obama voted "present" on HB 854 that protected the privacy of sex-abuse victims by allowing petitions to have the trial records sealed. He was the only member to not support the bill.
Source: http://www.opinionjournal.com/federation feature?id=110009664

Why, you might ask, did Obama oppose these measures? Because he was about to oppose Bobby Rush in Chicago for a House seat, and apparently these bills weren't as popular in that district as they were with every one of his Illinois Senate colleagues. Again, this is pure political opportunism. But don't take my word for it:


An examination of Illinois records shows at least 36 times when Obama was either the only state senator to vote present or was part of a group of six or fewer to vote that way..."If you are worried about your next election, the present vote gives you political cover," said Kent Redfield, a professor of political studies at the University of Illinois at Springfield.
Source: http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/12/20/a merica/20obama.php

What a gutless approach to being a legislator! This is not Presidential quality behavior, in my book.

3. Health Care

I'm one of the lucky ones. I have health care insurance, but I am concerned about those who don't. In a vacuum, Barack Obama certainly shares this concern. But his plan falls about 15 million people short of solving the problem. When confronted with this fact, Obama could have admitted it and moved on. Instead, he went on the attack- from the right. Our "liberal" choice in this primary chose to borrow from Harry and Louise (circa 1993) and bash mandated coverage. Mandates sound worse than they are, and I am sure that if enacted roughly 6 people somewhere without health insurance will be incensed. But, as of now, almost every serious health care expert agrees that it's the only way. And, as Paul Krugman argues:


But lately Mr. Obama has been stressing his differences with his rivals by attacking their plans from the right - which means that he has been giving credence to false talking points that will be used against any Democratic health care plan a couple of years from now.
Source: http://www.truthout.org/issues_06/120707 HA.shtml

I agree with Krugman. Rhetoric like Obama's could shut the door of access to health care for the uninsured for another decade. That is irresponsible, and it dimishes my estimation of Obama.

4. Social Security

My criticism of Obama here is nearly the same as on health care. He is furthering a crisis mentality on Social Security, which is currently solvent. It's not in great shape but is not facing the same crisis situation as, for example, Medicare. What does Sen. Obama propose?

A tax hike that would purportedly


...raise more than $1 trillion over 10 years.
Source:http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Story?id= 3638710&page=1

That proposal, coupled with Obama's outright mocking of Sen. Clinton's more modest proposal in the Vegas debate, smacks of a crisis situation. Where does that lead? Well, if Obama is the nominee it means the following: 1. he is going to be hit hard from the right in the general about his Social Security tax hike. ($1 trillion!) That is not going to play well among swing voters, I imagine. 2. It gives a potential Republican president increased currency to go the privatization route. After all- Social Security is in crisis, right?

5. An Ugly Campaign

We've heard alot about Bill Shaheen and Bob Kerrey, but Obama has gotten a pass on his abhorrent campaign from the mainstream media.

*Axelrod's comments linking Clinton to the Bhutto assassination were heartless and irrational.

*Obama's "tea party" comments on Friday might not have been sexism, but it was close enough to make a lot of people, including this male very uncomfortable.

*The (D-Punjab) incident last spring was an absolute embarrassment to our party.

*His constant diatribe against his opponents as insiders who are part of a broken system is offensive. I am exhausted with politicians that disingenuously debase public service. John Edwards has been fighting for the poor for a decade. Hillary Clinton has been actively working for three decades on women and childrens' issues and for the last six on defense and foreign policy. Joe Biden probably saved Roe v. Wade by leading the fight against Bork. Etc. etc. These are good people, who deserve better from a neophyte opponent than having their judgement and dedication to our issues questioned.

6. Electability...That Old Hat

I have made this point several times on this blog, and others as well. Barack Obama is at his apex right now. He is an unknown quantity with loads of room for definitiion by the GOP filth machine. They are better at this than we are. If he is the nominee, by the time they get done with them we could very well be the victims of a landslide, not in our direction.

He's given them plenty of material. Between the proposed $1 trillion tax hike and his willingness to meet with "rogue" leaders as President of the United States and his weird comments about Pakistan last summer, there is already a lot of material for them to work with. Couple that with direct mail and 527 spending about past drug use (I'm sorry...it's out there) not to mention some of those present votes, and that's the election. (That "present" vote on trying people who fire weapons on school grounds as adults alone is a gift to the GOP.)

Believe me- Hillary Clinton and John Edwards have been downright polite to Obama compared to the Republicans. Rhetoric about "hope" and "a different kind of politics" won't cut it.

At the beginning of the campaign, I was enthusiastic about Obama. In the year since his campaign began I have become alarmed at the prospect of him as our nominee. He could still win Iowa, New Hampshire, and the nomination, but I doubt he'll be elected President.

We are lucky enough to have candidates in the race who don't leave room for definition, who ooze competence, and have been more courageous throughout their public careers. I recommend that we avail ourselves of one of those public servants and revisit Obama in eight years.

http://www.mydd.com/story/2007/12/31/0173/3785
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quinnox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-31-07 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
1. very good analysis
At this point Obama is really damaged goods, even though I can't stand Edwards and think he is the phoniest one of the bunch I know Edwards would at least have a shot at winning the election, Obama would be almost dead in the water to start with.
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durrrty libby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-31-07 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. I agree, JE is a phony ........and Obama is just pretty bubbles
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AmBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-31-07 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #4
27. Sorry, but Edwards is NOT a phony.
Based on what do you say this? Your opinion only? Iowans are smart people and if that were true they would smell it and he wouldn't be taking the lead there by spending the least amount of money and tv airtime. The man has substance and class and is relentlessly dedicated to giving this country back to The People.



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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-31-07 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
2. The List of LIES
because they can't beat Obama with the truth.
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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-31-07 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Refute them point by point?
Or just toss a stink bomb and run and hide?
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-31-07 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. They've been refuted, he just posts a new thread n/t
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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-31-07 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. I see nothing refuted
Edited on Mon Dec-31-07 07:15 PM by niceypoo
But I do enjoy watching the thread author making the Hillary haters cringe at the mirror image of their own tactics
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-31-07 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Then you must only read his threads
In 2004, Obama was supporting the Dem candidate and platform on Iraq, which Hillary helped craft. She's the one who was spouting "stay the course".

The present votes were worked out with political operatives in Illinois.

The only way you can make the 15 million claim is if you ignore the fact that mandates never guarantee anything, see auto insurance.

Obama said the crisis was with Medicare, just as the writer says, but it was twisted and continues to be twisted.

Axelrod never said Hillary was responsible for Bhutto's death, that was a lie. Hillary does have notorious Indian ties. And the tea thing is just stupid.

You seriously missed all of this?? What have you been paying attention to?
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maximusveritas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-01-08 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #13
34. I notice no one has bothered refuting your refutation
or mine.
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maximusveritas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-31-07 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #6
23. Here you go
1. Obama was defending the pro-war votes of our Presidential nominees in order to help defeat Bush. To attack him for this by twisting his words is repugnant. He's always been against the war. Also, his comments about not seeing the intelligence is mute because we now know Hillary didn't bother looking at the full intelligence even though she had access to it.

2. The present votes were very common in Illinois. They signaled that you were opposed to the bill because it was unconstitutional or did not do what it promised to do. To say this was an example of him not taking a stand shows an ignorance of what present votes are.

3. There's nothing wrong with Obama attacking health care mandates. Plenty of liberals agree with him on that. Even Krugman has come around on his idea of imposing a penalty for those who wait until they get sick to get insurance.

4. On Social Security, Obama has the more progressive position of raising the cap, which Hillary opposes. So what if he called it a crisis once. So did Edwards. What's more important is their policy positions and on that Edwards and Obama have the advantage.

5. A Hillary suporter complaining about an ugly campaign. Seriously? Because Axelrod brought up Hillary's lack of judgement? But it's ok for her and Bayh to talk about her superior experience in relation the assassination? His comment about having tea was a harmless comment that the Hillary campaign jumped upon in an ugly way, calling him sexist. Could you imagine if Obama's campaign accused anyone of being racist for something so benign? They wouldn't hear the end of it. As far as the D-Punjab thing, I'm Indian and had no problem with it. It was Hillary herself who first referred to herself as that. Hardly anyone mentions that of course.

6. Obama's been tested in this campaign and has better numbers in head-to-head matchups than Hillary. They'll run dishonest attacks against anyone, so this is not special for Obama. He's just as electable as the other candidates.

That was easy.
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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-01-08 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #23
39. Question about the present votes...
2. The present votes were very common in Illinois. They signaled that you were opposed to the bill because it was unconstitutional or did not do what it promised to do. To say this was an example of him not taking a stand shows an ignorance of what present votes are.

Why does he oppose SB 759 (don't shoot your gun on school property) and HB 854 (don't tell the names of rape victims)?

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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-01-08 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #2
38. Absolutely
I make a point about it in a post below.

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LaurenG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-31-07 07:07 PM
Response to Original message
3. None of them are perfect
There are some negative things that we all know about all the candidates, your's included.

I will vote my conscience as well and accept the democratic president, whoever they are.


Happy new year to you!
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sellitman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-31-07 07:07 PM
Response to Original message
5. Could you please
Could you please put as much effort and work as you did with this piece into a positive piece on who you plan on voting for instead?

It would be refreshing.
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DisgustipatedinCA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-31-07 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. DemKR didn't write this
Notice it's a "liberal's gut-check" (whatever the hell a gut check is). DemKR is clearly on Hillary's side, and therefore by definition, not much of a liberal. The only people who consider Clinton a liberal are right-wingers. And I'll just leave it there.
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Caseman Donating Member (171 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-31-07 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. It's funny. The Edwards supporters are becoming more annoying than the Hillary supporters.
Sad.
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sellitman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-31-07 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #8
26. At 70 posts you ain't seen nothing yet.
Promice
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Caseman Donating Member (171 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-01-08 01:32 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. I'm guessing you misspelled 'Promise' on purpose to annoy me...
...'cause it worked x(
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sellitman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-01-08 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. You will never last here.
If a mis-spelled word bothers you.

now what I meen?


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Tejanocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-31-07 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
11. Here are the top 5 reasons why I prefer Kucinich over Obama:
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-31-07 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #11
19. 5 damn good reasons, Tejanocrat
:thumbsup:
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loveangelc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-31-07 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
12. why the hell are you so obsessed with Obama?
Edited on Mon Dec-31-07 07:17 PM by loveangelc
Like I said in another thread, if you spent as much time helping Hillary as you do sitting on your ass seemingly all the time, in front of your computer, making thread after thread about why Obama is bad, then maybe Hillary would be well ahead of her competitors.
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DemKR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-31-07 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. excuse me do not tell me whether i am liberal or not.I am a proud progressive
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loveangelc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-31-07 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. um. right. because what I just said had to do with whether or not you're progressive.
Edited on Mon Dec-31-07 07:27 PM by loveangelc
Wtf are you TALKING about? I said if you actually did something for your candidate to help her win Iowa in place of making endless thread after thread about Obama, she could be on top in Iowa and there would be no need to attack your opponents endlessly because they would be irrelevant.

are you already drinking? Is it fucking up your reading comprehension?
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DemKR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-31-07 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. I responded to the wrong post. Sorry n/t
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-31-07 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #12
20. Obama supporters do the same thing.
Even more. I'm just laughing because they're getting it back for a change.
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DemKR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-31-07 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. :-)
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-31-07 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
16. Obama's Ugly Campaign
Edited on Mon Dec-31-07 07:27 PM by MethuenProgressive
5. An Ugly Campaign

We've heard alot about Bill Shaheen and Bob Kerrey, but Obama has gotten a pass on his abhorrent campaign from the mainstream media.

*Axelrod's comments linking Clinton to the Bhutto assassination were heartless and irrational.

*Obama's "tea party" comments on Friday might not have been sexism, but it was close enough to make a lot of people, including this male very uncomfortable.

*The (D-Punjab) incident last spring was an absolute embarrassment to our party.

*His constant diatribe against his opponents as insiders who are part of a broken system is offensive. I am exhausted with politicians that disingenuously debase public service. John Edwards has been fighting for the poor for a decade. Hillary Clinton has been actively working for three decades on women and childrens' issues and for the last six on defense and foreign policy. Joe Biden probably saved Roe v. Wade by leading the fight against Bork. Etc. etc. These are good people, who deserve better from a neophyte opponent than having their judgement and dedication to our issues questioned.

:toast:
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DemKR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-31-07 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. ding ding ding
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-31-07 07:35 PM
Response to Original message
21. "apparently these bills weren't as popular in that district" - fucked up and racist remark
Edited on Mon Dec-31-07 07:36 PM by LoZoccolo
What indication does the author of this article have that this is why he voted the way he did, or that the people in his predominantly black district didn't generally support the bill?
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-31-07 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
24. Thank you "Arkansasdemocrat"!!!!!!!!!
Maybe it's because I'm Obama's age and can see right through him, but to me he's as slick as an oil spill and as smooth as a used car salesman. In other words, too much charisma and too little substance.
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-31-07 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
25. Voting "present" means he opposed a bill?
The author is either biased or just plain stupid.
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LeFleur1 Donating Member (973 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-01-08 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #25
36. Yeah...
I can't figure out that voting present on a bill thing. If he was opposed why not vote NO? Why not?
It could have been that the word escaped him when it was time to vote.
It could have been that he'd rather use a two syllable word than a one syllable word.
It could have been that he didn't want to have to defend his vote in another future election.
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laugle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 02:45 AM
Response to Reply #36
44. He likes to leave things
ambiguous.....that's his pattern. Then he is not on the record as a "yes" or "no," and then he can go out and slam the other candidates for voting yes. That does not bode well for the office of the presidency........it's too vague and too safe and shows a lack of leadership........
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indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-01-08 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
30. Awesome post ...SPOT ON!
Edited on Tue Jan-01-08 09:39 AM by indimuse
:eyes: I post a couple snippets like this: .."If you are worried about your next election, the present vote gives you political cover," said Kent Redfield, a professor of political studies at the University of Illinois at Springfield. AND THIS:By Alexander Bolton and Brittney Moraski
December 20, 2007
Three political aides on Sen. Barack Obama’s (D-Ill.) payroll were registered lobbyists for dozens of corporations, including Wal-Mart(((I think Michelle receives Money from!!!!)), British Petroleum and Lockheed

Martin, while they received payments from his campaign, according to public documents.

The presence of political operatives with long client lists on Obama’s campaign contrasts with his long-held stand of campaigning against the influence of special

interests. Obama has even refused to accept contributions from lobbyists or political action committees (PACs).

Obama was using PAC money secretly to pay- YES PAY other members of congress who would endorse him. For all those "feelings voters" - this meant quid pro quo

i.e. I'll contribute to your future election if you endorse me. Please review Obama's statements about not taking any PAC money. This was a direct contradiction to the

fact, let alone using it to push monies to other candidates who ONLY chose to endorse him.

Now what did the media do? Zip nada no word... no traction. WHY? Because it was not Hillary who did this., rather lord knows if the Hillary machine had done it, one

would have every writer, journalist, blogger going" SEE SHE IS TRYING BUY HER WAY IN!!"WHAT AUDACITY.

I was attacked by every ObamaRomney lover out there! INFLATE what you want Obama....The truth will be heard.
Anyone familiar with La Junta..and Michelle Obama's money making deal that cost over 150 JOB LOSSES! Look it UP..Interesting video interviews...


Opportunist! Exploiting the EMOTIONAL VOTE! shame..
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DemKR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-01-08 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #30
32. thank you n/t
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laugle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 02:54 AM
Response to Reply #30
46. Geez......he's starting to sound
like the "flim/flam man" and this is who people are pinning their hopes and dreams on.........I sure hope people take off the blinders soon.....I just don't see why people trust him at all, we really don't know much about him, only what he wants us to see.........way too much of a risk with the stakes so high.
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I was just saying... Donating Member (62 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-01-08 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
31. Great post! As I've stated before...
Obama is a Calculating Coward, his 'Hype of Hope' campaign is being eaten up by
the kumbaya crowd. All young, all naive, with wonderlust for the new kid. They
give Obama a pass because he's cool, or its 'cool' to be for Obama.
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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-01-08 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
33. Nice analysis.
I agree with the OP on all points. #3 (health care), #4 (social security), and #6 (electability) are very serious concerns for me. I'll vote for Obama in the general if he's the nominee, but I prefer John Edwards as the most electable liberal available.

:dem:

-Laelth
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-01-08 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
35. Comparing to Hillary's recent Bush endorsement to attack Iran there
are other things to be considered. Hillary it appears would think nothing of 'sacrificing' more deaths to ensure we fight them over there in stead of here scenario... (poppycock, just get the bloody oil)
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-01-08 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
37. The Greatest Hits of Clinton Campaign Lies and Half-Truths all in one handy guide
Edited on Tue Jan-01-08 12:23 PM by zulchzulu
Let's see.

Taking Obama's quote out of context in the Times article about Iraq and leaving out the critical ending. That was from Bill Clinton. The Clintons can't get their story straight on how they felt about the Iraq War, which Hillary is complicit in helping give Bush a free pass to attack that country.

Then there's the absolute ignorance and/or misunderstanding of basic Senatorial procedures with the "present" vote. Oddly, the "present" vote, a complete surprise to many Clinton fans, is used all the time in state legislatures to stop poison-pill legislation and make better laws. Then when you figure that Obama used the "present" vote a little over 3% of the time while state senator, you wonder why it's even an issue.

On the issue of individual mandates with healthcare insurance, we all have to twiddle our thumbs and wait for Hillary to bestow us a panel of healthcare insurance lobbyists to tell us just how she wants to force healthcare insurance (not reform) down American throats. Funny, but that strategy failed the first time Hillary tried to do the same ill-begotten shot into the mist.

As for dirty campaigning, Hillary set new lows in scum-sucking smashmouth politics. Who would have thought that one campaign would attack another candidate's kindergarden paper as an issue? It was unprecedented...a new low in American politics. There's much more, but that benchmark is a classic example of the Hillaryworld strategy.

Nobody is more unelectable than Hillary Clinton. No two people are utterly without question a scab on the Democratic Party than the Clintons. No two people are more hated by the GOP and would empower their base to get out and vote against not only them but all the other Democrats running than the Clintons. Their negative coat tails would make Democrats lose the House and the Senate as well as not get in the White House. When nearly half the country already says they won't vote for Hillary, you have a pretty big political problem.

We've seen them in the '90s and were embarassed by their relationship; we saw NAFTA, DOMA, the Telecommunications Act, China free trade deals, Monicagate and all the other scandals the Clintons shoved down our throats... we believed them at first until they felt our pain and inflicted their usual triangulated games. If you ever needed a photo to complete a poster with the words "You Had Your Chance", it's the Clintons waving at the camera.

There are many of us who will be glad to see them move to Punjab, where Hillary Clinton once said at a 2006 fundraiser hosted by a prominent Indian lobbyist who she supports outsourcing "as a reality" that "I can certainly run for the Senate seat in Punjab and win easily."

Hillary's cackle was used as a "strategy" one weekend on several news shows and when it looked like she's a calculating phony, that cackle oddly went away. She has varied her suggestion that her husband would be an important part of her presidency combined with that he wouldn't be a part.

The only "change" we get from a Clinton nomination is the possibility to change from Bush to Clinton to Bush to... Clinton. The only "experience" we get from Hillary is trying to steal and lie about her husband's resume and use it as her own.

If you don't drink the soiled Clinton Koolaid, you're called a "hater", a "sexist", a "misogynist", a "Republican"... those are the whimpers of people out of ammo and not wanting to engage in what many think are better alternatives for the future of this country.

I'll start a separate thread with all the Greatest Hits of Lies by the Clintons. Stay tuned.



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Infinite Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-01-08 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
40. My biggest concern is his weak approach to alternative energy.
He's of the Senator Dorgan variety who put more into Ethanol (which is a fallacy, not only lacking benefit, but lacking the ability to even exist on a mass scale) and other such "alternative" fuels than true alternatives which lay in renewables. I've attended hearings on environmental matters where Obama is present and his words raised concerns for me back in the fall months of 2005. That's when I initially was turned off by Obama.
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avaistheone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 02:57 AM
Response to Reply #40
47. Agreed, Obama is weak on alternative energy
There was an article on HuffPo about how Obama was pushing some kind of coal fuel that is reprocessed, and then winds up producing more green house gases.

You think Obama could have got an issue as important as this one more together before running for office. I think his campaign is just something that was thrown together at the last minute - and it shows.
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Czolgosz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 01:57 AM
Response to Original message
41. excellent
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 02:04 AM
Response to Original message
42. Boy, "arkansasdem" must not have spent as much time as he/she said trying to encourage
others to support Obama before he/she had such a stunning change of heart. Why, what I'm reading here looks like TPMs from the Hillary Campaign. But I'm sure he/she is sincere.. and really didn't invest all that time into Obama just to turn around at the last minute and Hillarize him. Right.
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laugle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 02:29 AM
Response to Original message
43. Excellent analysis.....
I see a pattern of political calculations and a clear lack of leadership qualities. This in addition to lack of national and foreign policy experience, shows he is not ready to take on the huge and dangerous challenges we will be facing in the coming years.

People need to vote with their head and not their heart. A sense of idealism that Obama will magically fix most of our problems is a dream not a reality................

I just can't imagine Obama dealing with the situation in Pakistan, stabilizing Iraq and ending the war; finding a peaceful solution to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict; dealing with Iran, just to name a few........CAN YOU??????
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Lucinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 02:54 AM
Response to Original message
45. Thanks!
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laugle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 11:00 PM
Response to Original message
48. Excellent analysis!
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Czolgosz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-03-08 09:42 AM
Response to Original message
49. kick
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